View Full Version : [3.5] Expanding On UA's Generic Classes...

2009-12-03, 06:57 PM
This isn't quite in line with what Baron Corm is doing with his Generic Class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616), before you ask.

Unearthed Arcana had an entry concerning Generic Classses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm). I've liked the idea ever since I've come across it, and I feel like it deserves to be expanded upon. I think it would be neat to see more "class features" available for selection as bonus feats, and I think it'd be good to introduce more variety to the system.

Things that I would like to see added are a generic Psion and a generic "Initiator," a character who uses maneuvers from the Tome of Battle.

It seems to me like the expert could use a "little more." I'm also going to boost the warrior to see if he's worth keeping alongside the "Initiator."

Spellcaster and Psion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7432621&postcount=3) both get a d4 as their HD.
2+Int Skill points a level. (x4 at first)
One good save.
Poor BAB.
(5 feats, same progression)

Expert gets a d8 as its HD.
8+Int skill points a level. (x4 at first)
All good saves.
Medium BAB.
(7 feats, same progression)

"Initiator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7443513&postcount=8)" gets a d10 as its HD.
4+Int Skill points a level. (x4 at first)
One good save.
Good BAB.
(6 feats, plus a Capstone Feat)

Warrior gets a d12 as its HD.
4+Int Skill points a level. (x4 at first)
Two good saves.
Good BAB.
(11 feats, same progression)

The Spellcaster always has arcane casting, regardless of what attribute he casts off of (Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma). For the sake of qualifying for prestige classes, he may consider his spellcasting divine, but cannot cast in armor as if his casting was divine.

Regular Feats:
Naturally, these can be selected as class bonus feats.
Armored Mage (Light): Cast with Light Armor and/or a Buckler without ASF.
->Armored Mage (Medium): Cast with Medium Armor and/or a light shield without ASF.
->->Armored Mage (Heavy):Cast with Heavy Armor and/or with a heavy shield.
(Seems fine to me without mixing in tower shields, or should I do light shields and bucklers>heavy shields>tower shields?)

Class Feats:
These can't be chosen as regular feats, but can be chosen with a class' bonus feat, they may have non-feat prerequisites.
None as of yet, but some will be changed to use Charisma as their base stat, seeing as Intelligence and Wisdom actually do something beyond boost casting.

2009-12-03, 08:04 PM
Generic Class by Baron Corm (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94616).

Not that you can't make your own. Just saying--there's already one out there. Maybe you could talk to Baron about the project. He could probably help out, or you could get ideas from him. He's always open to suggestions for his too.

2009-12-03, 08:31 PM
The Generic Psion
{table]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Good Save|Poor Saves|Features|Power Points|Powers Known|Maximum Power Level Known
1st|+0|+2|+0|Class Feat|2|3|1st
5th|+2|+4|+1|Class Feat|25|11|2nd
10th|+5|+7|+3|Class Feat|88|21|5th
15th|+7|+9|+5|Class Feat|195|28|7th
20th|+10|+12|+6|Class Feat|343|36|9th[/table]
Hit Die: d4
Skills: (2 + Intelligence Modifier) points a level (x4 at first level);
Autohypnosis, Concentraton, Craft, Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) Listen, Profession, Psicraft, Search, Spot.
Proficiencies: A Psion is proficient with all simple weapons.
(A spellcaster is also proficient with all simple weapons instead of just one.)
Saves: An Initiator has one good save of his choice, his other two saves are poor.

At creation, the Psion chooses whether he wants to cast off of Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma.

What should be done with discipline powers?

Not to be rude, Temotei221, but did you read my first post at all?

2009-12-03, 08:34 PM
My bad. I skipped the first sentence and read the rest, for some reason.

2009-12-04, 06:14 AM
I am interested in this. Could you make a meldshaper generic class? it may be a good thing to add to the idea.

2009-12-04, 11:07 AM
I am interested in this. Could you make a meldshaper generic class? it may be a good thing to add to the idea.

I could. I'm not very accustomed to Incarnum, though. I've skimmed through the book twice so far, but I've never sat down and read the lists from top to bottom.

I'm more concerned with the "Initiator" (Considering "Martial Artist" and "Swordmage," as 'misleading' as that is), since I feel like more people like the Tome of Battle than do Magic of Incarnum... at least, more people seem to use ToB than MoI.

For the Initiator, what class' maneuver progression should be used? What recovery method should be use? I'm considering letting the class use any school's maneuvers, but I'm not sure if that's balanced. I'm not the most familiar with ToB, either, but I plan on reading the whole book tonight and making a class table.

I'm considering giving the Expert and the Warrior more feats, as follows.

(Number in parenthesis is total with level feats.)

With this feat progression, I would consider giving the Initiator more bonus feats than the casters.

There'll be a slight wording change. Instead of calling bonus feats "Bonus Feat," I am going to call them "Class Feat." Class Feat can be used to choose class features you qualify for (or a feat you qualify for), where as "Bonus Feat" can only choose a feat you qualify for.

I'm considering adding Divine Grace as a selectable class feature. What prerequisites should Divine Grace have? I feel like I should impose "Level 2" as a requirement, but that only encourages Charisma Spellcaster/Psion to dip into another class for DG. Any 'better' name for Divine Grace, a non-'divine related' one?

I'm also considering a tiered Class Feat:
Elude Touch: as the wilder class feature.
->Elusive Grace(?): Add Cha to your regular AC, too.

2009-12-04, 11:31 AM
I'm considering adding Divine Grace as a selectable class feature. What prerequisites should Divine Grace have? I feel like I should impose "Level 2" as a requirement, but that only encourages Charisma Spellcaster/Psion to dip into another class for DG. Any 'better' name for Divine Grace, a non-'divine related' one?

I'm also considering a tiered Class Feat:
Elude Touch: as the wilder class feature.
->Elusive Grace(?): Add Cha to your regular AC, too.

Well the Nymph's version is called unearthly grace. Though it has the cha as deflection ac in with the cha to saves.

2009-12-05, 06:22 PM
This should resemble the Warblade's table, as it's almost directly based on it.

The Generic Initiator.

Level|Base Attack Bonus|Good Save|Poor Saves|Features|Maneuvers Known|Maneuvers Readied|Stances Known
1|+1|+2|+0|Class Feat|3|3|1
4|+4|+4|+1|Class Feat|5|4|2
8|+8/+3|+6|+2|Class Feat|7|4|2
12|+12/+7/+2|+8|+4|Class Feat|9|5|3
16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|Class Feat|11|6|4
19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+6|Class Feat|13|6|4
20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+6|Capstone Feat|13|7|4

Hit Die: d10.
Skill Points: 4+Int per Level (x4 at first).
Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Profession, Ride, and Swim are the Initiator's class skills. In addition, practicing a disciplines give the Initiator its key skill as a class skill.
Proficiencies: The Initiator is proficient with all simple weapons, light and medium armor, and light and heavy shields. In addition, an Initiator is proficient with five weapons--these can be selected from weapons associated with his practiced disciplines.
Saves: An Initiator has one good save of his choice, his other two saves are poor.

Maneuvers: You begin your career with knowledge of three martial maneuvers. Upon gaining the Initiator class, you choose any five disciplines, these are the only disciplines you may choose maneuvers from. Depending on your campaign, you may be able to learn new disciplines later on.

Capstone Feat: Upon reaching 20th level, you gain an unprecedented mastery of your blade magic. You gain either the Dual Stance class feature or the Dual Boost class feature (usable three times a day).

The reason I choose to give these guys a feat every 4th level is because 8 and 12 looked like dead levels to me. This also leaves the Initiator getting one more feat than Spellcasters and Psions. What do you think of the "capstone" feat as an added bonus for taking 20 levels? Should other classes get something similar?
Edit: 19th level is kind of a dead level, so I moved the Class Feat up from 20 and left the Capstone Feat at 20.

2009-12-12, 04:30 PM
I've been putting a little bit of thought into my Generic Spellcaster.

I'm going to stick with the 'sorcerous' progression, but am considering improving its spells known slightly.

I feel like the slower spell progression plays with prestige classes better, and I feel compelled to include prestige classes with this package. For the most part, spellcaster prestige classes will be 5-level prestige classes and have 4/5 progression, losing out on their first level most of the time.

To compensate for the slowed spellcasting progression, the character will be rewarded with more spells known. I love the way the Sand Shaper plays with spontaneous casters, and I intend to recreate this to a lesser extent. Every spellcasting prestige class should improve a spellcaster's spells known and, on top of that, either give early access to a few spells or provide a useful class feature.

To get started, I'll give an example prestige class, the Elementalist. The class is meant to have an appeal to players wanting a blaster, but also generate some utility.

The Elementalist
Feats: Energy Substitution (any two)
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) 8 ranks, Knowledge (The Planes) 8 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks, OR Spellcasting 8 ranks.

{table]Level|BAB|Good Save|Poor Saves|Class Features|Spellcasting
1st|+0|+2|+0|Elemental Insight, Elemental Prowess, Energy Substitution|-
2nd|+1|+3|+0|Advanced Learning|+1 to existing spellcasting class.
3rd|+1|+3|+1|Elemental Substitution|+1 to existing spellcasting class.
4th|+2|+4|+1|Advanced Learning|+1 to existing spellcasting class.
5th|+2|+4|+1|Advanced Learning, Improved Elemental Prowess|+1 to existing spellcasting class.[/table]

Hit Die: d4.
Skill points: 2+Int per level.
Class Skills: Concentration, Knowledge (All skills, taken individually), Spellcasting.
Saves: One good.

Spellcasting: At each class level after 1st, an Elementalist gains new spells per day and spells known as if he had also gained a level in spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning or destroying undead, a bonus feat, and so on). If he had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an Elementalist, he must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

Elemental Insight: Wording in the works, essentially, add the spells below to your spells known. Doesn't let you cast spells of a given level before you normally could.
(What I'm considering right now is to have a selection of spells and let you add one per level to your spells known, that way you can learn elemental spells prior to entering the class without having to totally dodge spells on the above list. I would like for the list to not only include elemental blasty spells, but also 'utility' spells like Fire Shield.)

Elemental Prowess: Elementalists are able to cast elemental spells to greater effect than most spellcasters. Add 2 to your caster level when determining your caster level for spells with the [Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire] descriptor.

Energy Substitution: You gain Energy Substitution as a bonus feat.

Advanced Learing: Add any spell with the [Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire] descriptor to your spells known. The chosen spell must be of a level you can cast.

Improved Elemental Prowess: At level 5, an Elementalist becomes so attuned to the elements that she is able to wield elemental spells with tremendous power. Add 4 to your caster level when determining your caster level for spells with the [Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire] descriptor. This replaces the benefit from Elemental Prowess.

I imagine this probably needs a good bit of adjustment and the abilities could probably be more neatly worded (and laid out on the progression), but I feel like I've gotten the gist of what I was suggesting across.

I was tempted to give this class charisma synergy, but I'll refrain from doing that until there is an actual selection of prestige classes for generic casters. Not that I want to give other classes Intelligence or Wisdom synergy (because I firmly believe that Charisma is much worse than Int or Wis), but so that they can have class features that 'work' for them.

Also, one can qualify for the class at Spellcaster 5 (Bonus feats each going to an energy substitution)--you get into the class at level 6, and take it to 10 is the idea.

Essentially, Players would be able to take two prestige classes and still get 9th level spells pre-epic. However, players that just take one prestige class or no prestige classes will get to cast more daily 9th level spells (and others) than the (more flexible) 10/4(5)/4(5) casters.

2009-12-19, 11:23 AM
So, I lied when I said there wouldn't be any full casting prestige classes...

The Generic Psychic Theurge
Spellcasting: Caster level 3rd.
Manifesting: Manifestor level 2nd.
Spellcasting: Caster level 2nd.
Manifesting: Maniefstor level 3rd.

{table]Level|BAB|Good Save|Bad Saves|Class Features|Spellcasting/Manifesting
1st|+0.5|-|-|Sudden Quicken 1/Encounter|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
2nd|+1.0|-|-|-|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
3rd|+1.5|-|-|Mystic Prowess|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
4th|+2.0|-|-|-|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
5th|+2.5|-|-|Sudden Quicken 2/Encounter|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
6th|+3.0|-|-|Mystic Prowess|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
7th|+3.5|-|-|-|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
8th|+4.0|-|-|-|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
9th|+4.5|-|-|Mystic Prowess|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
10th|+5.0|-|-|Sudden Quicken 3/Encounter|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
11th|+5.5|-|-|-|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
12th|+6.0|-|-|Mystic Prowess|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
13th|+6.5|-|-|-|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
14th|+7.0|-|-|-|+1 existing class/+1 existing class
15th|+7.5|-|-|Mystic Prowess|+1 existing class/+1 existing class[/table]

Sudden Quicken: A Psychic Theurge is capable of casting more spells and manifesting more powers in the amount of time that most spellcasters or manifestors would have to struggle to do so. A Psychic Theurge can cast one spell or manifest one power as a swift action once per encounter at 1st level, twice per encounter at 5th level, and three times per level at 10th level.
(Should this be 5/10/15?)

Mystic Prowess: At each third level (3, 6, 9, 12, and 15), a Psychic Theurge recieves otherworldly insight into his spells and powers, he improves his manifestor level and/or his caster level for every class he has levels in. This does not increas his spells/powers known or maximum spell/power level, only his save DC and possibly qualify him for new feats or prestige classes.
(That means, you get 3+20 and 2+20 as your caster/manifestor levels at level 15. Should that be toned down?)

What's noteworthy here is that this class "should" always be SAD. Spellcasters and Psions get to choose their manifesting stat.

This is yet another 'outline', I'm really just trying to get feedback on anything right now.

I'm deciding what casting progression I want to give the gish prestige class. I'm considering giving the Expert/Caster (/manifestor?) class full progression, since it'll take a lot of skill points to get into.

For the gish PrC, I was thinking of making it like an Abjurant Champion that essentially replaces Abjuration with "The Spell descriptor of your choice," which would be chosen upon entering the class. It would have synergy with the Elementalist.

One final note, I included fractional BAB in the table, I will add fractional BAB and saves to the tables eventually.