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View Full Version : Optimizing a level 20 druid for a duel!(3.5)



ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-12-04, 12:36 AM
I need to know the best possible options for a level 20 druid.

This is a from scratch druid so all feats are an option, the DM has told me to pull out all the stops and make this druid a MONSTER so im going for it. there are only a few limitations.

LIMITATIONS:
Core(phb) races only.
No 3rd party content (which includes dragon magazine)
No 3.0/must be 3.5
Gold limit of 120,000

that's it. . those are my only limitations. . .

I have access to so many books it would be silly to list them. . . I dont have much eberon but I do have a little.

Tackyhillbillu
2009-12-04, 12:38 AM
Take Planar Shepherd.

Win.

That is all.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-04, 12:39 AM
Be a kobold Master of Many Forms.

Win more.

That is all.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-12-04, 12:43 AM
Be a kobold Master of Many Forms.

Win more.

That is all.

I'd love to but i'm not allowed. . . *pout*

i have to be a Players handbook race

rockdeworld
2009-12-04, 12:43 AM
Take Planar Shepherd.

Be a kobold Master of Many Forms.
No 3rd party content...?

IthilanorStPete
2009-12-04, 12:46 AM
Those aren't 3rd party content, they're just other splatbooks published by WotC.

Magnor Criol
2009-12-04, 12:47 AM
Planar Shepard is in an Eberron book (Dieties of Eberron? Something like that) so it's not 3rd party.

Master of Many Forms is in Complete Adventurer, so it's not 3rd party.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-04, 12:47 AM
I'd love to but i'm not allowed. . . *pout*

i have to be a Players handbook race

You don't actually have to be a kobold. It just helps if you start out as one.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-04, 12:51 AM
If he really wants you to make him cry, Planar Shepherd from Faiths of Eberron can give you either basically limitless free wishes or a 10:1 action ratio. And you get full Wildshape, AC, and spellcasting progression.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-12-04, 12:58 AM
Planar shepperd is kind of the obvious choice. . . anything else? Anything not so broken it should have been banned from the game a long time ago? lol

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-04, 12:59 AM
Planar shepperd is kind of the obvious choice. . . anything else? Anything not so broken it should have been banned from the game a long time ago? lol
Venomfire, Fleshrakers...

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-04, 01:02 AM
Oh, god, I forgot Venomfire. Serpent Kingdoms, adds 1d6 per CL to all poisonous attacks for hours/level. Grab a Fleshraker AC(MMIII) and cast it on him, go to town. Then go to hell for unleashing such a monstrosity.

Johanas
2009-12-04, 01:16 AM
Thankfully, this isn't for the game. We'll be down a player for the first 2 hours of next week's game, so a couple players suggested a level 20 arena 4 person brawl. I said it was fine with me, we've been plot heavy lately, so a nice visceral fight sounded great. I feel sorry for those poor saps come Wednesday.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-04, 01:17 AM
Unless they come with totally pimped out Incantatrixes, Ruby Knight Vindicators, and Infinite-PP Anticipatory Strike Psions...

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-12-04, 01:21 AM
Unless they come with totally pimped out Incantatrixes, Ruby Knight Vindicators, and Infinite-PP Anticipatory Strike Psions...

The thing is, we're all going to be frighting eachother. . .this is going to be a 4 way duel. . . we're all going to build the most bad ass thing we can and then try to kill eachother. .. it'll be fun. . .

So. . . the real question is going to be who wants to take bets on what build is gonna win?

Johanas
2009-12-04, 01:23 AM
We'll see. Good news is, it's just a reprieve from plot, so I can participate as a combatant. The caster i'm cooking up is pretty fantastic. I hate to admit it, but I WAS kinda thinking Incantrix. Trying for as-many-spells-in-one-turn-as-possible cheese. Preferably with a lot of Sudden Metamagic Feats.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-04, 01:26 AM
If you 2 are both in this fight, you need separate threads. It's too complicated otherwise.

Although you may want to work together, at least initially...

ShneekeyTheLost
2009-12-04, 01:39 AM
We'll see. Good news is, it's just a reprieve from plot, so I can participate as a combatant. The caster i'm cooking up is pretty fantastic. I hate to admit it, but I WAS kinda thinking Incantrix. Trying for as-many-spells-in-one-turn-as-possible cheese. Preferably with a lot of Sudden Metamagic Feats.

Check your PM's :smallbiggrin:

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-04, 02:18 AM
Isn't it more than a little unfair for Combatant #2 to be checking in on Combatant #1's "Help me with my build" thread?

Recon mission, etc?

You might consider things like explosive spell to add to large AoE effects...such as storm of vengeance...

Eldariel
2009-12-04, 02:59 AM
Either way, make heavy use of Shapechange. In fact, you mite as well DMM: Persist Shapechange, picking up Turning with a level of Cleric or Sacred Exorcist or such (allows Persisting other nice buffs too; though the most powerful Druid-buffs are hour/level anyways). You can use it...for awesome.

PinkysBrain
2009-12-04, 03:10 AM
Planar shepperd is kind of the obvious choice. . . anything else? Anything not so broken it should have been banned from the game a long time ago? lol
You can check some of the ToS high tier caster fights to see what's left after all the obviously broken stuff is banned.

(Hint : win init, anticipate contingencies, have tricky contingencies which can't be anticipated ... also, don't die when killed.)

Tshern
2009-12-04, 07:24 AM
Venomfire, Fleshrakers...
At level 20 Fleshrakers are for wussies. Behold the sensation that is Ten-Headed Shrieking Terror! Share Shapechange with your animal companion, cast Energy admixtured Maximized (use a rod) Venomfire at caster level, say, 25 (easy to get, Beads of karma and Ioun stone alone do this) and enjoy the 3000 damage both you and your companion can dish out each round.

Also, halfling might be a good choice for a race. Races of the Wild has a feat called Yondalla's sense and it gives you your wisdom modifier to initiative. No need to worship Yondalla either...

Fenix_of_Doom
2009-12-04, 07:28 AM
Gold limit of 120,000

120,000 gp at level 20? Really? That's 1/6 of the advised WBL! VoP is considered decent for druids, with only 1/6 of normal wbl I think that should push it over the edge.

Chrono22
2009-12-04, 07:33 AM
Be a VOP druid planar shepherd. You'll cast as a level 20 druid and a level 20 cleric via wildshaping into a solar. You also get wishes, and time in a small radius around you passes ten times as fast. This means for every round that passes outside the planar bubble, you get ten rounds of time to act on.

Brendan
2009-12-04, 07:43 AM
Have any of the other players told you some of their ideas? If so, what are they? this could help with the decision making problems. For example, if someone is immune to arcane magic, a wizard would not be advisable, and so on. What is everyone else?

Tshern
2009-12-04, 07:48 AM
Be a VOP druid planar shepherd. You'll cast as a level 20 druid and a level 20 cleric via wildshaping into a solar. You also get wishes, and time in a small radius around you passes ten times as fast. This means for every round that passes outside the planar bubble, you get ten rounds of time to act on.
22 HD. Good luck. I know Mantle of the Beast gives you +1 effective HD and there probably is another item like that, but that won't work with VoP.

Chrono22
2009-12-04, 07:51 AM
Where does this HD limit come from? I'm not seeing it in the description of wild shape.
Usually HD limits are 2 * your caster level, not equal.

Eldariel
2009-12-04, 08:00 AM
Where does this HD limit come from? I'm not seeing it in the description of wild shape.
Usually HD limits are 2 * your caster level, not equal.

1) Errata.
2) Go Planetar.
3) Black Ethergaunt.

Tshern
2009-12-04, 08:01 AM
Where does this HD limit come from? I'm not seeing it in the description of wild shape.
Usually HD limits are 2 * your caster level, not equal.
Where did you get that figure from? Let me show you the rules on this with some examples:

You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th level. You can change into a member of your own kind or even into yourself.

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD). Unlike polymorph, this spell allows incorporeal or gaseous forms to be assumed.

The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level.

Tshern
2009-12-04, 08:02 AM
1) Errata.
2) Go Planetar.
3) Black Ethergaunt.
This. Without Vow of Poverty you might somehow be able to snatch that Solar form though. I'd probably settle for Planetar wild shape and, like Eldariel suggested, Shapechange into a Black Ethegaunt to get Wizard casting as well. No need to stop when the fun has just started.

PinkysBrain
2009-12-04, 08:26 AM
Or in other words, don't take VoP ... it's weak sauce.

Tshern
2009-12-04, 08:34 AM
Or in other words, don't take VoP ... it's weak sauce.
With 120k of wealth at level 20? Arguable.

OMG PONIES
2009-12-04, 10:44 AM
For some reason, I think a druid/planar shepherd/saint with Vow of Poverty would actually do pretty well.

ocdscale
2009-12-04, 10:49 AM
For some reason, I think a druid/planar shepherd [anything could go here] would actually do pretty well.

I agree.
Four

OMG PONIES
2009-12-04, 10:52 AM
You'd lose two caster levels, but you'd still have 9th level spells. What do the optimizers say?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-04, 11:26 AM
Why do you need Saint on top of Planar Shepard?

OMG PONIES
2009-12-04, 11:27 AM
For giggles? WIS to AC? Lesser Globe of Invulnerability? Boosting spell DCs? But mostly the giggles.

Tshern
2009-12-04, 11:28 AM
I heard a rumour of a post on the first page asking for options apart from the Planar Shepherd.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-04, 11:30 AM
I hear rumors that MoMF was suggested.

Zovc
2009-12-04, 11:35 AM
I hear rumors that MoMF was suggested.

I take it MoMF gets full casting progression?

Cyclocone
2009-12-04, 11:37 AM
I heard a rumour of a post on the first page asking for options apart from the Planar Shepherd.

Contemplative, if you can manage the PreReqs.
Get Time domain or somesuch.
Stop loving and learn to bomb the RNG!

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-04, 11:39 AM
I take it MoMF gets full casting progression?

No progression. Does let you turn into Pun-Pun, though.

Zovc
2009-12-04, 11:43 AM
No progression. Does let you turn into Pun-Pun, though.

Oh, I guess that works... DX

Deth Muncher
2009-12-04, 12:21 PM
No progression. Does let you turn into Pun-Pun, though.

Eh, at that point, that's just BLATANT CHEATING, not SUPER OPTIMIZATION.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-04, 12:34 PM
If you take crafting feats (and the gp/xp-reduction feats from the Eberron Campaign Setting) you can increase your wealth dramatically at the cost of a single level.

Could very well possibly maybe probably won't be worth it.

If you ignore errata, you can take the price-reduction feats multiple times.

DO EEET.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-12-04, 01:13 PM
well this has all been very helpful. . . so i'll answer a few questions


120,000 gp at level 20? Really? That's 1/6 of the advised WBL! VoP is considered decent for druids, with only 1/6 of normal wbl I think that should push it over the edge.

Well this whole fight is just for fun, we wont be attatched to these characters. We figured we'd make it based on the Build more than the magic items so we limited the gold.


Have any of the other players told you some of their ideas? If so, what are they? this could help with the decision making problems. For example, if someone is immune to arcane magic, a wizard would not be advisable, and so on. What is everyone else?

one is gonna be a classic metamagic wizard. One is being very secretive about his build (but i'm guessing he's going to go warlock because he's in love with them), the other is hopeless and cant figure out what he's gonna do. then theres me and i've chosen druid. . . i'm also the only girl so i'd like to win and rub their noses in it.

This whole thing is just a fun way for us to waste some time. it's just a free for all 4 way fight between the players where we go. hahahahaha I WIN at the end and winner gets bragging rights.


I heard a rumour of a post on the first page asking for options apart from the Planar Shepherd.

Yes please.