<any D&D> Pearl of power limits?

[ken-do-nim]

I limit each spellcaster to use one and only one pearl of power per day. Does anybody else limit them in any way?

(note that the pearl that allows 2 spells to be recast can of course be used twice per day - I'm limiting by pearl not by uses)

[Draz74]

Awww, boo. My Paladins all swear oaths of vengeance against you!

(Being able to buy about 26 Level 1 Pearls of Power, and use them all, is a huge boon to the Paladin class.)

[Glimbur]

They're pretty expensive, at least for those of levels high enough to really worry about. I haven't seen anyone really abuse them... of course I haven't seen anyone really use them so your mileage may vary.

Were I to run a game I would not limit them.

[Tyndmyr]

I've never limited them, and while Ive seen use of them, I've never seen them cause balance issues.

I mean, I guess as a high level caster, you could get stupid amounts of level 1 spells. Not that this would be useful, but you could. Why bother?

[erikun]

I don't really see much difference between a low-level Pearl of Power and just getting the appropiate wand.

How many campiagns have characters wandering around with a half-dozen 9th level Pearls of Power, anyways? How much money would it be to buy (or make) that many?

[Tyndmyr]

The answer is "More than you can afford".

At least, until so far into epic that it's hardly a real concern.

[Duke of URL]

I'd limit them to one of each type of pearl, under the guidelines that benefits from the same source don't stack unless they specifically say they do. So, 1 PoP (5th) and 1 PoP (4th) is fine, but 2 PoP (5th) wouldn't work.

[Tyndmyr]

It's not a stacking effect, it's a use effect. It's like having multiple wands. You can always use whichever one you want to.

Thus, stacking rules are irrelevant to how pearls work.

[Tiktakkat]

The only limit I place on pearls of power is to make them usable only once per day, like memento magica. No passing the pearls around as they are used.
Otherwise, buy and use as many as you can afford. It just means other items you will not have when you want them.

[Duke of URL]

It's not a stacking effect, it's a use effect. It's like having multiple wands. You can always use whichever one you want to.

Thus, stacking rules are irrelevant to how pearls work.

I didn't say it was RAW, I said it's how I'd rule. I'm fully aware that others might rule differently.

[Myrmex]

1st level pearls are very handy, since there are so many great 1st level spells that you'll probably want to cast multiple times a day, regardless of level. You can prepare 1 nerveskitter, 1 true strike, 1 comprehend languages, 1 magic missile, and 1 shield, and with 5k on pearls, you can cast those spells multiple times, as needed.

[ken-do-nim]

I don't really see much difference between a low-level Pearl of Power and just getting the appropiate wand.

How many campiagns have characters wandering around with a half-dozen 9th level Pearls of Power, anyways? How much money would it be to buy (or make) that many?

I have seen pearls of power HORRENDOUSLY abused by clerics to regain shield of faith, divine favor, and divine power. Remember that a wand casts at a very low level, but a spell restored by a pearl of power is at the caster's power. World of difference.

[Myrmex]

I have seen pearls of power HORRENDOUSLY abused by clerics to regain shield of faith, divine favor, and divine power. Remember that a wand casts at a very low level, but a spell restored by a pearl of power is at the caster's power. World of difference.

So they put those spells up every battle. They're still taking 3 rounds to do it. In that amount of time, a TWF rogue or charger fighter can murder two opponents each.

In my experience, if a buffer isn't breaking the action economy, it's not really abuse.

[Tyndmyr]

1st level pearls are very handy, since there are so many great 1st level spells that you'll probably want to cast multiple times a day, regardless of level. You can prepare 1 nerveskitter, 1 true strike, 1 comprehend languages, 1 magic missile, and 1 shield, and with 5k on pearls, you can cast those spells multiple times, as needed.

One pearl, sure. How many times are you going to need to cast shield per day at higher levels? How many times are you going to bother casting an unquickened true strike per day?

And you should have more than 5 first level slots. You have five not counting bonuses at level 7 as an unspecialized wizard with no bonus slots. You *will* have bonus level 1 slots, and a specialist or focused specialist will have even more. 7-9 is more accurate, and most available level 1 spells are overshadowed by later, better spells.

[Myrmex]

One pearl, sure. How many times are you going to need to cast shield per day at higher levels?

Anytime you don't want to get killed by magic missile spam?


How many times are you going to bother casting an unquickened true strike per day?

When you want to hit something, but don't want to burn a 5th level slot? Like when you're level 9 to 15? Unless you've cheesed out with metamagic reducers.


And you should have more than 5 first level slots. You have five not counting bonuses at level 7 as an unspecialized wizard with no bonus slots. You *will* have bonus level 1 slots, and a specialist or focused specialist will have even more. 7-9 is more accurate, and most available level 1 spells are overshadowed by later, better spells.

Yeah, but then you might want to cast stuff like Benign Transposition, Blood Wind, Ebon Eyes, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Clumsiness, or Shieldbearer.

Pearls of power let you prepare one of every first level spell you could ever want to cast, and then have that spell as many times/day as you like. And for only 1k a piece, they're easily affordable.

[Tyndmyr]

Anytime you don't want to get killed by magic missile spam?

And how reasonable is it to expect magic missile spam five times a day, spaced far enough apart that you need a seperate shield for each?


When you want to hit something, but don't want to burn a 5th level slot? Like when you're level 9 to 15? Unless you've cheesed out with metamagic reducers.

Touch attacks on most things are rather easy. It's only rarely more effective to cast one buff spell and one attack spell then it is to cast two attack spells.


Yeah, but then you might want to cast stuff like Benign Transposition, Blood Wind, Ebon Eyes, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Clumsiness, or Shieldbearer.

More than once a day? I believe there are better higher level versions of the ability damage rays, for example.


Pearls of power let you prepare one of every first level spell you could ever want to cast, and then have that spell as many times/day as you like. And for only 1k a piece, they're easily affordable.

You could...but you face diminishing returns very quickly after the first pearl. Sure, one shield a day will come up. Two may come up. Five? No.

In short, these rulings are nerfing something that is already quite situational, and certainly not cheesy.

[Myrmex]

And how reasonable is it to expect magic missile spam five times a day, spaced far enough apart that you need a seperate shield for each?



Touch attacks on most things are rather easy. It's only rarely more effective to cast one buff spell and one attack spell then it is to cast two attack spells.



More than once a day? I believe there are better higher level versions of the ability damage rays, for example.



You could...but you face diminishing returns very quickly after the first pearl. Sure, one shield a day will come up. Two may come up. Five? No.

You're missing the point. Say you have 9 1st level spell slots. You can put a different spell in each slot, then use pearls of power as needed to duplicate the same spell effect. You may not use the spell at all; you may use it twice; you may need it 5 times. The nice thing about pearls is that they're flexible.


In short, these rulings are nerfing something that is already quite situational, and certainly not cheesy.

How is this related to what I posted?

[JeenLeen]

I'd limit them to one of each type of pearl, under the guidelines that benefits from the same source don't stack unless they specifically say they do. So, 1 PoP (5th) and 1 PoP (4th) is fine, but 2 PoP (5th) wouldn't work.

My DM ruled similarly (but just for balance, not based off a rule), but that we could only use one PoP a day.

We did have the option of getting the ones that could recharge 2 spells, but we couldn't use a level 5 and a level 1, or two level 1s.

We were nearing epic when started buying them, so it was to curb the ability to buy multiple level 9s. However, as I had a buffing War Weaver wizard, having a few level 5s and lower would have been extremely powerful.

[Tokiko Mima]

Honestly, Pearls of Power are not in any way overpowered. They're command word activated and therefore require a standard action to recharge a spell slot, so they're inconvenient to use in combat. They only return a spell to you that you memorized and cast earlier, and except for the 1st level one they're kind of expensive to buy in any large quantity.

It's not number of spells/day that makes casters overpowered anyway (if it was Mystic Theurges would be the UBAH! class), it's the spells they get on their highest levels, and it's tough to buy enough PoP's with a standard WBL to make a difference with those. All PoP's do is make casters more likely to memorize a selection of spells, rather than the same spell several times. Sometimes variety is a good and fun thing.

[Mando Knight]

If you have a problem with it, you could institute a "daily use" system like the one used for 4e's Pearls. By limiting how many powerful items can be used in a day by a single person, hoarding powerful treasure becomes less useful.

[ken-do-nim]

So they put those spells up every battle. They're still taking 3 rounds to do it. In that amount of time, a TWF rogue or charger fighter can murder two opponents each.

In my experience, if a buffer isn't breaking the action economy, it's not really abuse.

Maybe you played in parties that didn't do a lot of ambushes, or buff then kick the door in.

I think the key is that the pearls don't recast the spell immediately, they restore the memorize spell to your mind. Very convenient to do outside of combat. All I can say is that if you play with me sometime, I'd be glad to abuse them to no end and show you :)

[Paul H]

Hi

I've played a Cleric/Warmage/Mystic Theurge in a recently expired campaign (Living Greyhawk). Had 4 PoP lvl 1, 1 PoP lvl 2, & 2 lvl 1MM. Made them myself.

They didn't dominate the game in any way. After all, they took a std action to activate their power, so you could cast the spell later.. Best use was for multiple Endure Elements for the entire party.

Cheers
Paul H

[Myrmex]

Maybe you played in parties that didn't do a lot of ambushes, or buff then kick the door in.

Maybe you played with a DM that didn't do a lot of ambushes or had the monsters take it to the players.


I think the key is that the pearls don't recast the spell immediately, they restore the memorize spell to your mind. Very convenient to do outside of combat. All I can say is that if you play with me sometime, I'd be glad to abuse them to no end and show you :)

So they can put up Divine Power & Prayer in one more combat. Nifty. That cost them 25,000 gold. The fighter still spent his first two rounds charging, cleaving, and full attacking, with another cleave. He has killed at least two opponents. The cleric has done... nothing.

[sdream]

- They don't violate the action economy
- They don't make a spellcaster more dangerous on his first turn

There are many problems with magic in 3.5, but the PoP is not one of them.

[Snails]

If Pearls are so obviously useful as to cross the fuzzy line into "abusive", then you already have bigger problems on your hands, e.g. Divine Power + Righteous Might.

The Pearls are merely exacerbating an existing problem, one that I would dare make the educated guess does not significantly impact most campaigns.

No one is saying that Pearls are not nice. The question is whether it is really so much better than the alternatives. Do 12th level Wizards choose to have a +3 Cloak or Resistance instead of a +4 Cloak, so that they can spend 7k more on Pearls for additional low level spells?

There is lots of stuff which is "good". That is a given. The question is under what conditions are Pearls obviously better than the Big Six.

[Tyndmyr]

Maybe you played in parties that didn't do a lot of ambushes, or buff then kick the door in.

I think the key is that the pearls don't recast the spell immediately, they restore the memorize spell to your mind. Very convenient to do outside of combat. All I can say is that if you play with me sometime, I'd be glad to abuse them to no end and show you :)

This is abuse? Seriously, you must hate extend and persist spell.

[Snails]

This is abuse? Seriously, you must hate extend and persist spell.

Persist spell is extremely poorly designed. Specifically, it takes what is nominally a disadvantage (the spell targets Self), and makes such a potentially huge advantage.

There are a number of spells for which Persist is not abusive. But its sloppy design opens a number of doors that should be left closed.