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Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-04, 06:51 PM
I've been pondering the possibility of starting my own freeform RP in the games section, and I was wondering if I could get some help in building the basic ideas and trying to "balance" it, as balanced as a freeform game can be.

The idea I have is for there to have been some kind of zombie apocalypse that wiped out most civilization, and a new civilization has managed to grow out of the ashes. Now, humanity's preparing to make its move to take back the world from the shambling dead.

The reason I was asking about "balance" is that I sort of developed a proto-concept. The concept is that each player picks one of three "races" and then picks one of two "classes" that are only available to their particular "race." The "races" are the Pure, the Survivors and the Plagued:

The Pure:
The Pure are basically the remnants of the US government and military forces. When the virus first reached the US, they were ready, retreating into sterilized enclaves where they've lived for generations. Because of this, the Pure have the closest to what can be considered a civilization. They've made many technological leaps since the apocalypse, and are the ones who are trying to restore civilization, partly by trying to find a cure, or at least a vaccination for the virus.

Because most Pure live in their sterilized enclaves, the virus still poses a significant risk to them. When they travel outside their enclaves, they have to wear special environment suits to avoid contamination from the airborne pathogen. They compensate for this weakness through superior firepower, having access to advanced guns and bioweapons, as well as new computer technology.

The classes for the Pure are the Soldier and the Scientist.
The Survivors:
These are people whose ancestors managed to fight off the airborne virus, and passed on this immunity to their children. Very much like the traditional survivors of a zombie apocalypse, they are drifters just trying to stay alive in a zombie-filled world. Some move from safehouse to safehouse on foot, some drive old vehicles as a sort of portable safehouse, and some band together to form communities of their own.

Survivors are immune to the airborne strain of the zombie infection, but they can still turn if they get bitten. Because of this, Survivors rely primarily on stealth. They try to avoid the attention of the zombies, or pick off lone ones, since their weaponry is limited to what they can scavenge. They're also adept at jury-rigging whatever they can find to help them survive, whether that's rigging a trap from found materieals, hotwiring an abandoned car, or making a home-made gun.

The Survivor classes are the Hunter and the Scavenger.
The Plagued:
Two words. Sentient zombies. The Plagued were infected with the virus, and did turn, but for reasons unknown have retained their minds. They're misunderstood at best by the Survivors and the Pure because they don't look much different from regular zombies. But the Plagued are something special. Most zombies are weak individually, only posing a major threat in a horde. Plagued are much more durable. This, combined with their immunity to the virus, allows them to go toe-to-toe with zombies and not only survive, but win.

The Plagued can take a significant beating, and can regenerate their damaged bodies by consuming human biomatter. They regenerate in different ways depending on what particular biomatter is consumed. Some are carrion-eaters, while others drink human blood like the vampires of fiction. They tend to specialize in unarmed or melee combat, since they tend to accumulate few possessions, and rarely need such things anyway.

The classes for the Plagued are the Ghoul and the Vampire.
I need some help with understanding how a zomibe apocalypse would affect the world, as well as just how the virus should work.

I know that technically speaking, if humanity were to suddenly die off, the nuclear power plants and reactors and the like would melt down, causing a lot of Chernobyl-style clouds of radiation that would kill off most life all over the world. How do I avoid that happening?

Should the virus just affect humans, or other animals? If it affects other animals, how does that affect the ecosystem? How do people keep from starving?

I really want to work with this idea, but I'm not to sure how to go about it.

Randel
2009-12-04, 11:03 PM
A few ideas:

1. First off, the collapse of civilization would not result in nuclear plants destroying all life via toxic melt-downs. The immediate area around them would be a really bad place to be and produce birth defects and cancer and stuff but its effects should be... somewhat localized. Also, a nuclear plant that's actually well-built would have safeguards in place, Chernoble went bad like it did because the engineers who built it were idiots. A decent reactor would have lower-grade nuclear fuel in it that is simply incapable of reaching critical mass... at worse it might get hot enough to melt the reactor in which case the fuel would probably get covered in molten glass or something automatically. Plus, tugsten rods would automatically get deployed to absorb stray radiation and stuff.

In short, people have learned from Chernobyl so any reactors left unattended should automatically shut down until somebody performs like a hundred steps to get it up and running again.


2. For the virus, if it acts anything like a real virus then there should be some people (or animals) that can carry the virus without dying from it.

so in addition to the others, there could be these:

The Carriers: These look just like normal humans, with at worse maybe a slight cough or tendency to itch. They carry the virus and silently and presumably unknowingly spread it to others through contact and through the air. Their immunity is hereditary and thus families can be born 'immune' to the disease. If they are bitten, they can heal but the virus won't kill them. Though if they die they will be reanimated as a zombie. Some bloodlines of carriers are disposed towards coming back as Sentient Zombies.

Carriers often mix with Survivors and its difficult to tell them apart. Unfortunately, while Survivors are for the most part immune to the airborne form of the virus, close contact with a Carrier (usually through sharing blood or other bodily fluids) can result in the Survivor getting infected. Many Carriers are seen as either being 'badass enough to survive a zombie bite' or are shunned as plague carriers or bringers of misfortune.

There are a few bloodlines of Carriers that have arisen as a result of Carriers finding eachother and raising families. They are, by nature, tougher than regular Survivors and survivors around them tend to die from the virus. Many view themselves as being the true survivors of the zombie outbreak and thus superior to simple Survivors.


The Cleansed: These select few are actually immune to the zombie virus (at least the most common strain) and can both survive contact with it and their immune systems destroy it. Their blood contains antibodies that can potentially be used to create a vaccine for the virus and cure others. They never turn into zombies if killed.

They can be mistaken for carriers if they survive a zombie bite. If their immunity to the virus is discovered then they can attract unwanted attention from people wishing to study or exploit them. There have been reports of people taking a blood transfusion from a Cleansed and being cured of the virus. However, the blood types must be compatible. A blood type O Cleansed would be a major find.


3. The game Pandemic (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pandemic) might be interesting for you to look at for ideas on diseases and how they work.

4. Note that the disease might work best if it can infect animals as well, mostly rats or maybe a few other mammals. The animals need not turn into zombies, they would mostly be Carriers who survive and spread the virus unknowingly, they only reanimate if killed in some other way. Soo... it could be like rabies where you have to cut off the animals head to see if it was infected or not. Heck, the virus could be a sort of weird mutated version of rabies.

People could survive by eating mostly vegetables. Or, more realistically... just avoid eating the few animals the virus can infect. Plus, Im not 100% sure but cooking meat thoroughly and properly should destroy any viruses in it. As long as the animals don't die from the virus then it shouldn't destroy the ecosystem (or at least don't die before they can have young) there may be elderly deer out there that revive as zombies.

How hostile zombie animals are would be is up to you since different animal brains are different and really a virus shouldn't be jumping around to too many different species as it is. Maybe a zombie deer would get the urge to headbutt any non-deer they encounter while zombie wolves attack and kill things indiscriminately. Zombie rabbits just randomly hop around until they fall apart or a predator eats them (they taste like utter garbage and you have to boil them to nothingness before they are sufficiently cooked to not kill you, but if you can't get anything else then zombie rabbits are food. They last forever because no other animal will eat them).

Plants and insects are right out as far as the Z virus goes since they are way too different from humans to work. Same goes for fish and aquatic mammals (you do NOT want to set off a zombie apocalypse in the ocean).

Zincorium
2009-12-05, 01:42 AM
Nuclear reactors simply don't do that. You have all the artistic license in the world, but realize that some players will roll their eyes at that. Saying nuclear weapons were used on infested cities is both more realistic and more horrifying- humans killed other uninfected humans just to slow the advance. Nuclear reactors would probably be major assets to survivors, as they keep large stockpiles of fuel on the grounds and have enough physical security to make it practically a fortress with some minor alterations by survivors.


If animals can get or carry the virus, survivors are screwed. Seriously, we can't keep rats out now- what happens when they actively seek human flesh and can't be poisoned? Either portray them as seriously hampered by the virus or play up the 'we are so dead' angle if you use them.


One of the big things with zombies is how fast they decay and whether scavenging organisms can eat them. Making them toxic and prone towards (functional) dessication will extend the threat out to centuries or more, while having them as a short term threat means that only fresh victims will replenish the ranks.

Last thing- making the zombies killable by massive numbers of bullets to the torso will improve the game. Requiring a headshot to take them down, considering the skull is rather penetration resistant, will mean that the average person will use up all their ammo before they can take out a significant number of Zeds.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-05, 02:25 AM
The reason I asked about the nuclear reactors is because I think I remember the "Life After People" thing the History Channel did saying something about it. You know the thing where they speculated what would happen if humanity simply vanished?

One of the things they talk about is that without humans to maintain the nuclear stuff, it would eventually deteriorate and leak radiation or something like that. I can't remember the exact details.

Also, what I was thinking about why zombies need to eat human biomatter is because their digestive processes reverse the process of decay, allowing for regeneration if flesh is eaten. Because zombies are basically exposed to the elements constantly, they start rotting, and seek out human flesh to survive. They can eat carrion and if desperate enough will turn on each other, but this doesn't provide as much of a benefit as healthy, freshly killed human biomatter, so they seek live prey whenever possible, and usually avoid eating each other, since they're basically pack animals.

And yes, they are vulnerable to multiple bullets to the torso. That's basically the way the Pure fight. Gun them down before they get too close. They can basically be killed like any other human, though the decay may make things easier or harder. The biggest problem is that they're almost always encountered in numbers, and thus you can easily be overwhelmed by them.

Zincorium
2009-12-05, 02:48 AM
Yeah, they'd leak radiation. At low levels, because all the high radiation isotopes would have decayed by the time the concrete and metal structure was deteriorated enough to release it. Which is much further out than the zombie apocalypse setting you're figuring on. Background radiation levels, the ones that we're perfectly okay surviving at, are higher than people generally imagine.

Like I said, nuclear weapons are a good alternative for creating the hotspots you're thinking of- "We can't go to Denver, everything still glows in the dark, and the things that have crawled out of that hole...".

Chemical plants and similar stockpiles of hazardous waste are also a big deal, as they don't have nearly the same precautions taken as nuclear plants.

On a completely different note, the zombie metabolism that you suggest is a pretty cool idea- but it might be better if the players don't know, or at least aren't sure, that that's how it works. Drop the occasional clue just to give them a feeling that there is *something* they don't know. Ignorance is deadly in survival horror, so they'll probably be bugged by it a great deal.

It also means that you can set it fairly far out if you wanted- even second or third gen survivors that not only have never known anything other than the blasted wasteland full of slavering horrors, but are the children of completely insane badasses with lots of guns. The utterly alien mindsets would be a really interesting thing to play, and this seems like it would be a good idea for a follow-up game sometime later.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-05, 12:03 PM
I understand what you mean about ignorance being a great tool, but the problem is that you knid of shed some light on the zombie metabolic process with the Plagued. Being sentient zombies, they obviously understand that eating human biomatter allows them to regenerate damaged or rotted tissues, and I don't know if they'd rot as fast, given they travel and seek shelter from the elements, unlike zombies who don't really know enough to do so.

I'm not too sure if survival horror is quite the idea I had when I originally came up with this. The atmosphere's a lot more like Fallout 3. The apocalypse has come and gone, and now the humans and their new spin-offs are trying to rebuild. The horror element, if I can figure out how to include one, would probably come from the fact that the zombies are EVERYWHERE, and they still outnumber the other groups by a very large amount. The only thing protecting humankind from extinction is the fact that the zombies aren't smart enough to make a concentrated and coordinated effort to wipe them out. They just charge en masse at a target and rip at it until it's dead. But they're getting smarter, indicating that the virus itself is evolving. It's not so much ignorance as it is the sheer weight of the odds. The players are going to have to fight an uphill battle all the way, though honestly it's more like an upMOUNTAIN battle.

Randel
2009-12-05, 01:12 PM
Hmm... humans don't really reproduce very quickly and if zombies are effectively forced to keep feeding on humans exclusively then there would be large human-free areas where the zombies present would be unable to feed.

This would either result in them undergoing massive zombie migrations in search of humans (which would result in just MASSIVE numbers of zombies shambling across country) or some of them might go into a long-term hibernation until humans return to the area.

weird idea:

Not sure if I've just been watching Gurren Lagann too much, but I'm getting a weird idea that maybe this 'virus' might not be a simple plague and that it might have some sort of quasi-spiritual reason for it.

Okay, imagine that the Earth, or maybe the afterlife or whatever has a sort of intelligence and actively decided that it has to start culling humanity down for some reason. Maybe humans are destroying the environment (or are getting close to irreversibly changing the environment and thereby hampering the evolution or pretty much all other terrestrial life) or with massive human populations they are dying so much that its starting to jam Hell up so much that its causing a technobabbly feedback... so the powers that be created the virus for the purpose of wiping out huge swaths of humanity until their population levels were low enough to stop causing as much damage.

Thus, the zombies are naturally only able to eat or infect humans and have a sort of limited ability to sense when humans are nearby. Zombies stranded in human free areas might dig burrows or tombs or something to hide in and just wait for years and years until someone shows up... at which point they all rise up and attack.

The zombies weren't designed to last forever... maybe two hundred years without human flesh is their maximum age (at that point they are shambling mummies and fodder for anyone who can defend themselves). Plus, whatever metaphysical force started the whole thing (excess population, ecological damage, hatred for fellow man, or whatever) is somewhat tied to the whole thing and eventually the zombies will cease all together once the remnants of humanity stop doing whatever ticked off the Powers that Be (or are unable to do it for whatever reason).

Of course, it could well be just a few hundred generations before Earths population goes back to before and the whole thing starts up again.


I know this is a bit off topic, but I'm wondering if having the zombie plague be the result of Lovecraftian gods who "are doing it for humanities own good" would make slightly more sense than a virus that can reanimate dead flesh... that only affects humans and doesn't do something freaky like reanimate bacteria or something and just totally ruin everyones ecosystem forever.

Shambling undead are nasty, having the oceans turn brown with the blood of zombie fish is just going to ruin everyones day.

Johel
2009-12-05, 01:59 PM
The Pure

The Survivors

The Plagued

http://thezombiehunters.com/
This is a good source for inspiration.

Jallorn
2009-12-05, 02:05 PM
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/aftermath/environment/index.html

This shows how civilization's constructs would collapse.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 01:33 AM
Thank you Jallorn. It seems that I was right.

According to the site, it says "Nuclear Safety Measures Fail" after only a week of no humans.

The diesel generators that keep spent nuclear fuel cool are running out of fuel. The cooling tanks rapidly begin to heat up. Within a week, the water will boil off. Once this happens, the radioactive fallout here will be worse than 500 Hiroshimas.
And then, three days later, "Nuclear Meltdown" and "Radioactive Aftermath."

Superheated steam pours out of nuclear power plants as spent nuclear fuel boils the water in the cooling tanks. Buildings buckle under the intense heat. As radioactive fallout spreads, nearby forests are decimated. Pine trees turn red as clorophyll is damaged. Nuclear power plants in Illinois melt down, filling the streets of Chicago with radioactive smoke. Many of the 30 spent nuclear fuel storage facilities ignite in the eastern United States, each one almost 20 times more radioactive than Chernobyl. Many of Europe's 173 reactors and Japan's 20 reactors melt down. The wind disperses radioactive material across thousands of square miles.
How could humanity even hope to survive something like that, and only a week after the apocalypse started?

Zincorium
2009-12-06, 01:54 AM
We're not talking about people instantly vanishing from the controls, unlike in that program. Unless the outbreak occurs inside the nuclear reactors before anywhere else, the employees will either all run home and drop the control rods in to stop the plant, or they will barricade themselves inside and drop the control rods in when they run out of diesel.

Worst case scenario is that everybody just leaves the controls as is and never returns. And we have safeguards in every reactor built that will drop the control rods if that happens.

Three mile island was a worst-case scenario with a prototype plant, and no measurable amount of radiation was released into the surrounding enviroment. Former soviet republics might be screwed, but this is a zombie apocalypse.



Anyway, you can handwave all of the above and say that it happened regardless. I just think you need to have a good explanation to go along with it if your players point out the above.

Mewtarthio
2009-12-06, 02:15 AM
That site may not be the best source of information. After all, it's based on the premise of (as far as I can tell) all humans suddenly disappearing in a very short amount of time. The zombie apocalypse is a bit more gradual than that.

More cynically, that site has a vested interest in making things sound as catastrophic as possible to get you interested. Now, I'm not a nuclear physicist, so I don't know the details, but I'm fairly certain that nuclear power plants have enough safeguards in place that you wouldn't see any meltdowns. Not only do they have computer systems monitoring those things, I hear they also use materials specially designed to inhibit a nuclear reaction if temperatures go critical.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 12:36 PM
I just want to make sure I'm not completely throwing science out the window. Ever since I saw that I've wondered just how to portray a post-apocalyptic world, given what that thing said about nuclear meltdowns.

I know, it's hypocritical to try and keep your science straight when you've got the rotting dead getting up and biting people, but I don't want versimilitude to go completely out the window.

kjones
2009-12-06, 01:01 PM
I just want to make sure I'm not completely throwing science out the window. Ever since I saw that I've wondered just how to portray a post-apocalyptic world, given what that thing said about nuclear meltdowns.

I know, it's hypocritical to try and keep your science straight when you've got the rotting dead getting up and biting people, but I don't want versimilitude to go completely out the window.

I know a thing or two about reactors - unless their operators suddenly disappear (as in the National Geographic scenario, noted above) it is very, very unlikely that they will catastrophically melt down. You can create enough problems without global nuclear meltdowns - are they that much of an important plot point for your world?

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 01:10 PM
No, what made it a big concern was versimilitude. I don't want my players going, "Wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. Shouldn't the world be a nuclear wasteland after all the nuclear plants meltdown due to not being supervised?"

Thrawn4
2009-12-06, 02:56 PM
Did someone already mention the "Zombie Survival Guide"? Might also be useful - and entertaining ;-)
It's basically a book which contains a lot of practical tips in case you actually face a Zombie Infection. I am also considering a Zombie RPG and find it quite useful.

http://www.amazon.com/Zombie-Survival-Guide-Complete-Protection/dp/1400049628

kjones
2009-12-06, 04:40 PM
No, what made it a big concern was versimilitude. I don't want my players going, "Wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. Shouldn't the world be a nuclear wasteland after all the nuclear plants meltdown due to not being supervised?"

You have two options if this happens:

1. Cite some sort of real-world source that supports your interpretation of this possibility.

2. Smile, nod, and say, "It would seem that way, wouldn't it?" and let them wonder. If their characters are curious, maybe they'll try investigating one of these plants. Bam, adventure hook.

I suppose you could alternately say, "Well, as everyone in this world knows, reactor technicians bravely stuck to their posts while the infection raged around them in order to shut down their reactors safely". So, three options really.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 05:33 PM
The pure should build an army of robots, which are the logical counter to zombies due to being impossible to infect, and are perfectly loyal.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 07:13 PM
Did someone already mention the "Zombie Survival Guide"? Might also be useful - and entertaining ;-)
It's basically a book which contains a lot of practical tips in case you actually face a Zombie Infection. I am also considering a Zombie RPG and find it quite useful.

http://www.amazon.com/Zombie-Survival-Guide-Complete-Protection/dp/1400049628

My brother's got that book. I should read it.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 07:18 PM
The pure should build an army of robots, which are the logical counter to zombies due to being impossible to infect, and are perfectly loyal.
Well, the idea is that the humans are struggling against the rising amounts of undead. Having an army of robots kind of kills the tension, does it not? Besides, they're spending most of their time trying to some up with a cure for the zombie infection. They don't have time to develop advanced enough robots, let alone build an army of them.

Mewtarthio
2009-12-06, 07:21 PM
The pure should build an army of robots, which are the logical counter to zombies due to being impossible to infect, and are perfectly loyal.

We haven't built robot armies in the modern industrialized world yet. Why would we be able to do so in the post-apocalyptic future?

chiasaur11
2009-12-06, 07:25 PM
We haven't built robot armies in the modern industrialized world yet. Why would we be able to do so in the post-apocalyptic future?

Because SCIENCE!

That's why.

(Besides, the military does use some robots already. Depending on how far in the future we're talking, tracked combat drones may be in some regular use.)

imp_fireball
2009-12-06, 07:25 PM
The Carriers: These look just like normal humans, with at worse maybe a slight cough or tendency to itch. They carry the virus and silently and presumably unknowingly spread it to others through contact and through the air. Their immunity is hereditary and thus families can be born 'immune' to the disease. If they are bitten, they can heal but the virus won't kill them. Though if they die they will be reanimated as a zombie. Some bloodlines of carriers are disposed towards coming back as Sentient Zombies.

Definitely the potential for dark humor here. When the players realize that they must be suspicious and kill their fellow 'un-zombified' man. :smallamused:

Stereotypically of hollywood, carriers would be whiny, stuck up bastards (thinking everyone else is 'weak' because they succumb to the virus). Many would be cowardly. Some would be painfully innocent, reverting to childish emotions to pull at the heart strings of the players and ultimately wall bang the inevitable human fallibility trope. And yet society will welcome them in ignorance. :smallbiggrin:

Volkov
2009-12-06, 07:26 PM
We haven't built robot armies in the modern industrialized world yet. Why would we be able to do so in the post-apocalyptic future?

We already possess many robot soldiers, as well as a large fleet of unmanned, armed vehicles. Armed Predator drones would defeat zombies with ease. Heck, aircraft render zombie apocalypses pitifully easy to defeat.

imp_fireball
2009-12-06, 07:28 PM
We already possess many robot soldiers, as well as a large fleet of unmanned, armed vehicles. Armed Predator drones would defeat zombies with ease. Heck, aircraft render zombie apocalypses pitifully easy to defeat.

I think it's just as fine to have the pure in black fascist uniforms with scary storm trooper masks. :smallbiggrin:

Warbots aren't new anyway. Computers are fine, but warbots?

Also, military versus zombies - only way military loses is if the leaders have a collective WIS score of three (or perhaps individually, the lowest wisdom score conceivable). Or if a bunch of other things happen, like fanatics welcoming the zombies or arguing that zombies shouldn't be killed and killing to make sure that zombies don't get killed, and so much other chaos that the military actually breaks apart since nobody is fighting humans anymore (even though fighting humans might leave you with a sicker feeling than fighting zombies and is as such a wall banger). Many zombie films have in this way, been wall bangers.

The other solution is zombie evolution (there will be those zombies that don't adapt however... the virus could be volatile and unpredictable in that you'd have some crazy hunter creatures and then some pathetic stiff legged shufflers). To the point that the military is aggressive against the zombie populace but loses to its heavy hitters and hunters.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 07:31 PM
I think it's just as fine to have the pure in black fascist uniforms with scary storm trooper masks. :smallbiggrin:

Warbots aren't new anyway. Computers are fine, but warbots?

In the not too distant future, the U.S and E.U would probably possess a mainly robotic military. South Korea's border would be guarded by a large army of sentry drone turrets and unmanned aircraft. And Britain's Skynet computer would destroy humanity when it learns what a Skynet is supposed to do.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 07:37 PM
I was more imagining the Pure to be a more benevolent version of the Enclave from the Fallout series. They have lots of technology, "legitimacy" from being what's left of the government (for what that's worth), and a desire to rebuild, but of all the factions, they're the least numerous. Heck, if the Survivors or Plagued (or those other factions, if I put them in), made a concentrated effort, they could probably kill the Pure themselves.

imp_fireball
2009-12-06, 07:41 PM
In the not too distant future, the U.S and E.U would probably possess a mainly robotic military. South Korea's border would be guarded by a large army of sentry drone turrets and unmanned aircraft.

But when everyone starts turning into zombies due to an airborne virus, which is difficult to control, even with martial law.... the leaders become separated by bunkers. Human contact and social values wither.

It'd be more interesting and for the sake of natural selection that the tough humans survive while the weak die off. This becomes so apparent that enough bravery is proven more effective than battle drones. All military theories about 'safety' get thrown through the roof (and that's the main motive for warbots in the first place, not because they are more effective).

After all, coping with horror is one of the major themes of zombie films (to the point of a wallbanger; 99% of the cast of characters are weaklings that go insane at the first sign of a dead body, end up killing each other out of rage, don't truly value what it means to be alive enough, etc.).


Heck, if the Survivors or Plagued (or those other factions, if I put them in), made a concentrated effort, they could probably kill the Pure themselves.

Which is what they wanna do right? :smallbiggrin:

Even if the pure are benevolent (which is very much a matter of perspective for everyone), politicians are still *******s. When I say that they wear 'fascist uniforms' I say that they look fascist. They might even have a fascist overriding policy. But they're the best hope of humanity thriving at the same time. :smallamused:

Solaris
2009-12-06, 07:43 PM
(Besides, the military does use some robots already. Depending on how far in the future we're talking, tracked combat drones may be in some regular use.)

Five to ten years.
Heheheh.

Hm. I've worked on something like this already, and like Zousha I agree that the plague should be... unpredictable.

A little bit of background for ya. In early 2011 a plague known as the Red Death began spreading through Asia. Symptoms included a shutdown of higher thought, increased aggression, high fever, vomiting blood, internal bleeding, easy bruising, and for nearly everyone infected death. The death toll was catastrophic, like nothing ever seen before. In many regions it reached 90% fatality, and it spread very quickly. A single cough could infect dozens. Despite quarantine efforts, panicked refugees spread the plague around the world. In 2012, the plague mutated. The infected began to turn into raging killing machines, berserkers known as zombies or simply as zeds. Outbreaks bubbled up in China and India as the swift and merciless monsters ate and infected just about everyone who survived the Red Death. A nuclear exchange followed, immolating a quarter of the world's people in the span of minutes. We haven't heard from anyone over the Atlantic since 2020. In the Americas and Australia, drastic measures of blockade and quarantine prevented any of the zeds from attacking until 2015. They even managed to contain the Red Death, sparing some 40% of the population. An outbreak in Tampa Bay, Florida, touched off the Great Panic. History may never recall all of what happened then, exactly, but what we do know is that many people in America and Mexico fled north. Few survived, as zed doesn't freeze until long after you and he doesn't need nearly as much food. When the National Guard proved ineffective at containing the infected, the Regular Army and Marine Corps were mustered in defense of the homeland for the first time since 1812. They were decimated. When the Red Death went airborne in 2017, it was all over. Eighty-nine percent of the world's pre-plague died, leaving only millions of immunes to face the hordes of zeds.
There weren't millions of living for long.
Before 2017, the conflict was known as World War Z. After 2017, it was the Dead War. The North American survivors have since regrouped in small, scattered enclaves linked by roaming scavengers known as Wastelanders. Wastelanders are the partially-infected, people who are twisted and cursed with murderous, cannibalistic impulses but retain enough of their humanity that they can control themselves. The best of them are the lone gunmen, solitary guardians and traders. The worst of them gather together in bands of reavers, worse than any zed because they're just as strong, just as fast, and still remember how to use guns. If you're lucky, they'll kill you before they eat the flesh off your bones and rape you to pieces. Most zeds by now are just crawlers, but a fresh one can make a jump ten feet long, five feet high from a standstill and rip a car door off its hinges. Most dangerously, fresher zeds vomit blood that spreads their mutant strain of the Red Death. The infection spreads in seconds, but it can take hours or even days for a healthy victim to turn - or it can take seconds. Zeds mostly ignore the infected, but they might eat them just like they might turn on each other. They're almost as unpredictable as desperate humans.


2011: The Red Death begins spreading through Asia. Symptoms include a shutdown of higher thought, increased aggression, high fever, vomiting blood, internal bleeding, easy bruising, and for nearly everyone infected death. The death toll is catastrophic, like nothing ever seen before. In many regions it reaches 90% fatality, and it spread very quickly. In the most developed countries, medical care and quarantine efforts could reduce the mortality rate down to 40%. A single cough could infect dozens. Despite quarantine efforts, panicked refugees spread the plague around the world.

2012: The Red Death mutates. The infected begin to turn into raging killing machines, berserkers known as zombies or simply as zeds. Outbreaks bubble up in China and India as the swift and merciless monsters eat and infect just about everyone who survived the Red Death. Those few immune to the Red Death are not immune to the Walking Death, but some have a partial resistance to it. It's confirmed that the Red Death is not viral in origin, but rather from a plasmodium. The first nuclear exchanges in Eurasia begin.

2015: The American blockade fails as an outbreak of the Walking Death hits Tampa Bay, FL. The Great Panic begins. The American military fights a losing battle against the zeds, constantly falling back. Many units are ordered to remain and fight to the last to protect a civilian stronghold in the hopes of splitting the zed forces. Chaos engulfs the land as riots and looting turn into swarms of zeds and desperate survivors. The government flees Washington DC, escaping to Hawaii and surrounding the island state with a powerful naval blockade.

2017: The Red Death (but not the mutant Walking Death) goes airborne, killing 89% of the world's pre-plague population. By the end of the year, World War Z has ended and the Dead War has begun.

2020: The last transmission from overseas. It's a desperate plea from a group of survivors starving to death in Ireland. Since then, no word has come from anywhere but enclaves in North America, the Caribbean, and some Pacific Islands. The oldest zeds have begun to rot, but the plague is far from over. Starving zeds turn on each other, cleaning out the worst areas themselves but leaving impossibly strong zeds roaming the wastelands.

2027: Present Day. Most zeds are old crawlers, but enough are still fast and agile that the wise avoid cities. The American Midwest and Northwest remain some of the hottest zones on the planet, while the South has mostly cooled. The last pockets of humanity have gathered into fortified, self-sufficient enclaves linked by dirigibles and armored trucks running on ethanol. The largest enclaves are maybe a hundred people apiece, but most average a couple dozen. Guns use recycled ammunition, while food and water are difficult to come by. Few are not hungry every day, and fewer still remember what fresh, clean water tastes like. The stench of rot and death pervades everything as clouds of radioactive fallout and ash scud across a dry, waterless sky. Few plants survive anymore, and fewer animals. The US Government-in-Exile is based in Hawaii, which escaped the worst of the plague, while Alaska is the military's staging ground for the eventual reclamation of the continent.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 07:45 PM
But when everyone starts turning into zombies due to an airborne virus, which is difficult to control, even with martial law.... the leaders become separated by bunkers. Human contact and social values wither.

It'd be more interesting and for the sake of natural selection that the tough humans survive while the weak die off. This becomes so apparent that enough bravery is proven more effective than battle drones. All military theories about 'safety' get thrown through the roof (and that's the main motive for warbots in the first place, not because they are more effective).

After all, coping with horror is one of the major themes of zombie films (to the point of a wallbanger; 99% of the cast of characters are weaklings that go insane at the first sign of a dead body, end up killing each other out of rage, don't truly value what it means to be alive enough, etc.).



Which is what they wanna do right? :smallbiggrin:
Unfourtunately for the zombies, the factories that make the robots would be controlled by robots, and the robots themselves would be largely autonomous. So this becomes a three way war, the machines decide that to end the zombie threat, they must wipe out both the zombies and mankind. This would be an awesome idea, now all we need to do is throw in aliens into the mix.

Of course, realistically, aliens would just glass the earth from orbit and then strip mine the barren, lifeless rock, where nothing, not even a virus, viroid, or prion, remains alive

Zom B
2009-12-06, 07:45 PM
Oh, I know this one! Again, coming way too late to the party, but I'd like to point you towards The Straight Dope: When the zombies take over, how long till the electricity fails? (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2165/when-the-zombies-take-over-how-long-till-the-electricity-fails).

Solaris
2009-12-06, 07:48 PM
Unfourtunately for the zombies, the factories that make the robots would be controlled by robots, and the robots themselves would be largely autonomous. So this becomes a three way war, the machines decide that to end the zombie threat, they must wipe out both the zombies and mankind. This would be an awesome idea, now all we need to do is throw in aliens into the mix.

Of course, realistically, aliens would just glass the earth from orbit and then strip mine the barren, lifeless rock, where nothing, not even a virus, viroid, or prion, remains alive

Make the aliens the source of the virus... then have it turn on them.
Bam. Aliens have to struggle to survive, too.

Xey42
2009-12-06, 07:48 PM
If your really going for benevolence from The Pure, have them be actively aware that a cure exists, and that it could turn mindless zombies into The Plagued (perhaps the plagued don't need human flesh, but merely enjoy super rare steaks?) or that makes them lose their aggression and able to perform menial, but helpful, tasks (think end of Shaun of the Dead). Perhaps they can only do it in incredibly small and time consuming processes, and they're now looking for a way to mass produce it? Thus, from their point of view, decimating zombies indiscriminately with predator drones is a horrible thing since they can, in essence, be reborn to make a start of a new society.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 07:48 PM
Oh, I know this one! Again, coming way too late to the party, but I'd like to point you towards The Straight Dope: When the zombies take over, how long till the electricity fails? (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2165/when-the-zombies-take-over-how-long-till-the-electricity-fails).

Never, because the machines run the power plants. And when Britain's skynet takes over, it's going to start building it's own power plants.

chiasaur11
2009-12-06, 07:48 PM
Five to ten years.
Heheheh.

Then yes. Deathbots.
Assuming there's at least one major political leader placing deathbots as even a minor funding priority, at least

Volkov
2009-12-06, 07:49 PM
Make the aliens the source of the virus... then have it turn on them.
Bam. Aliens have to struggle to survive, too.

virii are species specific. It's why your dog can't catch your cold. No earthly virus would be able to touch an species that has never once shared a common ancestor with any form of life on earth.

Solaris
2009-12-06, 07:55 PM
virii are species specific. It's why your dog can't catch your cold. No earthly virus would be able to touch an species that has never once shared a common ancestor with any form of life on earth.

Thank you High School Biology.
Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to explain the zombies with earthly viruses, now isn't it?

Volkov
2009-12-06, 07:57 PM
Thank you High School Biology.
Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to explain the zombies with earthly viruses, now isn't it?

Trying to infect a creature that may or may not even possess a carbon based biology with anything but the most generalist of Bacteria is fool-hardy at best. If its a silicon based creature, first off if it inhales oxygen, then it's going to be exhaling silicon dioxide, or sand, meaning their conversations will always leave a gritty mess, secondly, in that case, no micro-organism would be able to do anything at all to them.

Solaris
2009-12-06, 08:01 PM
Trying to infect a creature that may or may not even possess a carbon based biology with anything but the most generalist of Bacteria is fool-hardy at best. If its a silicon based creature, first off if it inhales oxygen, then it's going to be exhaling silicon dioxide, or sand, meaning their conversations will always leave a gritty mess, secondly, in that case, no micro-organism would be able to do anything at all to them.

Yes. This is, of course, assuming a non-generalist source of organic life. Were these xenos seeded from a similar origin to us or simply came to similar conclusions we did to achieve organic life, then their super-bug might well turn on them after mutating in Earth's biosphere. It's no less plausible than aliens showing up in Earth's neighborhood at the same time as a zombie apocalypse.
Now are you gonna stop trying to lecture me on stuff that's high school level biology so we can get back to the zombies tearing pitiful humans to shreds?

Stormthorn
2009-12-06, 08:01 PM
I know that technically speaking, if humanity were to suddenly die off, the nuclear power plants and reactors and the like would melt down, causing a lot of Chernobyl-style clouds of radiation that would kill off most life all over the world. How do I avoid that happening?

You could say that the engineers were smart enough to activate failsafes before they all died/got eaten.


It's why your dog can't catch your cold.
But they can, and do, mutate to act cross-species. A good example would be Influenza A.
Here is a handy-dandy chart (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Spanish_flu_death_chart.png)showing what can happen if an unexpected jump occurs.
Although a disease can be a lot weaker in the new species too.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 08:04 PM
Yes. This is, of course, assuming a non-generalist source of organic life. Were these xenos seeded from a similar origin to us or simply came to similar conclusions we did to achieve organic life, then their super-bug might well turn on them after mutating in Earth's biosphere. It's no less plausible than aliens showing up in Earth's neighborhood at the same time as a zombie apocalypse.
Now are you gonna stop trying to lecture me on stuff that's high school level biology so we can get back to the zombies tearing pitiful humans to shreds?

Only to be beaten by robots, who in turn are being beaten by sand exhaling aliens.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 08:04 PM
If your really going for benevolence from The Pure, have them be actively aware that a cure exists, and that it could turn mindless zombies into The Plagued (perhaps the plagued don't need human flesh, but merely enjoy super rare steaks?) or that makes them lose their aggression and able to perform menial, but helpful, tasks (think end of Shaun of the Dead). Perhaps they can only do it in incredibly small and time consuming processes, and they're now looking for a way to mass produce it? Thus, from their point of view, decimating zombies indiscriminately with predator drones is a horrible thing since they can, in essence, be reborn to make a start of a new society.

I said more benevolent version of the Enclave. The Enclave are genocidal creeps who believe that they need to purge all mutants (which to them is everyone who isn't Enclave) in order to reclaim America. The idea is that the Pure aren't out to massacre the Survivors and even the Plagued along with the rest of the zombies, but there's very little trust, since they know that even a Survivor might be able to infect them, and there are too few of them to risk that. Xenophobia is a strong vibe with the Pure, and part of the background is the fact that the Pure are now allowing Survivors and even Plagued to build shantytowns outside their Enclaves, and giving them things like food, medicene and weaponry in exchange for their services. They're basically hiring the Survivors and Plagued as mercenaries, since there aren't enough of them to launch a reclamation campaign against the zombies without taking irreconcilable casualties. Naturally, some of the Pure think this is a bad idea, that it'll increase the risk of infection or that the Survivors and Plagued will spontaneously go zombie and massacre them. And some of them are just as bad as the Enclave in Fallout, believing themselves to be the only true humans left, and all others, Survivor, Plagued or Zombie, must be destroyed.

And their attempts to make a cure so far work too well. Any zombie they've tried to cure has basically dissolved into a puddle of steaming goo, and the few Survivors who volunteered to test it went into shock as the cure attacked their infected system. They're currently using it as a bioweapon, and some of the more bigoted Pure still jokingly call it "the cure."

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 08:05 PM
virii are species specific. It's why your dog can't catch your cold. No earthly virus would be able to touch an species that has never once shared a common ancestor with any form of life on earth.

Really? I thought some diseases like Ebola and stuff came from infected monkeys that passed the disease onto humans. And what about things like swine and bird flu?

Volkov
2009-12-06, 08:06 PM
Really? I thought some diseases like Ebola and stuff came from infected monkeys that passed the disease onto humans. And what about things like swine and bird flu?

Ahem, Swine flu doesn't actually infect pigs, and Ebola is a bacterium. And a carbon-based alien would share maybe one or two genes, and that would be from random coincidence at best. At worst, none of their genes would be shared with us. A silicon based life form would be impossible to infect with our diseases period. No microbe could make the evolutionary leap required to make that big a jump.

Solaris
2009-12-06, 08:08 PM
Ahem, Swine flu doesn't actually infect pigs, and Ebola is a bacterium.

Yes. That's why I'm a fan of non-viral zombie plagues.

Zom B
2009-12-06, 08:08 PM
Thank you High School Biology.
Unfortunately, it's rather difficult to explain the zombies with earthly viruses, now isn't it?

Hmm, well, who says that the zombie virus has to be a virus at all? Your alternatives are:
Bacteria, which are comparatively easy to control unless it is resistant to antibiotics/heat/cold.
Prions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prions) (Proteins Gone Wild) like Mad Cow Disease (Spongiform Encephalopathy) are near-impossible to kill and there are no known cures for them. MCD, at least, is furthered from the feeding of a species' neural tissue to other members of the species ("Hey, don't zombies do that?"), and the loss of brain tissue (maybe that's why they eat more brains, because their bodies can rebuild lost tissue with it or something) causes the victim to act irrationally, possibly violent.

Another third option is a bacteriophage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage) that targets any bacteria it comes across and turns it into a zombie-causing bacteria. That way, zombie-ism is still carried by bacteria, but isolating a cure is difficult because it would have to be effective across all known species of bacteria. You couldn't make an anti-virus to target the bacteriophage because it can infect bacteria anywhere, including in animals, on doorknobs, and even on food.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 08:10 PM
Hmm, well, who says that the zombie virus has to be a virus at all? Your alternatives are:
Bacteria, which are comparatively easy to control unless it is resistant to antibiotics/heat/cold.
Prions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prions) (Proteins Gone Wild) like Mad Cow Disease (Spongiform Encephalopathy) are near-impossible to kill and there are no known cures for them. MCD, at least, is furthered from the feeding of a species' neural tissue to other members of the species ("Hey, don't zombies do that?"), and the loss of brain tissue (maybe that's why they eat more brains, because their bodies can rebuild lost tissue with it or something) causes the victim to act irrationally, possibly violent.

Another third option is a bacteriophage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage) that targets any bacteria it comes across and turns it into a zombie-causing bacteria. That way, zombie-ism is still carried by bacteria, but isolating a cure is difficult because it would have to be effective across all known species of bacteria. You couldn't make an anti-virus to target the bacteriophage because it can infect bacteria anywhere, including in animals, on doorknobs, and even on food.

Or it could be caused by parasites. Many of which can exert amazing degrees of control over their host. But they aren't as infectious as a microbe at this task.

Zom B
2009-12-06, 08:12 PM
Or it could be caused by parasites. Many of which can exert amazing degrees of control over their host. But they aren't as infectious as a microbe at this task.


Cracked.com: 5 Scientific Reasons a Zombie Apocalypse Could Actually Happen (http://www.cracked.com/article_15643_5-scientific-reasons-zombie-apocalypse-could-actually-happen.html)

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 08:13 PM
Ahem, Swine flu doesn't actually infect pigs, and Ebola is a bacterium.
Really?! Then why do they call it swine flu? And why is Ebola called "the Ebola virus?"

Volkov
2009-12-06, 08:15 PM
Really?! Then why do they call it swine flu? And why is Ebola called "the Ebola virus?"

Because the media is somewhat mind bogglingly stupid. Really, the swine flu should be called "The Spanish Flu's whimpy kid brother."

Stormthorn
2009-12-06, 08:16 PM
Ebola is a bacterium

It is not. You just shot your credibility in the foot. It is a hemoraghic virus. Just like Hantavirus. well, not just like, but similar. Different virus, same bloody fluids.


Because the media is somewhat mind bogglingly stupid. Really, the swine flu should be called "The Spanish Flu's whimpy kid brother."

I suppose that description fits. They are very closly related, both being H1N1 (at least, im pretty sure we now know the 1918 pandemic was H1N1)

Zom B
2009-12-06, 08:17 PM
Really?! Then why do they call it swine flu?

From Wikipedia:

Swine influenza (also called Pig influenza, swine flu, hog flu and pig flu) is an infection by any one of several types of swine influenza virus. Swine influenza virus (SIV) or S-OIV (swine-origin influenza virus) is any strain of the influenza family of viruses that is endemic in pigs.[2] As of 2009, the known SIV strains include influenza C and the subtypes of influenza A known as H1N1, H1N2, H3N1, H3N2, and H2N3.


And why is Ebola called "the Ebola virus?"

According to the first five words on Wikipedia's Ebola page, "Ebola is the virus Ebolavirus"

Volkov
2009-12-06, 08:21 PM
It is not. You just shot your credibility in the foot.



I suppose that description fits. They are very closly related, both being H1N1 (at least, im pretty sure we now know the 1918 pandemic was H1N1)

Ah it is a virus, the pictures I see of it resemble bacteria. Perhaps I should stick to Etmology, Ornithology, and Herpetology no?

Solaris
2009-12-06, 08:23 PM
According to the first five words on Wikipedia's Ebola page, "Ebola is the virus Ebolavirus"

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/spb/mnpages/dispages/Ebola.htm
From a more reputable source. Yes. It's a virus. I can't believe I didn't catch that.

Regardless, I'd prefer a plasmodium.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 08:25 PM
Now I'm all confused! I don't know what to put in and what to throw out! :smalleek:

Stormthorn
2009-12-06, 08:41 PM
Herpetology
Why doesnt my l\Leapard Gecko chew his food? He just picks the crickets up, crunches once or twice, and swallows them. Sometimes the swallowing takes as long as the catching.

Now I'm all confused! I don't know what to put in and what to throw out! :smalleek:

How about the zombie virus was origionaly a disease that infected...chipmunks...and no one noticed since no one cares about them anyhow.
A deadly strain made the unlikely, but not impossible, leap to humans.
It then went airborn.
It did not advance quickly, since it didnt need to. It is very hard to contain disease outbreaks. This is what gave the Pure time to escape and the nuclear reactor techs time to put their affairs in order.
Multiple strains sprung up.
One made you very sick. If you were lucky enough to survive, you didnt get sick again. This strain was airborn. Probably some physical changes, since this is a strain of zombie virus. First generation survivors probably suffered brain damage, tumors, and muscular growth. Later generation survivors are natural immune and dont get the disease and so dont have these.
The other strain is less likely to kill you but cell growth spirals, severe brain damage sets in, grossly deformed musculature develops, and apoptosis stops.

This results in catatonics who fly into rages frequently and experiance out-of-control impulses to consume fresh meat who have great strength who never naturaly age but rather rot and are covered in mutations and tumors.
Why they dont eat each other is unknown. Its just a show, dont read too criticaly into it.

just a suggestion to get the thread back on track.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 08:47 PM
Why doesnt my l\Leapard Gecko chew his food? He just picks the crickets up, crunches once or twice, and swallows them. Sometimes the swallowing takes as long as the catching.



No extant reptile possesses the power of chewing. The only reptiles that did so were Ornithsichian dinosaurs.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 09:15 PM
Not really helping. :smalleek:

Stormthorn
2009-12-06, 09:19 PM
Assuming a slow spread, i suggest that power in the US be divided into three zones, randomly scattered all about.

Class 1 zones: The Pure have their own power supplies. Amazingly advanced geothermal and solar plants along with experimental fission/fusion hybrid technology gives them all the power they need with enough left over to run the LHC several times over.

Class 2 zones: The Survivors have turned the most self-sufficient power plants in the US into fortress-towns that supply fairly steady power to the survivor-heavy region around each plant.

Class 3 zones: The techs that stayed at their terminals with the doors welded shut and the bureacrats that planned the system to keep power up as long as possible did their jobs well. Random sections of the grid ranging from entire small towns to single blocks remain functional all over the US. The Pure feed excess power into these intact grids as a form of charity to the otherwise untrusted Survivors. The result is that any given city black has a small but steady chance of recieving power for a while until the Pure move on to power the next block over.

Putting this system into the game you could assume that the Pure and major survivor settlements have power while whatever place the PCs are in has a 10% chance of recieveing 12 hours of power. Re-roll every 12 hours or every time the survivors travel overland to a new location.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 09:22 PM
That's an idea. But then will there be wastelands for the PCs to drive through?

Stormthorn
2009-12-06, 09:27 PM
That's an idea. But then will there be wastelands for the PCs to drive through?

Depends upon the setting.

Also, driving will be a luxury, as gas becomes something that requires raiding zombie occupied fuel stations and refineries.

Also, Survivors could still farm the land, and could now grow what they want in whatever amounts they need wherever available as agri-buisness and property rights are out.
But farming would be a highly skilled and hazardus occupation. Your farmhands would all be trained snipers and the whole community would donate guns and ammo to keep you alive so they can keep eating. If you didnt have a "two classes per race" scheme it could be its own combat class.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 09:30 PM
That's an idea. But then will there be wastelands for the PCs to drive through?

Yes, but don't count on zombies staying there. With no food, the zombies would end up going hungry and dying. Of course, don't forget the evil robots. This would be the perfect opportunity for our war-bots to rise up against mankind.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 09:48 PM
Depends upon the setting.

Also, driving will be a luxury, as gas becomes something that requires raiding zombie occupied fuel stations and refineries.

Also, Survivors could still farm the land, and could now grow what they want in whatever amounts they need wherever available as agri-buisness and property rights are out.
But farming would be a highly skilled and hazardus occupation. Your farmhands would all be trained snipers and the whole community would donate guns and ammo to keep you alive so they can keep eating. If you didnt have a "two classes per race" scheme it could be its own combat class.

Hunters could do that. They may not be the best fighters, but they can snipe better than anyone. The reason they rely on stealth is to protect themselves and conserve their limited resources. They can't afford to pull out an assault rifle and start mowing down zombies like the Pure do, so they rely on not being seen and headshots in order to take down the enemy.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 09:53 PM
I don't see the zombies getting into South Korea at all, as their border is already guarded by robotic sentry turrets, who would easily gun down any zombies who dared to approach. So that could become a safe haven. Those bastards at Australia would be safe, the wildlife there is so deadly a zombie wouldn't dare set foot in it. "brainsssssssss....wait why are the cuddly koalas attacking me arrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhh!!! *dies*"

Solaris
2009-12-06, 10:02 PM
I don't see the zombies getting into South Korea at all, as their border is already guarded by robotic sentry turrets, who would easily gun down any zombies who dared to approach. So that could become a safe haven. Those bastards at Australia would be safe, the wildlife there is so deadly a zombie wouldn't dare set foot in it. "brainsssssssss....wait why are the cuddly koalas attacking me arrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhh!!! *dies*"

Because there aren't any approaches to South Korea by sea, nor are there US troops flying in and out pretty regularly.
Not 100% safe, but certainly better off than most other countries.

Volkov
2009-12-06, 10:07 PM
Because there aren't any approaches to South Korea by sea, nor are there US troops flying in and out pretty regularly.
Not 100% safe, but certainly better off than most other countries.
Of course, South Korea is likely to be taken over by robots. Them and Japan.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-06, 10:10 PM
Knock it off with the robots! There are no robotic soldiers in this game!

Volkov
2009-12-06, 10:13 PM
Knock it off with the robots! There are no robotic soldiers in this game!

Hmm? So the robotics industry ceased to be? I find that unlikely, the U.S is already building the MARS robotic soldier. Which will replace the SWORD, as the SWORD was pointing it's gun at the humans watching the demonstration, and the controller wasn't doing it. Methinks the british Skynet computer is behind this.

Stormthorn
2009-12-07, 01:13 AM
I vote than any post pertaining robots in a manner not consistant with the wishes of the OP be ignored, save this one, as it is more of a meta-robot post.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-07, 06:17 PM
So...is the idea of having Carriers and people who are completely immune (can't remember the suggested name) a good idea? What would their "classes" be? Here's sort of an explanation of the original ones I had:

Soldier: These are the backbone of the Pure's reclamation efforts. They're combat specialists whose environmental suits have been upgraded into a suit of armor. They favor automatic weapons or grenades, and are basically suited to a "spray-and-pray" style of fighting. Their armor makes them durable, but still vulnerable to infection if it's breached, so they try to avoid melee combat with the enemy, prefering to attack from range.

Scientist: This is more of a catch-all term for Pure characters who aren't about brute force, since "civilians" among the Pure really never leave their enclaves barring the possibility of the enclave being breached. Scientists have some combat training, usually in sidearms, but their real strength lies in their technological prowess and their medical skills. Scientists can do things like hack into computers, heal injuries, and even have the ability to use low-powered bioweapons.

Hunter: Hunters are the combat specialists of the Survivors. They specialize in sniping and stealth, embodying the Survivor ideal that the best defense against the zombies is for them not to know you're there. They avoid direct engagement at almost any cost, since they don't have protection like the armor of the Soldier, and prefer solitary headshots, picking off the zombies one by one, if they can't avoid fighting.

Scavenger: These characters embody the other Survivor ethic of living off the land and whatever the last civilization left behind. They know how to recycle ammo to work in a different sort of gun than what it was made for, hot-wire an abandonded car so they can drive from place to place, or rig up traps with stuff they find on the road. A well-prepared Scavenger is basically kind of like McGyver.

Ghoul: The Plagued are both mainly combat oriented, but the Ghoul is definately the stronger of the two Plagued classes. Ghouls are strong and tough, the only ones capable of charging straight at a horde of zombies and living to brag about it afterwards. They usually favor weapons that rely on brute force, like bludgeoning weapons, and if fighting unarmed either rely on heavy, clobbering-style punches or simply pulling the zombies apart. It's believed that they derrive their great strength from consuming muscular biomatter, hence the nickname "Ghoul."

Vampire: Though both of the Plagued classes excel in melee combat, the Vampire relies more on speed and finesse. Rather than wading in and taking the attack like a Ghoul does, they dance around the horde, delivering well-aimed skewers and strikes, and leaving their enemies flailing in the air they just left. They prefer weapons that do a lot of damage if you know where to aim, like a rapier or spear, and when fighting unarmed rely on a more kung-fu-like style compared to the relatively unsophisticated style of the ghoul. As the name suggests, it's rumored that the speed and agility of the Vampire is because they rely solely on blood for sustenance.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-09, 04:10 PM
So...should I just scrap the idea?

Randel
2009-12-09, 04:52 PM
I had suggested the Carrier and the Cleansed types of people (the Cleansed are the ones whos immune systems can produce antibodies for the plague)


The Lone Wolf: The better side of the Carriers. These people are immune to the plague but spread it with them as they travel. They are almost indistinguishable from a survivor aside from their apparent immunity to the plague (and most diseases closely related to the plague) and the fact that those around them tend to die off due to infection. Lone Wolves tend to work alone and avoid contact with other people, either out of knowledge of their Carrier status or just the fear of getting too close to another person and losing them like so many others. They can work in groups with others, but getting intimate or spreading blood to another will likely cause a fatal infection.


The Necromancer: These people are the villainous side of the Carriers. Their immunity to the plague is hereditary an many get the impression that they are 'blessed' and are destined to repopulate the earth. Necromancers often study the effects of the zombified and due to their immunity to the virus can get close enough to manipulate them. With the special use of voice control, body language, and the 'aura' of the plague about them, a necromancer can make themselves practically invisible to unintelligent zombies and even manipulate them into doing their bidding. While there are 'good' necromancers who are willing to work with the surviving humans to eliminate the zombie population, there are many others who use their power to instill fear or obedience humans. There are stories of some who 'protect' settlements of people from zombies while demanding 'virgin sacrifices'... exactly what these virgins are exactly like varies from story to story but its universally understood that they die soon afterwards.



The Healer: Once a person realizes that they are a Cleansed and as such carry the precious antibodies that can cure the plague and destroy the virus, they often will used their special nature to help others. Depending on their blood type, they can donate blood to another person and spread their immunity to them through their antibodies. They can only safely donate so much blood per week and need liquids and vitamins to replenish afterwards. Notably, a person 'cured' by blood donated by a Cleansed can try to donate blood to cure another person but its never quite as effective.

The Hunted: These people carry inside them the antibodies to cure the plague. However, they are certain that if they start to cure people openly then they will be hunted down by those who would wish to drain them of blood for their own purposes. Even if this is not entirely the case (since rational scientists would try above all else to keep them alive) a Hunted would prefer not to take that risk and only reveal their Cleansed nature to people they would trust with their lives.

Archpaladin Zousha
2009-12-09, 05:55 PM
I think these are interesting ideas, but the classes aren't so much divided between heroic/villainous archetypes as much as they are between strength/skill archetypes. Only one where this dichotomy isn't exactly true is with the Plagued, since the only real difference there is in combat style.