Dexter vs. CSI

[Serpentine]

Dexter moves to Las Vegas, and is transfered to their CSI unit. Lets assume he spends a year settling down - no sudden disappearances that happen to start at the same time as he moved in.
How long would it take CSI to find him out?

One point to consider, which I only just thought of: He won't have the ocean to dump bodies into, so he'll have to come up with something else.

edit: TV Dexter. Though I'm happy for book Dexter to be discussed.

[Dienekes]

I would say that Dex is a resourceful kinda guy, and it is possible that he would eternally evade the CSI folk, his crime scenes are spotless, he with a few exceptions has no attachment to the victims leaving no motive to go by. Getting rid of the bodies could be a problem but he'd probably figure out some way to do it if he had to (or if necessary just move to somewhere else, but that ruins the scenario)

I would say that, but this last season shows that the family is making him sloppy, and far too inconvenienced. He makes grave mistakes, strikes too fast, becomes too easily agitated, and has distracting conversations with voices in his head. Meaning he'd probably screw up somehow.

If we're going back to Dex season 1 I'd say he had a chance to keep working under their noses and would know to flee when the time came. Now? Who knows. I will say that since he'd be working with the CSI people, this would mean that he would have a rather large advantage to know how to manipulate the events and/or know when they're getting too close.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Dexter moves to Las Vegas, and is transfered to their CSI unit. Lets assume he spends a year settling down - no sudden disappearances that happen to start at the same time as he moved in.
How long would it take CSI to find him out?

One point to consider, which I only just thought of: He won't have the ocean to dump bodies into, so he'll have to come up with something else.

Quite simply? They probably wouldn't. The same tactics that make him virtually undetectable in Miami can apply just as equally in Las Vegas...wait, do you mean show Dexter or book Dexter? I ask because book Dexter has never even been sniffed out by the police while...well that was almost the entire plot of season 2.

[chiasaur11]

He probably could. After all, he's a success...

In Miami.

(YEEEEAAAAAHHHHH).

[valadil]

CSI uses more far fetched pseudo science techniques. I don't think Dexter could keep up with all the image enhancements and 359.* IP addresses.

[Serpentine]

Quite simply? They probably wouldn't. The same tactics that make him virtually undetectable in Miami can apply just as equally in Las Vegas...wait, do you mean show Dexter or book Dexter? I ask because book Dexter has never even been sniffed out by the police while...well that was almost the entire plot of season 2.Good point. TV Dexter. Haven't met book Dexter. Is it true that
he's the son of a/the devil or somesuch?

[Dienekes]

Good point. TV Dexter. Haven't met book Dexter. Is it true that
he's the son of a/the devil or somesuch?

The dark passenger is, though it wasn't called the Devil. In this book he finds that out it also leaves him, allowing him to realize that he does not have a killer instinct without it. Also, the 2 kids are being trained to be the next Dexters. Yeah, it was as odd as it sounded. Personally I think the Dexter books kept getting worse, though I have heard the last one was pretty good but I more or less stopped reading after finishing the one described above.


CSI uses more far fetched pseudo science techniques. I don't think Dexter could keep up with all the image enhancements and 359.* IP addresses.

Except they need evidence to function and Dex is the master of getting rid of evidence (unless it's plot important that he does not get rid of it of course). The only person who has gotten close to uncovering who Dex is was Doakes and that was only because Doakes always thought Dexter was a freak.

[Serpentine]

The dark passenger is, though it wasn't called the Devil. In this book he finds that out it also leaves him, allowing him to realize that he does not have a killer instinct without it. Also, the 2 kids are being trained to be the next Dexters. Yeah, it was as odd as it sounded. Personally I think the Dexter books kept getting worse, though I have heard the last one was pretty good but I more or less stopped reading after finishing the one described above.So the Dark Passenger, which is metaphorical in the TV series, is literal in the books?
...
I can't decide whether that's cool or tacky. Maybe just different.
Cuz I hate when there's a bunch of spoilers and no explanation, we're talking about Dexter book spoilers, and differences with the show.

[Dienekes]

So the Dark Passenger, which is metaphorical in the TV series, is literal in the books?
...
I can't decide whether that's cool or tacky. Maybe just different.
Cuz I hate when there's a bunch of spoilers and no explanation, we're talking about Dexter book spoilers, and differences with the show.

More Dex book discussion
Yeah, in the first book it sort of talks to him. But I always thought of the Dark Passenger being a figurative voice in his head or urge. It's not a totally uncommon literary device. And then it was the son of the devil and I read on in confusion.

[smellie_hippie]

Dexter avoiding CSI vegas? Absolutely..... under current administration.

Dexter avoiding Grissom? For a long time, but eventually nabbed unless he flees the scene for a foreign country.

[Serpentine]

I suppose an important starting point is: how could Dexter dispose of the bodies in the middle of a desert? Is under a grave his best option?

[pita]

I suppose an important starting point is: how could Dexter dispose of the bodies in the middle of a desert? Is under a grave his best option?
It still won't get found out by CSI.

I'd rather have Dexter VS Horatio, where Horatio finds a body in a boxing bag. It's also Miami, so no relocation necessary.

[Trai]

I don't personally watch CSI and I haven't yet gotten the chance to watch Dexter, but I'm working on that. I have read the first three Dexter books, and I'm hoping to read the fourth soon. To clarify the book discussion above:

Yes, it was metaphorical in the beginning-- in the very first book, it just seemed to be the way Dex rationalized his sociopathy and his urges.

In the second book, he started referring to it as a sort of demon, and things got a little weirder. In the third book, things took more of a turn-- it's not the son of a devil, per se, but of the god Moloch. It's some kind of fragmented piece of him?

There's no explanation as to how it came to Earth, just that it found that it liked to lodge itself in creatures and compel them to kill. This becomes easier when humans enter the scene. This evolves into Moloch worship, and this whole bizarre plot of the third book.

And yes, Rita's kids are mini-sociopaths, but it looks as though Cody is more than Astor; Astor at least appears to have emotions still. Cody, on the other hand, kills a guy who's going to hurt Dex and Astor at the end of book three.

I reviewed the first three books on my blog, and the review for the third one has a longer explanation of the whole supernatural bit.

[pita]

As someone who's read the books and watched the show, I think the show is much better. Watch the show. It Awesome.
Also, don't watch CSI, watch The Wire.
However, Dexter would completely own everybody on The Wire, except for possibly McNulty. So his competition has to be with Detective Sue, AKA Horatio/Grissom.

[BSW]

CSI uses more far fetched pseudo science techniques. I don't think Dexter could keep up with all the image enhancements and 359.* IP addresses.

Pseudoscience nothing... CSI uses bloody witchcraft. Virtually nothing that they do on that show is even remotely possible with the level of accuracy that they claim or in the time frame that they do it in. Hell, a good deal of what they do wouldn't pass the Daubert or Frye tests even if it is possible and therefore wouldn't be admissible in court anyway.

<sigh> I hate the CSI effect so much.


I suppose an important starting point is: how could Dexter dispose of the bodies in the middle of a desert? Is under a grave his best option?

No. In fact, disposing of a body under a grave in a proper graveyard is quite likely to get you caught. Graveyards tend to have caretakers and other security personnel who general frown upon people digging in the graveyard at night. I'm not saying it's exactly high security and a person can probably get away with hiding a body in a graveyard a couple of times... but it's risky enough that someone who regularly needs to dispose of bodies does not want to rely on that as his goto solution.

Truthfully, the fact that Vegas is in the middle of a desert isn't really that big a disadvantage, as far as body disposal goes. Dexter just needs to get a vehicle that's good for driving off road in the Nevada desert. Then, just drive a good distance into the desert and bury the body in a shallow grave at a random location. The chances of anyone actually finding the body is pretty low.



Really, my opinion of who wins this confrontation comes down to which show's forensic tech is in effect. If we use Dexter's forensics (which treats forensic science in a more realistic fashion), then I don't think they'd ever be able to catch him barring some monumental bad luck on Dexter's part (such as getting caught red handed). Dexter, as a trained forensic tech himself is extremely good at eliminating any forensic evidence that could actually lead back to him. He wears gloves and clothes to prevent blood spatter on his clothes, sets up a full kill room to eliminate blood spatter to the environment.

On the other hand, if we use CSI's forensics (which, as I said earlier... is magic) then I'm sure they'd use some sort of bizarre and impossible technique to narrow it down to the guy that they recognized (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NarrowedItDownToTheGuyIRecognize).

[warty goblin]

Truthfully, the fact that Vegas is in the middle of a desert isn't really that big a disadvantage, as far as body disposal goes. Dexter just needs to get a vehicle that's good for driving off road in the Nevada desert. Then, just drive a good distance into the desert and bury the body in a shallow grave at a random location. The chances of anyone actually finding the body is pretty low.

It's CSI. The body is found in the first three minutes. Then there is a groan inducing pun.

[comicshorse]

Also, don't watch CSI, watch The Wire.

Doesn't that go without saying :smallsmile:


However, Dexter would completely own everybody on The Wire, except for possibly McNulty

Nah McNulty has good instincts but just isn't cunning enough NOW Lester Freamon Vs Dexter would be a contest

[BSW]

It's CSI. The body is found in the first three minutes. Then there is a groan inducing pun.

True enough. Like I said... Grissom is witch.

[chiasaur11]

True enough. Like I said... Grissom is witch.

A science witch.

[warty goblin]

True enough. Like I said... Grissom is witch.

No, see the bodies are found in the first two minutes by people doing something they probably shouldn't be. My bet, for maximum stalker movie lampshading is teens having sex.

In the next sixty seconds we get a panning shot, at night, of the scene, with lots of blinky lights, our first proper look at the bodies.

Then, only then, can we have our one-liner.

[nanobot_swarm]

I suppose an important starting point is: how could Dexter dispose of the bodies in the middle of a desert? Is under a grave his best option?

Chop up the body into small pieces in a bathtub, so excess gore ad blood can be flushed down the drain, place pieces in separate trashbags filled with actual trash, dump trashbags in random dumpsters across the city.

[Lamech]

So I've watched part of dexter once, and a couple CSI episodes. Is there any reason Dexter can't kill the CSI peeps? Also from what I've seen of CSI, even if caught Dexter could just be like "Hey defense attorney, so I also do forensics, and, well... I'm not sure how to put this, but the CSI team doesn't seem to understand science. At all. And they're actions seem legally questionable." (Also barring killing them couldn't he just observe them for a few days and get them arrested for every law they break/ignore? Or get them fired for not actually understanding science?)

[pita]

He's not allowed to kill them under his code. He didn't kill the guy who found him out in season 2 either.

[BSW]

No, see the bodies are found in the first two minutes by people doing something they probably shouldn't be. My bet, for maximum stalker movie lampshading is teens having sex.

In the next sixty seconds we get a panning shot, at night, of the scene, with lots of blinky lights, our first proper look at the bodies.

Then, only then, can we have our one-liner.

I maintain that these random passersby who find corpse in the first place are in fact part of Grissom's witchcraft. :smalltongue:

Now, Dexter is pretty good about not leaving forensic evidence on the bodies. So, I'm not entirely convinced that it would even matter if the body was found. The CSI team would have to use some sort of absurd magical forensic technique (which they often do) to find him.


So I've watched part of dexter once, and a couple CSI episodes. Is there any reason Dexter can't kill the CSI peeps? Also from what I've seen of CSI, even if caught Dexter could just be like "Hey defense attorney, so I also do forensics, and, well... I'm not sure how to put this, but the CSI team doesn't seem to understand science. At all. And they're actions seem legally questionable." (Also barring killing them couldn't he just observe them for a few days and get them arrested for every law they break/ignore? Or get them fired for not actually understanding science?)

Dexter won't kill the CSI people because they're not killers themselves. His Code is pretty rigid about that.

As far as the forensics defense goes... yes. In the real world you'd be right. Much of what the CSI people call "forensics" wouldn't pass the requisite legal tests for admissibility in court (the Frye test in Dexter's home turf, probably Daubert in Las Vegas). While this strategy is perfectly viable for avoiding prison... the problem is... well, even if they can't prove legal guilt, they've still figured out that Dexter is a serial killer. Once that fact is known to LEOs, they will watch him closely from that day forward. He'll never get away with another murder because the police will always be watching him and waiting for him to slip up. For Dexter, that's an existence that's almost as bad as prison.

You also asked if he could get the CSI's arrested based upon observing them breaking/ignoring laws. The short answer is "no." The unlawful actions taken by TV cops usually are not illegal in the same sense that robbing a bank is illegal. Rather, their unlawful actions are violations of a suspect's constitutional rights. When this happens, the remedy is suppression of evidence, not charges against the officer. In order to get one of the CSI crew arrested, he would have to observe them committing an actual crime and would then have to convince a DA to file charges. That's pretty unlikely.

[pita]

Couldn't he get one of them fired for repeatedly breaking the rules?

[Winthur]

Dexter doesn't stand a ghost of a chance. He wouldn't survive for even a week. Check the spoilers to see why.
http://asset.soup.io/asset/0499/2715_3900.jpeg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4549/125577725916.jpg
I say that once CSI smell something, it would be time for Dexter...
*glasses*
...to run away to his laboratory.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I say that once CSI smell something, it would be time for Dexter...
*glasses*
...to run away to his laboratory.

Bad luck and extreme misfortune will in habit your pathetic little soul for all eternity.

[Winthur]

Bad luck and extreme misfortune will in habit your pathetic little soul for all eternity.

I don't think so. After all, the laws of chance...
*glasses*
...allowed me the fortune of pulling off another lucky pun.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Yes, it was metaphorical in the beginning-- in the very first book, it just seemed to be the way Dex rationalized his sociopathy and his urges.

In the second book, he started referring to it as a sort of demon, and things got a little weirder. In the third book, things took more of a turn-- it's not the son of a devil, per se, but of the god Moloch. It's some kind of fragmented piece of him?

There's no explanation as to how it came to Earth, just that it found that it liked to lodge itself in creatures and compel them to kill. This becomes easier when humans enter the scene. This evolves into Moloch worship, and this whole bizarre plot of the third book.

And yes, Rita's kids are mini-sociopaths, but it looks as though Cody is more than Astor; Astor at least appears to have emotions still. Cody, on the other hand, kills a guy who's going to hurt Dex and Astor at the end of book three.

I reviewed the first three books on my blog, and the review for the third one has a longer explanation of the whole supernatural bit.

I don't know if you've read the fourth book or not yet (I have) but the Dark Passenger doesn't seem all that supernatural anymore. Or at least it isn't presented as such. I think it's moreso that Lindsay (the author) explores a different facet of serial murders with every book.

1st: Righteous Reason (in Bryan's mind anyway)/Send message
2nd: Revenge killing
3rd: Cult related
4th: Grief
5th: Cannabilism

Remember, he thought he was flying over the city while dreaming in the first book, everything is seen by Dexter's perspective and what he believes is true. If he begins to think the Dark Passenger is the son of Moloch...well...It might as well be for Dexter.

[BSW]

Dexter doesn't stand a ghost of a chance. He wouldn't survive for even a week. Check the spoilers to see why.
http://asset.soup.io/asset/0499/2715_3900.jpeg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4549/125577725916.jpg
I say that once CSI smell something, it would be time for Dexter...
*glasses*
...to run away to his laboratory.

Like I said, the CSI people use what might as well be magic.

Also, I love you.

[pita]

I don't know if you've read the fourth book or not yet (I have) but the Dark Passenger doesn't seem all that supernatural anymore. Or at least it isn't presented as such. I think it's moreso that Lindsay (the author) explores a different facet of serial murders with every book.

1st: Righteous Reason (in Bryan's mind anyway)/Send message
2nd: Revenge killing
3rd: Cult related
4th: Grief
5th: Cannabilism

Remember, he thought he was flying over the city while dreaming in the first book, everything is seen by Dexter's perspective and what he believes is true. If he begins to think the Dark Passenger is the son of Moloch...well...It might as well be for Dexter.
My friend, that is called Canon Dis Continuity (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CanonDisContinuity)

Dexter doesn't stand a ghost of a chance. He wouldn't survive for even a week. Check the spoilers to see why.
http://asset.soup.io/asset/0499/2715_3900.jpeg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4549/125577725916.jpg
I say that once CSI smell something, it would be time for Dexter...
*glasses*
...to run away to his laboratory.
I love you. I really really do.

[Trai]

I don't know if you've read the fourth book or not yet (I have) but the Dark Passenger doesn't seem all that supernatural anymore. Or at least it isn't presented as such. I think it's moreso that Lindsay (the author) explores a different facet of serial murders with every book.

1st: Righteous Reason (in Bryan's mind anyway)/Send message
2nd: Revenge killing
3rd: Cult related
4th: Grief
5th: Cannabilism

Remember, he thought he was flying over the city while dreaming in the first book, everything is seen by Dexter's perspective and what he believes is true. If he begins to think the Dark Passenger is the son of Moloch...well...It might as well be for Dexter.

I do know that Lindsay distanced himself from the supernatural aspect in the fourth book (agreed with the Canon Dis Continuity), though I have not yet read it. I'm kind of happy he did, honestly. I understand and like your theory of what he was trying to do, but I don't think he HAD to associate cult-related with the supernatural.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I do know that Lindsay distanced himself from the supernatural aspect in the fourth book (agreed with the Canon Dis Continuity), though I have not yet read it. I'm kind of happy he did, honestly. I understand and like your theory of what he was trying to do, but I don't think he HAD to associate cult-related with the supernatural.

He distanced himself about as far-away as he has always been from the Dark Passenger (which still holds hints of the supernatural) but what I suggested isn't really a theory. Lindsay has said as much as I have in interviews about exploring different aspects of murder/serial killing with each book.

And having a Moloch cult that DIDN'T believe in the supernatural..would have been even stranger then what he already did. Frankly, most religious cults (like the one he went with) usually do have some belief in the supernatural so it was only right he actually go in that direction.

[Archonic Energy]

my money's on Dexter.

he'd get a 4x4 change the plates and drive to the middle of the dessert... mmmm dessert... where was i? oh yeah he'd drive to the middle of the desert and dump the bodys there, drive to the road change the tires, burn the old ones, drive to the city change the plates back, dispose of the plates, wash the car, burn the car wash, burn the car. :smallamused:

[Oslecamo]

my money's on Dexter.

he'd get a 4x4 change the plates and drive to the middle of the dessert... mmmm dessert... where was i? oh yeah he'd drive to the middle of the desert and dump the bodys there, drive to the road change the tires, burn the old ones, drive to the city change the plates back, dispose of the plates, wash the car, burn the car wash, burn the car. :smallamused:

Unfortenely, not even fire is good enough to get away from the CSI team. Their uber skillz allow them to get evidence even from charred corpses.

Now, if Dexter doused the car in a cleaning chemical plant, he may get away. It hapened in one episode. The villain send his clothes to dry wash, and the CSI crew screamed in the agony as aparently all the possible evidence in there was corrupted by the chemicals.

Even then, Dexter's outnumbered and outlabbed. The CSI team has uber equipment that any real world scientist would kill for (computers who process millions of complex datas in few seconds? YYYEEAAAHHH!!!!).

He may evade them, but he would need to improve his own skillz.

[smellie_hippie]

May I again remind the audience that Grissom has left the building.

Much love to Lawrence Fishburn... but the rest of the team is smart but not "Grissom smart".

Dexter wins.