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Erith
2009-12-05, 06:18 PM
Today, my DM gave me access to every wizard spell ever. I have a library of books in game that are just a spellcraft check away from being my new personal playground.

I can also make 5 - 10 of my own spells.

I'm a little overwhelmed at this point. I'm a wizard 5/mage of the arcane order 10. The order is very involved in the world, and I have pretty much been sending anything unusual we find to study.

What do you do when you know close to every spell ever, and are one of the heads of one of the strongest magical organizations in the world?

Doc Roc
2009-12-05, 06:20 PM
Rule the world.

Erith
2009-12-05, 06:24 PM
Yes, but how do you go about doing that without completely breaking the game? I'd kind of like to still play this character.

pffh
2009-12-05, 06:25 PM
Do what all high level spellcasters do, whatever the hell they want to.

Ernir
2009-12-05, 06:31 PM
When creating your character's back story, did you think of what its ambitions might be? What it would do if it had access to ultimate power?

Because it is time to do it.

jseah
2009-12-05, 06:32 PM
What kind of campaign is this?

Despite Doctor Rocktopus's most excellent suggestion, given that situation, I would actively try and force a revolution of sorts in the world.

Start with rapidly developing the host country you're in. From every way, since you know every single spell in the DMG (that alone is enough), you can develop everything from mass production, to flying castles (perma-wall of force support + wall of stone), to banking (arcane mark), "tele"-airports (perma-teleport circle), and a telegraph network.

If that's not enough, invent a logic gate, then magic computers, and go on to spread the internet. Build starships ala the general relativity thread, or divination-powered computer banks.

That said, Doctor Rocktopus and I do not make for governable players. I'm more likely to try to warp the setting given the opportunity, than to sit in my tower pouring over books and waiting for the next plot hook.

Vonotar
2009-12-05, 06:35 PM
Become the next Villain in the campaign. Kill off your superiors (Somehow or other, you are a brain box with every spell at your command after all) However, pretend they are still alive (Illusions of some variety perhaps)
Corrupt your order to evil, one step at a time.
Alternatively do everything for the greater good and to impose world peace by force.

Erith
2009-12-05, 06:58 PM
Eberron, basically one of the houses has begun creating warforged from the souls of an enemy house. This goes up to the highest levels of something or other. I honestly stopped reading the campaign guide after getting the geography down.

As to the back story, My characters father used to be a regent of the order, and always pushed my character towards the order. Think doctor manhattan with physics. I was thinking of going with my character nefver actually had any goals planned after reaching the top, the driving force was to get their to please dear old dad. After he was convicted of selling the orders secrets, he was stripped of power and I never really saw him again. Lacking any other real goals or motivation, my character just kept going as he had been.

Oh yeah, I'm lawful neutral with a tendency towards good, so I'd rather not establish any dictatorships. I like the idea of claiming some land and hyperdeveloping it though.

Arakune
2009-12-05, 07:15 PM
Oh yeah, I'm lawful neutral with a tendency towards good, so I'd rather not establish any dictatorships. I like the idea of claiming some land and hyperdeveloping it though.

How do you plan to do it without dictatorship? If you are the king/emperor and is the only one that order people around, what's the real difference?

jseah
2009-12-05, 07:52 PM
Lacking any other real goals or motivation, my character just kept going as he had been.
Then it's perfect! You can justify almost any action you like.


Oh yeah, I'm lawful neutral with a tendency towards good, so I'd rather not establish any dictatorships. I like the idea of claiming some land and hyperdeveloping it though.
How do you plan to do it without dictatorship? If you are the king/emperor and is the only one that order people around, what's the real difference?
Easy enough. Simply make a working device, then forge a deal with some rich merchant/house and sell him the plans or grant exclusive rights to it's development.
Let economics take over from there.

Eberron makes this especially easy. Since they already have a banking system, the financial clout available is pretty damn high.

Move on, invent a new thing, sell it, repeat as desired.

Might as well rename the order to So-and-so's-Magitech-Solutions-Laboratory.

Bibliomancer
2009-12-05, 08:00 PM
Might as well rename the order to So-and-so's-Magitech-Solutions-Laboratory.

Which will last all of ten seconds before House Caanith Greater Teleports in a team of high level Artificers and kills you with a CL80 Word of Chaos.

Go crazy, and the DM will hit you with infinite Artificers. Its not advisable.

Counter-suggestion: use the action point system, Heroic Metamagic (Races of Eberron), and Spontaneous Casting (ECS) to be able to cast any spell from any sourcebook without preparation a few times per day. Apart from that, load up on scrolls. Then accomplish more with one spell than the rest of the party did in the entire battle/session/campaign.

Doc Roc
2009-12-05, 08:04 PM
Counter-counter-suggestions:
Staffs don't work that way, under most GMs.
Anticipate teleport is your friend.
Mindblank is your friend.
Be a noble because you bought a title, and then buy your way into a high-ranking guild membership with House Cannith.

Bibliomancer
2009-12-05, 08:07 PM
Counter-counter-suggestions:
Staffs don't work that way, under most GMs.
Anticipate teleport is your friend.
Mindblank is your friend.
Be a noble because you bought a title, and then buy your way into a high-ranking guild membership with House Cannith.

Counter-counter-counter-points:

The DM would probably use this (RAW) if you tried anything too crazy.

Maybe they used changelings.

Maybe they have scrolls of Disjunction.

Maybe they won't let anyone without a dragonmark into their guild.

jseah
2009-12-05, 08:07 PM
Which will last all of ten seconds before House Caanith Greater Teleports in a team of high level Artificers and kills you with a CL80 Word of Chaos.
Pre-empt it. XD Sell something to Cannith. Or anything that could pose a threat to you.

Don't fight them, just buy them out. It doesn't matter to you how they employ the world-changing stuff you put out, except that they employ it.

jiriku
2009-12-05, 08:08 PM
What level are you? That determines a lot of what you can do. Access to every wizard spell ever is nice at level 5, but dramatically more so at level 15.

I'd say the first thing to do is become paranoid. Your current character is potentially the most powerful D&D character you will ever get a chance to roleplay. You want to make sure that he lives for as long as you enjoy playing him. Start learning the best defensive spells. Put detect scrying and nondetection on yourself 24/7 and start sleeping in a rope trick or mordenkainen's magnificent mansion each night to protect yourself from assassination or kidnapping. Get superior resistance to boost your saves, and prepare spells like contingency and celerity to protect yourself from unexpected attack.

Once you've taken steps to avoid death from mischance, sit down and write down a list of five things your character would want to accomplish. Making all your fellow party members uber is a good goal to have if you can't think of anything better.

Now, root through the sourcebooks or post questions here to find the spells that will allow you to warp reality to get what you want. Then, hit the books, learn the spells, and make it happen.

jseah
2009-12-05, 08:12 PM
Hit the books
Learn the spells
Make it happen
The motto of every single one of my wizards from now on. XD

But really, spells in D&D3.5 are essentially the catch-all answer to almost any question. Having all spells is insanely powerful.

The question isn't so much "I don't know what to do", but more like "I have nothing that needs doing".

Mainly because... Anything that you need to do, gets done.

Doc Roc
2009-12-05, 08:21 PM
Counter-counter-counter-points:

The DM would probably use this (RAW) if you tried anything too crazy.

Maybe they used changelings.

Maybe they have scrolls of Disjunction.

Maybe they won't let anyone without a dragonmark into their guild.

Then just mindswitch some poor low level house cannith member.

This actually sounds like it'd be a really cool plot. Would you like me to draw up some adventure stubs over Christmas?

Inhuman Bot
2009-12-05, 08:24 PM
Maybe they won't let anyone without a dragonmark into their guild.

Then House Cannith would rapidly be reduced to nothing.

something like 1/100 people in Ebberon have a Dragonmark, and even fewer will have a Cannith mark.

Roderick_BR
2009-12-05, 09:33 PM
Seeing all these suggestions to take over the world, one wonders why no one tried that yet in all those books and stories...

Inhuman Bot
2009-12-06, 12:02 AM
Seeing all these suggestions to take over the world, one wonders why no one tried that yet in all those books and stories...

I would be upset if I sat down with a, say, 15$ novel and it read:

"Elminster realized the ineffectiveness of his feats, so he retrained. Then he simply cast wall of iron a few times, sold the iron for a profit, bought a candle of invocation, summoned Pazuzu and won at life."

Kantolin
2009-12-06, 12:12 AM
Wait a minute. Having knowledge to every spell ever does not automatically imply 'can cast any spell ever at any moment an indefinite amount of times'. O_o You still have to prepare them (Unless there's something I'm missing here).

Now granted, you are a level 15 wizard, and thus can cast a bunch of spells, so you're already pretty dang powerful with or without every spell in your spellbook. So the real question is, what do you want to do with your character? You can, indeed, probably do it now.

Forevernade
2009-12-06, 12:53 AM
I would be upset if I sat down with a, say, 15$ novel and it read:

"Elminster realized the ineffectiveness of his feats, so he retrained. Then he simply cast wall of iron a few times, sold the iron for a profit, bought a candle of invocation, summoned Pazuzu and won at life."

Hmmmm this gives me an idea for my next novel.... :smallamused:

Erith
2009-12-06, 01:36 AM
So, house canith...

Would undermining the worlds economy be considered an evil act?

How would they react to setting up a few tippyesque traps for an opposing house? Maybe devote a few months to converting the now unnecessary farmers into soldiers and mages? Would this be on the scale of "will send death threats" or more of a "epic level artificers in the night that know everything about me and have items to bypass my every defense"? Or would that break the campaign too quickly?

There's also the issue that the other 3 regents may disagree with my actions. I don't exactly have unilateral control over the order. What are some good ways to influence other high level mages? Between them, they likely know almost as many spells as I do, and they are likely a few levels higher than me.

I now kind of regret sending them all that stuff from the tomb of horrors to study. And the lich throne thing from tenep (sandstorm adventure).

Sliver
2009-12-06, 01:49 AM
I would be upset if I sat down with a, say, 15$ novel and it read:

"Elminster realized the ineffectiveness of his feats, so he retrained. Then he simply cast wall of iron a few times, sold the iron for a profit, bought a candle of invocation, summoned Pazuzu and won at life."

You need to buy a candle and summon Pazuzu? I thought summoning Pazuzu was so that you don't need to pay for the candle.. You could cut out 2 whole words out of this novel, saving some money and making even more ??? and profit!

AirTony7
2009-12-06, 01:58 AM
You need to buy a candle and summon Pazuzu? I thought summoning Pazuzu was so that you don't need to pay for the candle.. You could cut out 2 whole words out of this novel, saving some money and making even more ??? and profit!
You could cut even more words just by writing "Elminster summoned Pazuzu and won at life."

Sliver
2009-12-06, 02:10 AM
You could cut even more words just by writing "Elminster summoned Pazuzu and won at life."

"Elminster summoned Pazuzu and won." is more effective, as it leaves the reader anticipating but not getting what he wants so much.. He will want to buy your next novel in hopes of finding out, "AT WHAT? he won at what?!"

mostlyharmful
2009-12-06, 04:27 AM
Get the deeds to a pathetic little rock off the coast somewhere. retire to there for a few months....

Wall of Stone turns it from a tiny rock to a mid sized island, builds a harbour, a tower and a few key buildings (library, town hall, jail, whatever), disintegrate digs wells and a sewerage system, get a half dozen food traps and use bound Djinn to make the interiors habitable with perma-summoned plant matter such as desks and chairs and tapestries. Use illusion and conjuration to turn it into a livable, comfortable new town.

Then invite some low level stooges from whichever city/country comes closest to the culture you want. Seal off your island for a generation or two while training apprentices to train apprentices and generally turning it into a tippystatelet.

Who needs the world when it's so much effort to run, a good sized town run on Tippyesque lines would be more than enough excess production capability to provide any thousand mages with all the luxury they could ever want.

Tackyhillbillu
2009-12-06, 04:30 AM
I think having access to all Wizard Spells means you just won D&D.

Congrats.

Myrmex
2009-12-06, 04:53 AM
I'm afraid I don't see how the DM giving the wizard access to every spell is the same as allowing him to abuse the item creation rules.

lord_khaine
2009-12-06, 05:00 AM
And trap abuse is the kind of abuse you wont get past most DM's.

Still, you are a lv 15 wizard with all spells, even without abuse of the rules the question is still what do you want to do?

mostlyharmful
2009-12-06, 05:15 AM
I'm afraid I don't see how the DM giving the wizard access to every spell is the same as allowing him to abuse the item creation rules.

Item creation is actually not that important to most wizard schemes. Traps of create food can be replicated any number of other ways through casting, most notably through binding outsiders (is there really much that can't do?:smalltongue:). Other than convenience over the long term there's no big pull to using item creation.

Sliver
2009-12-06, 05:53 AM
The question is, "What would a character without motivation or purpose do if he had access to all the spells and a few spells he can create?"

Well, just create a spell "Create Plot Hook" and follow everything that comes up. Your character follows w/e plot because it has nothing better to do, so why not?

You could screw around with some little local villains that weaker adventurers hunt down.. Or leave random items and notes at random places, randomly screwing around random adventurers, randomly. "A rhyme a day keeps Dr Seuss away"

jseah
2009-12-06, 06:07 AM
Would undermining the worlds economy be considered an evil act?

How would they react to setting up a few tippyesque traps for an opposing house?
Abuse of trap rules are generally considered... abuse. Don't do it.

You can screw around with the world's economy regardless.
Decanter of endless water chained at the top of a tower = infinite waterfall = waterwheel power anywhere you like = factory
Permanent Gust of Wind = permanent wind power = windmills anywhere (including underground) = factory

I could list more.

Planar bind lantern archons for the at will greater teleport. Combine with portable holes to bypass weight restrictions.

Or provide access to the library (that has 9th level spells I assume) to artificers and commission a joint project to build permanent teleportation circles between two major trade cities.
Make millions of times the money back in toll.

Seriously, you don't need to abuse the rules much to industrialize the world.

Melamoto
2009-12-06, 06:10 AM
Use your custom spells to
A: Put together some defences against things such as Scry 'n Die
B: Work up some kind of ritual magic where you can use all of your followers to boost it's power tremendously
C: Power many magical items that perform useful tasks easily, and take this to the Tippyverse (Traps are not 100% necessary to do this)

deuxhero
2009-12-06, 10:39 AM
Create food traps, chain gate solars, Final Destination

Myrmex
2009-12-09, 05:10 PM
Item creation is actually not that important to most wizard schemes. Traps of create food can be replicated any number of other ways through casting, most notably through binding outsiders (is there really much that can't do?:smalltongue:). Other than convenience over the long term there's no big pull to using item creation.

Seeing as how the last page has been caster fap over item abuse rules, I disagree.

mostlyharmful
2009-12-09, 05:41 PM
Meh... caster fap over bound outsiders is the key to it. Bind an Effret and you don't need to worry about item creation rules. Or raise undead and enforce their eternal subsistence agricultural production with no running costs, or make a permenant Reverse Gravity hooked up to a turbine generator... or start messing about with Genisis, Wall of Stone, Fabricate, Animate Object, etc, etc, etc....