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Surrealistik
2009-12-06, 03:25 PM
Yes, I meant Counter Charge, sorry. That clarified, I really do think an AoO is incurred by RAW as per this exerpt (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041026a):

"You provoke an attack of opportunity when you're in a square on the battlefield that a foe threatens and you leave that square."

It doesn't specify how you leave it, just so long as you do. Further, other throws from the same discipline explicitly state that the movement they generate does not provoke AoOs while there is no such language for this one. Finally, from a flavour vantage it makes perfect sense as it's a counterattack.

I see a couple of possible arguments here.

The quote from the FAQ would argue in favor of granting the AoO. That's a pretty solid argument.

Referencing the other maneuvers in the discipline would, for me, argue against granting the AoO for this maneuver. To me it implies that the standard procedure for the maneuvers is to not grant the AoO. This would be more of an inductive argument, not as strong as the FAQ argument.

From the flavor perspective, I think you could have arguments for and against. The argument against it might be something like that you are too busy throwing the opponent to get your attack of opportunity. The argument for the AoO might be something else, not sure what. Possibly something like you're quick enough to strike the opponent as soon as you let go of your toss.

I would really recommend starting a thread in the RPG section, quoting our messages, to get more feedback on this. However, for the sake of brevity and not focusing on minutiae, I'll allow the AoO for the game. I'd still like to see the thread and hear what people have to say though.

Thoughts? Opinions? What I am doing with the Counter Charge is tossing an enemy 10 feet into the air out of my threatened space. The Counter Charge is a maneuver from the Tome of Battle, page 71.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-12-06, 04:30 PM
RAW seems to grant AoOs*. It wouldn't be that unreasonable to say otherwise as a houserule or something, though, especially since Mighty Throw (and by extension, Devastating Throw) specifically say that they don't grant AoOs.

*I wrote this with the assumption of enemies allies getting the AoO, not the thrower, because I failed to read, but RAW still seems to support it either way.

Surrealistik
2009-12-06, 04:36 PM
RAW seems to grant AoOs*. It wouldn't be that unreasonable to say otherwise as a houserule or something, though, especially since Mighty Throw (and by extension, Devastating Throw) specifically say that they don't grant AoOs.

*I wrote this with the assumption of enemies getting the AoO, not the thrower, because I failed to read, but RAW still seems to support it either way.

I don't think the thrower would suffer an AoO by the thrown opponent, because if that were the case, by that logic whenever someone who threatens you moves such that you are no longer threatened, he'd automatically get an AoO on your character.

As for the lack of specific language that prohibits the Counter Charger from gaining an AoO, I'd say that's about as deliberate as it gets.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-12-06, 04:39 PM
I don't think the thrower would suffer an AoO by the thrown opponent, because if that were the case, by that logic whenever someone who threatens you moves such that you are no longer threatened, he'd automatically get an AoO on your character.

Yeah, that was a typo. My bad. I meant to say allies, not enemies.