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View Full Version : Assassin stuff: weapons, armor, and the rule books they come from



Rev.Scarecrow
2009-12-06, 05:45 PM
Hey I'm trying to find stuff for my unarmed Swordsage assassin. I'd like to find a thing that I can wear to poison people when I punch them.

Do punching daggers (and other related pseudo unarmed weapons) work with the unarmed damage chain? It sounds like the scorpion claw gauntlet (from the Secrets of Xen'drik) does do unarmed damage (nonlethal in most cases) but it's a bit unclear.

Also if I wanna find stuff for assassin like characters which book(s) should I look at? I looked at the "Complete Scoundrel" and the "Book of vile deeds"

Also is there any other good nonmagical stuff that I should buy?

Akal Saris
2009-12-06, 06:48 PM
Well, for poison-related stuff I can suggest my handbook. I don't know of any weapons you can wear to enhance your unarmed damage, but you could wear normal gloves and smear contact poison onto each of them.

Otherwise, Drow of the Underdark has a lot of assassin-related stuff, especially in the gear section. Some excellent feats too. The Magic Item Compendium also has some good stuff.

For non-magical gear, my swordsage had a variety of weapon types to pierce DR, non-magical masterwork gear for +2 to hide and move silently, some vials of acid to deal with locked doors, and that was about it.

By the way, it's unclear from your post if your character is a swordsage/assassin, or a swordsage who assassinates people.

Rev.Scarecrow
2009-12-06, 07:10 PM
Well, for poison-related stuff I can suggest my handbook. I don't know of any weapons you can wear to enhance your unarmed damage, but you could wear normal gloves and smear contact poison onto each of them.

Otherwise, Drow of the Underdark has a lot of assassin-related stuff, especially in the gear section. Some excellent feats too. The Magic Item Compendium also has some good stuff.

For non-magical gear, my swordsage had a variety of weapon types to pierce DR, non-magical masterwork gear for +2 to hide and move silently, some vials of acid to deal with locked doors, and that was about it.

By the way, it's unclear from your post if your character is a swordsage/assassin, or a swordsage who assassinates people.

Good info thanks! Regarding your question, both really. He is a swordsage now but lacks the prerequisites to be assassin at level 2 (ECL 3 because of dark template). But I will get the assassin class asap but just because he is not an assassin by class won't stop him from doing contract killings.

The Glyphstone
2009-12-06, 09:05 PM
Since you already happily recognize you can be an assassin without being an Assassin, don't bother. Death attack sucks unless you pile a lot of resources into it, and you'll be far better off with the higher-level Swordsage maneuvers you get - the Shadow Jump line in particular - once you've got the Swift version, you can jump 50ft. through a window as a move action, mess some fool's face up with a powerful Standard action strike, then Swift action Jump out. The closest Assassin gets to this is the shadow form spell. :/

Poison can be good, but hideously expensive unless you get a homebrewed variant. I think Complete Scoundrel has some poison-related feats to improve DCs and such.

Hida Reju
2009-12-06, 10:35 PM
If you are dead set on playing an assassin then try to get your DM to House Rule that the DC for your death attack is 10 + Character lvl + Int mod.

That way it scales decently.

BRC
2009-12-06, 11:31 PM
Here, lets make the list of the four aspects of a successful assassination.
Intelligence: Discovering stuff about your target.
A good library or knowledge base is going to be very handy for this. Get some contacts you can hire to research potential targets, at higher levels, divinations can be very useful.
Approach: Getting close to your target.
For this, you'll want Rope (a Rod of Ropes would work great), disguise kit/hat of disguise, things to improve your hide/move silently check, a good set of lockpicks, ect.
Execution: Eliminating your target (Often the easy part, once everything else is handled). Assuming your target isn't very dangerous personally (Merely protected by dangerous people) you shouldn't need much in the way of equipment for this part. A good, concealable weapon would be nice, but considering you're an unarmed swordsage, you shouldn't need to bring one. If your target is dangerous, the extra equipment you need to bring will depend on the danger in question. For example, if the target is a powerful wizard, bring along a Thunderstone to give them a nasty spell failure chance.
Escape: Getting out after your target is eliminated.
Ah, the tricky part. Assuming you didn't kill them in such a way as to let you waltz out of there with nobody the wiser, alot of this stuff will be the same stuff that got you in, but there are some special things. Panic Buttons from Compscoundrel will work nicely for putting some distance between you and the guards. A Smokestick can throw up a nice cloud of fog you can use to slip away. Chances are that guards are going to be trying to catch you, so a Salve of Slipperyness can help solve that particular problem, also anything that increases your movement speed, gives you nonstandard methods of movement, or makes you harder to hit.
Now, are you mainly working in one area, or do you travel around?


Also, in the Cityscape Web Enhancement they have the Assassination Weapon enchantment. It's a +1 enchantment that gives you 1d6 sneak attack die and lets you poison the weapon with no chance of poisoning yourself.

Rev.Scarecrow
2009-12-07, 12:31 AM
So then there is no weapon that is just like spiked gloves or something? I mean how hard is it to make some gloves that have spikes to poison people with punches? Doesn't this game have Ulaks or brass knuckles with spikes? Why does a spiked gauntlet do 1d4 regardless of your ability to punch people? I mean I can hit for 1d6 when not wearing spiked metal gauntlets... Spiked metal gauntlets! My damage should go up not down.

The Glyphstone
2009-12-07, 12:35 AM
Spiked gauntlets do damage equal to the unarmed damage of a creature of that size. Unarmed Medium creatures do 1d4 damage. Remember that unarmed strikes can be conducted with your entire body - having spikes on your hands isn't as impressive when you're also kicking, headbutting, kneeing, and belly-slamming your enemies.

What would be funny is if you take a level in Kensai to get that Assassination weapon ability added to your unarmed strikes. Bet people in bars lots of money that you won't plunge your hands into a bucket of Black Lotus Extract.

gorfnab
2009-12-07, 01:56 AM
Telfammar Shadowlord - (Unapproachable East) is a good combo with the Assassin prestige class, really good with levels of swordsage for Shadow Jaunt/Stride/Blink
Craven feat - (Champions of Ruin) is great for most sneak attack builds
Justice of Weald and Woe - (Champions of Ruin) archer pseudo-assassin prestige class

Rev.Scarecrow
2009-12-07, 11:21 PM
Spiked gauntlets do damage equal to the unarmed damage of a creature of that size. Unarmed Medium creatures do 1d4 damage. Remember that unarmed strikes can be conducted with your entire body - having spikes on your hands isn't as impressive when you're also kicking, headbutting, kneeing, and belly-slamming your enemies.

What would be funny is if you take a level in Kensai to get that Assassination weapon ability added to your unarmed strikes. Bet people in bars lots of money that you won't plunge your hands into a bucket of Black Lotus Extract.

Well gauntlets do normal unarmed (meaning a monk or a swordsage like me with a advanced damage chain would do that damage) so why does that change when you get spiked gauntlets?

Also I don't understand why you couldn't just get that assassination weapon ability added to my fist without Kensai. I read it and I don't understand the difference. It seems that all level 1 in kensai allows you to pick a weapon to be your signature weapon which you can give +1 to at level one.


Telfammar Shadowlord - (Unapproachable East) is a good combo with the Assassin prestige class, really good with levels of swordsage for Shadow Jaunt/Stride/Blink
Craven feat - (Champions of Ruin) is great for most sneak attack builds
Justice of Weald and Woe - (Champions of Ruin) archer pseudo-assassin prestige class

Damn craven and shadowlord are good. Now I gotta build that in. The feat requirements on shadowlord are kinda steep with them and craven I am out of feats to use. I wouldn't be able to get shadowlord until around 20 meaning I'll have to use fighter levels to increase the number of feats I get. I'm gonna have to do some number crunching to see if it's worth it.

SurlySeraph
2009-12-08, 12:45 AM
Well gauntlets do normal unarmed (meaning a monk or a swordsage like me with a advanced damage chain would do that damage) so why does that change when you get spiked gauntlets?

By the rules as written, gauntlets and spiked gauntlets do a fixed amount of damage. By a sensible interpretation of the rules, they'd do your actual unarmed strike damage as you say.


Also I don't understand why you couldn't just get that assassination weapon ability added to my fist without Kensai. I read it and I don't understand the difference. It seems that all level 1 in kensai allows you to pick a weapon to be your signature weapon which you can give +1 to at level one.

Because you can't just enchant your body. There *are* ways to to enchant your unarmed strikes, though - either Kensai or enchant a Fanged Ring or Amulet of Natural Attacks with the abilities you want. Or (again, assuming that you use a sensible interpretation of the rules) enchant your gauntlets.


Damn craven and shadowlord are good. Now I gotta build that in. The feat requirements on shadowlord are kinda steep with them and craven I am out of feats to use. I wouldn't be able to get shadowlord until around 20 meaning I'll have to use fighter levels to increase the number of feats I get. I'm gonna have to do some number crunching to see if it's worth it.

Oh yeah. Shadowlord is high-investment, high-reward. Craven is obligatory for sneak attack optimization.

Rev.Scarecrow
2009-12-08, 01:47 AM
By the rules as written, gauntlets and spiked gauntlets do a fixed amount of damage. By a sensible interpretation of the rules, they'd do your actual unarmed strike damage as you say.



Because you can't just enchant your body. There *are* ways to to enchant your unarmed strikes, though - either Kensai or enchant a Fanged Ring or Amulet of Natural Attacks with the abilities you want. Or (again, assuming that you use a sensible interpretation of the rules) enchant your gauntlets.



Oh yeah. Shadowlord is high-investment, high-reward. Craven is obligatory for sneak attack optimization.

So wait your saying kensai turns my fist into magical weapons and that magical weapons can be enchanted to get the "assassination" ability? Isn't there a better way to enchant my fist making them magical weapons?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-08, 01:50 AM
So wait your saying kensai turns my fist into magical weapons and that magical weapons can be enchanted to get the "assassination" ability? Isn't there a better way to enchant my fist making them magical weapons?Not really. The methods I can recall off the top of my head:
Kensai
Necklace of Natural Attacks(Savage Species, often banned)
Houseruling Amulet of Mighty Blows to work
Houseruling Enchanted Gauntlets to work and giving Monks proficiency
Scorpion Kama(Sandstorm)

Rasman
2009-12-08, 01:56 AM
In one of the Quintessencial Monk Books, there's a Signet Ring that has a hidden blade in it that can hold poison as well, kinda like a fountian pen. You can use that with your unarmed strikes to poison an enemy.

Master_Rahl22
2009-12-08, 01:32 PM
Scorpion Kama is also in the Magic Item Compendium. It's a kama whose damage equals your unarmed damage, so it's an enchantable weapon that scales with your damage. Necklace of Natural (Attacks or Weapons, don't remember what it's called) is from Savage Species and costs 600, and can then be enchanted just like it were a masterwork weapon and affects one natural weapon, or in this case your unarmed strike. So a +1 Greatsword is 2350, and a +1 Necklace is 2600. It's around 1/3 the price of the Amulet of Mighty Fists, and it allows you to put stuff like Collision, Impact, Flaming, etc. on your unarmed attacks.