Ring of empowerment

[Pigkappa]

Do you like this? Is it balanced?


Ring of empowerment: this ring has the following effect. When it is worn by a caster who casts a personal spell with a fixed duration on himself (that is, duration is not "Instantaneous"), the spell is copied inside the ring. Until the caster is wearing the ring, the spell will always be active (so, the duration of the spell becomes infinite).
If the caster unwears the ring, the effect vanishes immediately, and it is no more in the ring. If the caster is hit by a Dispel Magic spell, a Dispel check is made for every spell copied inside the ring.
Exceptions: Time Stop is not affected by this ring. The DM should consider other reasonable exceptions for non-core spells.

Ring of empowerment, minor: this ring can copy a total of 3 levels of spells (that is, if a cleric with the ring casts Divine Power, the ring doesn't work; but if he casts Divine Favor and Find Traps, the ring works on both spells). Faint evocation, CL 8th, Forge Ring, Imbue with spell ability, the caster must have the Extend Spell feat, 48000gp.

Ring of empowerment: up to 5 levels of spells. Moderate evocation, CL 13th, Forge Ring, Imbue with spell ability, the caster must have the Extend Spell feat, 130000gp.

Ring of empowerment, major: up to 9 levels of spells. Strong evocation, CL 17th, Forge Ring, Imbue with spell ability, the caster must have the Extend Spell feat, 170000gp. should probably be an artifact to be balanced.

[Edwin]

Do you like this? Is it balanced?


Ring of empowerment: this ring has the following effect. When it is worn by a caster who casts a personal spell on himself, the spell is copied inside the ring. Until the caster is wearing the ring, the spell will always be active (so, the duration of the spell becomes infinite).
If the caster unwears the ring, the effect vanishes immediately, and it is no more in the ring. If the caster is hit by a Dispel Magic spell, a Dispel check is made for every spell copied inside the ring.

Ring of empowerment, minor: this ring can copy a total of 3 levels of spells (that is, if a cleric with the ring casts Divine Power, the ring doesn't work; but if he casts Divine Favor and Find Traps, the ring works on both spells). Faint evocation, CL 7th, Forge Ring, Imbue with spell ability, 30000gp.

Ring of empowerment: up to 5 levels of spells. Moderate evocation, CL 11th, Forge Ring, Imbue with spell ability, 70000gp.

Ring of empowerment, major: up to 9 levels of spells. Strong evocation, CL 17th, Forge Ring, Imbue with spell ability, 170000gp.

The cost might mitigate it somewhat, but getting a 9th level permancied spell is rather powerfull.

And how would Time Stop work with this? Infinite actions, forever?

[Telonius]

False Life is another one that could get a little screwy. Do the temporary hit points keep getting renewed once discharged? If so, that breaks the item.

EDIT: Also, this has the same problem as the notoriously-sillyTrue Strike mechanics. True Strike is a level-1 personal spell.

I do like the idea, but there need to be more safeguards against that sort of thing in place.

[Pigkappa]

this is a way to fix some of these things:

The ring can extend the duration of spells, but does not prevent a spell from vanishing for other reasons. So, when the temporary hit points of False Life disappear, the spell fades off. When you hit someone with the +20 bonus of True Strike, the spell fades off.


I didn't think about Time Stop; I thought it affected the whole world instead of being a "personal" spell. I guess the only ways to adjust that are to make an exception for that spell (which makes sense IMO, that's a strange kind of personal spell...), or to lower the levels of spells of the Major ring down to 9.
Anyway, what happens if a cleric with Time Stop has the Persistent Spell feat and can use Turn Undead to make that spell persistent?

[deuxhero]

Permanent false life would work the same as perm true strike. You get the bonus on your next attack/keep the extra HP, it just doesn't expire.

[Mando Knight]

Require the affected spell to be one with a duration, as per Persistent Spell. I'd also require the Persistent Spell metamagic feat to craft the item. Persistent Time Stop is also worthless: you can't actually affect anything while under its effects.

The costs are also a bit off: I'd use the pricing guidelines.

3x7x2000 is 42000, for the price of the minor ring.
11x5x2000 is 11000, which would be for the standard ring.
9x17x2000 is 306000, which is for the major ring.

[Frog Dragon]

I didn't think about Time Stop; I thought it affected the whole world instead of being a "personal" spell. I guess the only ways to adjust that are to make an exception for that spell (which makes sense IMO, that's a strange kind of personal spell...), or to lower the levels of spells of the Major ring down to 9.
Anyway, what happens if a cleric with Time Stop has the Persistent Spell feat and can use Turn Undead to make that spell persistent?
It's actually a super-haste. It speeds you up so massively that everyone seems to just freeze.

[Lysander]

Require the affected spell to be one with a duration, as per Persistent Spell. I'd also require the Persistent Spell metamagic feat to craft the item. Persistent Time Stop is also worthless: you can't actually affect anything while under its effects.

The costs are also a bit off: I'd use the pricing guidelines.

3x7x2000 is 42000, for the price of the minor ring.
11x5x2000 is 11000, which would be for the standard ring.
9x17x2000 is 306000, which is for the major ring.

Maybe it should also require the spell be one with a duration that increases with caster level. That would exclude time stop and probably a lot of other spells specifically designed to only last for a small amount of time.

[Pigkappa]

Require the affected spell to be one with a duration, as per Persistent Spell.

Going to add that in the description.



I'd also require the Persistent Spell metamagic feat to craft the item.

No, I don't really agree with this. It makes sense, but that would make the item extremely difficult to be make for a player, and I don't like prerequisites which can't be matched by players who are new to the game (i.e., players who just read the PH). I'm going to require the Extend Spell feat.



Persistent Time Stop is also worthless: you can't actually affect anything while under its effects.

I'm still not comfortable with it; you can create an army of undead in the middle of a battle that way. I'm going to ban it.



The costs are also a bit off: I'd use the pricing guidelines.

3x7x2000 is 42000, for the price of the minor ring.
11x5x2000 is 11000, which would be for the standard ring.
9x17x2000 is 306000, which is for the major ring.

Is the major version of the ring really much better than the greater metamagic rod of quickening (cast any three spells/day as if they were quickened)?

[Milskidasith]

No, it's not. The cost for even the ninth level ability isn't worth 302,000 considering you could just buy permanencied spells for less. Granted, you can have a lot of permanent spells with this, but it is far too expensive to be useful.

[Dairun Cates]

The cost might mitigate it somewhat, but getting a 9th level permancied spell is rather powerfull.

I gotta agree with Edwin here. Getting effective Permanence on every self-buff spell is outrageous. Although, I honestly don't think any amount of gold really can negate how powerful this really is.

A Cleric that PERMENANTLY has Divine Power up if you can't dispel it for the cost of 70,000 gold? The Cleric gains +1 BA progression, +6 strength, AND his caster level in temp HP permanently? And that IS a core spell. Is that really fair to the fighter that had troubles with CoDZilla stealing his spotlight to begin with and now the caster no longer needs to recharge his spells to do that again?

What about Permanent Shapechange? Thought Polymorph was bad before now it's permanent. This isn't even ALLOWED under Permanence normally since there's a level cap (if I'm remembering it right).

There's also the issue of scrolls. You don't even need to be high enough level to cast the spells yet for this ring to take effect. You just needed to afford the one that can store it.

Honestly, I'm kinda baffled about the desire for this item. Casters are already kind of broken to begin with and this only helps the Caster him/herself. As a player, I'd be frustrated at the pandering to the Casters. As a GM, It'd be a nightmare to balance since you'd need to challenge the perma-buffed guy without slaughtering the rest of the party.

The balancing factor of Buffs is it taking up a spell slot and usually a turn to cast or some prep ahead of battle. Sure, it can be dispelled, but so can Permanence, and that costs actual player EXP.

EDIT:

No, it's not. The cost for even the ninth level ability isn't worth 302,000 considering you could just buy permanencied spells for less. Granted, you can have a lot of permanent spells with this, but it is far too expensive to be useful.
I think you're failing to calculate in the fact that these Permanent spells are free forever. Once you buy the ring, you don't have to pay for some of your Permanent spells ever again. If you're high enough level where dispel magics are flying around, it's well worth it.

DOUBLE EDIT:
Okay. Looked it up. Permanence can effect 9th level spells. I still don't really suggest this item's concept though. Over the long term in any moderately high level campaign, it's just too potent.

[Anonymouswizard]

Sounds interesting, but most likely to powerful with core casters.

[Pigkappa]

A Cleric that PERMENANTLY has Divine Power up if you can't dispel it for the cost of 70,000 gold? The Cleric gains +1 BA progression, +6 strength, AND his caster level in temp HP permanently? And that IS a core spell. Is that really fair to the fighter that had troubles with CoDZilla stealing his spotlight to begin with and now the caster no longer needs to recharge his spells to do that again?


No, that isn't fair at all, but it is as unfair as the Persistent Spell feat. That costs you two (maybe three) feats, but no gold. What's really unfair is the Divine Power spell in my opinion.




Honestly, I'm kinda baffled about the desire for this item. Casters are already kind of broken to begin with and this only helps the Caster him/herself. As a player, I'd be frustrated at the pandering to the Casters. As a GM, It'd be a nightmare to balance since you'd need to challenge the perma-buffed guy without slaughtering the rest of the party.


This is a powerful item and it is only for casters. That doesn't mean other characters should complain; it's quite boring when a +6 Strength Belt comes out to listen to the wizard saying "Aw man, never Intelligence" or the Rogue "Aw man, never Dexterity".


Anyway, I see your point. This item is just as strong as the Persistent Spell feat, costing money instead of feats (which makes it probably stronger). The Greater version should probably be a Minor Artifact (with some other minor abilities and a decent name and background), and the lesser versions should be introduced carefully by the DMs and be considered unique pieces in the world, difficult and expensive to be made. I'm gonna raise their prices.

[deuxhero]

Allow non-casters to have it be used on them per a ring of spell storing (caster casts spells into it, non-caster then wears).

[Lysander]

What if the ring just allowed you to cast persistent spells at lower spell levels, granting you 6 spell level deductions per day with the spell's normal level as a minimum? You could break it up among several lower level spells, for example persisting two level 3 spells with two level 6 spell slots, or persist any one spell of your choice for free. It's still pretty potent but not quite as overpowered.