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Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-07, 10:18 PM
So I was skimming throug my copy of ToB and decided to pay a bit more attention to the Ruby Knight Vindicator class, It seems a powerful (I am sure some people call it the Rubi Knight WINdicator) and flavorful class, so I though it could make a nice character.

The basic concept is that this character is an enforcer of the church of Wee Jas, that does not rely on martial power and magic as normal vindicators, but he uses stealth to do what the Stern Lady demands.

The build stub goes like this

Human
Cloistered Cleric 5/ RKV 10/ something that advances cleric spellcasting 5//Dark template LA +1 (to be bought of ASAP)/swordsage 19 (20 if LA bough-off is acepted)

I plan to get the pre-requisite manoubers through martial martial study and martial stance.

As for domains Undeath is a given (extra turning=extra swift actions), but I am not sure on the others one, Magic or spell domain (not sure if wee jas got either of them) or maybe planning domain If my DM says yes to DMM

So does the playground have any suggestions of feats, manoubers, stances, general tips?

Thanks in advance

Ponce
2009-12-07, 10:55 PM
The problem with your build is that you don't really have access to Devoted Spirit stuff (required for RKV) and it is not very well optimized for gestalt (a melee character in a gestalt game really should have full or near-full BaB).

I would suggest something like

Crusader5/RKV10/Crusader5//Swordsage1/Cloistered Cleric5/Swordsage4/Cloistered Cleric1/Swordsage4/Divine PRC4

This nets you better saves and full BAB overall. Your HD are lacking, however. The levels of Cloistered cleric re meant to line up with the levels of RKV in which you don't advance casting, so you have level 19 cleric spellcasting by the end. You also initiate as a 20th level crusader and as an 11th level swordsage. This could probably definitely be improved.

You can whore Extra Turning and Nightsticks as much as your DM will allow. Take Divine Metamagic, Divine Might, Persistent Spell (and so on) and buff yourself into the stratosphere.

Also, here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871270/Tome_of_Battle_for_Dummies).

Wings of Peace
2009-12-07, 10:55 PM
Bad puns win you a keg of Hatorade. That said the typical abuse of RKV is to use it in conjunction with lots of Night Sticks for lots of turning attempts.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-07, 11:02 PM
@Ponce_leRue: I know it is a bit sub-par to what I could do with gestalt, but it is a casual game, where we don't optimize much so that isn't a problem.

I have no experience using crusaders (I mostly play swordsges) and the granted manouber thing-y makes me a bit wary of it.

As for the Devoted Spirit, I believe they serve only as prerequisites to the class or am I missing something?

@Wings of Peace:Yeah I know it is a bad pun but I just needed to do it :smallwink:

Glimbur
2009-12-07, 11:10 PM
I'd argue crusader has the best recovery mechanic. Sure, you get some randomness, but if you get 2 (3 with Extra Granted Maneuver) maneuvers at the start of combat out of 5, then all you have to do is make sure all 5 are worth using.

Randomness isn't bad if you're randomly selecting between good options.

Tokiko Mima
2009-12-08, 02:07 AM
I'd argue crusader has the best recovery mechanic. Sure, you get some randomness, but if you get 2 (3 with Extra Granted Maneuver) maneuvers at the start of combat out of 5, then all you have to do is make sure all 5 are worth using.

Randomness isn't bad if you're randomly selecting between good options.

Plus, with RKV adding +2 maneuvers readied and the blurb in the Maneuvers Readied PrC section on pg. 96, you start combat with 5 maneuvers out of 8 with a full refresh happening every 4 rounds. Take the Extra Granted Maneuver feat and you start with 6 of 8 and a refresh happening at the end of every 3rd round of combat. I mean, how many maneuvers are you going to use every three rounds, anyway?

Imagine that with a class that has a maneuver that can deal 6d8 + initiator level times 2d8 damage (Greater Divine Surge), then heal themselves on the following round with their 9th level maneuver (Strike of Righteous Vitality) then a round after that their maneuvers automatically refresh allowing them to rinse and repeat. That's only 2 maneuvers out of 8, leaving plenty of room for counters and boosts, and RKV's schtick means you'll always have whatever maneuver you like, and the swift actions to use it as long as you have turn attempts remaining.

Pluto
2009-12-08, 02:14 AM
If you can deal with Deity-specificity issues, I'd like to see some Ordained Champion in here. Stagger Cloistered Cleric levels for maximum CL goodness.

Spend a Move action sticking a spell in your weapon, spend a standard action smashing enemies with a Maneuver and that spell's effects.

Consider a victim-specific Silence or Antimagic Field tacked onto a Strike of Righteous Vitality or White Raven Hammer. Then laugh maniacally.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-08, 02:40 AM
Currently, your build loses farther to many caster levels, especially in gestalt.

I'd go with Crusader 5/RKV10/TOB PrC, moar Crusader, whatever else gets you 9s in Devoted Spirit//Cloistered Cleric 5/(Swordsage 5-X)/Cloistered Cleric +X (or, if allowed, another PrC that advances casting)/Cleric PrC 5. X happens whenever you would lose a caster level from RKV. If you want more madness, use Warblade for a few levels instead of Swordsage, just cuz, really.

Other PrCs to consider: Contemplative for more domains, Refluffed Ordained Champion, Divine Oracle for "Evasion," and Sacred Exorist for more turn undead.

Use feats for Power Attack, day-long Divine Power (still gives +6 strength, after all), and more turning.

EDIT: Considering the RKW's abilities to burn through turn attempts faster than a hot hobo through a butter sandwich, I recommend buying the always mentioned Nightsticks and the like to make sure you have enough turn attempts for everything. Grab Undeath (and/or Death, I can never remember which one gives the extra attempts... or which ones Wee Jas has:smallredface:) for moar attempts. If only one is applicable, grab Planning, if possible.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-08, 06:38 PM
What book is ordained champion from? and why do I need to deal with deity specific-ness?

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-08, 06:52 PM
What book is ordained champion from? and why do I need to deal with deity specific-ness?

Ordained Champion is in Complete Champion, but, as is, it is written to as being a divine champion for either Hextor or Heironeous.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-08, 06:53 PM
Ordained Champion is in Complete Champion, but, as is, it is written to as being a divine champion for either Hextor or Heironeous.

I'll ran it through my DM to see what he thinks of it