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Tanuki Tales
2009-12-07, 11:19 PM
Are there any PrCs or base class character options that give a character a kind of Fey feel?

I'm aware of templates like Half-Fey and the Fey Heritage feats but that's really it.

Edit: I also have the Goodman Games' Complete Fey, I just haven't read it yet.

Glimbur
2009-12-07, 11:25 PM
Warlock can have a fey flavor to it.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-07, 11:33 PM
Warlock can have a fey flavor to it.

How do you figure?

Serpentine
2009-12-07, 11:36 PM
Honey and sherbert.

Oh, you mean characters? Just sherbert. I mean, have you seen the "should be core" Witch class (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19526430/The_WITCH_Core_Class)? Specifically:

Dabble [1st/10th/20th level]: Each witch has a natural affinity for one of the forbidden, secret, or obscure branches of witchcraft called the Arts. Dabbling in a particular Art can merely reflect the witch’s own personal preference or hint at some magical heredity. A witch descended from a humanoid and Fey union may naturally have a knack for Fairy Magic, for example, while one from a humanoid and weretiger coupling may dabble in Cat Magic, Moon Magic, or both...
Fairy Magic: Some witches tap Fey for arcane inspiration, drawing upon these nature spirits to augment their own magic. Only Nonlawful witches can dabble in Fairy Magic, a favorite Art of elves. Power: The witch speaks Sylvan and either Aquan, Auran, Elven, or Terran as bonus languages; if she already speaks Sylvan, she can select a second listed language. Spells: 0 daze animal, 1 faerie fire, 2 glitterdust, 3 summon nature’s ally III (satyr), 4 freedom of movement, 5 commune with nature, 6 transport via plants, 7 summon nature’s ally VII (pixie), 8 Otto’s irresistible dance, 9 summon nature’s ally IX (grig).
Vulnerability: All witches harbor some secret weakness or undiscovered vulnerability, the result of the peculiar magic that flows within them. The witch acquires a vulnerability, determined randomly from the following list (or one approved by the DM): [list=1]
Cold Iron: Cold iron weapons strike the witch as if the wielder has the Improved Critical feat (if the wielder has the Improved Critical feat, the threat range is only increased by 1). A critical hit forces her to make Fortitude save (DC equal to the damage dealt) or be nauseated for 1 round. Any cold iron damage can only be healed with magic. Other bits and pieces, as well. Combine it with half-fey and the like...

Claudius Maximus
2009-12-07, 11:36 PM
Warlock can have a fey flavor to it.
How do you figure?

It's explicitly referred to as a possibility in Complete Mage, the same book that contains Fey Heritage feats.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-07, 11:40 PM
It's explicitly referred to as a possibility in Complete Mage, the same book that contains Fey Heritage feats.

All I'm seeing is a paragraph of fluff. Is there any actual mechanics change involved that wouldn't be a house rule?

Glimbur
2009-12-07, 11:42 PM
Warlocks have to be any Chaotic or any Evil. CG is probably not making pacts with demons or devils for power... so why not with the fey? Lots of warlock invocations are tricky (Flee the Scene, that invisibility one, etc) or magical (the dispelling ones); and warlocks even get DR/Cold Iron like fey do. Just re-fluff it.

dragonfan6490
2009-12-07, 11:42 PM
Wild Soul PrC from Complete Mage is based around the whole Seelie/UnSeelie Court deal, so it is most definitely Fey flavored.

Roc Ness
2009-12-07, 11:44 PM
Feytouched? I saw an extract of it somewhere, it was like a fey version of the Aasimar. Y'know, ancestral thing, +1 LA, Fey type, spell-like ability and skill bonuses.

On the other hand, I know there is a Lesser Aasimar and Tiefling, is there a Lesser Feytouched?

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-07, 11:45 PM
Warlocks have to be any Chaotic or any Evil. CG is probably not making pacts with demons or devils for power... so why not with the fey? Lots of warlock invocations are tricky (Flee the Scene, that invisibility one, etc) or magical (the dispelling ones); and warlocks even get DR/Cold Iron like fey do. Just re-fluff it.

Almost all of the Warlock class as in Complete Arcane is obviously Demon based and very few of the new invocations in Complete Mage could even be argued as Fey based.

Forgot about Wild Soul. Will look into that one.

sonofzeal
2009-12-07, 11:48 PM
I recently built a fey-themed Sorcerer. I used Sentinel of Bharrai to get the nature-y element in, and Nightmare Spinner to get some of that good old Fey terror. You need to be Good aligned, but that's not expressly forbidden by Nightmare Spinner... and it seemed very "fey" to have a slightly different sense of good and evil. I also chose my spell list to be as exotic as possible, and forcibly constrained myself from picking even a single Core spell or feat.



As for actual Fey stuff, there isn't much. I suggest just reflavouring other stuff like I did.

Zaq
2009-12-07, 11:54 PM
Bard. No, really. "Sure, anyone can sing the words, but the magic comes from singing it in the key of Pixie!"

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-07, 11:56 PM
Almost all of the Warlock class as in Complete Arcane is obviously Demon based and very few of the new invocations in Complete Mage could even be argued as Fey based.

Forgot about Wild Soul. Will look into that one.

I have to support Glimbur on this, here. Heck, even the Black Tentacles could be refluffed into being gigantic vines. The flavor is entirely mutable. Mechanically, just grab the invocations that have abilities you feel would be on a pixie or nymph or a dryad, etc.

Hell, I even recommend describing the "normally" purple eldritch blast as a rainbow of flavor flowers.

Hyooz
2009-12-07, 11:58 PM
Also: Consider 4e. Warlocks have 3 kinds of pacts, Infernal, Star, and Fey.

Really, warlocks are a class that rely on some kind of pact or connection with powerful magical beings. There's no reason that being can't be fey.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 12:02 AM
Also: Consider 4e. Warlocks have 3 kinds of pacts, Infernal, Star, and Fey.

Really, warlocks are a class that rely on some kind of pact or connection with powerful magical beings. There's no reason that being can't be fey.

For multitudes of reasons that won't be discussed as they're off topic, I like to ignore 4e ever happened.

Also, I'm not looking for refurbishing something. Retooling a class thematically or mechanically to fit a theme can be done for almost anything in all of Dungeons and Dragons. I'm looking for something clearly Fey based.

Glimbur
2009-12-08, 12:05 AM
Spirit Shaman, from Complete Divine?

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 12:07 AM
Spirit Shaman, from Complete Divine?

I keep forgetting they consider Fey as Spirits. Thanks.

Serpentine
2009-12-08, 12:18 AM
No love for the Witch? :smallfrown: Have someone playing it in my game right now, perfectly servicable (though his is mirror and number-based).

Anonanimal
2009-12-08, 12:19 AM
Fey Warlock Invocations:

Least: Beguiling Influence, Call of the Beast, Entropic Warding. Other possibilities could be Leaps and Bounds (especially if you multiclass Rogue or take your first level in Factotum with Able Learner or something), Dark One's Own Luck (those lucky faeries), Serpent's Tongue (scent = the Wild Hunt), or a number of others.

Lesser: Charm, Enthralling Voice, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Mask of Flesh, Walk Unseen, and Witchwood Step are all pretty damn fey-like.

Greater: Nightmares Made Real, Devil's Whispers, and Painful Slumber of the Ages are both filled to the brim with fey-fluff. Noxious Blast, Vitriolic Blast, or Repelling Blast are all invocations that are quite good and no trouble to fluff as faerie magic. Chilling Tentacles could be refluffed as vines bursting from the ground (EDIT: as was mentioned prior by Thrice Dead Cat). Eldritch Cone could give your Eldritch Blast some handy area damage and really doesn't need much fluff at all. Depending on the kind of fey you're emulating, something like Wall of Perilous Flame (make it look different to signify it's faerie fire and not hellfire) or Tenacious Plague wouldn't be out of place either.

Dark: Word of Changing. Can you get any more fey? Other good choices that are quite believable as gifts from some powerful fey lord are Path of Shadow, Greater Fell Flight, Retributive Invisibility, and Steal Summoning. Caster's Lament or Dark Foresight wouldn't be out of place either, nor would Instill Vulnerability.

Boom. Feylock.

EDIT: For even more faerie goodness, you could PrC into Arcane Trickster to focusing on the tricky stab-you-in-the-back fae, Virtuoso for that faerie song and dance, or Wild Mage for some extra fun. You could also go Ruathar, and then Swanmay.

Leon
2009-12-08, 12:23 AM
How do you figure?

Because it talks about the possibilities of where Warlocks get their power from and mentions a number of different ones before completely forgetting what it just said and the rest of the entry is Demon powered fiery doom

Spearmint for Fey

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 12:38 AM
No love for the Witch? :smallfrown: Have someone playing it in my game right now, perfectly servicable (though his is mirror and number-based).

It's homebrewed is why no love ><

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 12:39 AM
Fey Warlock Invocations:

Least: Beguiling Influence, Call of the Beast, Entropic Warding. Other possibilities could be Leaps and Bounds (especially if you multiclass Rogue or take your first level in Factotum with Able Learner or something), Dark One's Own Luck (those lucky faeries), Serpent's Tongue (scent = the Wild Hunt), or a number of others.

Lesser: Charm, Enthralling Voice, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Mask of Flesh, Walk Unseen, and Witchwood Step are all pretty damn fey-like.

Greater: Nightmares Made Real, Devil's Whispers, and Painful Slumber of the Ages are both filled to the brim with fey-fluff. Noxious Blast, Vitriolic Blast, or Repelling Blast are all invocations that are quite good and no trouble to fluff as faerie magic. Chilling Tentacles could be refluffed as vines bursting from the ground (EDIT: as was mentioned prior by Thrice Dead Cat). Eldritch Cone could give your Eldritch Blast some handy area damage and really doesn't need much fluff at all. Depending on the kind of fey you're emulating, something like Wall of Perilous Flame (make it look different to signify it's faerie fire and not hellfire) or Tenacious Plague wouldn't be out of place either.

Dark: Word of Changing. Can you get any more fey? Other good choices that are quite believable as gifts from some powerful fey lord are Path of Shadow, Greater Fell Flight, Retributive Invisibility, and Steal Summoning. Caster's Lament or Dark Foresight wouldn't be out of place either, nor would Instill Vulnerability.

Boom. Feylock.

EDIT: For even more faerie goodness, you could PrC into Arcane Trickster to focusing on the tricky stab-you-in-the-back fae, Virtuoso for that faerie song and dance, or Wild Mage for some extra fun. You could also go Ruathar, and then Swanmay.

Except most of those invocations have a more Demon feel to them then Fey.

Thurbane
2009-12-08, 12:40 AM
You could reflavor a Binder, so that his vestiges are powerful Fey spirits...

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 12:40 AM
Because it talks about the possibilities of where Warlocks get their power from and mentions a number of different ones before completely forgetting what it just said and the rest of the entry is Demon powered fiery doom

Spearmint for Fey


As I said, it's just a paragraph of fluff, no mechanic changes.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 12:41 AM
You could reflavor a Binder, so that his vestiges are powerful Fey spirits...

Like I said, you can reflavor nearly anything in DnD to meet any theme. I'm looking for specifically fey stuff.

Serpentine
2009-12-08, 12:46 AM
It's homebrewed is why no love ><
Winner, Corenucopia core class competition: This Should Be Official [1st Place], Best Overall [2nd Place], Best Spellcasting class [2nd Place]. It's not just homebrewed, it won an official Wizards of the Coast competition. Unfortunately, I can't find the original contest, but it's still a perfectly viable class.

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-08, 12:52 AM
As I said, it's just a paragraph of fluff, no mechanic changes.

Small bit of a bother to me, so I apologize in advance. However, just because I describe my wizard's fireball as being blue does not suddenly make it do cold damage. Having my wizard's bands of steel spell appear as woodenstocks does not make it any more susceptible to fire damage (or damage at all, really).

In some roleplaying games, the mechanics are bound hand-to-hand, hip-to-hip with the flavor of the game. DND is not one of those games. If I want my wizard to be a freakin' shark that fires lazors out of his head, then I'll use Alter Self or Disguise self to look like said freakin' shark and begin to use describe scorching ray thusly. Could I have used the Ocular Spell feat? Yes, but that doesn't mean I can't just as easily describe the rays coming from my eyeballs as well.[/rant]

As for other classes that work to this in, Fist of the Forest may help you, as would Forest Reeve and Holt Warden, all from Complete Champion. Also, since no one has said it yet: Druid 20.

The_Snark
2009-12-08, 12:53 AM
Like I said, you can reflavor nearly anything in DnD to meet any theme. I'm looking for specifically fey stuff.

Why? What, specifically, do you want out of your fey stuff?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but it sounds like you're looking for a particular feel and not finding it. If you're just curious about what officially fey-related character material Wizards has published... you're probably going to be disappointed (I am). There's the Fey Heritage feats from Complete Mage (which are designed for warlocks but work for anybody), the Wild Soul prestige class from the same book (which, infuriatingly, doesn't work at all for warlocks)... and a few monster races with level adjustment; the only notable ones I can think of are the pixie, naiad (Stormwrack), gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), half-fey, feytouched, and maybe the nymph.

There's also some material in this old column (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/fey), but it's all 3.0.

Serpentine
2009-12-08, 12:55 AM
Bendraesar, aside from Snark's question, what sort of level are you going for? I think I'm gonna have a go at making the feyest fey-type fey-being I can (using material meant for characters - I don't think I'll make a dryad character, for example).

Anonanimal
2009-12-08, 12:57 AM
Except most of those invocations have a more Demon feel to them then Fey.

I don't understand why you think that's so. Taking Beguiling Influence, Call of the Beast, and Entropic Warding as your first level invocations, you have a character whose words are irresistible due to their supernatural beauty and allure, can speak to woodland creatures and to an extent control them, is supernaturally quick (20% miss chance on ranged attacks), leaves no trail, and can't be tracked by scent. This is by 4th level.

Get into lesser invocations and take Charm, Enthralling Voice, and Fell Flight and we upgrade that irresistible beauty and honeyed tongue. You can talk to creatures and fascinate them with your fae-given beauty, goad them into doing your dirty work, and you even have some faerie wings you can zip around with 24/7. Hell, rename it Fae Flight if the "Fell" part bothers you. Add Flyby Attack and you're screwing with people as you fly out of range. You can have a character that never stops moving, essentially. Alternatively, Curse of Despair means that all of those faerie curses you read about in essentially every faerie story is at your fingertips, or you're turning invisible to play tricks on ill-fated travelers.

Then we have greater invocations. With Nightmares Made Real, Painful Slumber of the Ages, and Devil's Whispers, you have someone who can turn an area into a mini-Feywild, plunge people into an endless slumber (perhaps they think they're in a wonderful faerie dreamworld--this ability just SCREAMS fae), and your supernatural powers of persuasion have evolved even further. "Hey, if you do that incredibly dangerous thing, I'll give you a kiss." "OK!"

When dark invocations come around, you're turning people into frogs for inciting your wrath, flying faster than before (or flying for the first time) with those sparkly dragonfly wings, and are so damn pretty and persuasive you can convince the creatures your enemies summon to go ahead and serve you instead.

It is specifically said in the book that Warlock comes out in that some Warlocks make their powers by dealing with Fey, and taking these invocations gives you quintessential fey abilities. To me, these abilities are indisputably fae-specific, and though some qualities are shared with demons (the silver tongue), they're even more indicative of fey. It seems to me you're just thinking of something very different when you think of faerie powers.

Thurbane
2009-12-08, 12:57 AM
Like I said, you can reflavor nearly anything in DnD to meet any theme. I'm looking for specifically fey stuff.
Well then, in terms of classes/PrCs, Wild Soul is the only one I am aware of. Possibly Spirit Shaman, as already mentioned.

Leon
2009-12-08, 01:15 AM
As I said, it's just a paragraph of fluff, no mechanic changes.

The Mechanics are not based on them being demon powered - the abilities are just named that way for the most part

golentan
2009-12-08, 01:36 AM
Warlocks have DR *cold iron.* Cold frickin iron. Depending on the work anywhere from "The bane of fey," "The only advantage mortals have," or "Hot, painful fey death." Demons don't always get that treatment.

They have magic intrinsic in their blood, and must be chaotic if they're not evil. They have all of the powers previously mentioned. They fit Fey so well that I made a half fey character angered because he wasn't accepted into the Seelie court, who took levels of warlock so he could face Sidhe and point out *he was more fey then them.* If they don't fit, nothing possibly will. If you're looking for something really specific, describe exactly what you mean when you ask for "fey flavor," and we'll tell you what, if anything, fits.

P.S. And I've got some love for the witch, serp. But the formatting seems not to have survived...

Darrin
2009-12-08, 06:37 AM
Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20040507a) on the WotC website.

deuxhero
2009-12-08, 12:03 PM
The Giant has made a series of Fey Druid feats (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/3CsX278ZDGQQ62al3RP.html).

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 03:44 PM
It's not just homebrewed, it won an official Wizards of the Coast competition. Unfortunately, I can't find the original contest, but it's still a perfectly viable class.

Well, a DM is more likely to allow the actual Witch beta class then that one in my experience.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 03:46 PM
Small bit of a bother to me, so I apologize in advance. However, just because I describe my wizard's fireball as being blue does not suddenly make it do cold damage. Having my wizard's bands of steel spell appear as woodenstocks does not make it any more susceptible to fire damage (or damage at all, really).

In some roleplaying games, the mechanics are bound hand-to-hand, hip-to-hip with the flavor of the game. DND is not one of those games. If I want my wizard to be a freakin' shark that fires lazors out of his head, then I'll use Alter Self or Disguise self to look like said freakin' shark and begin to use describe scorching ray thusly. Could I have used the Ocular Spell feat? Yes, but that doesn't mean I can't just as easily describe the rays coming from my eyeballs as well.[/rant]

As for other classes that work to this in, Fist of the Forest may help you, as would Forest Reeve and Holt Warden, all from Complete Champion. Also, since no one has said it yet: Druid 20.

But then that defeats the purpose of the thread. Why bother even asking the OP question if I was just going to restyle something to fit the flavor?

Haven't read Forest Reeve or Holt Warden so thanks for the suggestion.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 03:47 PM
Why? What, specifically, do you want out of your fey stuff?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but it sounds like you're looking for a particular feel and not finding it. If you're just curious about what officially fey-related character material Wizards has published... you're probably going to be disappointed (I am). There's the Fey Heritage feats from Complete Mage (which are designed for warlocks but work for anybody), the Wild Soul prestige class from the same book (which, infuriatingly, doesn't work at all for warlocks)... and a few monster races with level adjustment; the only notable ones I can think of are the pixie, naiad (Stormwrack), gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e), half-fey, feytouched, and maybe the nymph.

There's also some material in this old column (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/fey), but it's all 3.0.

The is all I'm looking for. Clearly Fey material printed by Wizards. And 3.0 is fine, it can be easily updated.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 03:50 PM
Warlocks have DR *cold iron.* Cold frickin iron. Depending on the work anywhere from "The bane of fey," "The only advantage mortals have," or "Hot, painful fey death." Demons don't always get that treatment.

They have magic intrinsic in their blood, and must be chaotic if they're not evil. They have all of the powers previously mentioned. They fit Fey so well that I made a half fey character angered because he wasn't accepted into the Seelie court, who took levels of warlock so he could face Sidhe and point out *he was more fey then them.* If they don't fit, nothing possibly will. If you're looking for something really specific, describe exactly what you mean when you ask for "fey flavor," and we'll tell you what, if anything, fits.

P.S. And I've got some love for the witch, serp. But the formatting seems not to have survived...

Most Demons have DR that is bypassed by Cold Iron as well.

Optimystik
2009-12-08, 03:51 PM
Almost all of the Warlock class as in Complete Arcane is obviously Demon based and very few of the new invocations in Complete Mage could even be argued as Fey based.

Just because the sample NPC is called "Morthos" doesn't mean that Warlocks are all demonic. Try reading CArc a bit more closely next time.

From Complete Arcane pg. 6, "Warlocks: Background":

"Warlocks are not half-fiends or tieflings by default (although many creatures of those kinds become some of the most powerful and terrifying representatives of the class). The mark that the supernatural powers leave on their servants is often a mark in the soul, not the flesh. In fact, many warlocks are created by nonevil powers—wild or fey forces that can be every bit as dangerous as demons or devils. Whatever their origin, warlocks are widely feared and misunderstood. Most are wanderers who rarely stay in one place for long."

Also, everything Anonanimal said.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 03:51 PM
Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20040507a) on the WotC website.

Thank you.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 03:53 PM
Just because the sample NPC is called "Morthos" doesn't mean that Warlocks are all demonic. Try reading CArc a bit more closely next time.

From Complete Arcane pg. 6, "Warlocks: Background":

"Warlocks are not half-fiends or tieflings by default (although many creatures of those kinds become some of the most powerful and terrifying representatives of the class). The mark that the supernatural powers leave on their servants is often a mark in the soul, not the flesh. In fact, many warlocks are created by nonevil powers—wild or fey forces that can be every bit as dangerous as demons or devils. Whatever their origin, warlocks are widely feared and misunderstood. Most are wanderers who rarely stay in one place for long."

Also, everything Anonanimal said.

And yet again. That is just fluff.

I would not have bothered even making a thread if I would be satisfied with just restyling something. I don't need a thread or other people for just that.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 03:55 PM
The Giant has made a series of Fey Druid feats (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/3CsX278ZDGQQ62al3RP.html).

Aren't these homebrewed?

Optimystik
2009-12-08, 04:08 PM
And yet again. That is just fluff.

In a thread about "Flavor," most of your responses are going to be fluff-related. I'm glad you've finally realized that.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-08, 04:09 PM
And yet again. That is just fluff.

I would not have bothered even making a thread if I would be satisfied with just restyling something. I don't need a thread or other people for just that.

yes as well as saying the invocations have a demonic feal to them as that feel is fluff... Warlocks are fluff and mechanical wise fey... **** if they weren't why would fey heritage interact with warlocks?

its really not changing any thing... that's the thing.

Actually if any thing your prolly gonna do more work changing the 3.0 stuff to 3.5 then to as you say "refluff" the warlock.

Leon
2009-12-08, 04:18 PM
And yet again. That is just fluff.

I would not have bothered even making a thread if I would be satisfied with just restyling something. I don't need a thread or other people for just that.

The "fluff" is exactly what the Example warlock has on it - they chose to use Demonic/Devil fluff over Fey/Slaadi/Celestial fluff

Nothing in the way a Warlock works requires it to be any particular power source

Amphetryon
2009-12-08, 04:20 PM
I'm most likely belaboring a point here; forgive me.

Could someone explain how anything that points to the Warlock being 'demon-flavored' is not fluff, while anything that points to the Warlock being 'fey-flavored' is fluff? There's a distinction being made that I'm not grasping the root of.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 04:24 PM
I'm most likely belaboring a point here; forgive me.

Could someone explain how anything that points to the Warlock being 'demon-flavored' is not fluff, while anything that points to the Warlock being 'fey-flavored' is fluff? There's a distinction being made that I'm not grasping the root of.

Because the primary fluff around the Warlock class is Demon/Devil related. Yes there are a few tid bit mentions on how you can look at them as being descended other wise, but they are just alternate options.

Edit: Also, I'm done with this point with this post. Complain about my interpretation if you want, I'm just going to ignore your posts.

Amphetryon
2009-12-08, 04:32 PM
Because the primary fluff around the Warlock class is Demon/Devil related. Yes there are a few tid bit mentions on how you can look at them as being descended other wise, but they are just alternate options.

Edit: Also, I'm done with this point with this post. Complain about my interpretation if you want, I'm just going to ignore your posts.
Please note that my question pertained to why the Demon/Devil (not the same in D&D) related material in the writeup was NOT fluff. The argument thus far has been that XX is invalid because it's just fluff, while ignoring the fact that the prima fasia case is built on fluff.

Optimystik
2009-12-08, 04:32 PM
I'm most likely belaboring a point here; forgive me.

Could someone explain how anything that points to the Warlock being 'demon-flavored' is not fluff, while anything that points to the Warlock being 'fey-flavored' is fluff? There's a distinction being made that I'm not grasping the root of.

The "distinction," if you can call it that, is merely that the OP is voluntarily ignoring the established background of the class as written.

OP: Hey guys, I need a fey-related class.
Us: Warlocks can be fey-related.
OP: What? No they can't.
Us: WotC mentions it in every Warlock supplement. They even gave them heritage feats in CM, and carried their fey nature over to 4e.
OP: NO U!!!111!1

Well, I suppose all Warlocks really are fiendish in origin. That would explain their "Always Evil" alignment tag! Oh, wait.

hamishspence
2009-12-08, 04:33 PM
I think the problem is the assumption that one bit is primary, and one secondary.

If the only complaint is things like "Brimstone blast" "Hellrime blast" don't sound fey enough- give them fey names.

Coming up with ways to "fey-ify" the things that don't sound "fey enough" might take a little work.

Keshay
2009-12-08, 04:43 PM
{scrubbed}

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-08, 04:50 PM
{scrubbed}

ya agreed... its not like it was even that far fetched.

The White Knight
2009-12-08, 04:51 PM
I once wrote out the vast majority of the warlock's invocations as tech-flavored for a warforged warlock I wanted to play. Lasers (or flamethrowers, freeze rays, blahblahblah), jet propulsion, cloaking device, deflection shields, etc. By that point it doesn't feel like a warlock at all, and I didn't even touch the mechanics. Fluff is more powerful than some people give it credit.

If you want something that is "Fey flavored" as written, play a Druid. There's pretty much nothing more fey-like than casting nature magic and being best buds with animals. They even have a class feature that makes them resistant to spells cast by other fey.

deuxhero
2009-12-08, 04:52 PM
Aren't these homebrewed?

Technically yes, but The Giant has written first party books.

Tanuki Tales
2009-12-08, 04:53 PM
Technically yes, but The Giant has written first party books.

I'll look into them.

Optimystik
2009-12-08, 05:00 PM
I think the problem is the assumption that one bit is primary, and one secondary.

If the only complaint is things like "Brimstone blast" "Hellrime blast" don't sound fey enough- give them fey names.

Coming up with ways to "fey-ify" the things that don't sound "fey enough" might take a little work.

It's not as hard as it sounds to me. Certain key words give Warlock abilities their fiendish flavor - Dark, Blast, Hell, Fell, Curse, Plague, Miasma etc. Changing those to more Fey names does half your work for you. For instance, Curse becomes Hex, Blast becomes Sting, Dark becomes Wild, Miasma becomes Mist and of course, Fell becomes Fey.

That took me all of 10 seconds - anyone actually putting effort into it could easily update the whole class.

golentan
2009-12-08, 05:01 PM
Most Demons have DR that is bypassed by Cold Iron as well.

Yes. In dnd. That isn't essential to their demon-ness, though. It's a feature that designers threw in because Devils had DR, and they wanted Demons to have the same DR, but different in keeping with their fiendish antagonists subplot.

But I have yet to find a single work, in centuries of fairy tales, legends, myths, novels, etc., where cold iron is not harmful to Fey. It is almost their sole defining feature, apart from weirdness, and being lawful chaotic. (Perfect adherence to their code. None may break the code. But let's have three cheers for going completely, mindboggling literal minded about it, so we can still do things that we seemed to agree not to!)

For fey flavor in your mechanics, you want three things. A touch of the supernatural, as fey tend to be about magic in naturalist style. A Chaotic Lawful outlook. And DR cold iron. That's if you want to be "more fey." You can accomplish this with Warlock, Druid (to a certain extent), Sorcerer (with Fey heritage feats), and/or the half fey advancement class here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). You could also be a Pixie, or one of the other sprites with an LA. Elves can also be modified to be Sidhe like. Goblins and Trolls are even fey in some legends, but not in DnD.

If you want to KILL "More Fey," you want to be able to ignore illusions and supernatural. And you want to carry triple your body weight in cold iron, at all times, preferably sleeping with in a closed box lined with cold iron "just in case." Because that's the only thing that's good against them across the board, and they are scary, scary creatures if you manage to make them mad. And you don't know what could set them off. Recommendations: Go Gish. You want the ability to stab things to make their magic stop. And you want to have enough magic that you're not helpless against the tricksy fey foe.

My advice, though, is when you ask for help and the overwhelming response to your question is one thing: Do. Not. Brush. It. Off. You're opposed to simple fluff explanations (when the mechanics fit as well), but your complaints are based off of fluff? Then we ask for clarification on what you're looking for, and you ignore it. So, you're not going to find what you're looking for at this rate: We've told you where to find it. You told us that wasn't it. And now you won't even give us a ballpark to play with. Everything that's been given that you LIKED also could have been accomplished by a google search (Fey + www.wizards.com) so I'm feeling a bit annoyed about that, as well.

Shademan
2009-12-08, 05:10 PM
are there any mechanical reasons for your need-for-fey?

Anonanimal
2009-12-08, 06:21 PM
Here's the thing, though. If you go with a fey-flavored Warlock, you're not changing any fluff. You're using fluff that is described in the very book it comes in--you're using fluff that came with the original package. It's like you're asking for a spellcaster that doesn't use a spellbook and is super-charismatic rather than super-intelligent. If you want the character's "theme" to be that he gets his powers from the God of Magic who grants them to him directly and use the Sorcerer to do it, then yeah, you're refluffing the Sorcerer to be the Favored Soul. But that's not what you're doing. In this case (for the metaphor--I'm not saying that this is literally what you want), you want this charismatic spellcaster without a spellbook to get his power from , and then turning down the sorcerer because the fluff mentions dragon heritage as a reason for sorcerers and that's the reason most people fixate on. [I]But the suggestion for the other fluff is a sentence afterward.

Fey heritage is built into the Warlock, by Wizards of the Coast. It is not refluffing, it is using fluff the writers suggested.

SaintRidley
2009-12-08, 06:28 PM
Wildrunner, Races of the Wild. You become a fey. Good enough for you?

Amphetryon
2009-12-08, 06:58 PM
Wildrunner, Races of the Wild. You become a fey. Good enough for you?

Doesn't address the Warlock's inherent flavor, so I'd guess it's a no.

SaintRidley
2009-12-08, 07:05 PM
Doesn't address the Warlock's inherent flavor, so I'd guess it's a no.

Not trying to address the Warlock issue at all.

Primarily because it shouldn't be an issue.

golentan
2009-12-08, 08:03 PM
Wildrunner is a good 'un, for this. But it's clearly demon inspired with the DR cold iron. /invisible snark

Thrice Dead Cat
2009-12-08, 08:17 PM
Ruathar, from Races of the Wild should also be kosher, although it's a little light on fey and more heavily focused on elves. Should be close enough for you, however.

brant167
2009-12-08, 08:22 PM
There is a druid class varient from a old dragon mag. that focuses on fey stuff that can be found at www.crystalkeep.com. Lots of cool flavor.

brant167
2009-12-08, 08:23 PM
There is a druid class varient from a old dragon mag. that focuses on fey stuff that can be found at www.crystalkeep.com. Lots of cool flavor.

More preciesly pg 34 of this document
http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf