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Grifthin
2009-12-08, 03:08 AM
Here's a question - a few months ago I wanted to play a character that duel wields crossbows. I rolled up the character but havn't started playing. Now we are going to allow psionics for the first time in our campaign. My fellow forum members here have advised me to drop the soulknife and use psychic warrior. Is it possible to combine the two ? A psychic Warrior that duelwields crossbows ? What powers would I pick ? What would be the most important stats ? What humonoid race would you recommend ?

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-08, 03:29 AM
Well, you won't need Strength much, and a high Dex and speed would help considerably. For race, I'd say xeph or dromite would work nicely.

You'll want EWP: Repeating Crossbow, of course, as well as Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot. Tossing on an Item Familiar would be good, since you have one summoned weapon, and can get an IF with for the other one. If you have a flying mount (or metamorphosis and your psicrystal), take Flyby Attack to Rapid Shot in midair. Linked Power (and a swift-action buff) to buff yourself and your weapons while not interfering with your ability to be a pain in the arse (the pain of which I speak is an arrow).

You might want to see about the compression power for the extra Dex, AC, and to-hit bonuses. One of the crossbows should be of speed. Any power that adds damage, such as weapon of energy, and strength of my enemy would be good as a debuff. Basically, anything to make the enemy HURT is good.

Go mounted archer, and pump up your Ride skill. Grab a bunch of items from the Magic Item Compendium to add d6's to your shots.

Get a bunch of arrows of different kinds (especially adamantine, cold iron, and alchemical silver). See if the party arcanist will make you a bunch of explosive runes-inscribed arrows (or at least fletching), which he can then dispel (or you can, if one of your crossbows has the suppression quality). Failure to dispel will set off every explosive runes the enemy has attached, which are d6's of force damage that are extremely difficult to resist (SR only).

There are all sorts of nifty ideas you can pull for an archer. Your bows should eventually have (split between them) splitting, force, speed, and suppression, with other abilities attached as they occur to you.

Ganurath
2009-12-08, 03:48 AM
I agree with Lycan for the most part, but I'm going to have to denounce Weapon of Energy in favor of Dissolving Weapon. In order for WoE to beat DW for number of d6s of damage, you need to land five hits with each crossbow. And frankly, if you're opponent isn't dead by the time you've gotten ten hits into the suck, something's going wrong. Granted, DW is one shot, but it lasts until you get a successful hit in, while WoE is round/level. With two weapons, I'd rather spend two rounds where I know I'm safe buffing for my next fight over spending the first two rounds of combat buffing for the third. Nevermind that DW costs substantially fewer power points...

Pluto
2009-12-08, 04:16 AM
Is it possible to combine the two ? A psychic Warrior that duelwields crossbows ?
Sure it is.
You might need help reloading, but there are ways around that.

You'll probably want to look at these feats:
--Hand crossbow proficiency.
--Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot at level 1. You might want to retrain these if you ever gain access to a Precise weapon (MIC).
--Rapid Reload. So you can shoot more than 1/round.
--Rapid Shot. There are problems using this with TWF, but once you work out the kinks, this will increase your damage.
-- Two-Weapon Fighting. These are obvious.
--Link Power (CPsi). This feat's good. Really good. If you're using Complete Psionic, pick it up as quickly as you can afford it.
--Psionic Meditation. If you take Link Power, you'll want this too.
--Zen Archery (CWarrior). If your Wisdom is much higher than your Dexterity (honestly, not likely, considering the prerequisite Dex for the TWF line), this can be a nice boost for your attack bonus.
--Expanded Knowledge (Schism) and (Metamorphosis) are to the Psychic Warrior as Natural Spell is to the Druid. But they don't show up until pretty far into the Psychic Warrior's career.

I recommend going Human with a first level dip into Rogue, using Unearthed Arcana's Feat Rogue ACF (trades Sneak Attack for Fighter feats at Fighter progression). This gives you free Hand Crossbow proficiency and two extra feats to play with early in the build. It also helps you use the Psychic Warrior to emulate the Soulknife, if you're still interested. (The Soulknife's role in 3.0 was a sneaky psionic character who could make a blade with its mind. Rogue level 1 skills with the Call weaponry feat achieve the same function in 3.5.)

To reload the crossbows, you might need to UMD wands of Unseen Servant. A Rogue dip will pay off again here. If you have access to the Magic Item Compendium, you'll want the Quick Loading enhancement as quickly as possible. If you don't, this sort of homebrew is the easiest thing in the world.

Complete Psionic has a few archery specific powers. I don't remember how good they were, but I remember seeing them there and in Races of the Wild. If you [I]need some two-weapon fighting or archery-specific abilities, you could always turn various Ranger spells into powers, if you were so inclined (there are some good ones in Complete Adventurer, Spell Compendium, Champions of Ruin and the PHB2).

Regardless, most powers will still be useful. As general rules:
--Avoid Natural Weapon and melee powers. You might want one in case you're dragged into melee, but if you're specializing in ranged combat, you're probably trying to avoid those situations.
--Avoid damage-dealing powers. They quickly eat your PP and their effects can be replicated with basic attacks. (In your case, dissolving weapon could be an exception.)
--Avoid redundant powers. If you already have Dimension Slide, Dimension Door isn't going to be a huge improvement.
--Don't feel you need to learn the highest-level powers available at every level. You aren't going to have the PP to keep them all funded.

erikun
2009-12-08, 04:23 AM
I should be sleeping, but whatever. :smalltongue:

The Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0) for general crossbowman necessities. Stuff like Crossbow Sniper feat (PHBII) is one that hasn't been mentioned - add half DEX bonus to crossbow damage.

And yes, reloading will be your biggest problem, as you don't have any hands free to reload the 6-8 shots you'll be firing every round. Unless you're a Thri-Kreen, but if you were going that route, you would just quad-wield crossbows.

DragoonWraith
2009-12-08, 04:44 AM
Point of interest: "duel" is a one on one fight designed to be as 'fair' as possible, with both combatants agreeing to a series of rules regarding the time of the fight, the allowed weapons and other equipment, etc etc. "Dual" means two, or both. I'm not entirely sure what "duel wielding" a crossbow would look like, but I imagine it'd be something like a Western shootout, but with crossbows.

Sorry for being pedantic, but mixing those two up is a major pet peeve of mine, so much so that I made a homebrew class (http://wiki.faxcelestis.net/index.php?title=Dualist) using the mix-up as a bad pun.

PinkysBrain
2009-12-08, 04:49 AM
You'll want EWP: Repeating Crossbow, of course
Srsly?

Even if we were to ignore the quickloading ability from MiC for a moment then simply taking Rapid Reload is better in all ways than taking EWP Repeating Crossbow.

Grifthin
2009-12-08, 05:18 AM
sorry Dragoon - my excitement got the best of me. :smallfrown:

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-08, 11:06 AM
I agree with Lycan for the most part, but I'm going to have to denounce Weapon of Energy in favor of Dissolving Weapon. In order for WoE to beat DW for number of d6s of damage, you need to land five hits with each crossbow. And frankly, if you're opponent isn't dead by the time you've gotten ten hits into the suck, something's going wrong. Granted, DW is one shot, but it lasts until you get a successful hit in, while WoE is round/level. With two weapons, I'd rather spend two rounds where I know I'm safe buffing for my next fight over spending the first two rounds of combat buffing for the third. Nevermind that DW costs substantially fewer power points...Nothing says he can't take both. He can use dissolving weapon for one big shot, and can use weapon of energy to spread damage around in larger mobs (there's nothing saying he's only going to be hitting big-hitting single monsters, though it's a distinct possibility that he will).

You can, of course, use Greater/Psionic Shot and Fell Shot to get in some larger hits. Might also want to be Chaotic or Evil and take Aligned Attack once you qualify, then hit yourself up with a (greater) chasuble of fell power, from CArc.

Check prevenom weapon; it can be used as a prebuff - it lasts until you land a hit or until you let go of the weapon) and if used on both weapons can deal 2 points of Con damage, which will get even better.

And if you get your bows made from deep crystal, you can add a bit more damage on top.

Too bad you're not using a regular bow; they're better in general. An elvencraft deep crystal (long-) bow of the wintermoon can be used as both a quarterstaff and a composite longbow, meaning you only have to buff one weapon and can use it in both melee and at range (uses fewer feats, too).


Srsly?

Even if we were to ignore the quickloading ability from MiC for a moment then simply taking Rapid Reload is better in all ways than taking EWP Repeating Crossbow.True, although they more or less end similarly: a feat spent to get off multiple shots. I accede that you're doing it better.

Grifthin
2009-12-08, 11:40 AM
Wouldn't it just be better to Mod your crossbows to carry more bolts per clip ?

What would the Craft DC be to modify the capacity by increments of 5 ? A Repeater Xbow with a clip of 25 would be pretty sweet.

Eldariel
2009-12-08, 11:45 AM
True, although they more or less end similarly: a feat spent to get off multiple shots. I accede that you're doing it better.

I prefer Spare Hand with Rapid Reload; gives you infinite shots with all the versatility on every one of them.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-08, 12:20 PM
I would highly recommend just going with one light xbow... take rapid relod and it will allow you to take all your attacks. I would also recommend psi shot and greater psi shot.
As well as X bow sniper... and the psi warrior power that increases dmg.

Static dmg is your friend.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-08, 12:29 PM
Too bad ranged weapons don't have good critical threat ranges. Dual-wielding crossbows with the collision property could help damage stack up fast.

You may wish to consider using your primary weapon (Ancestral Weapon or Item Familiar - or both simultaneously) for general purpose slaughter, and your call weaponry power as a backup weapon for specialty cases, since you can rebuild it on the fly. Things like bane, distance, flaming, frost, merciful, shock, seeking, anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy, and brilliant energy.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-08, 01:08 PM
Too bad ranged weapons don't have good critical threat ranges. Dual-wielding crossbows with the collision property could help damage stack up fast.

You may wish to consider using your primary weapon (Ancestral Weapon or Item Familiar - or both simultaneously) for general purpose slaughter, and your call weaponry power as a backup weapon for specialty cases, since you can rebuild it on the fly. Things like bane, distance, flaming, frost, merciful, shock, seeking, anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy, and brilliant energy.

are there any high crit range xbows i know most are 19-20 so even with improved crit its only 17-20...

collision is good any way from what i remember +5 dmg is pritty good. better then any of the elemental dmg abilities.

Eldariel
2009-12-08, 03:24 PM
Too bad ranged weapons don't have good critical threat ranges. Dual-wielding crossbows with the collision property could help damage stack up fast.

You may wish to consider using your primary weapon (Ancestral Weapon or Item Familiar - or both simultaneously) for general purpose slaughter, and your call weaponry power as a backup weapon for specialty cases, since you can rebuild it on the fly. Things like bane, distance, flaming, frost, merciful, shock, seeking, anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy, and brilliant energy.

Great Crossbow is 18-20. Getting 'em to reload quick enough takes work tho.

avr
2009-12-08, 03:39 PM
One other idea, only if wind wall or weather conditions are likely to be a part often.

Siege weapons face reduced or no penalties from these things.

A ballista is a Huge heavy crossbow.

A goliath or half-giant with expansion can use Huge weaponry.

See where I'm going here?

Edit; to dual-wield you'll want to convince your GM that Huge light crossbows would be close enough. Worth trying IMO.

Eldariel
2009-12-08, 03:50 PM
Edit; to dual-wield you'll want to convince your GM that Huge light crossbows would be close enough. Worth trying IMO.

Great Crossbow is basically Large Heavy Crossbow (with improved Crit-range) meaning Large Great Crossbow is like a Huge Heavy Crossbow, so all it takes is Strongarm Bracers and EWP for a medium character to dual wield those Ballistas.