epic feats pre-epic

[Kwinza]

hey guys i've heard there are a few ways of getting epic feats pre-epic, and was wondering if u can tell me a few?
like one that i saw was taking a dragon template and being old because they get there epic feats based on there age. (what book was that in btw?)

cheers guy =]

[erikun]

You might want to check the Simple Q&A (3.5e version) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123431) threat to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure you cannot take epic level feats unless your ECL is 21 or higher. Monsters cannot take epic feats unless they have 21 HD or more.

Please note, though, that this doesn't mean CR 21 or more. Several creatures, especially dragons, have more HD than CR. A young adult to mature adult Gold Dragon, for instance, will have 20-28 HD, but are only CR 14-19. (You'll definitely want to confirm this in the Q&A thread.)

You can use "epic skills", though. This is because there's no limit to how high you can roll on a skill check. The "epic skill results" are expected in epic levels, not limited to them.

[Temet Nosce]

You might want to check the Simple Q&A (3.5e version) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123431) threat to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure you cannot take epic level feats unless your ECL is 21 or higher. Monsters cannot take epic feats unless they have 21 HD or more.

I'm fairly sure there are ways around this although I only vaguely remember one.

I recall a thread on the WotC forums a few months back (right around the time they were ruined), that used a Dragonwrought Kobold polymorphed into a Duskgiant (to use cannibalize) to do it.

Ah, here we go. Epic casting at level 6 (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19977077/Epic_Casting_at_level_6__Tremble_before_my_Hellbal l__New_nonPunPun_record?num=10&pg=1)

[kamikasei]

like one that i saw was taking a dragon template and being old because they get there epic feats based on there age. (what book was that in btw?)

Races of the Dragon. I believe it's the Dragonwrought template, which gives a kobold the Dragon type. In the same book kobolds are given age categories like dragons (wyrmling - great wyrm). These two things qualify them as True Dragons by the definition given in, I think, RotD again. This lets them choose epic feats once they're old enough, regardless of level.

Mind, many/most epic feats still have requirements that make them inaccessible - e.g. skill ranks.

[Tyndmyr]

The above post has it right.

However, there are still juicy things you can qualify for. Specifically, if you get level 9 spellcasting(ie, Ur priest or some such), you can use epic feats to get level 10+ in it. Also, you can get the epic stat boosts and epic toughness(+30 hp).

Some of these can be pretty useful at lower levels, and the dragonwrought kobold trick already lets you boost mental stats via age.

[Cyclocone]

However, there are still juicy things you can qualify for. Specifically, if you get level 9 spellcasting(ie, Ur priest or some such), you can use epic feats to get level 10+ in it. Also, you can get the epic stat boosts and epic toughness(+30 hp).

Multispell also only requires Quicken and 9ths.

Although at that point you might as well just go RKV.

[Starbuck_II]

Epic Feats with few preqs:
1) Additional Magic Item
2) Armor Skin
3) Combat Archery
4) Damage Reduction
5) Dire Charge (although rather weak)
6) Energy Resistance
7) Enhance Spell
8) Epic Fort
9) Epic Prowess
10) Epic Reflex
11) Epic Reputation
12) Epic Speed
13) Epic Spell Penetration
14) Epic Toughness
15) Epic Will
16) Exceptional Deflection
17) Expanded life span
18) Great Charisma
19) Great Con
20) Great Dex
21) Great Int
22) Great Str
23) Great Wisdom
24) Holy Strike
25) Improved Combat Reflexes
26) Improved Darkvision
27) Improved Low light Vision
28) Improved Spell Capacity (Prcs usually)
29) Improved SR
30) Improved Stunning Fist
31) Inatant reload
32) Penetrate DR
33) Spectral Strike
34) Spellcasting Harrier
35) Superior Initiative

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Few things: Dragonwrought is a feat, not a template.
Draconomicon introduced the definition of True Dragon that made Dragonwrought Kobolds qualify and the rules about dragons gaining epic feats through age

[sofawall]

Ah, here we go. Epic casting at level 6 (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19977077/Epic_Casting_at_level_6__Tremble_before_my_Hellbal l__New_nonPunPun_record?num=10&pg=1)

I remember that. Doc Roc was talking about ways to beat skill ranks for about a week before that. Yay Dusk Giants.

EDIT: Barghest was tried, and found wanting.

[Stormthorn]

Isnt their some incantrix classs or something that basicly gives you the Improved Metamagic epic feat pre-epic?

Other than that. Be a dragon. Or an aboleth with enough character levels to go over 21 HD. Because for most races you can select epic feats only "At 21st level, and every three levels thereafter" even if you somehow meet the prereqs.

[Kwinza]

could someone do me a massive favour and tell me the page numbers in the books that the info about getting epic feats by age is in please?
im dislexic and reading though it all sounds like pain lol

thank you VERY much ^_^

[kamikasei]

Or an aboleth with enough character levels to go over 21 HD.

That doesn't sound very pre-epic to me.

Sstoopidtallkid: thanks for the correction.

[Tyndmyr]

I remember that. Doc Roc was talking about ways to beat skill ranks for about a week before that. Yay Dusk Giants.

EDIT: Barghest was tried, and found wanting.

Nifty. Also, couldn't Loredrake be abused in conjunction with dragonwrought kobold? Only prereqs are being a dragon and having a spellcasting class, and it grants you an additional two caster levels...

Strikes me as reasonably useful in conjunction with the aforementioned dirty tricks.

[SaintRidley]

If you have a Void Disciple in the party, there's a few daily uses of Moment of Clarity, which can be used to temporarily gain the benefits of any feat (aside from ancestor feats). It only lasts a few rounds, but is a way.

Or, if you're in a weird situation where you play an Illithid, take levels in Illithid Savant. Gain skill ranks and feats from the brains you eats!

[Optimystik]

could someone do me a massive favour and tell me the page numbers in the books that the info about getting epic feats by age is in please?
im dislexic and reading though it all sounds like pain lol

thank you VERY much ^_^

Draconomicon page 66, "Epic Feats."

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Nifty. Also, couldn't Loredrake be abused in conjunction with dragonwrought kobold? Only prereqs are being a dragon and having a spellcasting class, and it grants you an additional two caster levels...

Strikes me as reasonably useful in conjunction with the aforementioned dirty tricks.It is. There are Kobold Sorcerer builds that end up using that, LA Buyoff, White Dragonspawn, and the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage to end up with something like 4 bonus levels of spellcasting.

Kobolds do everything better.

[Person_Man]

It's also worth mentioning that several awesome magic items are in the Epic section, but are affordable by pre-epic characters.

[root9125]

It is. There are Kobold Sorcerer builds that end up using that, LA Buyoff, White Dragonspawn, and the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage to end up with something like 4 bonus levels of spellcasting.

Kobolds do everything better.

Kobolds are great for cheese.

By which I mean you can cut their heads off and hold fondue in them!