Whisper Gnomes are Officially my favorite Race!

[WeeFreeMen]

Ok, so I was reading through "Races of Stone" and I was browsing through the Feats section when I found this:
-Silencing Strike [Racial] -
Req: Sneak attack and Whisper Gnome as Race
Benefit: You get to apply your Silence effect on any target you strike with your sneak attack just by expending one of the uses. However, NO SAVE!

So I propose to you 2 things,
1) Can anyone make me a decent "Mage-Slayer / SA" build with a Whisper Gnome and this feat? (Assuming the caster target isnt a Pun-Pun of chain gating..allow for sub-optimazation on the opponents part.)
2) What is your favorite race? Do you combo a certain feat with that race ALL the time? For flavor? Build? (Ex. I always used to put Improv. Initiative on my Elfs, the Elf image is always Sleek and agile, I thought the feat fit)

-Best of luck, thank you in advance.
Have fun :]

[Dusk Eclipse]

I agree with you, Whisper Gnomes are AWESOME, sadly none of my DM has let me play one :smallfrown:

[Gorgondantess]

I agree with you, Whisper Gnomes are AWESOME, sadly none of my DM has let me play one :smallfrown:

That's likely because they're pretty cheesy.
My favorite race, personally, is either half-elf or tiefling. Fun fun.:smallcool:

[lvl 1 sharnian]

Nothing special for me, just the typical Dragonwrought Kobolds and Able Learner Humans, although now I usually pick Otherworldly if I go Elves

[Dusk Eclipse]

That's likely because they're pretty cheesy.
My favorite race, personally, is either half-elf or tiefling. Fun fun.:smallcool:

Maybe, but still they are awesome.... maybe If I put a LA+1 on them.... hmmm

[Sir Homeslice]

Maybe, but still they are awesome.... maybe If I put a LA+1 on them.... hmmm

LA+1 would make them suck.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Elf, because they get Eternal Blade which just seems awesome to me.

[ericgrau]

I don't think there's much to it if you want a build with that feat. Just do exactly that. Some sneaky sneaky to make sure you get the first hit is good. As is a good speed and tumble (use an accelerated tumble, see tumble rules), plus a good initiative for random fights.

[Gnorman]

The only acceptable LA=0 races in D&D are:

Human.
Shield Dwarf.
Whisper Gnome.
Water Orc (Dragonborn optional).
Strongheart Halfling.
Lesser Tiefling.
Warforged.

If you're not playing one of them, you're losing out!

[Foryn Gilnith]

What's wrong with Lesser Aasimar, Lesser Zenithri, or Lesser Chaond? And I hear Neraph is half-decent.

[AirGuitarGod32]

The only acceptable LA=0 races in D&D are:

Human.
Shield Dwarf.
Whisper Gnome.
Water Orc (Dragonborn optional).
Strongheart Halfling.
Lesser Tiefling.

If you're not playing one of them, you're losing out!

So the racial vairant Arctic Dwarf is no good?
And who said lesser aasamir isn't good either?
and even the Raptoran is awesome...

[Talya]

I am playing a whisper gnome warblade in a campaign right now. No silencing strike though.

[Ladorak]

So the racial vairant Arctic Dwarf is no good?
And who said lesser aasamir isn't good either?
and even the Raptoran is awesome...

-4 Dex is a big old hit, even on straight melee builds, plus you lose out on stonecunning. I mean how often is icecunning going to come up? Alright for certain builds, I'd rather have a Shield Dwarf most of the time.

Lesser Aasamir is alright for certain builds... Generally I'd rather just have an extra feat though.

Raptoran is TERRIBLE

My fave races are Dwarf (Fluff), Human (Crunch) and Goliath (Because sometimes LA+1 is worth it... Not often though)

[Crafty Cultist]

The only acceptable LA=0 races in D&D are:

Human.
Shield Dwarf.
Whisper Gnome.
Water Orc (Dragonborn optional).
Strongheart Halfling.
Lesser Tiefling.

If you're not playing one of them, you're losing out!

What about warforged? all their immunities make them quite good

[Gnorman]

What about warforged? all their immunities make them quite good

Oops. That one should have been on the list, but I forgot it. Touche!

[aje8]

Human.
Shield Dwarf.
Whisper Gnome.
Water Orc (Dragonborn optional).
Strongheart Halfling.
Lesser Tiefling.
Your missing a few. You also need Grey Elf (Sometimes +2 int>Feat and small size), Wood Elf (Archer builds, +2 Str and Dex) and Lesser Assamir (+2 Cha and Wisdom. Great for Clerics, Druids and the like)

Though..... I'm not really sure when you'd play a Sheild Dwarf.

My personal favorite race is Grey Elf.

[Gnorman]

Your missing a few. You also need Grey Elf (Sometimes +2 int>Feat and small size), Wood Elf (Archer builds, +2 Str and Dex) and Lesser Assamir (+2 Cha and Wisdom. Great for Clerics, Druids and the like)

Though..... I'm not really sure when you'd play a Sheild Dwarf.

Nope, I knew about the others and chose to not put them on the list. Grey Elves are unacceptable even if you ignore all of the fluff-based reasons to hate elves (of which there are plenty, trust me, I hate hate hate hate elves and readily admit to being completely, utterly, irrevocably biased when it comes to this) - the only reason I want an INT bonus is on a wizard or a skillmonkey, and the lesser tiefling gives me that AND the DEX bonus without a CON or a STR hit. Grey Elves pale in comparison to the tiefling - the only reason to even look twice at an elf is for Abjurant Champion builds, and even then gishes are subpar. Archer builds are terrible. And aasimar are goody two-shoes namby-pambies, which is admittedly a more minor gripe but still a reason to not play one. I very rarely play classes that require CHA or WIS - I'm all about skillmonkeys and arcanists.

Dwarves are awesome for anything: a bonus to a stat that all classes need and a penalty to one that few do? +2 to saves against spells? The ability to wear heavy armor and not be slowed down? A culture that is paradoxically based on a stoic adherence to tradition and hard work while still consuming more ale per capita than most small nations?

Being a dwarf is basically like being superhuman - you're much harder to kill, you're that much more awesome, and you generally don't have any restrictions placed on you for it.

[AirGuitarGod32]

I like the Dwarf, in almost all incarnations, but Shield is not on my list.

Earth Dwarf = funny
Arctic Dwarf = Yeah, the -4 dex is a hit, but when being a Knight 6/ Deepstone Sentinal 5/Dwarven Defender whatever is a WALL, with a greataxe
Uluundir (?) Dwarf = Yeah, 4la sux, but it is good for epic players.
Dream Dwarf = Monk with big stone fists

anyways, PLZ post on my thread!!!

[aje8]

Nope, I knew about the others and chose to not put them on the list. Grey Elves are unacceptable even if you ignore all of the fluff-based reasons to hate elves (of which there are plenty, trust me, I hate hate hate hate elves and readily admit to being completely, utterly, irrevocably biased when it comes to this) - the only reason I want an INT bonus is on a wizard, and the lesser tiefling gives me that without a CON or a STR hit. Archer builds are terrible. And aasimar are goody two-shoes namby-pambies, which is admittedly a more minor gripe but still a reason to not play one.

Dwarves are awesome for anything: a bonus to a stat that all classes need and a penalty to one that few do? +2 to saves against spells? The ability to wear heavy armor and not be slowed down?

Being a dwarf is basically like being superhuman - you're much harder to kill, you're that much more awesome, and you generally don't have any restrictions placed on you for it.
Grey Elf: Fine, you're right. I'm just irrevocably biased towards Grey Elves.
Archer Builds are terrible. But..... I've played a terrible build before. There are reasons to play a wood elf still.
Your Assimir reason is simply ridiculous.

Everything you said about Dwarves is true. I reiterate: Why would I play one? Melee Build: Water Orc is better. Stealth Build: Whisper Gnome is WAY better. Wizard Build: Strongheart Halfling..... and then you don't really need more than 14 con so no real reason to play one. Cleric or Druid: Lesser Assimir. Or Human. But..... I don't really see why I would go dwarf in any of those cases. Is there a category of build I'm missing? Or is it basically just a decent but not the best option in all situations?

[Gnorman]

Grey Elf: Fine, you're right. I'm just irrevocably biased towards Grey Elves.
Archer Builds are terrible. But..... I've played a terrible build before. There are reasons to play a wood elf still.
Your Assimir reason is simply ridiculous.

Everything you said about Dwarves is true. I reiterate: Why would I play one? Melee Build: Water Orc is better. Stealth Build: Whisper Gnome is WAY better. Wizard Build: Strongheart Halfling..... and then you don't really need more than 14 con so no real reason to play one. Cleric or Druid: Lesser Assimir. Or Human. But..... I don't really see why I would go dwarf in any of those cases. Is there a category of build I'm missing? Or is it basically just a decent but not the best option in all situations?

I am absolutely in the wrong about lesser aasimar, and yet I will still not put them on my list because it is *my* list, and I don't want to play a lesser aasimar. But if it makes you feel better, yes, I admit, they are mechanically sound.

Dwarves, yeah - they're not the best choice for much of anything, but they're never a bad choice - just like humans. When it comes to Wizards, I'd rather have a CON bonus than a DEX one - fort saves and HP are going to be much more valuable to me than AC (which is irrelevant), reflex saves (which a smart DM won't toss your way very often), and ranged attack modifier (with the exception of some rays, RTAs, and the like, every action you spend plinking away is a wasted one). I'm never content with "just" 14 CON - the more I can squeeze out of a build, the better. Dwarves are surprisingly good wizards, despite their supposd bias against it, because they're just so durable. It's not so much the CON (though that helps) as it is the +10% resistance to hostile magic.

[aje8]

I am absolutely in the wrong about lesser aasimar, and yet I will still not put them on my list because it is *my* list, and I don't want to play a lesser aasimar. But if it makes you feel better, yes, I admit, they are mechanically sound.

Dwarves, yeah - they're not the best choice for much of anything, but they're never a bad choice - just like humans. When it comes to Wizards, I'd rather have a CON bonus than a DEX one - fort saves and HP are going to be much more valuable to me than AC (which is irrelevant), reflex saves (which a smart DM won't toss your way very often), and ranged attack modifier (with the exception of some rays, RTAs, and the like, every action you spend plinking away is a wasted one). I'm never content with "just" 14 CON - the more I can squeeze out of a build, the better. Dwarves are surprisingly good wizards, despite their supposd bias against it, because they're just so durable. It's not so much the CON (though that helps) as it is the +10% resistance to hostile magic.
Yeah but as a recent study shows, feats are good!

Human and/or Strongheart Halfling>Dwarf almost always.

[AirGuitarGod32]

Can I throw in my defense of the dwarf?

Dwarves make excellent tanks. A Deepstone Sentinal with Dwarven Defender on a knight/cleric base is a great tank. Playing "HP Keep-up" and drawing attention to yourself via Knight's Challenge (which for the party's rogue means free cheap shot via flanking with a +4) is a great "Tank & Spank" combination

[Yukitsu]

Grey elf. Hit points are for sissies.

[Foryn Gilnith]

If you play an Aasimar as a *****, that's your own damn fault and no failing of the race itself. Charisma is nice for a rebuking build (that's another 1/7th of a persistent spell)

[Yukitsu]

If you play an Aasimar as a *****, that's your own damn fault and no failing of the race itself. Charisma is nice for a rebuking build (that's another 1/7th of a persistent spell)

That point pretty much can also be applied to most elf hate.

[AirGuitarGod32]

If you play an Aasimar as a *****, that's your own damn fault and no failing of the race itself. Charisma is nice for a rebuking build (that's another 1/7th of a persistent spell)

Once again, Aasamir is good for divine characters

[quiet1mi]

I dunno, I am playing a Grey Elf Beguiler and I am glad I have that +1 Reflex from that +2 dex... As he is quite liberal with fireballs...

[Foryn Gilnith]

That point pretty much can also be applied to most elf hate.

Eh, there's established history and an official sourcebook detailing "elves are *******". Much less fluff for aasimars; easier to overlook.

[Gnorman]

Eh, there's established history and an official sourcebook detailing "elves are *******". Much less fluff for aasimars; easier to overlook.

That and aasimar are mechanically sound, while elves are not. A CON malus should have resulted in the entire race going extinct by now, what with their extremely slow reproductive rate.

I, for one, fully support the inevitable disappearance of the elven race. We don't even need to hasten fate's hand - they shall destroy themselves with their own arrogance and isolationism.

[Mushroom Ninja]

The only acceptable LA=0 races in D&D are:

Human.
Shield Dwarf.
Whisper Gnome.
Water Orc (Dragonborn optional).
Strongheart Halfling.
Lesser Tiefling.
Warforged.

If you're not playing one of them, you're losing out!

Your list has a disturbing lack of Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold.

[Lycanthromancer]

The web enhancement for kobolds make them an excellent race. Truly great (but only when they work to their strengths, like all kobolds).

Do necropolitans count? Because 0 LA undead have some fabulous immunities. Just find ways to avoid being turned and rebuked, and you're golden.

Dragonborn, depending on the race. A dragonborn gray elf is especially good, given that the Con penalty is negated.

Blue goblins really should be LA 0, given that they're actually less powerful than regular goblins (but they're officially LA +1, which sucks).

Neraphs are one of the very few outsider races that are LA 0, so they can get both outsider and construct metamorphosis forms (see: psicrystal).

Kalashtar. Kalashtar are remarkable.

And if in a psionic build, elan are pretty darned nifty.

Other than that, I usually reflavor humans and strongheart halflings, myself, when I'm not playing kobolds.

[BenTheJester]

I love playing kobolds on classes that revolve around Dragons(Dragonfire Adept, how I love you!).

The only Gray Elf I played was for a Beguiler, and she was great. I usually hate those sissy elves, but I liked playing this one.

Illumians are also a fun race to play with all the different options. I once played one who was abandonned as a baby and found a by a group of Paladins who tought he was an angel because of his golden sigil looking kind of like an halo and his blonde hair(apparently they had no ranks in Knowledge(Arcana)).


But, the universal best race remains Human. I just love that extra feat.



(It's also funny how often Aasimar is mispelled)

[Demons_eye]

Illumian and Illithid/Half Illithid are just kick ass.

[Foryn Gilnith]

(It's also funny how often Aasimar is mispelled)

Arseimar? :smallconfused:

What are you folks' experiences with Daelkyr Half-Bloods or whatever they're called?

[Gnorman]

Blue goblins really should be LA 0, given that they're actually less powerful than regular goblins (but they're officially LA +1, which sucks).

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes. If I can convince my DM to waive the LA, they're the only psionic choice.

[Vizzerdrix]

Arseimar? :smallconfused:

What are you folks' experiences with Daelkyr Half-Bloods or whatever they're called?

I was able to build a respectable ranger with enough pets (the extra hps the symionts grant made up for the crappy armor selection). The problem was, the FF symionts lack prices, and pricing the living breastplate is a pain (artifact level item my left bum cheek!)

[AirGuitarGod32]

I was able to build a respectable ranger with enough pets (the extra hps the symionts grant made up for the crappy armor selection). The problem was, the FF symionts lack prices, and pricing the living breastplate is a pain (artifact level item my left bum cheek!)

Haha. How about Hellbred? Two variants for the player with a wild side and/or a dark secret? I personally am running a Hellbred (body) Dragonborn of Bahamut (Heart) Knight 6/ Kensai 2 and see a bright future ahead for him

[gorfnab]

1)Whisper Gnome Rogue or Spellthief with Magic in the Blood, Craven, Silencing Strike, and Extra Silence.
Whisper Gnome
1. Rogue - Magic in the Blood, Silencing Strike, Craven, 2x flaws
2. Rogue
3. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF, Blindfight
4. Swashbuckler - Weapon Finesse
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Combat Reflexes
7. Rogue
8. Rogue
9. Monk - Cobra Strike ACF - Dodge - Carmendine Monk
10. Monk - Cobra Strike ACF, Spell Reflection ACF - Mobility
11. Shadowdancer
12. Shadowdancer - Spring Attack
13. Shadowdancer
14. Shadowdancer
15. Telfammar Shadowlord - Two Weapon Fighting
16. Telfammar Shadowlord
17. Telfammar Shadowlord
18. Telfammar Shadowlord - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
19. Telfammar Shadowlord
20. Telfammar Shadowlord

2)I like Beguilers for a race from Shining South. Currently playing a Beguiler Beguiler in a campaign.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Tibbits and Hengeyokai. Tiny or Fine sized with racial Dex bonuses. So nice on a Warlock.

You underestimate Raptorans. Non-magical flight is very nice for certain builds, and the Footbow is bar none the best weapon for an Archer out there.

Grey Elves. Who needs Con, I have FMI!

Anthropomorphic Bats. Because the above doesn't get enough books thrown at me.

Kobolds. Anything you can do, they can do better.

There are more things between Celestia and the Prime than are accounted for in your list.

[WeeFreeMen]

1)Whisper Gnome Rogue or Spellthief with Magic in the Blood, Craven, Silencing Strike, and Extra Silence.
Whisper Gnome
1. Rogue - Magic in the Blood, Silencing Strike, Craven, 2x flaws
2. Rogue
3. Rogue - Penetrating Strike ACF, Blindfight
4. Swashbuckler - Weapon Finesse
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Combat Reflexes
7. Rogue
8. Rogue
9. Monk - Cobra Strike ACF - Dodge - Carmendine Monk
10. Monk - Cobra Strike ACF, Spell Reflection ACF - Mobility
11. Shadowdancer
12. Shadowdancer - Spring Attack
13. Shadowdancer
14. Shadowdancer
15. Telfammar Shadowlord - Two Weapon Fighting
16. Telfammar Shadowlord
17. Telfammar Shadowlord
18. Telfammar Shadowlord - Improved Two Weapon Fighting
19. Telfammar Shadowlord
20. Telfammar Shadowlord

2)I like Beguilers for a race from Shining South. Currently playing a Beguiler Beguiler in a campaign.

Thank you greatly Sir.
Also, side note: I too am partial to Tiefling, I don't know what it is maybe the Darkness 1/Day or good Stat boosts. Maybe even the Tail. Also, I loved my Paladin / Crusader Aasimar (sp?). Overall, 2 great races, even if its a LA1.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Thank you greatly Sir.
Also, side note: I too am partial to Tiefling, I don't know what it is maybe the Darkness 1/Day or good Stat boosts. Maybe even the Tail. Also, I loved my Paladin / Crusader Aasimar (sp?). Overall, 2 great races, even if its a LA1.Lesser Planetouched. No LA, don't count as outsiders, keep all the other traits.

[Temotei]

Bonus feats rock for racial abilities. That said, I think the only two LA+0 races with that are the human and strongheart halfling.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Bonus feats rock for racial abilities. That said, I think the only two LA+0 races with that are the human and strongheart halfling.And Elves, past a certain level of cheese.

[Tanaric]

Bonus feats rock for racial abilities. That said, I think the only two LA+0 races with that are the human and strongheart halfling.

Azurins from Magic of Incarnum get a bonus feat in addition to 1 point of bonus essentia.

[Tyndmyr]

The only acceptable LA=0 races in D&D are:

Human.
Shield Dwarf.
Whisper Gnome.
Water Orc (Dragonborn optional).
Strongheart Halfling.
Lesser Tiefling.
Warforged.

If you're not playing one of them, you're losing out!

Grey Elf, Fire Elf are also awesome. Your list is a good set of races, but it doesn't encompass all the LA0 choices.

[WeeFreeMen]

Lesser Planetouched. No LA, don't count as outsiders, keep all the other traits.

Ah, see; that makes it much more useful, wish I knew about that a month ago :P Oh well.

Anyone else got any Whisper Gnome builds? Silencing Strike or not.
Just want to see what you guys can come up with for the class.
If I remember correctly there was a thread about a X-Bow slinger (Whisper Gnome) that used about 14 crossbows and the TWF line.

[Rogue 7]

Raptoran is TERRIBLE


What? They get wings for free. Wings. How is that not awesome?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Ah, see; that makes it much more useful, wish I knew about that a month ago :P Oh well.

Anyone else got any Whisper Gnome builds? Silencing Strike or not.
Just want to see what you guys can come up with for the class.
If I remember correctly there was a thread about a X-Bow slinger (Whisper Gnome) that used about 14 crossbows and the TWF line.Take the Dark template for further boosts to Hide, HiPS, and +10 move. Only +1 LA, and excellent for any stealthy build.

[Temotei]

Azurins from Magic of Incarnum get a bonus feat in addition to 1 point of bonus essentia.

Forgot about them. You're right.

As for elves...yeah. I suppose, but really, no DM who sees the abuse will rule that fair enough to use.

[Gnorman]

Grey Elf, Fire Elf are also awesome. Your list is a good set of races, but it doesn't encompass all the LA0 choices.

I would not call them "awesome." I would call them "occasionally advantageous, but easily out-shined by other choices."

I believe I explained why elves are not on my list already - CON malus. Fire Elves are better than Grey Elves, because I'd rather have a bit of carrying capacity than I would... social skills (blech) as a wizard, but still. Lesser Tiefling is everything you're looking for and more here, Chaos Shuffle be darned!

But remember, folks: it's my list. Yours will be different, and I won't judge you (too much) for it.

[Uin]

Arseimar? :smallconfused:

What are you folks' experiences with Daelkyr Half-Bloods or whatever they're called?Daelkyr Half-Bloods do not have much support which is their main problem. Since they have the Aberration type I give them as small boost in that they considered to have Aberrant Blood as a prereq for Aberrant feats without actually taking it. Even without however I would definitely play one because they are cool (grow a tentacle whip to give your touch attacks some range instead of taking Archmage Reach). I did create a sample Daelkyr Half-Blood Transmuter one time... :)

[Eldariel]

Eh, there's established history and an official sourcebook detailing "elves are *******". Much less fluff for aasimars; easier to overlook.

Eh, play a settings where Elves aren't *******. I don't recall FR Elves or Eberron Elves or any homebrew setting Elves being that bad. Let alone Tolkienish Elves. Living 600 years serves nicely to cultivate a slightly more objective world view.

[Uin]

Eh, play a settings where Elves aren't *******. I don't recall FR Elves or Eberron Elves or any homebrew setting Elves being that bad. Let alone Tolkienish Elves. Living 600 years serves nicely to cultivate a slightly more objective world view.Primer to Eberron Elves:
Deathless Voodoo Ancestor Worship
Honourable Warrior Ancestor Worship
Dragonmarked Spies and Assassins
City Slickers

[arguskos]

Eh, play a settings where Elves aren't *******. I don't recall FR Elves or Eberron Elves or any homebrew setting Elves being that bad. Let alone Tolkienish Elves. Living 600 years serves nicely to cultivate a slightly more objective world view.
People who don't like elves don't like them, for whatever reasons they have. Walk away from this conversation, before it gets heated and horrible. Also, SCOURGE THE GNOMES!!

[Ecalsneerg]

Elves live in forests.

Forests contain trees.

Trees are evil.

Is this unholy alliance not evidence enough!?

[Grifthin]

Why are Kalashtar a good race ?

[Gnorman]

Why are Kalashtar a good race ?

Tashalatora.

[Optimystik]

No love for Spellscales? They're freaking dragons!

Also, I second others in this thread who have added Necropolitans, Azurins, Illumians, and Kobolds to the list.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I would not call them "awesome." I would call them "occasionally advantageous, but easily out-shined by other choices."

I believe I explained why elves are not on my list already - CON malus. Fire Elves are better than Grey Elves, because I'd rather have a bit of carrying capacity than I would... social skills (blech) as a wizard, but still. Lesser Tiefling is everything you're looking for and more here, Chaos Shuffle be darned!

But remember, folks: it's my list. Yours will be different, and I won't judge you (too much) for it.Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Con penalty, yes, but is there anything sweeter than basing your HP off of your casting stat?

[Lycanthromancer]

Faerie Mysteries Initiate. Con penalty, yes, but is there anything sweeter than basing your HP off of your casting stat?Your logic makes the happy puppy SAD.

http://scienceblogs.com/ethicsandscience/upload/2006/09/sad_puppy.jpg

And even more happy.

[drengnikrafe]

I find myself greatly entertained by the arguements about races, and which ones are better for crunch reasons. I find myself playing whatever race makes sense for my character personality and backstory. Yes, sometimes I'll optimize, but perfect characters greatly outshine normal characters in games, and it makes it just... not fun.
So, go on, tell yourself that half-elves and half-orcs are terrible because their stat adjustments are sub-optimal. I happen to like the world of roleplaying opportunities they open up.

[AirGuitarGod32]

No love for Spellscales? They're freaking dragons!

Also, I second others in this thread who have added Necropolitans, Azurins, Illumians, and Kobolds to the list.

I second Spellscale. Spellscale Dragonfire Adepts are Boss.

And still, no love for the Hellbred.... :( it makes me sad

[Dixieboy]

Hellbred is more like a template from what I can remember.

[AirGuitarGod32]

I find myself greatly entertained by the arguements about races, and which ones are better for crunch reasons. I find myself playing whatever race makes sense for my character personality and backstory. Yes, sometimes I'll optimize, but perfect characters greatly outshine normal characters in games, and it makes it just... not fun.
So, go on, tell yourself that half-elves and half-orcs are terrible because their stat adjustments are sub-optimal. I happen to like the world of roleplaying opportunities they open up.

I agree. Half-Drow are among my fave "hybrids". I once was in a party that included a Half-Drow Half-Vasharan Paladin of Heironious. One of the most conflicted and amusing characters. He was a villain who wanted reformation and retribution.

Admittedly, Half-Orc and the "Cut and Dry" Half-Elf aren't my favorites, but they run an interesting pc and NPC

[AirGuitarGod32]

Hellbred is more like a template from what I can remember.

By the books, they, for the sake of argument, are a race. However, like Dragonborn, can be either a feat or a template

[Draz74]

Anyone else got any Whisper Gnome builds? Silencing Strike or not.
Just want to see what you guys can come up with for the class.
If I remember correctly there was a thread about a X-Bow slinger (Whisper Gnome) that used about 14 crossbows and the TWF line.

My favorite Whisper Gnome character is a Factotum who thinks of himself as a ranger. Stealth focused (duh, Whisper Gnome), with a healthy amount of nature-based skills; archery feats, including True Believer (Ehlonna) and supplemented by Raptor Arrows; pick non-flashy buff spells for his Arcane Dilettante abilities and claim that their magic is being sent by Ehlonna. There you go, a "ranger" who's great at improvising. He's a bit feat-starved, but still fun.

And with Whisper Gnome racial abilities, Darkstalker, maxxed Hide/Move Silently, Brains over Brawn bonuses, a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis, and eventually a Third Eye Conceal, he's impossible to find while he's hiding. Throw in a Dark Lantern and a Ring of the Darkhidden for good measure.

[WeeFreeMen]

My favorite Whisper Gnome character is a Factotum who thinks of himself as a ranger. Stealth focused (duh, Whisper Gnome), with a healthy amount of nature-based skills; archery feats, including True Believer (Ehlonna) and supplemented by Raptor Arrows; pick non-flashy buff spells for his Arcane Dilettante abilities and claim that their magic is being sent by Ehlonna. There you go, a "ranger" who's great at improvising. He's a bit feat-starved, but still fun.

And with Whisper Gnome racial abilities, Darkstalker, maxxed Hide/Move Silently, Brains over Brawn bonuses, a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis, and eventually a Third Eye Conceal, he's impossible to find while he's hiding. Throw in a Dark Lantern and a Ring of the Darkhidden for good measure.

Factotum is amoung my favorite classes period, I love Int synergy. Iiajutsu + SA? I think yes :D

[Foryn Gilnith]

So, go on, tell yourself that half-elves and half-orcs are terrible because their stat adjustments are sub-optimal. I happen to like the world of roleplaying opportunities they open up.

They open up a world of roleplaying opportunities, yes. None of those opportunities particularly interest me. Nothing in the D&D system has better roleplaying potential, just different kinds of RP potential. Playing a half-elf, or a half-orc, or (for example) a Green Star Adept is fun... but so is playing Jack B. Quick. And I'm not about to sacrifice mechanical fun just for the sake of being different without actually improving my roleplaying.

In short: You're right, good for you, I disagree and I don't consider myself a worse roleplayer for it.

EDIT: Wait, you choose races after making a backstory? Eh, again, whatever floats your boat.

[AirGuitarGod32]

fyi: Greenstar Adept SUX!!!!!

But I can see both ends of the argument. Yes, Hybrid races make excellent PC for backstory implications and yet still are viable races.

However, it should be said certain Half-X don't mix. A Half-Drow Half-Orc is unusable, while anything + Half-Troll makes me ill.

However, a Half-Giant Half-Troll could make an excellent NPC.....Hmm...

[Project_Mayhem]

I find myself greatly entertained by the arguements about races, and which ones are better for crunch reasons. I find myself playing whatever race makes sense for my character personality and backstory. Yes, sometimes I'll optimize, but perfect characters greatly outshine normal characters in games, and it makes it just... not fun.
So, go on, tell yourself that half-elves and half-orcs are terrible because their stat adjustments are sub-optimal. I happen to like the world of roleplaying opportunities they open up.

I agree here. It saddens me that people would only ever use the most optimal race for their build. Especially dodgy variant stuff like water orcs - the reason they're popular is for entirely mechanical reasons, rather than background.

[Ladorak]

fyi: Greenstar Adept SUX!!!!!

I believe that was his point... And I'm in total agreement, while it's all well and good to get on your 'I'm a roleplayer high horse D&D is strongly focused on the combat. In short, if you decide to be a Green Star Adept Half Elf for the sake of role playing you may be enjoying yourself, but you're hamstringing the rest of the group.

And if you happen to have a group who's cool with that, or do the same, and a DM who caters to it you should probably be playing World of Darkness, or a host of other RPGs where the heavy focus is on the RP.

If you play D&D, expect to get into combat... a lot, and if you suck in combat expect he rest of the party to get progressivly more annoyed with you as you keep taking an equal share of XP and loot for those 4 points of damage you did to the Clay Golem.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Especially dodgy variant stuff like water orcs - the reason they're popular is for entirely mechanical reasons, rather than background.

So?
I chose Water Orc to optimize my build, yes. Doesn't mean I can't roleplay. Doesn't mean I'll be worse at roleplaying when game time rolls around.

And seriously, why would I ever choose a race based on background? I have never come across a race whose fluff was especially cool. Half-elf mongrels and green star adepts are cool, yeah... but so is everything else in the game. And if I'm sacrificing mechanical power and not getting a roleplaying concept that's actually better...

There's nothing wrong with what you're doing. It's just that my experience with people expressing these viewpoints is... poor. They're often too self-righteous about their character choices. And then when the thread devolves into "roleplayers v. powergamers" (false dichotomy), these fellows get to spam their viewpoints and sound like the authoritative voice of Roleplaying protecting it from the munchkin hordes. :smallsigh:

Not addressed against you, personally; just for future reference.

[Ravingdork]

I just love my orc warlock. :smallbiggrin:

[AirGuitarGod32]

I just love my orc warlock. :smallbiggrin:

Ugh! Me Smash??

[Demons_eye]

Fluffs fluff, If I ever find a DM that would let me I so want to play Illithid as a LA 0 race. I would not care to lose stats HD and features so long as I could play one.

At the same time I dont understand why people can not just play an orc or elf and just say they are half-X and be happy with both worlds.

Edit: What I mean to say is if you strip the human and give it dwarf stats is that over powered? I would not think so, so why not pick up race X and role play it as race Y?

[CockroachTeaParty]

Yeah, I second that Blues do not deserve a +1 LA (neither do Hobgoblins).

Actually, I once made a Blue Truenamer that was actually pretty good (competent, even. Lv. 5 playtest; I'd like to see if the RAW Truenamer is capable of functioning in a normal powered game, but nobody I know wants to play one, and I always DM; but, I digress...).

Fffft... Hm. Also, Warforged Scouts should keep their +2 CON, if you ask me. +2 Dex, -2 Str Wis & Cha makes me a sad panda.

One of my favorite LA+0 races are Kenku. I just love them. Sneaky bird people.

As for Whisper Gnomes... They are just... so... cheesy. Almost too good. But given the way the game seems to only get harder as time progresses, I suppose PCs need every advantage they can get.

Also, I wish Dromites didn't have a +1 LA.

[Lycanthromancer]

Blues should have been a +0 LA PC race, while the dromites would have fit in quite well as monsters. I mean, they're just a little odd-duck to be a 'normal' race.

[AirGuitarGod32]

I do agree. Races that gain psi-like abilities shouldn't (to a degree) get unfair LA.

For instance: Both Dromites and Maenad have ray powers. However, for being that the dromite is smaller, it still gets a 1LA.

And if thats true, than Half-Giant shouldn't get a LA either.

[Ladorak]

I do agree. Races that gain psi-like abilities shouldn't (to a degree) get unfair LA.

For instance: Both Dromites and Maenad have ray powers. However, for being that the dromite is smaller, it still gets a 1LA.

And if thats true, than Half-Giant shouldn't get a LA either.

Sorry, not sure I'm understanding your point... Being Large (Or at least acting like your large) or Small can be a huge advantage depending on the build you put together. I agree the humble Dromite probably didn't deserve to be slapped with a +1, but then it's his own damn fault for being too good for +0 (Although how the Whisper Gnome got past is debatable)

[AirGuitarGod32]

Sorry, not sure I'm understanding your point... Being Large (Or at least acting like your large) or Small can be a huge advantage depending on the build you put together. I agree the humble Dromite probably didn't deserve to be slapped with a +1, but then it's his own damn fault for being too good for +0 (Although how the Whisper Gnome got past is debatable)

Once again, this lead my DM into an arguement about Drow LA. I mean, +1 would be more than fair, but +2 is almost Ludochris...

Anyways. I like the Dragonwrought Kobold abuse. However, what classes would be a good move for something like that?

And as for the size dispute, I'm simply stating that while yes, size can benefit, it can also hinder. A gnome can't use the same type of weapons say an Orc can, and likewise, the orc can't hide like the gnome can. Either way, both are disadvantages and yes, based on what the Player uses determines whether a +1 to AC is worth it...

And lastly, I was flipping through books and discovered the Lion of Talsid. I just want to ask whether or not it is a good class to operate, considering the requirements. I'll post the latter in another thread.

[Human Paragon 3]

What's so great about Shield Dwarf? It's the PHB Dwarf with a different bonus language. Or am I missing something?

[erikun]

What's so great about Shield Dwarf? It's the PHB Dwarf with a different bonus language. Or am I missing something?
Bonus to stat that everyone uses, penality to stat that almost nobody uses, Darkvision, resistance to magic, not penalized for wearing heavy armor (compared to medium)

My favorite races would either be humans or the various gnomes. I haven't played a Whisper Gnome before... now that I think about it, my DMs have all turned down anything that wasn't a basic Rock Gnome. Perhaps that's telling of something.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Where is the shield dwarf located? is it Races of stone

[Ladorak]

Where is the shield dwarf located? is it Races of stone

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book I believe... It is basically a basic dwarf from the PHB

[Worira]

I believe I explained why elves are not on my list already - CON malus.

Seeing as we're speaking English, and talking about neither apples nor insurance, I think the word you're looking for is "penalty".

[Karoht]

Ok, so I was reading through "Races of Stone" and I was browsing through the Feats section when I found this:
-Silencing Strike [Racial] -
Req: Sneak attack and Whisper Gnome as Race
Benefit: You get to apply your Silence effect on any target you strike with your sneak attack just by expending one of the uses. However, NO SAVE!

So I propose to you 2 things,
1) Can anyone make me a decent "Mage-Slayer / SA" build with a Whisper Gnome and this feat? (Assuming the caster target isnt a Pun-Pun of chain gating..allow for sub-optimazation on the opponents part.)
2) What is your favorite race? Do you combo a certain feat with that race ALL the time? For flavor? Build? (Ex. I always used to put Improv. Initiative on my Elfs, the Elf image is always Sleek and agile, I thought the feat fit)

-Best of luck, thank you in advance.
Have fun :]

2)Orc or Dwarf with that feat that lets you replace your strength bonus for charisma (which gets floored anyway) when doing an intimidate check. And then I crank intimidate. Nothing like diving into melee, letting out a loud orcish roar (or Waaaaag, depending on where you are from), or a alcohol/rage fueled battle cry with your dwarf. Or singing along with the party Bard while hacking apart mooks, who are now running for their lives. I used to take it for flavor, now it always ends up as a required part of my build if I'm playing orc or dwarf.

Of course, with a charisma of 4, my DM either had badguys who did charisma damage to me (metagaming says I, but it does stand to reason), or made me roll a charisma check any time I opened my mouth. So I only opened my mouth to eat, battle cry, and did my best to appear mute whenever possible. Even with a -3 to charisma checks, you'd be surprised how easy it is to sway the ladies with body language and the strong silent type image.

[AirGuitarGod32]

..............

And now for something completely different....

I did talk to my buddies and Buoman and Bariaur from PlanarHB are races we all agreed were AWESOME!!!!!

[Gnorman]

Seeing as we're speaking English, and talking about neither apples nor insurance, I think the word you're looking for is "penalty".

Malus is a perfectly legitimate thing to say. So is penalty. Splitting semantic hairs.

[Ladorak]

..............

And now for something completely different....

I did talk to my buddies and Buoman and Bariaur from PlanarHB are races we all agreed were AWESOME!!!!!

:smallconfused:

[Optimystik]

..............

And now for something completely different....

I did talk to my buddies and Buoman and Bariaur from PlanarHB are races we all agreed were AWESOME!!!!!

I do like Buoman, though they appear quite strange. They make an excellent Sacred Fist. It's not easy to find races with a WIS bonus with 0 LA.

Bariaur, I can do without. A 1 LA centaur does sound appealing, but only compared to the regular centaur.

[AirGuitarGod32]

I do like Buoman, though they appear quite strange. They make an excellent Sacred Fist. It's not easy to find races with a WIS bonus with 0 LA.

Bariaur, I can do without. A 1 LA centaur does sound appealing, but only compared to the regular centaur.

They also get a waive on the silence vow for becoming Dragonborn.

And the bariaur are great pack mule type PCs who like the muscular PC. Or you can be an Orc...

[Worira]

Malus is a perfectly legitimate thing to say. So is penalty. Splitting semantic hairs.

No, actually, it's not. It simply doesn't mean that. Unless you're talking about insurance policies, it isn't even a word in English, and it doesn't even translate to the English word "penalty". It's like saying "I have a pet canis."

[Foryn Gilnith]

It's like saying "I have a pet canis."

If you said that, you'd be understood, if looked at oddly. Using "malus" in place of "penalty" would also be suitable for conveying meaning, and therefore adequate. It attracted commentary, but that's to be expected.