Shouldn't Xykon head for Kraagor's?

[ChrisFortyTwo]

I'm not doubting the Oracle's prophecy, but Xykon doesn't like thinking, wouldn't he prefer a bunch of monsters to an endless line of puzzles and illusions? I mean, he's an epic level Blaster caster. Monsters should be a cakewalk for him.

What could possibly make him head across an ocean, through a desert, and past a maze?

[Kish]

Maybe, on the evidence he has available, the monsters at Kraagor's Dungeon seem likely to start with (spoilers for No Cure for the Paladin Blues bonus strip)something as tough as the ancient silver dragon who nearly destroyed him and Redcloak,and get tougher from there.

[TheSummoner]

Geographical convenience?

Afterall, Xykon doesnt care which gate he gets, so the easiest or closest is the likely target.

[Acero]

i believe it was stated there were like 8 human nations between him and that gate

here it is


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html

[Raw_fishFood]

I think the same reason her was talked into going for Soon's Gate in the first place. It was easiest to get to. It only required the one nation to conquer, and would provide (what they thought) would be a good staging ground for attacking the other gates. While they do have to cross an Ocean to get to it, it's easier than taking an army all the way back north and fighting all of the resistance they'd run into. Much easier to march through a desert, especially if you don't care about the survival of your army.

As far as taking out the Illusions go, Xykon may figure he can somehow brute force his way through them. He doesn't care for subtly.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

i believe it was stated there were like 8 human nations between him and that gate
It was only a factor when he was trying to move an entire hobgoblin nation with him. For the next gate, he's just teleporting with his core team (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html). Geography is not an issue.

As to the original question, keep in mind that Xykon may not care for methodical planning, but that doesn't mean he's against thinking through problems related to immediate goals. His impatience stems mostly from a strong goal-focus. He becomes a lot more mellow when he feels he is at least making some progress towards his goal.

Start of Darkness
Remember, this lich spent 30 years tracking down leads before finding the Redmountain Gate.

This guy is more thoughtful than he lets on.

[NerfTW]

That doesn't mean just the core team. Xykon could have researched an epic teleport spell like the one V used.

[Katana_Geldar]

I just had a thought. Is the oracles prophecy based on the information before all the last story arc?

It's not as if the oracle has ever said his prophecies are immutable.

[Kish]

Huh? Either he can predict the future or he can't, and it's obviously not that he can't. Nothing happened in the last story arc that would logically invalidate his prophecy.

More to the immediate point, the last time we saw Redcloak and Xykon, they were focused on Girard's Gate.

[TheSummoner]

You do realize that if Xykon goes anywhere other than Girard's gate, a million threads will flood the forum saying that Belkar will live.

[Katana_Geldar]

How are they related? Oh, right forget I asked

[J.J.J-H-Schmidt]

You do realize that if Xykon goes anywhere other than Girard's gate, a million threads will flood the forum saying that Belkar will live.


i just want to say that i love you for saying that.

anyway... the reason he isnt headed for kraagor's gate is because the PCs are at girard's gate... maybe not the most tactical plan, but i think that this book focuses more on story progression than logic... that and whatever is better for a laugh.

[factotum]

When it comes right down to it, Xykon seems to have an especial dislike of non-spontaneous arcane casters, even to the point that he's built himself specifically to take them out--look at the battles with Dorukan and Spliced-V. Given that, it makes more sense for him to go after the gate protected by an arcane caster (Girard) than the one populated by dozens of nasty monsters.

[darthava]

More to the immediate point, the last time we saw Redcloak and Xykon, they were focused on Girard's Gate.

Indeed. Once they find the phlactery of Xykon they will teleport to the gate.
My question is, what are the limits of teleport?
And how long would it take team evil to find the phlactery? It seems they have a lot of ground to cover and have to serach for it by hand.

[Larkspur]

There's also the fact that however little Xykon may like problem-solving, Xykon and Redcloak's actual aptitude for solving a maze of puzzles is way higher than their aptitude for dungeon crawling through a high-level dungeon.

The party only has 4 high level characters (4.5 if you count Jirix), the MitD doesn't fight, they can't bring the hobgoblin army into a dungeon, and they're all casters, which means that everyone except Xykon is going to run out of spell slots after only a few rooms and then they're going to have to stop and rest. It would take them forever to get anywhere unless Xykon does all the work, and even Xykon isn't strong enough to fight his way through an entire dungeon alone.

Xykon's smart enough to know that. If they go after Girard instead he can sit back and let Redcloak do most of the work and pop up with a sudden insight whenever Reddy gets stuck, which is way more his style.

[Acero]

There's also the fact that however little Xykon may like problem-solving, Xykon and Redcloak's actual aptitude for solving a maze of puzzles is way higher than their aptitude for dungeon crawling through a high-level dungeon.

The party only has 4 high level characters (4.5 if you count Jirix)

didn't he die?

[Douglas]

didn't he die?
Yes. He also got promptly resurrected by Redcloak, unless RC for some reason decided he could and should disregard that order from Xykon.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

That doesn't mean just the core team. Xykon could have researched an epic teleport spell like the one V used.
He's requesting Tsukiko do the actual casting. Unless she's epic, I doubt it.

Kinda funny: O-chul somehow discovered that Xykon knows greater teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), yet the lich seems loath to use it. I don't think he's ever used the spell himself on-panel.

In any case, Xykon is intensely focused and practical when it comes to his primary goals. A hobgoblin nation won't be useful at Girard's gate. Therefore, Xykon won't take it with him.


Yes. He also got promptly resurrected by Redcloak, unless RC for some reason decided he could and should disregard that order from Xykon.
Of course, even if Redcloak casts the spell, it doesn't obligate Jirix to return from the afterlife. :smalltongue:

[Herald Alberich]

He's requesting Tsukiko do the actual casting. Unless she's epic, I doubt it.

Kinda funny: O-chul somehow discovered that Xykon knows greater teleport (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html), yet the lich seems loath to use it. I don't think he's ever used the spell himself on-panel.


What makes you say that? He tells them all to be ready (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html), and Tsukiko happens to be in the panel, but that doesn't mean he wants her to cast the spell. There's no indication she knows Greater Teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Teleportgreater.htm), which is highly recommended for intercontinental travel, and with Xykon casting it they can bring a few mooks along if the rules for carrying capacity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Teleport.htm) are followed.

Although, come to think of it, those rules would mean the Azurite caster who brought the Order to Cliffport was level 18 at least. I find that unlikely.

[Snails]

There's also the fact that however little Xykon may like problem-solving, Xykon and Redcloak's actual aptitude for solving a maze of puzzles is way higher than their aptitude for dungeon crawling through a high-level dungeon.


An interesting thrust of argument. I will politely disagree.

While Xykon underplays his own intelligence when it comes non-critical issues, he is sharper than he usually lets on, nonetheless I would not rate him as much of a problem solver. He could be outright stumped by a maze of puzzles.

It seems the card up Xykon's sleeve is his nonchalance about being killed and respawning from his phylactery. That makes for slow going against a serious dungeon crawl, but at least he is likely to make steady progress. As pointed out by someone else, Xykon can exhibit significant patience when he believes things are going his way, even if progress is quite slow.

[ChrisFortyTwo]

When it comes right down to it, Xykon seems to have an especial dislike of non-spontaneous arcane casters, even to the point that he's built himself specifically to take them out--look at the battles with Dorukan and Spliced-V. Given that, it makes more sense for him to go after the gate protected by an arcane caster (Girard) than the one populated by dozens of nasty monsters.

Ah...my thought process is satisfied. The whole idea of personal grudge didn't enter into my mind. You're absolutely right, he'd rather take on a caster than a dungeon full of super nasty monsters.

[Larkspur]

While Xykon underplays his own intelligence when it comes non-critical issues, he is sharper than he usually lets on, nonetheless I would not rate him as much of a problem solver. He could be outright stumped by a maze of puzzles.

He was able to decrypt Serini's diary, and the Symbol-of-Insanity was a very clever solution to the "Roomful of paladins hellbent on your destruction" problem. (Whether or not we think it violated any rules is a separate issue; the point is, it was clever and it worked.) SoDHe was also able to figure out how to draw out Dorukan and secure Recloak's loyalty, and the latter at least was slightly counter-intuitive.

He's horribly ignorant, but based on what we've seen I think his puzzle-solving IQ is actually quite high.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

What makes you say that? He tells them all to be ready (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html), and Tsukiko happens to be in the panel, but that doesn't mean he wants her to cast the spell.
I didn't really reread the line directly and misremembered the phrasing. :smallredface:

[Querzis]

When it comes right down to it, Xykon seems to have an especial dislike of non-spontaneous arcane casters, even to the point that he's built himself specifically to take them out--look at the battles with Dorukan and Spliced-V.

You know whats funny about this, this is actually why a fighter with a sword has more chance against Xykon then a caster like Eugene. Energy drain is Xykon signature move and while energy drain takes away the strongest spells a caster has, the fighter is still hitting you with a +5 starmetal sword thats especially harmful to undead.

Anyway, back to the topic, I'm pretty damn sure Xykon doesnt even care. He would most likely just decide which gates hes going to go next by flipping a coin. In other words, why does Xykon head for Girard gate? Why not?

But if you absolutely want a reason, I agree with Larkspur and Factotum. Xykon is not just built to kill arcane casters, he also love to kill other arcane casters.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

i don't necessarily think Xykon sees Kraagor's defenses as the weaker one. Girard's philosophy is indirect, based on trickery, but without any "real" strength. Kraagor's tomb is defended by philosophies he took to heart, straightforward power.

[TheCoolThatguy]

Girard's gate is also in an open desert. Given that Xykon might choose it because itpresents less potential for meddling kids to come in and screw up his plans

[Morquard]

Don't forget Xykon sat on his hipbone for the last couple of months, and while he said somewhere he can't be bothered to spend more than 8 hours making magic items and stuff, that is still an aweful lot of time for that.
So he might have researched a couple of epic spells specially to counter illusions, even epic ones or build items to do it.

There's not really that much he can research for a dungeon full of really tough critters.

[factotum]

Although, come to think of it, those rules would mean the Azurite caster who brought the Order to Cliffport was level 18 at least. I find that unlikely.

I think Teleport definitely allows for a greater carrying capacity in Stickverse than it does in the standard game--as you rightly point out, if they had a level 18 wizard available then I doubt they'd have been using him as a glorified taxi driver.

[David Demola]

I'm not doubting the Oracle's prophecy, but Xykon doesn't like thinking, wouldn't he prefer a bunch of monsters to an endless line of puzzles and illusions? I mean, he's an epic level Blaster caster. Monsters should be a cakewalk for him.

What could possibly make him head across an ocean, through a desert, and past a maze?

Yes, monsters would be a cakewalk for him...

But I'm pretty sure he'd have more fun using this tactic, for illusions:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html

[Bibliomancer]

Yes, monsters would be a cakewalk for him...

But I'm pretty sure he'd have more fun using this tactic, for illusions:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html

"So help me, if you make me sail a ship made of hobgoblin corpses across the ocean, I swear I will find a way to make you pay." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0300.html)
[Although that threat it far less relevant away this. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0662.html)]

[AsteriskAmp]

If he went to Kraggor's Gate. Wouldn't he still have to wait for some good-hearted adventurers to touch the gate or something alike?
Considering that, it would make more sense to go to the gate with adventurers alredy there.

[Katana_Geldar]

Remind me, why does Xykon need someone to touch the gate?

[Kish]

Because araveugnitsuga has confused the ward Dorukan put on his gate with an inherent defense all the gates have.

[SPoD]

Maybe I'm missing something, but so far, Xykon hasn't said that he IS going to Girard's Gate next. I know that's what the prophecy predicts, but I don't think, at this moment, that Xykon has actually made that decision. For all we know, he could yet flip a coin right before teleporting out of Azure City.

What we do have is Redcloak asking O-Chul about Girard's defenses, but that's Redcloak. He knows that of the two remaining Gates, Girard's is the one more likely to require advance data on their part. Why waste your (potentially limited) interrogation time asking exactly what sort of big monsters guard Kraagor's Gate when you could possibly shortcut through all of Girard's preparations with the right intel?