Can you use injury based poisons with unarmed strikes?

[Rev.Scarecrow]

It sounds like injury based poisons only work if you make a wound but there are technically two types of wounds (in the real world anyway). Open wounds the kind everyone thinks of when they think wound, and closed wound which is a contusion (a bruise). Both are considered wounds so can you punch injury poison into someone?

If it's only slashing and piercing isn't there a feat that allows you to pick the type of damage that you do with unarmed allowing you to do slashing or piercing with fists?

[RandomLunatic]

In DnD, Injury poisons works as long as you deal hit point damage to the target-no "open" wounds required. So yes, you can poison somebody by punching them. For obvious reasons, I would suggest looking into a method to become immune to the poision first, or at least wearing gauntlets.

Also, the Versatile Unarmed Strike feat from the PHBII lets you swap the damage type of your unarmed attack as a Swift action.

[Darrin]

Both are considered wounds so can you punch injury poison into someone?


Touch of Golden Ice can be nice (BoED), although the Fort save DC 14 is a little low. Ring of the Viper (Serpent Kingdoms) is better... Fort save is even lower, DC 11, but it works on everybody.



If it's only slashing and piercing isn't there a feat that allows you to pick the type of damage that you do with unarmed allowing you to do slashing or piercing with fists?

Versatile Unarmed Strike, PHBII. However, there are a few weapons that can use your unarmed strike damage but could be used to deliver poison.

Dragonfang Guantlets, MIC p. 95, 8610 GP.

Scorpion Kama, MIC p. 201, 6302 GP.

Battlefist Warforged Component (ECS p. 268, 2600 GP) + Mighty Arms Graft (FoE p. 158, 1000 GP).

[amanamana]

Just go for the eyes... that will allow a unarmed strike to deliver injury poison. Of course, this is just rationalization for that fact.

[Rev.Scarecrow]

So wait can you still poison yourself if you have "poison use" when applying it to blunt weapons, your fists, or a trap?

[awa]

i think a dm might rule you poison yourself if you apply contact poison to your fist regardless of poison use.

[herrhauptmann]

He could be a jerk and swarm you with regular mosquitoes. The first time you try to roleplay their annoyance and say "I scratch my bites," or "I slap the one on my arm" he announces that you just injured yourself enough for the poison :smalleek:

[Curmudgeon]

So wait can you still poison yourself if you have "poison use" when applying it to blunt weapons, your fists, or a trap?
No, I think it's fair to treat those descriptions in the Poison Use feature as inclusionary, with examples, rather than exclusionary.

Poison Use: Assassins are trained in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves when applying poison to a blade.
Poison Use (Ex): You are skilled in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning yourself when applying poison to a weapon.
It's the same ability, but slightly different examples. The attacking part of a trap is a weapon, too.

However, you do still risk poisoning yourself on a rolled 1 when attacking with poisoned weapons; Poison Use doesn't help with that.

Perils Of Using Poison

A character has a 5% chance of exposing himself to a poison whenever he applies it to a weapon or otherwise readies it for use. Additionally, a character who rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll with a poisoned weapon must make a DC 15 Reflex save or accidentally poison himself with the weapon. Poison Use only negates the mishap chance when applying it to a weapon, not the mishap chance on a flubbed use of that weapon in combat.

[Khanderas]

I assume that if somone poisons their fists, they are immune to poison by race or class anyway and the poison use skill is immaterial (and he does, infact willfully poison himself so it would still be no point to having that skill here).

Personally, injury poison to me, would require acual blood insertion. Else it would be contact poison so I would not let, say a monk, poison his fists with an injury poison and then gain a poisonous attack.

Now contact poison + grapple. Yes.

[Edwin]

Doesn't it specifically state somewhere that poison can't be applied to unarmed attacks?

Or is it just me who thinks that..

[Prime32]

He could be a jerk and swarm you with regular mosquitoes. The first time you try to roleplay their annoyance and say "I scratch my bites," or "I slap the one on my arm" he announces that you just injured yourself enough for the poison :smalleek:Heh, you reminded me of that Simpsons episode where Bart is Hamlet. It went something like this:

Moe: "I've put poison on the food, the curtains, even Lenny and Carl here!"
Lenny: "If he touches either one of us he's a goner!"
Carl: "Boo-yah!"
*Lenny and Carl high-five*
*Lenny and Carl drop dead*

[Sliver]

RAW or not, it is only logical that injury poison can be applied only with piercing or slashing attacks.. Contact poison is fair game with fists, wear gauntlets or something

Reminds me of one time I played in a game and the DM said "You find poison smeared over the doorknob" -stuff-
me: "Ok.. I wipe it off with a piece of cloth. I already wear gloves so there shouldn't be a problem"
DM: "Roll Disable Device"
me: :smallconfused: "What..?"
Other player: "I open the door with my sword" (me: :smallconfused:)
DM: "Roll fort save against the poison.."

[Person_Man]

I see no reason you shouldn't be able to deliver an injury based poison with unarmed strikes. Unarmed strikes count as a weapon, the rules don't prohibit it, and there are a dozen fluffy ways you could justify it.

Also, you might want to look at this helpful Poison Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.0). The key takeaway of the thread is that anyone with a few ranks in Handle Animal and Craft (Poison Making) can milk a poison producing creature to get a free dose (Drow of the Underdark). You can also create plant based poisons with Psionic Minor Creation, which you can access via Expanded Knowledge or with 1 level of Psion. Poison is an excellent low level combo. In particular, it's a great option for Rangers and Druids, who can easily buy or summon poison producing creatures, milk them, and store the poison for important battles. Similarly, any low level psionic build can get a lot of millage out of Psionic Minor Creation. At mid levels it's a good choice for debuff builds. For example, a Hexblade/Binder/Blackguard can easily impose a -6 to -12 penalty on their targets, has access to a potentially poisonous Familiar and a Fiendish Servant, and has the Poison Use ability. But there is a huge diminishing return on poison. One or two Poison related feats and/or magic items might help a lot. But beyond that, you're not getting a really good bang for your buck. And because tons of enemies are immune, it cannot be relied upon for important combats. So this is a good combo to pick up once you already have 2 or 3 other combos under your belt.

[Rev.Scarecrow]

Huh ok well thanks everyone for the help so far. Is there anyway to become immune to poison or even a particular poison?

[Boci]

Huh ok well thanks everyone for the help so far. Is there anyway to become immune to poison or even a particular poison?

Posion immunity. Makes you immune to one type of poison and gives a +1 bonus on savesa against all other types. I think it requires great fortitude.

[Rev.Scarecrow]

Posion immunity. Makes you immune to one type of poison and gives a +1 bonus on savesa against all other types. I think it requires great fortitude.

What book is that in?

[jokey665]

What book is that in?

Book of Vile Darkness, page 49. It has no prerequisites.

[Boci]

Book of Vile Darkness, page 49. It has no prerequisites.

Hasn't it been updated since then? Maybe in Heroes of Horror?

[jokey665]

Hasn't it been updated since then? Maybe in Heroes of Horror?

Dunno. I've read almost nothing in Heroes of Horror, and I don't know of it being anywhere else.