Veggie/Vegan Thread - READ FIRST POST

[xPANCAKEx]

Hello playgrounders

its been a while since the last thread crashed and burned. Seems you boys n girls just can't play nice. But i've had a word with the local town sherriff and got the nod to start up another thread. So a few ground rules first

what this thread is for:
* FIRSTLY - Its a thread for everyone: veggies, vegans and omnivores alike. Some people want to expand their knowledge, some people want to change their diet, and some people are just plain curious about what you've got tucked away in your pantry, and what clothes you wear. All nice and easy stuff about how you live your life, not why you've made your choices.
* Discussing diet requirements/ideas - good food is good food regardless
* Recipe exchange
* Talking about nice restuarants - we all love to eat
* Shopping - found a nice new pair of shoes? a great jacket? a good blog? tell us about it


THE IMPORTANT PART PAY ATTENTION... yes you at the back:
what this thread is not:
* This thread is not a place to discuss ethics. period. You're either vegan/veggie or you're not. Its a thread about "hows" and not "whys".
* Can't emphasise this enough - this thread isn't about whether you think someones dietary choice/moral/ethical code is right or wrong. That includes veggies and vegans bashing omnivores or each other. If you want to do that, take it to PM
* Not a thread about politics. So activism is a bit of a grey area probably best left untouched. If you want to mention that you were at a demo or you're going to one, fine, but don't talk about the politics. Bit of a no brainer but needs to be stated.
* No trying to convert/persuade people to "give it a try". You may think you're right, but just.... NO.

Stick with that lot and hopefully this one won't be locked down faster than a 12th century nobles wife's chasitity belt like the last one.

SO... if you've got any questions then don't be shy and fire away



as im kick starting this one i may as well ask:

does anyone know how vegan friendly puma shoes are - is their glue animal based?

[SDF]

No idea about pumas, but THESE (https://www.adbusters.org/campaigns/blackspot) were always my favorite fair trade, vegan, shoe things.

[Mystic Muse]

Does anybody know of a tasty, sort of sweet veggie dish? I'd prefer it if it didn't have any form of bean in it whatsoever.

Spaghetti is not a valid response either.

[Hazkali]

I've been a veggie for about four years now, and it's going fairly well for me. Unfortunately I discovered the other day that a lot of chocolate in the university vending machines (that I've been happily munching on for the last few years) is not veggie. :smallfrown: So not only have I been breaking my code, I now need a new afternoon treat.


Does anybody know of a tasty, sort of sweet veggie dish? I'd prefer it if it didn't have any form of bean in it whatsoever.

Spaghetti is not a valid response either.

Lots of stir-fry sauces are quite sweet- sticky plum, sweet & sour, lemon, etc. You can buy one-meal sachets by one of the famous Oriental foods companies, they're great with Quorn/generic meat substitute and/or crisp vegetables.

Other than that, caramelised onions are quite sweet, you can add them to various things.

[Mystic Muse]

I've been a veggie for about four years now

O_o a living, typing talking Veggie!

Just kidding. well peanut butter crackers are a good, fairly cheap treat for the amount you can make. Are those valid? If peanut butter is valid there are a few other things you can have.

[thorgrim29]

I like butternut squash pottage, it's sweet and crazy good, not sure how it would be without milk tough. Other then that.... strawberry and nuts salad, not sure on the recipe.

[Hazkali]

O_o a living, typing talking Veggie!

Just kidding. well peanut butter crackers are a good treat. Are those valid?

:smalltongue:

I don't know about the crackers, I haven't heard of them before but they sound good. I do like peanut butter, good stuff.

As for the porridge, most veggies have milk so that probably would be okay, but otherwise butternut squash rizotto is scarily good.

[golentan]

I used to be vegetarian, and I hope to go back when it's possible.

[Quincunx]

Food is fascinating, but for the moment my mind is on non-consumables.

Refashioning fur, leather, and feathers--yea or nay? Broadly, those who say 'yea' acknowledge that the hurt was done to the animal already and that it's adding insult to that injury to treat them as disposable products, and those who say 'nay' want no part of animal suffering even at second-hand.

. . .no, tell a lie, I can think about food also. Still omnivorous, but after the first vegetarian thread I've been adding a small quantity of the less strongly flavored vegetable proteins to meals--a quarter-cup of lentils in the tomato sauce to go over the pasta, a sprinkle of red quinoa over white rice, and so on. There's little enough in there to not ruin the taste, but those meals are keeping hunger at bay for longer, and not just because of the extra calories--also, at such small quantities, it's extremely cheap despite a steep initial outlay for a bag of veggie protein. Something to consider.

[smellie_hippie]

I am not a vegetarian... most of the time.

It's really kinda wierd, but when I head to Asheville NC and visit friends... I have a tendency to avoid eating meat of any sort. Not trying to "blend in with the locals" or anything like that... but it's just an odd occurance.

I also wanted to comment that the "Phattie Veggie Burritos" I used to buy in the lot at phish concerts were absolutely phenomenal!! Pretty much a tortilla with beans, sprouts, tomatoes, cheese, salsa and sour cream. Nothing extravagant... btu absolutely wonderful!!!

*returns thread*

[Corlindale]

I really enjoy both cooking and eating vegetarian food, even though I'm not a vegetarian (just yet).

This (http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Vegetarian-Chili/Detail.aspx) is one of my favourite recipes - it's almost absurdly easy to make (toss all ingredients in a pot and let simmer for an hour, basically), it's healthy, it tastes really good and it is quite cheap. Also, I'm currently in the process of conducting a series of scientific experiments designed to show that it can be substituted for your basic minced meat mixture in any context whatsoever. So far I've discovered that it is GREAT in pancakes, and it also worked quite well in an improvised mexican veggie-lasagna. It was only decent with pasta, though, but I imagine it will go well with rice - that's going to be my next experiment:smallsmile:

[thorgrim29]

On the subject of adding stuff to pasta: Try lightly roasted (be careful, very easy to burn) pine nuts over tomato sauce pasta (especially good if the sauce is a bit spicy or there's some kind of spicy meat in there, partial to chorizo myself). I imagine it would work about as well for a vegan if you substitute the meat for something else (eggplant maybe)

[Boo]

I really like falafels (sp?). Also: hemp (not with THC). It's a very good material.

I do eat meat, but I do also eat vegitarian meals on occasion. That's my way of saying "we don't really need meat that much, but we still do need it". That, at least, is according to my knowledge of human nutrition. I mean, it really varies person to person.

Oh, and I don't believe in wasting material (Quincunx) unless you're talking about simply killing something for it's fur/feathers. If the animal is eaten then I haven't a problem if they use the skin. If they throw away the meat, that's when I have a problem. But I'm going into ethics here I realise, so I'll stop. (You're probably talking about consumerism with fur, right?)

[Quincunx]

I'm talking about decades-old jackets in second-hand shops where the provenance, if ever it was known or cared about, is long forgotten. One can guess that the leather is a by-product and the fancy fur was killed for its skin, but certainty is impossible.

And yes, hemp-blend fabric is wonderful--all the longevity of linen and a great deal less of the wrinkling!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

How tricky is it to live a vegan life? The only thing I really know about vegans comes from a series of Dilbert comics where Dilbert and company are annoyed by a pretentious vegan co-worker who ruins their lunchbreak by asking to come with them and then shooting down every restaurant they choose to go to. I'm fairly certain that your average vegan isn't like that, but it got me wondering how much work living a vegan lifestyle is. How much of an effort do you have to make to avoid animal products? I don't think I could ever be a vegan, but I'm interested in knowing more about them so I can be more respectful to them.

[RS14]

I do eat meat, but I do also eat vegitarian meals on occasion. That's my way of saying "we don't really need meat that much, but we still do need it". That, at least, is according to my knowledge of human nutrition. I mean, it really varies person to person.

I do too, from time to time. I'm just a bad vegetarian. And I'm only really semi-vegetarian, as I eat arthropods and most mollusks. And I don't pay much attention to components beyond the obvious; that is, if my food was cooked in oil derived from animals, I wouldn't know. I don't eat marshmallows, but only because they were mentioned to me as non-vegetarian--I don't go out of my way to check what is in heavily processed food of that sort.

[Mystic Muse]

:smalltongue:

I don't know about the crackers, I haven't heard of them before but they sound good. I do like peanut butter, good stuff.

As for the porridge, most veggies have milk so that probably would be okay, but otherwise butternut squash rizotto is scarily good.

Peanut butter combined with BAnana is also very good. especially as a peanut butter banana sandwich. apple slices with peanut butter are also very good.

Some people like putting peanut butter on celery. I'm not a big fan (or of green vegetables in general) but you might like it.

[Trog]

I really enjoy both cooking and eating vegetarian food, even though I'm not a vegetarian (just yet).

This (http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Vegetarian-Chili/Detail.aspx) is one of my favourite recipes - it's almost absurdly easy to make (toss all ingredients in a pot and let simmer for an hour, basically), it's healthy, it tastes really good and it is quite cheap. Also, I'm currently in the process of conducting a series of scientific experiments designed to show that it can be substituted for your basic minced meat mixture in any context whatsoever. So far I've discovered that it is GREAT in pancakes, and it also worked quite well in an improvised mexican veggie-lasagna. It was only decent with pasta, though, but I imagine it will go well with rice - that's going to be my next experiment:smallsmile:
HUZZAH! A RECIPE! ^(^_^)^

I'm largely a meat eater but have been open to trying vegetarian dishes to 1) eat a little healthier 2) eat cheaper and 3) to try new things. Next trip to the grocery store I'm picking up the ingredients for that chili. P=

[Serpentine]

Very good first post, Pancake :smallsmile:

Um... Don't have much to add. Except that I do want more interesting things to do with my veggies...

[Erothayce]

How tricky is it to live a vegan life? The only thing I really know about vegans comes from a series of Dilbert comics where Dilbert and company are annoyed by a pretentious vegan co-worker who ruins their lunchbreak by asking to come with them and then shooting down every restaurant they choose to go to. I'm fairly certain that your average vegan isn't like that, but it got me wondering how much work living a vegan lifestyle is. How much of an effort do you have to make to avoid animal products? I don't think I could ever be a vegan, but I'm interested in knowing more about them so I can be more respectful to them.

While not vegan myself I do have vegan friends and it can be tedious sometimes to find a place to eat but not overly so. Most places have a vegetable pasta dish that is quite good. I've been vegetarian for 5 years and never had a problem eating even at steak houses.

[Eldpollard]

I've been veggie almost 5 years myself. And I went to the most delightful vegetarian curry restaurant in Leeds (UK) called Hansa's (I think. That or Hamsa's) I must say, the food was excellent, and it was nice for once to eat without having to look everything over to make sure it doesn't contain meat of some sort. It was nice even though on Sundays it's buffet and I was incredibly hungover as I'd forgotten I was supposed to me meeting my dad that day.
Anyway, if any of you live that sort of area, it's worth checking out, whether you eat meat or not.

The problem I find with being veggie is cooking for myself. It's odd, I like cooking yet I can never be bothered to cook for myself. I either need motivation or really lazy stuff. That being said I'm cooking a veggie Christmas dinner for the family this year. I may (will) wreck it all but at least we'll still have toast.

[Coidzor]

Hmm. I'm curious, since I may be going after someone who is vegetarian (only dairy and I think wool), but what are some of your favorite recipes?

Right now the only decent recipe I have on hand is red beans and rice, but I've got a sneaking suspicion that I'm using the normally added andouille-substitute as a crutch...


1 (12 ounce) package frozen burger-style crumbles

wtf is that though?

[onasuma]

@ /\: Bread crumbs

[Ichneumon]

Well, let's hope this turns out well... Good initiative xPANCAKEx.

It seems we are avoiding certain stuff completely, so I guess we're safe. If anyone wants to talk to me about those stuff anywhy, they can always pm me.


How tricky is it to live a vegan life? The only thing I really know about vegans comes from a series of Dilbert comics where Dilbert and company are annoyed by a pretentious vegan co-worker who ruins their lunchbreak by asking to come with them and then shooting down every restaurant they choose to go to. I'm fairly certain that your average vegan isn't like that, but it got me wondering how much work living a vegan lifestyle is. How much of an effort do you have to make to avoid animal products? I don't think I could ever be a vegan, but I'm interested in knowing more about them so I can be more respectful to them.

I'm a vegan, have been one now for almost 2 years (or something like that, don't know the exact moment). Being a vegan isn't really difficult, only sometimes slightly inconvenient. It's not even that on a daily basis, as when buying your food at the local supermarket you don't often buy something you haven't bought before so you learn what is and what isn't possible quite soon. In most restaurants, (unless you go to something like a Steak House), you can eat vegan. Depending on what type of restaurant it is, it will be good or it won't, really depends on the restaurant. I'm not really an outgoing type of person, so I can imagine that if you travel to a new city every week and go to new restaurants every day, it can be difficult.

Most difficulty I have though is finding vegan non-food products, like non-leathery (yet still good looking) shoes or clothes without wool and stuff like that. Things you don't need on a daily basis.

[Cobra_Ikari]

Most difficulty I have though is finding vegan non-food products, like non-leathery (yet still good looking) shoes or clothes without wool and stuff like that. Things you don't need on a daily basis.

*takes notes*...Ichy does not need clothes on a daily basis. :smallwink:

I wouldn't have even thought of the non-consumable aspect of vegan culture, though. Wow.

...though most everything I wear is cotton or denim or synthetics. Except one jacket. Might be harder for ladies, I guess?

[Boo]

I wouldn't have even thought of the non-consumable aspect of vegan culture, though. Wow.

Well, it would be rather funny and sad to see a vegan eating a falafel while wearing a (real) fur coat. Leather, cotton*, wool, and a few others I think are off-limits to vegans.

Veganism sort of has two sides to it from what I've seen. One says some animal by-products are fine while the majority say NO animal by-products. The "nothing from something with a face" rule? I forget.

Any vegan cookies? I'm eating cookies, so I thought "why not ask".



*by cotton I mean not-cotton. It's made from an orphans' parents you know.

[kpenguin]

Why would cotton be off-limits for vegans?:smallconfused:

[Corlindale]

wtf is that though?

Heh, yeah, I actually leave the bread crumbs out. It seems a bit unnecessary, I don't have any particular need to make the dish seem to contain meat. Perhaps one day if I need to trick one of my devout carnivorous friends to eat and enjoy a vegan dish unknowingly:smallbiggrin:
I also often make it with only red beans, because black are harder to get hold of in my area.

Here's another very good vegan recipe, my favourite lentil soup. It's pretty easy to make as well. Measurements in metric:

Indian Tomato-Lentil Soup


200 g of red lentils (rinsed)
1 tblsp vegetable oil
2 large onions, chopped
1 large leek, chopped
2 cloves of garlic, crushed
2 cans of diced tomatoes
1-1½ l. of vegetable bouillon
6 bay leaves
a pinch of cinnamon (or a stick of cinnamon, if you want to do it by the book)
2 teaspoons of cumin
2 teaspoons of coriander
2 tblsp of curry powder
1 small can of coconut milk
Mango-chutney (store-bought is fine)
Lemon juice
Salt

1. Saute the vegetables and spices in a large pot for a couple of minutes

2. Add the crushed tomatoes, lentils and bouillon. Bring to a boil, and let it simmer for 20-30 minutes.

3. Remove the bay leaves (and the stick of cinnamon, if you used that).

4. Blend the soup with a hand-held blender for a minute or two.

5. Add the can of coconut milk, followed by mango-chutney, lemon juice and salt to taste.

6. Make sure the soup is thoroughly heated, and serve:smallsmile: As with most soups, it works much better with bread on the side.

[Ichneumon]

*takes notes*...Ichy does not need clothes on a daily basis. :smallwink:

Well, I could've expected a comment like that. I don't need them on a daily basis, though.:smallamused:


...though most everything I wear is cotton or denim or synthetics. Except one jacket. Might be harder for ladies, I guess?

Well, women do have a tendency to like buying shoes and other stuff, more so than men.
Oh and there is the whole "vegan & non-animal tested make-up"-thing guys don't need to delve into.


Why would cotton be off-limits for vegans?:smallconfused:

Well, isn't it obvious (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_Lamb_of_Tartary)! :smallmad:

Seriously though, I have no idea why cotton would be non-vegan.

[Boo]

Why would cotton be off-limits for vegans?:smallconfused:

I don't know...

Maybe it's because I accidentally typed it while thinking up outfit designs and decidedly decreed cotton as off-limits to vegans?

EDIT: fixed that up nicely.

[Ichneumon]

Silk is off-limits though, not that I often encounter stuff made from silk anyway.

Oh, question: Do any of you know whether Warhammer (Games workshop) miniature paint is vegan?

[Deadly]

Been a vegan for... 5 years last month? If my memory serves, my god it's really been that long? :smalleek:

Although I've had a number of slips in that time, always when I am stressed out and otherwise not in my best mood. At those times I don't feel like cooking or putting an effort into anything, and there aren't exactly a lot of vegan fast food options around here. None, to be precise. My slips have all been because of stress and depression and general lack of will to cook and eat properly. I always feel really bad about slipping, which just makes my mood worse :smallfrown:

When I'm not stressed out or anything I don't find it hard, though. On a daily basis it's just me, and while it can be hard to find certain specialties (silken tofu!) around here I don't usually miss anything much (aside from silken tofu!). It is a little sad when everyone wants to go out and have pizzas at the local fast food restaurant, where they may have vegetarian options but never anything even remotely vegan. I get by, though, by reminding myself that going out is about being social, not about eating.

As for clothes and such... I stopped paying a lot of attention to it after a while, when I realised that all my clothes were already made from cotton or synthetic materials. On occasion I do look at labels, but it's not something I am fanatic about to be honest.

No idea why cotton wouldn't be vegan either.

[Zeb The Troll]

1 (12 ounce) package frozen burger-style crumbles

wtf is that though?This. (http://morningstarfarms.com/product_detail.aspx?family=366&id=324)

http://morningstarfarms.com/images/ServeImage.aspx?BID=65771&MD5=ed7ca442e2534afd3314043d41c223ec&w=250

[Quincunx]

There's cruelty-free silk available, where the cocoons are harvested after the silkworms have discarded them, from the same sort of suppliers which carry hemp-blend fabrics. They're slubby fabrics because of the chewed and shortened fibers--none of those sleek silks--but the price premium was not that bad. The initial sticker shock of silk applies to all varieties, it seems. Cruelty-free silk should satisfy the class of vegetarian which would use wool but not sheepskin.

[xPANCAKEx]

Any vegan cookies? I'm eating cookies, so I thought "why not ask".



i make vegan cookies, as do many other people. Comercial brands-wise? In the UK McVities HobNobs are vegan. If you go to a local health food shop or holland and barret they usually stock various tasty cookie treats



...though most everything I wear is cotton or denim or synthetics. Except one jacket. Might be harder for ladies, I guess?

suprisingly no - ladies have it easy. Theres FAR mor vegan friendly ladies foot-wear companies than there are for men. Ladies usually get far more range of styles available than guys do. The problem with a lot of dress/non-casual shoes for vegans is they've been... well.. hideous. In the last half decade they've started cottoning on that people like to look good.

http://www.thediscerningbrute.com/

this chap has a good blog. Some damn tasty Pea coats have been floating through it recently. I might have to lash out.

[kpenguin]

Silk is off-limits though, not that I often encounter stuff made from silk anyway.

Artificial silk is presumably okay though?

[Kneenibble]

Ahh... :smallsigh:
Silk, my one great hypocrisy. Unlike George Costanza and his velvet, I actually do drape myself in silk and make it socially acceptable, dangnamit. I'm not fully vegan though, and I admire the convictions of those who take that difficult road even away from the dinner table.

To answer your question from before, though, Quincunx, I think that to throw away and abstain from second-hand leather or fur is wasteful and inappropriate. I purchase wool but not leather (hence why silk is the hypocrisy), and eat milk, but not flesh. I'm of the opinion that animal husbandry is an important part of human's earthly experience and based on all my academic research (although I have no field experience, so to speak), holistic agriculture is impossible without it. Even orthodox Hindus will make leather goods from a cow who died of age.

Is the quality of that humane silk comparable to a raw silk texture? By slubby you mean the bulges in the weave, right?

I'm really glad this thread is here again, and I'm really glad that you gave the provisos you did, dear Pancake man. Cheers.

[Ichneumon]

Artificial silk is presumably okay though?

Of course, but to be honest, I just stay away from silk. I don't feel the the extra clothing options of being able to wear silk are really worth the trouble. I mean, I wouldn't really wear silk to begin with.

[WarBrute]

I've been a vegetarian since I was about four. It just sorta naturally came to me, no one else in my family was at the time. Luckily my parents were really good about it. I think it was because I mom tried to be a vegetarian when she was a teenager but her parents forced her out of it. (She is now a vegetarian)

I had a question for PANCAKE. From your name I assume you like pancakes. (Am I right?) If so what do you use to make vegan pancakes?

[Ichneumon]

I had a question for PANCAKE. From your name I assume you like pancakes. (Am I right?) If so what do you use to make vegan pancakes?

I know I am not Pancake, but I use this for my vegan pancakes:

-0.5 liter soy milk
-250 gram flower
-2 tablespoons of olive oil
-1/4th teaspoon of salt

Oh and if you do it correctly, you can't taste the difference.

[xPANCAKEx]

I had a question for PANCAKE. From your name I assume you like pancakes. (Am I right?) If so what do you use to make vegan pancakes?

i'll try n dig out the recipe later on, but baiscally its:
sweetened soy milk
soft brown sugar
vegatable oil
egg replacer powder
self-raising flour (one of the few things i ever use white flour for)
salt
baking powder
cinammon
and blueberries if i can get hold of them

it ends up more of an american style thick pancake than a european style thin-crepe but drizzled with maple syrup, lemon juice, maybe a sprinkle more sugar its definately a tasty breakfast treat

never tried Ichneumon's suggestion of using gram flour, might have to give it a whirl

[Tiger Duck]

There is something like gram flour? Edit, after some googling I know there is.
Either way I'm quite sure she meant Gram the quantity.

[Ichneumon]

There is something like gram flour? Edit, after some googling I know there is.
Either way I'm quite sure she meant Gram the quantity.

I did. I meant to say, use 0.25 kilograms of flower.

[WarBrute]

Thanks for the ideas. I buy all my dairy products from local small farms which can be pretty expensive so I'm always looking for ways to limit my use of it.

[Trog]

This. (http://morningstarfarms.com/product_detail.aspx?family=366&id=324)

http://morningstarfarms.com/images/ServeImage.aspx?BID=65771&MD5=ed7ca442e2534afd3314043d41c223ec&w=250

I've had these before and they are indeed a good meat substitute. Very tasty. I need to pick them up more often actually. P=

And uh oh... I just noticed on that page you linked that product contains egg whites. Isn't that a veggie no-no? :smalleek:

[SDF]

It is a vegan no-no, there are a good number of veggies that eat animal byproducts.

[Dallas-Dakota]

I thought eggies were okay for veggies and a no-no for vegans?

[Quincunx]

. . .Is the quality of that humane silk comparable to a raw silk texture? By slubby you mean the bulges in the weave, right? . . .

That is indeed what I meant, but I am apparently well behind the times. This supplier (http://www.aurorasilk.com/fabrics/silks_matte_and_peace/index.html) offers fabrics spun from foraged cocoons, smooth weaves, thicker fabrics than those flimsy special-occasion silks, even a knit or two (by the gods do NOT look at the price on the non-slubby knit unless you NEED a stretch fabric), and most importantly thread, which wasn't at all available the last time I looked! The site also stocks 'ordinary' silk, so you can compare the price premium for humane silk. As for why it exists, some people swear by natural fibers only, or feel that the substitutes for silk and wool are unnatural (and polluting--'ecological' bamboo is one of the worst offenders!) in their processing.

*****

An earlier incarnation of the thread hinted that a mashed-up banana in a baked recipe was a good substitute for the glutinous qualities of egg. I can't stand bananas, though, and the taste does NOT bake out. (Heck, a banana is pungent enough to taint bread merely stored next to it on the countertop.) Would a squash or sweet potato, cooked and mashed, work instead?

[xPANCAKEx]

applesauce can work well as an egg sustitute apparently?

but i normally just use egg replacer powder and oil

[Ichneumon]

I thought eggies were okay for veggies and a no-no for vegans?

Well, the words vegetarian and vegan are quite confusing, as through history and different societies and contexts, they've been used to mean different things.

However, the most commonly accepted definitions of the words are, as I understand them:

Vegetarian: Doesn't eat meat from animals. Most people view fish as meat too, however, others, don't. Most vegetarians I know include not eating stuff with gelatin in their vegetarianism. Seafood, I don't know the general consensus.

Vegan: Doesn't eat/drink any animal products (meat (including seafood), eggs, dairy products and honey) and tries not to use products made from or with animals, as far as is practically possible*. This means vegans wouldn't use things made from fur, leather, wool, and silk.

*The practically possible part is to exclude things like the animal products that are/might be in the floors in public spaces for example, which are out of your control, but you technically still use them when walking on them.

That's the dictionary definition I'd give, on the hows of vegans/veggies.

Wikipedia seems to distinguish the following types of vegetarians:
-Lactoovo-vegetarians: Who each no meat, poultry or fish. The default meaning of the word "vegetarian".
-Lacto-vegetarians: Who eat no meat, poultry, fish AND no eggs.
-Ovo-vegetarians: who eat no meat, poultry, fish AND no diary products.
-Vegans: who eat no meat, poultry, fish, diary products and no honey.

Of course, in practise, whether something is un-veggie or un-vegan really depends on the why's of veganism/vegetarianism, which is something we are not discussing. I just wanted to give an overview of what the general consensus is of the meanings of those words.

[WalkingTarget]

Vegetarian: Doesn't eat meat from animals. Most people view fish as meat too, however, others, don't. Most vegetarians I know include not eating stuff with gelatin in their vegetarianism. Seafood, I don't know the general consensus.

Well, for my mother at least, it means no meat, fish, or other "take an animal, kill it, and eat it" types of things. That includes not using lard in pie crusts or gelatin in homemade jelly. She's fine with eggs and dairy, though.

[WarBrute]

applesauce can work well as an egg sustitute apparently?

but i normally just use egg replacer powder and oil

I made some ginger cookies, using applesauce. However it still had one egg in it but that's less than what I would usually use for the recipe.

[Trog]

applesauce can work well as an egg sustitute apparently?

but i normally just use egg replacer powder and oil

I know applesauce can be used as a butter substitute for cookies (and possibly other baked goods?). It makes them a bit doughy but a lot lower in fat and such. I've had far more of those than I care to recount. :smalleek:

[thorgrim29]

Well if used for frying you can replace oil with rendered duck fat... oh, wrong thread right? :smallredface:

[Gullara]

I know applesauce can be used as a butter substitute for cookies (and possibly other baked goods?). It makes them a bit doughy but a lot lower in fat and such. I've had far more of those than I care to recount. :smalleek:

Apple sauce is ok in cookies, but I much prefer butter.

[Ichneumon]

I just use plant-based butter, which, depending on brand, can taste quite well.

[Coidzor]

I just use plant-based butter, which, depending on brand, can taste quite well.

hmm, Margarine has a brother now?

[xPANCAKEx]

of the widely available uk brands, Pure brand soya margarine is great for cooking

the sunflower oil variety of it tends to burn

[Coidzor]

Hmm? How's it differ from the oil for cooking with? Isn't it basically just trans fat version of soy oil?

[Kneenibble]

Since it's emulsified and stabilized with a liquid and salt and possible arcane-sounding stuffy-stuff, margarine behaves differently in baked goods than plain oil. It imitates butter because butterfat, through churning, is emulsified with whatever water and other milk solids remain after skimming the cream.

Oh yeah, and
There is more than one process used to emulsify and stabilize the margarine -- it's possible to make margarine with only traces of trans-fats. I guess the really awful one that employs hydrogenation is either the cheapest, or just gives the longest shelf-life.

Oh yeah, and and and
Another effective substitute for eggses is flax seed goo. It has all the texture and flavour of bran-flecked *** on its own, but it binds quite well and adds some of the eggses' rich texture to the product on account of its fatty-fat content.

[Zeb The Troll]

Interesting query that just came up through a random series of events that are totally not related to this thread...

How would having Celiac Disease, an autoimmune response that causes the body to react poorly to gluten (it destroys the villi in the small intestine), change your day to day life as a veggie/vegan since you would have to, in addition to avoiding animal products and by-products, keep to a very strict gluten free diet?

[Ichneumon]

Interesting query that just came up through a random series of events that are totally not related to this thread...

How would having Celiac Disease, an autoimmune response that causes the body to react poorly to gluten (it destroys the villi in the small intestine), change your day to day life as a veggie/vegan since you would have to, in addition to avoiding animal products and by-products, keep to a very strict gluten free diet?

I guess it would complicate things a little bit more, but not so very much significantly, from a day to day basis, I think. As a vegan, you're already used to not being able to just grab something in the supermarket and you are used to searching for alternatives and being inventive to make sure you've got something healthy to eat. You're already used to, to some degree, check ingredient labels and search for alternatives, so I can imagine it not being that much different. I do realise though that it is of course another option limiting factor, but I don't think it would makes things impossible or extremely more difficult.

[xPANCAKEx]

How would having Celiac Disease, an autoimmune response that causes the body to react poorly to gluten (it destroys the villi in the small intestine), change your day to day life as a veggie/vegan since you would have to, in addition to avoiding animal products and by-products, keep to a very strict gluten free diet?

i actually know a fair few gluten intollerant veggies and vegans. Many restaurants flag up the wheatfree items on the menu - so in terms of eating out its not so much of a hassle

as for day to day life, i couldn't really comment from personal experiance, but they certainly all seem to manage without too much hassle

[Dragonrider]

as for day to day life, i couldn't really comment from personal experiance, but they certainly all seem to manage without too much hassle

One of my friends is allergic to soy, gluten, and dairy, and she basically lives off rice, broccoli, hemp protein, quinoa, and hazelnut milk. She manages okay, but everything has to be planned around the fact that she can't eat most foods. It's a lot of hassle.

[TRM]

I have an unrelated question. Which foods, if any, tempt you the most? Are there any that manage to break your resolve?

For me it is hot dogs. Sad, I know; if I ever come home and there are hot dogs chilling in a pan, ready to be eaten by my carnivorous family, I have to leave the kitchen immediately or I will succumb (and I have, on multiple occasions).

[Zeb The Troll]

Actually, now that I think on it, Alarra was telling me of an episode of Top Chef last season where the challenge was "Cook for Zooey Deschanel" because she's vegan and allergic to wheat gluten (though Celiacs also can't have barley or rye glutens). She said her diet consists mostly of salads of different varieties and was exceedingly happy to see the spread they made for her.

[xPANCAKEx]

I have an unrelated question. Which foods, if any, tempt you the most? Are there any that manage to break your resolve?

For me it is hot dogs. Sad, I know; if I ever come home and there are hot dogs chilling in a pan, ready to be eaten by my carnivorous family, I have to leave the kitchen immediately or I will succumb (and I have, on multiple occasions).

nothing tempts me enough personally. I miss eating fish and good cheese, but thats about it, but as im happier living without i think i'll be just fine :smallwink:

as for hot dogs, that really is a suprise there are so many vegan or veggie alternatives im suprised you've yet to find one that really works for you? One brand - teval (teaval? tival? its a kosher-friendly brand) - seems to trick more than few meat eaters. Shop around. try things out. Attend food fairs if you can as they're usually full of samples. Many companies will let you order by post if no where close stocks the kind you like, and many health food shops (especially local independant stores) will order things in if you ask them

[Matar]

Okay so.

I have a few things of Tofu. Firm, soft, and extra firm. I have some... Red Miso paste, and some Tempah (Soy and Veggie).

I've tried following the direction of the Miso paste container to make some soup, but it's so... bland.

SO! I need your help, dear Playgrounders! Does anyone have any advise, recipes, or anything at all as to what I can do with all this stuff? 'Cause I've followed some online directions and it didn't do jack to make it taste better. It's so... bland.

PS: I also have some Veggie Burger mix that is freaking AMAZING. It's better then a normal burger, which was rather... shocking.

[Nerd-o-rama]

You missed /jp/ Friendly Banter. This is /a/ Media Discussions. Oh wow the equivalence really is scary

[Matar]

OPS. I'm so used to coming here that I didn't notice. Sorry all D:

Anyone mod mind moving this to the proper area? You'll have my thanks =3

[Poison_Fish]

You could use the miso base to make some ramen. In general though, throw in some green onion which always helps to improve miso's flavor.

Are you a vegetarian or any other dietary reasons behind your miso soup making? That limits some recipes overall.

Anyhow, my basic miso soup recipe is what you have there + some Wakame(Seaweed fit for consumption), a few cut up mushrooms (****ake work well, slice em thinly), adding more flavor to it, go for some chopped up scallion.

There you go, basic miso soup, very similar to the type you'd get at restaurants.

[Ichneumon]

I have an unrelated question. Which foods, if any, tempt you the most? Are there any that manage to break your resolve?


No, not really. I'm not really "tempted" by anything. Sure, a lot of things smell nice, but I know very well want I want, and being unvegan is certainly not something I want. I'm a really resolute person, when I'm absolutely convinced of something, I am going to do it, and at that point not doing it isn't something I consider a possible alternative. I guess it is different for other people and would, I imagine, also depend on the reasons why they're vegan. But these are my experiences.

[Joran]

For the miso soup, it sounds like you kept the tofu in large blocks. You need to sort of mash it up into smaller pieces so the soup flavor will seep into the tofu. Tofu itself is bland, but with the right sauces, it can be delicious.

Aside from miso soup, here are a couple suggestions:

My favorite type of tofu dish is Mapo Tofu. It's pretty spicy, so the tofu won't be bland anymore.

Traditionally, it has minced meat, but I've seen versions that are vegetarian.

Likewise, the Koreans have a nice tofu dish called soon dobu, which again can be spicy to the point of radioactive.

I don't know the recipes but the Internet and Google should help you out.

Finally, my mom used to make rice porridge. We'd have tofu drenched in soy sauce, which tasted pretty good.

[Matar]

Are you a vegetarian or any other dietary reasons behind your miso soup making? That limits some recipes overall.

The reason I want to make tasty things with Tofu is really simple... I've never had tasty Tofu. I like trying new things, and making tasty things OUT of new things.

So eet's all gewd. Though stuff that's low in salt would be a nice bonus, so I can share it with my family.


Anyhow, my basic miso soup recipe is what you have there + some Wakame(Seaweed fit for consumption), a few cut up mushrooms (****ake work well, slice em thinly), adding more flavor to it, go for some chopped up scallion.

There you go, basic miso soup, very similar to the type you'd get at restaurants.

Mmm, sounds nice. I'll try it when I can get the stuff. I've heard that the best way to make Miso is to add the Miso to some water, boil the rest of the water, turn off the fire and then add the Miso/Water mix. Any truth to this?

Also: What exactly happens if you over boil miso?


For the miso soup, it sounds like you kept the tofu in large blocks. You need to sort of mash it up into smaller pieces so the soup flavor will seep into the tofu. Tofu itself is bland, but with the right sauces, it can be delicious.

I cut it up into cubes. Should I try pressing it and grating it or something? Would that work better?


My favorite type of tofu dish is Mapo Tofu. It's pretty spicy, so the tofu won't be bland anymore.

Traditionally, it has minced meat, but I've seen versions that are vegetarian.

Likewise, the Koreans have a nice tofu dish called soon dobu, which again can be spicy to the point of radioactive.

I don't know the recipes but the Internet and Google should help you out.

Finally, my mom used to make rice porridge. We'd have tofu drenched in soy sauce, which tasted pretty good.

I'll give those a shot when I get a chance.

I just made an Omelet with the Veggie Tempah. It was rather good, but... different. I needed to add more veggies to it I think.

[RS14]

I have an unrelated question. Which foods, if any, tempt you the most? Are there any that manage to break your resolve?


Good salami when I've been awake and backpacking since 5AM and have just climbed a big hill at the end of the day, and it's going to take half an hour for the water to boil so we can make lentils, and all I had for lunch was trail-mix with PB&J.

Circumstances have more to do with it than the virtues of the food itself.

[Fri]

I remember an american said their tempe is different than our 'real' tempe. American tempe taste like cardboard compared to 'real' tempe, I heard. But if you like it, good for you. Maybe she just got some bad stuff.

[xPANCAKEx]

If i know im going to be cooking with tofu the next day, I always try to find time to slice/cube it and then marinade it over night, even if just in soy sauce or with a few spices thrown in. Then i can throw it into some stiry fry or something the next day for some tasty goodness.

[Burley]

Oh my grosh, folks. I found the best marshmallows ever. And, get this: No Gelatin.
I got them at whole foods. The individual marshmallow is of a strange pillow shape, which isn't wrong, but there's just something about it that confuses me for some reason.

Anyways, I'm super psyched because I was able to make rice-crispy treats, completely organic- and vegan-friendly. Squeeee!

The actual treats are fan-freakin'-tastic, too. The mashmallows are so gooey. But, my girlfriend put butter in the chocolate that I was dipping some of them in. Now the chocolate has a funky taste and it won't set right, but... that's beside the point. I still love her. :smallamused:

Anyways, if anybody has a Whole Foods around them, I highly, highly suggest these babies.

[X2]

Hey people! I got a bit of a problem.

My family are big steak eaters and eat it at least once a week. And for a while I was fine with that and I ate it. But recently I started to get sick of steak and all of those hearty meats. But I endured, I didn't want to aggravate them, but it soon got to the point where not only was I uncomfortable with eating it but I just couldn't eat it anymore.

So I tell my parents this and they leap to the conclusion that I have become a vegetarian and now will absoloutley refuse to serve me anything that has any kind of meat in it at all. And you know what? I don't like this?

I'll eat chicken salad, burgers, fish and the likes but they don't seem to understand this when I tell them? I don't know if this goes here or in Relationship Woes but I figured here would have more knowledge relevant to my situation.

[Ichneumon]

Xartyve2, I've sent you a pm about this.:smallsmile:

[SuperMuldoon]

It's the thread I've always dreamed of! Since I've missed a few things, I'll just post some stuff!

First, a recipe! Vegan brownies! (http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Vegan-Brownies/Detail.aspx)
Super easy to make and taste AMAZING :smallbiggrin:

I've also been on a chickpea kick lately...made some chickpea curry and then chickpea cutlets, both of which are super delicious, and not hard to make either! (noticing a theme?) I can post those recipes later if people want :smallsmile:

As for vegan footwear and other apparrel, www.mooshoes.com is good if you live in the New York area, or you can get their stuff shipped to you as well. I have a pair of hemp sneakers that I rock on a daily basis and are super comfortable.

If you are vegan and don't know where or if there is a vegan friendly place near you, check out www.happycow.net. This site has a search function that locates within a selected radius around a location any vegan friendly places, such as restaurants or healthfood stores. This has saved me when I was going on vacation to someplace I didn't know. A great resource!

:smallbiggrin:

[xPANCAKEx]

man... if i had money i would lash out a lot on this company. Matt And Nat (http://www.mattandnat.com) make such nice bags its unreal. Sure, some of them are hideous too, but some of them gorgeous. And they use lots of recycled materials, and are all vegan friendly

rejoice

[Ichneumon]

man... if i had money i would lash out a lot on this company. Matt And Nat (http://www.mattandnat.com) make such nice bags its unreal. Sure, some of them are hideous too, but some of them gorgeous. And they use lots of recycled materials, and are all vegan friendly

rejoice

OMG, such nice bag.... I want.

[Serpentine]

Hey people! I got a bit of a problem.

My family are big steak eaters and eat it at least once a week. And for a while I was fine with that and I ate it. But recently I started to get sick of steak and all of those hearty meats. But I endured, I didn't want to aggravate them, but it soon got to the point where not only was I uncomfortable with eating it but I just couldn't eat it anymore.

So I tell my parents this and they leap to the conclusion that I have become a vegetarian and now will absoloutley refuse to serve me anything that has any kind of meat in it at all. And you know what? I don't like this?

I'll eat chicken salad, burgers, fish and the likes but they don't seem to understand this when I tell them? I don't know if this goes here or in Relationship Woes but I figured here would have more knowledge relevant to my situation.That's weird. Hey, how old are you? Perhaps you could offer to cook dinner one night, and make it the tastiest, meatiest, non-steak meal you can think of. I'd get so sick of steak if I had to eat it every night... Goes for any other foodstuff.
Not really veg, just wanted to duck in to offer a suggestion <.< Glad to see this thread had degenerated into neither veg*-bashing nor omnivore-belittling :smallsmile:

[Ichneumon]

Not really veg, just wanted to duck in to offer a suggestion <.< Glad to see this thread had degenerated into neither veg*-bashing nor omnivore-belittling :smallsmile:

Don't worry, the thread hasn't reached page 50 yet, anything can still happen. :smallwink: I'm surprised too, though, to have reached 4 3 pages without any real emotional stuff.

[Trog]

Got a veggie-related question for all:

What vegetables and fruits do you regularly stock in your kitchen? :smallsmile:

[Ichneumon]

Got a veggie-related question for all:

What vegetables and fruits do you regularly stock in your kitchen? :smallsmile:

Okay, let the list begin! I do NOT claim this list is in any way complete.

-olives
-tomatoes
-cucumbers
-gherkins
-eggplants
-different kinds of lettuce
-alfalfa
-pickled onion
-paprika (red and green mostly, but also yellow)
-tomatoes
-parsley
-basil
-garlic
-different kinds of apples
-banana
-grapes (not that regularly)
-cumin (only the seeds)
-carrots
-spinach
-peas
-different kinds of beans and nuts, don't going to mention all the different kinds.

okay, I am sure I forgot a lot of them, but this is what I can think of at this moment.

[xPANCAKEx]

vegatable basics:
beans of many varieties
chick peas
lentils
potatoes
cucumbers
lettuce
carrots
bell peppers
cabbage
spinnach
onions

edit: how could i forget olives or garlic

fruit
lemons
apples
bananas
the rest depends on season

also - if we start getting into nuts and seeds the list will grow even longer. It should be noted in my house we buy peanut butter in 2.5kg tubs (crunchy, made from just nuts, oil and salt)

[Serpentine]

A health food shop in my town sells peanut butter that is made from peanuts before your eyes, to the best of my knowledge with nothing but peanuts.

[The Extinguisher]

So I'm rather new at this whole vegetarian thing, and I'm just wondering what are the best and easiest ways to get protein so I don't waste away?

[Coidzor]

Mushrooms are a good source, though I can never remember what food classification mushrooms fall under, I think they're a sort of carb with protein sort of deal. Most beans when combined with rice form a complete set of amino acids.

[Hadessniper]

I've always wondered what strict vegans who try not to use any animal products in their lives think about cats. Do they force themselves to ignore the cuteness because cats are carnivores? Do they settle for birds and hamsters as pets? Do they accept that cats need meat and owning one requires them to support the meat industry?

[Matar]

Is there meat in dry cat food? I honestly haven't a clue.

Erm. Feed 'em fish? Most fish don't feel pain, so I'm not sure how a vegan could against eating fish.

I dunno.

[Ichneumon]

I've always wondered what strict vegans who try not to use any animal products in their lives think about cats. Do they force themselves to ignore the cuteness because cats are carnivores? Do they settle for birds and hamsters as pets? Do they accept that cats need meat and owning one requires them to support the meat industry?

Depending on their views, they either don't "take" any pets or they do. Some feed their animals meat, others don't. It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether that is healthy though, I think. I'm not an expert on this subject, I don't have pets, but I do know that there are lots of people doing it and, at least for dogs, it seems to not cause any problems, when done correctly.


Most fish don't feel pain, so I'm not sure how a vegan could against eating fish.

As far as I know there is no scientific evidence that would lead to that conclusion. And I don't understand, given this context, why you'd assume that, in the absence of any evidence one way or another, other than for convenience sake.

[Matar]

As far as I know there is no scientific evidence that would lead to that conclusion.

I've read a bit on it. From what I can tell, it's...divided. Fish certainly react to getting cut, yeah, but nothing like Mammals or Reptiles.

For example? Go fishing. Catch a fish on a lure. The fish will rip itself apart in order to get away. Animals that feel pain won't do that. Eventually they will give up and stop doing what hurts. Fish... just rip themselves apart until they are too tired to do anything, or they're dead.

From my understanding (Which could be wrong, of course) the way Fish react to getting cut or whatever is the same way an insect does. They react, but it doesn't hurt in the same way a human would be hurt it if happened to them.


And I don't understand, given this context, why you'd think that, in the absence of any evidence one way or another, other than for convenience sake.

Erm, I might be basing this on a flawed understanding on why people are Vegans. They don't want to cause suffering to animals that feel pain. To creatures that seek comfort... right?

Maybe I'm just generalizing, and if I am then I apologize.

[Ichneumon]

The fish will rip itself apart in order to get away. Animals that feel pain won't do that.

Well, some animals even go as biting their own paws off to get free from a trap, I heard, and I've seen people, when highly emotional and in panic, make a wound unintentionally much worse, just because they "wanted to get away".

[Matar]

Well, some animals even go as biting their own paws off to get free from a trap, I heard, and I've seen people, when highly emotional and in panic, make a wound unintentionally much worse, just because they "wanted to get away".

That's very true. However, I think there is a difference in that the animal can't get away and will starve if it doesn't. I might be over exaggerating the intelligence of animals (I own a ton of pets. Those feckers are smarter then what some people think they are =|) but I think that they are aware of the fact that if they don't get away, they will starve to death.

I admit, other then what I know of fishing and some article by someone named Dr. Rose, I don't know a ton about this. I'm certainly no expert.

I've read some articles by Peta that say fish feel pain. But, honestly... I don't listen to Peta. I don't really trust a single thing they say, to be perfectly blunt.

If I'm wrong though, please do correct me.

[Kneenibble]

From my understanding (Which could be wrong, of course) the way Fish react to getting cut or whatever is the same way an insect does. They react, but it doesn't hurt in the same way a human would be hurt it if happened to them.

What's that saying about a duck?
(Did you read the first post, Matar?)


Mushrooms are a good source, though I can never remember what food classification mushrooms fall under, I think they're a sort of carb with protein sort of deal. Most beans when combined with rice form a complete set of amino acids.

You know I never thought of mushrooms as protein before but I guess you're right.

Extinguisher, protein is easy. And I'm sorry to steal your thunder there, Coidzillus, but contrary to the received wisdom one doesn't have to combine proteins like that -- as long as one eats a variety of protein sources in their diet, they have enough amino acids; it doesn't have to be at the same meal. White rice, anyways, has such a deficiency of anything except straight carbohydrates that it wouldn't do much in that regard.

Whole grains have good quality protein; beans; nuts and seeds. Even vegetables, in small amounts. It's very difficult not to get decent protein actually.

[Matar]

What's that saying about a duck?
(Did you read the first post, Matar?)

Ops! I got off track big time >_>

Sorreh, I'll stop the whys. Although I'm still interested in any articles on the subject if anyone wants to PM me them.

So uh, I'm going to make some Seitan tomorrow. Is this awesome? Yes/No.

[Ichneumon]

Erm, I might be basing this on a flawed understanding on why people are Vegans. They don't want to cause suffering to animals that feel pain. To creatures that seek comfort... right?

Maybe I'm just generalizing, and if I am then I apologize.

Ehm, I'm sorry I think you misunderstood me. Anyway, you're right. That's somewhat why most people are vegan, me including.

Anyway, I don't think we should go this road, like Kneenibble said, at least not in this thread.

[Kneenibble]

Ops! I got off track big time >_>

Sorreh, I'll stop the whys. Although I'm still interested in any articles on the subject if anyone wants to PM me them.

So uh, I'm going to make some Seitan tomorrow. Is this awesome? Yes/No.

It's okay, it's just that I've seen some four veg discussion threads go down in flames that started just as innocently as this line of questions. Mr. Pancake Man has done a good thing with his guidelines.

&, Yes.

[Hadessniper]

Is there meat in dry cat food? I honestly haven't a clue.

Yes there is meat in dry cat food, but not enough in the lower quality supermarket brands. Cats are obligate carnivores which means they get all the nutrients they need to live from meat, in fact they have shorter digestive tracts and can't even digest most plants.

[Matar]

Well, I found this stuff.

Which basically shoves a giant middle finger in the direction of the meat industry. (http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=vegancats&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=996364772&Count2=913505196&CategoryID=1&Target=products.asp)

I guess.

I'm not all that shocked though. We invented evil seedless parasite grapes. Don't see why vegan cat food would be any harder. xD

[Zeb The Troll]

Well, I found this stuff.

Which basically shoves a giant middle finger in the direction of the meat industry.You created your link wrong. There's no actual URL in the tag, just the quote.

[Matar]

You created your link wrong. There's no actual URL in the tag, just the quote.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm so lying through my teeth.

[Ichneumon]

Which basically shoves a giant middle finger in the direction of the meat industry. (http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=vegancats&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=996364772&Count2=913505196&CategoryID=1&Target=products.asp)


Now it's a link to a vegan pet food store...:smallconfused:

[Matar]

Now it's a link to a vegan pet food store...

'Cause it always was, obviously.

Gosh, you guys are being really silly today. How about we all just post some recipes and get over this really silly silliness?

<_<

>_>

[Quincunx]

Matar, it's churlish to demand the last word when other people have asked you to change the topic.

It's the taurine which is the problem; cats can't synthesize it and plants don't produce it. Dogs can survive on 'vegan' (in single quotes because I haven't read the composition of it in awhile, but it certainly does look like muesli) pet food, but cats would need synthetic taurine in their healthy vegan feed, the production of which would open up another line of moral inquiry.

[Matar]

Matar, it's churlish to demand the last word when other people have asked you to change the topic.

It's the taurine which is the problem; cats can't synthesize it and plants don't produce it. Dogs can survive on 'vegan' (in single quotes because I haven't read the composition of it in awhile, but it certainly does look like muesli) pet food, but cats would need synthetic taurine in their healthy vegan feed, the production of which would open up another line of moral inquiry.

I'm sorry, but I'm not exactly sure how this had anything to do with what I was talking about. The link that I posted was just to Vegan catfood, that's all. Which... has all the stuff you're talking about, unless the little description is lying or something.

[Ichneumon]

'Cause it always was, obviously.


I see, I'm sorry, I thought your link was supposed to be about those fish. My mistake, I misunderstood your wording.

[Matar]

I see, I'm sorry, I thought your link was supposed to be about those fish. My mistake, I misunderstood your wording.

No... I... Uh.

Now I feel bad >_>.

I'm just... going to... change the subject...

Does anyone have any good recipes for seitan? I have one I really wanna try, but I was wondering what else I could make with it.

[Zeb The Troll]

I see, I'm sorry, I thought your link was supposed to be about those fish. My mistake, I misunderstood your wording.Well, he did post it shortly after Hadessniper responded specifically to the question "Is there meat in cat food?" and not to the whole post and then finished his post with a declaration that he's not surprised he found vegan cat food.

On the production of Taurine, the site has a whole host of vegan cat food brands, all of which I expect to claim contain Taurine. At random I chose one and it claims to have found a vegan friendly way to synthesize it, but doesn't elaborate on it, not surprisingly.

As for needing this Taurine stuff, how much is needed for a healthy cat? I mean, say, for example, I wanted to feed my cat vegan cat food but didn't want to pay $73 for decent sized bag of kibble from this site so I find some locally that is veggie friendly but doesn't have the Taurine. Now, say, for example, that my cat is allowed outside and supplements his diet with the neighbor's bird feeder and the random alley rat... (We can't stop him, we've tried. Keeping him inside is also not an option because we have dogs who need their doggie door.)

[Matar]

I'm sure there are other people who are far more knowledgeable about this sort of thing, but from my understanding is that it should be part of there normal diet. No if ands or buts.

So yeah. That's my understanding at least.

[Zeb The Troll]

I'm sure there are other people who are far more knowledgeable about this sort of thing, but from my understanding is that it should be part of there normal diet. No if ands or buts.

So yeah. That's my understanding at least.I get that, but my query is more along the lines of "is his alley supplemented diet getting him enough of this Taurine stuff?" I can't say for certain how often he does this, but based on the frequency with which I have to clean the basement, I'd say he gets about one animal a week or so.

[Ichneumon]

I get that, but my query is more along the lines of "is his alley supplemented diet getting him enough of this Taurine stuff?" I can't say for certain how often he does this, but based on the frequency with which I have to clean the basement, I'd say he gets about one animal a week or so.

I know this isn't entirely on topic, but I thought I'd read somewhere that all the amount of b12 a human needs, you can get from 1 egg a week. Do any of you know if this is true?

[Hadessniper]

Cats need other things from meat besides Taurine. All catfoods have Taurine in them and if you can find one without it you can bet it's missing other essential nutrients.

[Kneenibble]

It's the taurine which is the problem; cats can't synthesize it and plants don't produce it. Dogs can survive on 'vegan' (in single quotes because I haven't read the composition of it in awhile, but it certainly does look like muesli) pet food, but cats would need synthetic taurine in their healthy vegan feed, the production of which would open up another line of moral inquiry.

Just feed 'em whatever and give them a dish of Redbull every day. There's no doubt about it.

[TRM]

nothing tempts me enough personally. I miss eating fish and good cheese, but thats about it, but as im happier living without i think i'll be just fine :smallwink:

as for hot dogs, that really is a suprise there are so many vegan or veggie alternatives im suprised you've yet to find one that really works for you? One brand - teval (teaval? tival? its a kosher-friendly brand) - seems to trick more than few meat eaters. Shop around. try things out. Attend food fairs if you can as they're usually full of samples. Many companies will let you order by post if no where close stocks the kind you like, and many health food shops (especially local independant stores) will order things in if you ask them
I have found good vegetarian hotdogs, but thanks. :smallsmile: My actual hotdog craving is inexplicable, because I want them even when I have vegetarian alternatives.

[Quincunx]

Just feed 'em whatever and give them a dish of Redbull every day. There's no doubt about it.

Cats. . .hyped. . .up. . .on. . .Red Bull. . .
By the GODS, man, do you not know what you have unleashed??!! They'll shred holes in the very fabric of reality!

(Even if you keep the cat indoors, it will kill--insects and spiders instead of meatier fare, but it's all toys/food to them.)

[Serpentine]

I think you lot will find this (http://blog.une.edu.au/news/2009/12/18/husky-trial-shows-dogs-can-thrive-as-vegetarians/) interesting. Dogs only, at this stage.

[xPANCAKEx]

So I'm rather new at this whole vegetarian thing, and I'm just wondering what are the best and easiest ways to get protein so I don't waste away?

protein is rediculously easy:
dairy
nuts
tofu
rice
QUINOA (its a grain, bigger than cous cous, smaller than rice, but it contains a complete protein with all the essential amino acids
soya milk
cereals
tahini
chickpeas
lentils
beans
wholegrains
soy-based faux-meats

the list goes on

[Matar]

Update!

I just made some Seitan. Man, this stuff looks UGLY when it's just plain old dough. But my god, does it taste good.

I have enough to make another two/three batches... I wonder what I can do with it. >_>

[The Extinguisher]

protein is rediculously easy:
dairy
nuts
tofu
rice
QUINOA (its a grain, bigger than cous cous, smaller than rice, but it contains a complete protein with all the essential amino acids
soya milk
cereals
tahini
chickpeas
lentils
beans
wholegrains
soy-based faux-meats

the list goes on

Alright. Chalk this up to me not knowing anything about food at all. Good to know I won't waste away. I love dairy and whole grain stuff.

[Ozreth]

I've always wondered what strict vegans who try not to use any animal products in their lives think about cats. Do they force themselves to ignore the cuteness because cats are carnivores? Do they settle for birds and hamsters as pets? Do they accept that cats need meat and owning one requires them to support the meat industry?

The difference is that non-human animals eat other animals out of pure necessity and they never, ever take more than is needed. Non-human animals are not completely detached from nature like human animals are.

At this point in the evolution of our society we are completely capable of living very healthy lives without eating other animals. There are so many resources for us to get protein. In fact, studies show that many vegetarians consume more protein than meat eaters. There is protein in SOOOO SO many of the non animal based foods that we all eat on a daily basis, not to mention all of the protein rich mock meats that vegetarians tend to eat. A hunting and gathering lifestyle would be supported by most vegetarians because they realize that such a lifestyle detaches ones self from this destructive civilization and puts them back on par with the rest of the animals in the world, helping to return the planet to a once perfect routine and functionality.

But instead of doing this, we have to eat animal based foods 3 or more times a day, usually with every meal, which is not neccesary for our survival, and is actually less healthy than the alternative.

So, back to the point, vegetarians should not be offended by other animals eating meat, it is what they are supposed to do. Now if cats banded together and started killing billions and billions of animals a year in factory farms so that every single cat in the world can eat meat all day long, that could be a problem.

xPancakex im glad you started this thread : ) are you sxe by chance aslo?

[golentan]

The difference is that non-human animals eat other animals out of pure necessity and they never, ever take more than is needed.

That's... Not strictly true. Carnivores in the wild (and herbivores as well) follow a boom and bust cycle: They'll carve out so much of their food that they can't feed the population and begin to starve, decreasing enough that food stocks can rebound.

I always viewed it as a social issue, as much as anything. I support (sustainable) aquaculture, and environmental management, and the like. But my vegetarianism was based off not wanting to eat anything with a nervous system complex enough to trip my mental triggers. The new vat grown pork looks mighty tempting. :smallwink:

That said, I always cheerfully admitted that if push came to shove I'd bludgeon a baby seal to death with its mother's rib cage if hunger was enough of an issue. Survival trumps empathy for most critters, and if something isn't in my hive I'm not going to weep about it if its death saves the life of something that is.

[Hadessniper]

The difference is that non-human animals eat other animals out of pure necessity and they never, ever take more than is needed.

You've never had a cat have you? A well fed house cat will kill rodents, fish, insects, and birds just for pleasure and their introduction into new ecosystems has been known to decimate local bird populations.

[Serpentine]

May I recommend that we not start down this path?

[Kneenibble]

Edit Actually no, on second thought, this is indeed not a road I want to go down.

...*budgie-kisses Serpentine's avatar under the mistletoe*

[Ichneumon]

Animals do lots of violent things to each other, to animals of other species and to other animals of the their own species. Animals act in violent ways towards each other. In some circumstances we'd say the animals have no choice, while in others they certainly have.

In some ways it is ironic, as these observations of animal violence are often used to argue for something, that saying "we're just animals too" seems to be an acceptable justification for being violent towards animals, while most people who use this argument don't believe the same justifies being violent towards human beings, who are in essence "just animals too" too. This question, is what everybody is actually talking about, I feel, without mentioning it in words.

Obviously discussing the reasons for being veg*n isn't a good idea here, so I suggest we stop talking here about what animals do too and whether it is justified, as in essence in most cases this question is not actually about animals, but about us, and our own behaviour.

[xPANCAKEx]

REMEMBER PLAYGROUNDERS... its a "how" not a "why" thread. Probably best to leave the ethics of pet ownership well alone.


Alright. Chalk this up to me not knowing anything about food at all. Good to know I won't waste away. I love dairy and whole grain stuff.

then fear not, sir! this thread is about helping to educate ourselves, so if you need any more advice then feel free to ask away

a random tip for you
always always always dress your salads with some form of oil/oil-based dressing or vinegrette. You need the oil to help with absorbtion of vitamin K, which will be found in abundance in green leafy veg

[Matar]

I just had taco's made with the Seitan I made yesterday.

It was funderful.

One thing I'm curious about. Are there any good, cheap cheese alternatives? 'Cause I'm a cheese man. I can't live without my cheese <_<

[xPANCAKEx]

I just had taco's made with the Seitan I made yesterday.

It was funderful.

One thing I'm curious about. Are there any good, cheap cheese alternatives? 'Cause I'm a cheese man. I can't live without my cheese <_<

depends what type of cheese you're after and which country you live in

[madtinker]

Does anybody know of a tasty, sort of sweet veggie dish? I'd prefer it if it didn't have any form of bean in it whatsoever.

Spaghetti is not a valid response either.

Sticky almond rice. Delicious, but I don't know how to make it. Other than you need a sticky rice cooker.

[Matar]

depends what type of cheese you're after and which country you live in

The USA. And really, any cheese. I've seen soy cheese but holy cow... that stuff is ungodly expensive!

[xPANCAKEx]

i know the redwood food company (http://www.redwoodfoods.co.uk/) distribute in the states

they make some half-decent melting cheeses

i highly rate sheese (http://www.buteisland.com/) - especially the cream cheese and chives variety, infact all their cream cheeses are pretty nice. Not entirely sure about their hard cheeses though. look through their page for their us distributor

[Matar]

I've seen that stuff actually. It... costs a ton.

Man, I'll check into making my own. How hard can it be? .__.

[skywalker]

Skywalker is considering not eating other animals anymore. Unfortunately, this is a serious question of why (since I know the "how" can be taken care of), so I'm not sure this thread can help.

Sad day.

[Ichneumon]

Good luck, Skywalker! I've sent you a pm, better not discuss this here.:smalleek:

If anyone wishes to talk about stuff (including the why's), they may add me on MSN.

[xPANCAKEx]

skywalker - i'll happily PM you my own reasoning of "why" if it would help in your deliberation

[Gaelbert]

In fact, studies show that many vegetarians consume more protein than meat eaters.

Citation needed. Please.

I made myself some delicious broccoli stir fry with almonds earlier. I've been trying to go vegetarian, but I have some other dietary issues that make becoming vegetarian incredibly difficult, and make going vegan impossible. I don't want to force my family to cater to my vegetarian lifestyle, so I do what I can and wait 'til I move out in a few months. Then I'll try to maintain a fully vegetarian diet.

[Kneenibble]

I've seen that stuff actually. It... costs a ton.

Man, I'll check into making my own. How hard can it be? .__.

I watched a fella make it on his Youtube demonstration just the other day (it wasn't linked from this thread, was it?! I forget how I arrived there). Essentially, it was a mixture of cashew butter (and he did say that certain other nut butters could be substituted) and miso set with agar-agar and chilled in a mould. This was a mimic of cheddar cheese that could be sliced but not melted. The process was fairly simple, and he did recommend a cookbook full of different kind of mimic cheeses, including melty ones. I'll post the link if I can dredge it up again.

[Ichneumon]

skywalker - i'll happily PM you my own reasoning of "why" if it would help in your deliberation

Same here.

[skywalker]

skywalker - i'll happily PM you my own reasoning of "why" if it would help in your deliberation

I would greatly appreciate it, thank you!