Soy Milk Bad For Men?

[Zovc]

I just went to get a glass of milk, and saw that mom got some more soy milk. We still have some regular milk (not skim or low-fat, or anything), but I decided I was to lazy to mix up chocolate milk and poured myself a glass of the (chocolate) soy milk.

As I was pouring it, my mom told me that my brother (who is very much a health buff) says it's bad for men to drink soy milk.

A quick Google search tells me that I shouldn't worry about it, but I really wouldn't expect my brother to be misinformed.

Anyone able to weigh in with sources?

(I'm 19 years old and male [in case that wasn't made clear], if that matters.)

[Rutskarn]

I'm going to go research this, but it sounds like horse puckey internet myth to me.

Anyway, stay tuned.

[Zovc]

I'm going to go research this, but it sounds like horse puckey internet myth to me.

Anyway, stay tuned.

Yeah, I actually had a friend tell me a while ago that it does have some sort of estrogen in it, but it's nothing that would "affect" a man. He didn't say whether or not it did anything to boys, but I doubt it would. Then again, I expect that my friend just spent a few minutes looking at Google search results.

...appreciate the help!

Completely off topic, but is there a better way to look for credible information than to use Google? XD

[Maximum Zersk]

Teh Library!

But even that might be innacurate.

[Devigod]

I have actually heard that before, but as to whether or not its hearsay or supported, I haven't a clue. Obviously, if you have difficulty finding anything about it, the press hasn't thought it an important enough thing to post... that, or PETA is hiding the facts in order to protect the production of soy milk.

So... stay tuned?

[Viera Champion]

I've been drinking chocolate soymilk for the last six years. If it hasn't affected me yet I doubt it ever will. There is nothing to worry about.

[Rutskarn]

According to MedlinePlus, one of the foremost online medical journals:


For individuals who are not allergic to soy, no serious short-term or long-term side effects have been reported from eating soy foods.

[Coidzor]

Hmm. I know Melaleuca stuff and other products with tea tree oil in them can trigger formation of breast tissue in certain males, but it's fairly uncommon.

Well, if your local library has it, or if you're at university, then you can get access to Jstor and other research paper archives, and thus find scholarly articles on certain things, usually harder sciences but there's a couple of variants, a few of which do softer, more social sciences and historical shtuff.

http://www.soymilkquick.com/shouldmenworry.php This seems to indicate that the rumors make soy milk out to contain enough estrogen to lower fertility and "feminize" an individual. Not sure about that last bit, but I imagine it's a euphemism for mammary development.

[Jack Squat]

I personally just can't stand the taste, so I avoid it like the plague. However, according to This completely impartial and unbiased site (http://www.soymilkquick.com/shouldmenworry.php) (:smallwink:) there's no side effects in that department. I'll go ahead and believe them, but I'm still not touching the stuff.

EDIT: Ninja'd by an edit. You shall rue the day Coidz. Rue it! :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

I personally just can't stand the taste, so I avoid it like the plague. However, according to This completely impartial and unbiased site (http://www.soymilkquick.com/shouldmenworry.php) (:smallwink:) there's no side effects in that department. I'll go ahead and believe them, but I'm still not touching the stuff.

EDIT: Ninja'd by an edit. You shall rue the day Coidz. Rue it! :smalltongue:

I already rue it. Then again, I'm freezing my tuckus off due to the toilet being frozen and it being about 10 degrees fahrenheit outside.

They do cite an article though, about how they fed those guys the equivalent of a pint of soy milk's 'phytoestrogen'(isoflavones). I couldn't make sense of the citation they used, so I couldn't figure out the source of it. Hmm. Came out clear the second time I loaded it though.

As a bit of a counterpoint, this article supposed to be from The Guardian, which, well... News, y'know. and three years old and isolated from any prior or later articles. (http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/male_fertility.htm)

This has another rumor mentioned that he could've been going on about, best bet is to ask him himself what the soy's supposed to be doing bad to figure that one out. Something about the phytoestrogen messing with the body's biochemistry since estrogen is involved in fat storage. (http://caloriecount.about.com/soy-milk-estrogen-weight-loss-ft99613)

This is from awhile back and basically sums up a whole bunch of things and contains a fair bit of information. (http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/wl/2002/wlFeatured1102.html)

[Pyrian]

As I was pouring it, my mom told me that my brother (who is very much a health buff) says it's bad for men to drink soy milk.

A quick Google search tells me that I shouldn't worry about it, but I really wouldn't expect my brother to be misinformed.Not misinformed - but perhaps paranoid. It is quite normal for "health buffs" to reject substances on shaky grounds. After all, sometimes their suspicions will turn out to be correct.

I would not even begin to be concerned about this particular possibility unless soy was a very large portion of your diet.

[FoE]

Soy milk bad for you? That's it! I'm switching to a diet of vodka and cigarettes!

[Trog]

Soy milk bad for you? That's it! I'm switching to a diet of vodka and cigarettes!

Slowly Trog's master plan is coming to fruition.

[Haruki-kun]

The following post has no sources, but I'd like to contribute.

It sounds unlikely. People in the far east eat a lot of soy and have the longest lifespan in the entire world. Wikipedia says Macau is number one, and Japan is number 3.

I think this information your brother has is wrong. But really, opinions vary a lot in these things.

[Mando Knight]

The amount of estrogen and estrogen-like chemicals in the soy milk likely isn't enough to cause a major hormonal shift before other chemicals in the drink have their say in how to mess you up. I wouldn't worry about it unless you drink it by the gallon at every meal.

Of course, then there's the fact that soy is used by vegans for protein, and veganism is seen as unMANly by some, so it is bad for MEN who are not MAN enough to kick that silly notion to the curb.

[Winter_Wolf]

Well speaking as someone who lives in China, soy milk is pretty much a staple here for men and women of all ages, and there's really nothing detrimental to the male body. I drink it regularly myself and I've never had any problems on account. It's probably bad for you if you mix tons of sugar and crap into it, but that's not just for males, that's pretty much for everyone.

[DarkMaster]

Not exactly bad but it contains phytoestrogens wich could have some efects on men. But in order to develop you need to eat (drink) a lot of soy.

Edit: Actually doing some research... it seems that, with a "moderate" amount of soy in a man's diet, phytoestrogens have benefficial efects in diabetes and coronary heart disease... and can reduce the levels of cholesterol.

[MyLifeMyMusical]

Soy milk is fine for men; the only problem you might run into is if you eat/drink a lot of soy and are trying to build muscle. The protein in soy requires estrogen to break down, which tend to favor fatty deposits (you know what I mean... :smallamused:) over muscles and can hinder your muscle growth (compared to "natural" protein or base chain amino acids).

[Nameless]

I just went to get a glass of milk, and saw that mom got some more soy milk. We still have some regular milk (not skim or low-fat, or anything), but I decided I was to lazy to mix up chocolate milk and poured myself a glass of the (chocolate) soy milk.

As I was pouring it, my mom told me that my brother (who is very much a health buff) says it's bad for men to drink soy milk.

A quick Google search tells me that I shouldn't worry about it, but I really wouldn't expect my brother to be misinformed.

Anyone able to weigh in with sources?

(I'm 19 years old and male [in case that wasn't made clear], if that matters.)

I’ve actually heard similar things several times on several different occasions. Apparently men consuming large amounts of Soy on a regular basis can us infertile, and can increase your chances of cancer of both genders. However, like I said it’s only in large quantities on a regular basis.

Personally, I quite hate the stuff anyway.

EDIT: I just realised how bad my grammer was there, let me try that again:

I’ve actually heard similar things several times on several different occasions. Apparently men consuming large amounts of Soy on a regular basis can cause infertilility. It can also increase your chances of cancer for both genders. However, like I said it’s only in large quantities on a regular basis.

Personally, I quite hate the stuff. :smalltongue:

There we go.

[Zeb The Troll]

Slowly Trog's master plan is coming to fruition.*buys stock in Coffin Nails and Russia Juice*

[Adeptus]

Soy milk has plant oestrogens.

This can do funny things to a bloke, even in very small dosages. It's a fairly complex thing to study though, but for the time being I avoid tofu and soy milk.

-Adept, who has studied a fair bit of physiology (biology)

[Zeb The Troll]

Soy milk has plant oestrogens.

This can do funny things to a bloke, even in very small dosages. It's a fairly complex thing to study though, but for the time being I avoid tofu and soy milk.

-Adept, who has studied a fair bit of physiology (biology)Sources please? That's the biggest point I've seen in this whole discussion. There are no academically reliable sources that confirm this conclusion.

[Innis Cabal]

In fact there seems to be no evidence to support that at all. Considering soy has been a consumable product going on beyond recorded history and all. If anything, the safety of soy products (Disregarded allergies) seem rather deep rooted.

[Ichneumon]

All plants contain hormones and we all take them in when eating plants. Sex hormones are not each others anti-poles and there are many variants of similar hormones that have some effect one way or another, women need male sex hormones and men need female sex hormones too to function properly. It's quite complex and although I can imagine plant hormones having some sort of effect on the human body when taken in larger than normal quantities, I don't think plant hormones are really a threat to somebody's health when you eat variedly. Some social groups might be exposed more to soy than other groups, like veggies/vegans or people who eat lots of "factory food", but I don't think it becomes a real danger unless you start to base your diet on soy or something.

[Erothayce]

Um I've been eating tofu and soy milk and other soy products for 5 years now and I haven't been affected in any way. So through personal experience I'd say that nothing happens.

[Ichneumon]

Also, there are quite a lot of animal growth hormones in cow milk that I think we should be more worried about, if we are comparing the same quantities of intake. Although I don't know whether any scientific tests have been done on that.

[hap_hazard]

Heard about a guy who drank soy milk daily/for every meal/dunno. Apparently the people at the coffeeshop finally refused to sell him any more when he grew boobs and started lactating.

[The Rose Dragon]

Heard about a guy who drank soy milk daily/for every meal/dunno. Apparently the people at the coffeeshop finally refused to sell him any more when he grew boobs and started lactating.

A friend of a friend of a cousin of a roommate of a former girlfriend told me that soy milk makes you more manly. Clearly it must be true, since why would they lie or make stuff up, right? :smalltongue:

What I'm trying to say is, that's a really flimsy source to put in your bibliography.

[Zeb The Troll]

Heard about a guy who drank soy milk daily/for every meal/dunno. Apparently the people at the coffeeshop finally refused to sell him any more when he grew boobs and started lactating.I find this difficult to believe. If drinking soy milk/eating tofu had the same efficacy as straight hormone injections, I think we'd have heard about it before now and a certain group of people would be saving a lot of money right now.

[Ichneumon]

Heard about a guy who drank soy milk daily/for every meal/dunno. Apparently the people at the coffeeshop finally refused to sell him any more when he grew boobs and started lactating.

I don't think that's possible. If things were that easy, all transsexuals would start to use soy with all their meals.

EDIT: Ninja'd....

[hap_hazard]

Yeah, I heard it in school. Wouldn't call it reliable. :smallbiggrin:

Srsly though, most of my male friends drink soy milk regularly and they seem fine.

[Totally Guy]

I don't think that's possible. If things were that easy, all transsexuals would start to use soy with all their meals.

Half the transexuals.:smallamused:

[Ichneumon]

Half the transexuals.:smallamused:

Indeed, pardon me for my generalization.:smallamused:

[SMEE]

I wouldn't worry about it.
Unless a person is VERY susceptible to estrogens, it won't do anything to them.

I'd know. I've been taking 6mg worth of estrogen per day for a LONG while and I can say that the change while noticeable is lesser than one would expect. I started to lactate when I changed from shots to pills, though. But it's no longer a problem.

The amount of oestrogen found at soy products is negligible for the huge majority of the population.
So, drink your soy milk without fear. If it was any efficient, I'd eat tons of soy every day. :smallannoyed:

[Erloas]

Um I've been eating tofu and soy milk and other soy products for 5 years now and I haven't been affected in any way. So through personal experience I'd say that nothing happens.

Well that really proves nothing more then someone claiming it did make a difference to them. Also it is one of those things that probably takes decades to make a difference or the differences might not be something you would notice without specifically knowing to look for it. For instance the infertility thing isn't going to show up unless you are trying to have kids and even then just because it lowers your fertility (if we were to assume it actually does) doesn't mean it will lower it to a point where you can't have children at all.

One other thing to keep in mind, with a lot of food based effects, it changes a lot based on the culture. The people of a culture that has access to a lot of any product (for generations, not just years) will develop changes that will let that product be more useful to them. Cow milk is a good example of that, you get more lactose intolerant the less you consume it, and some cultures are much more tolerant of it then others. There are a lot of products (both plant and animal) that will cause large changes in the digestive system if they are consumed a lot or only very rarely. Beans I've heard give you a lot less gas if you eat them regularly but if you only have them randomly then they will give you bad gas because your body doesn't have the enzymes required to digest it properly.


From what I've read for most people soy milk isn't any better for you then skim milk and might even be a bit worse. Also from what I've read rice milk is better for you in almost every way compared to soy milk. Rice milk (at least here) is just as available and the same price as soy milk so that is what I drink instead. Which isn't to say that soy milk is bad, just that it isn't necessarily the best option either. It seems everyone knows about soy milk but very few seem to ever bring up rice milk.

[alchemyprime]

Yeah, I actually had a friend tell me a while ago that it does have some sort of estrogen in it, but it's nothing that would "affect" a man. He didn't say whether or not it did anything to boys, but I doubt it would. Then again, I expect that my friend just spent a few minutes looking at Google search results.

...appreciate the help!

Completely off topic, but is there a better way to look for credible information than to use Google? XD

One glass a day? Totally healthy. In fact, incredibly healthy.

The "unhealthy for men" thing came from a guy who drank the equivalent of a gallon a day and ate a whole bunch of tofu. The result? He grew boobs and got some mood swings (like any guy being pumped full of phytoestrogens would.

Me? I'm already chemically imbalanced. Too late for me. *chugs soymilk*

[Closet_Skeleton]

Yeah, I actually had a friend tell me a while ago that it does have some sort of estrogen in it, but it's nothing that would "affect" a man.

Men produce estrogen (and women testosterone) naturally anyway.

[Zovc]

Men produce estrogen (and women testosterone) naturally anyway.

I wouldn't dispute that (unless I had credible testimony contrary to it), this is more wondering if it's possible to upset the "balance" with some soy milk.

Which, I believe the answer is "yes, but you never will," or "no, you never could."

Either way, I'm content with having a glass once a week or even less. XD

[AtomicKitKat]

The following post has no sources, but I'd like to contribute.

It sounds unlikely. People in the far east eat a lot of soy and have the longest lifespan in the entire world. Wikipedia says Macau is number one, and Japan is number 3.

[not entirely serious]
Heh. Longer lifespan=feminine trait. Asians have less terminal/facial hair, more paedomorphic features in general=feminine trait.
[/not entirely serious]

Okay, on to the "serious" stuff. Note that these all apply to men, and to a lesser extent, women(due to the T/O balance being something like 3/97 in women, and 90/10 in men. Numbers probably not accurate, but you get the idea). Increasing the oestrogen levels in one's body leads to different fat distribution(chest/hips/thighs vs belly), which, in the long term, decreases your chances of dying from that thing where fat accumulates around the internal organs. If you consume large enough quantities, your sex drive could drop(testosterone in both sexes increases sex drive). That being said, if you're in the early stages of puberty, when your hormone receptors are just "opening up", guys consuming more than a carton(roughly 1L, or about a foot high by 4 square inches) a day* could probably notice more effects(the more "beneficial" would be softer skin/fewer acne breakouts, and reduced facial hair growth=less time wasted shaving) than a grown man. For young women undergoing puberty, it could increase bust growth, but also stunt future height(high levels of oestrogen close off the epiphyseals on the long bones, ending pubertal growth spurts).

*I've only ever consumed about 2L in a single day once. Too liquid a diet though, and I was already in my mid-20s by then.

[Zincorium]

From what documentation I've seen, absolutely massive amounts daily (upwards of two gallons) can have cosmetically detrimental effects to men who have relatively low levels of testosterone. Or children.

Seriously, unless you notice a problem resulting from it, don't worry. But don't give your baby soy milk until we really know- they're not as tolerant of things as we are, and symptoms that are minor in adults can be difficult to deal with as a child.

[Adeptus]

Sources please? That's the biggest point I've seen in this whole discussion. There are no academically reliable sources that confirm this conclusion.

The above is from several courses and discussions with physiologists and environmental chemists much more experienced than me. Here's a research paper abstract I found in 2 minutes of searching. Feel free to use the keywords to look for more:

Exposure of juvenile rats to the phytoestrogen daidzein impairs erectile function in a dose-related manner in adulthood.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17673432?ordinalpos=962&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

[Mando Knight]

The above is from several courses and discussions with physiologists and environmental chemists much more experienced than me. Here's a research paper abstract I found in 2 minutes of searching. Feel free to use the keywords to look for more:

Exposure of juvenile rats to the phytoestrogen daidzein impairs erectile function in a dose-related manner in adulthood.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17673432?ordinalpos=962&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

It says that it's only significant in the 20 mg/kg and 100 mg/kg daily doses tested. For a 70 kg adult human, that's between 140 mg and 700 mg a day. According to this document (http://www.zerobreastcancer.org/research/bcerc_factsheets_phytoestrogen_daidzein.pdf), there's only about 12 mg of daidzein in a cup of soy milk. In order to reach the 140 mg dosage, you would need to have a high-soy diet... such as drinking a gallon of soy milk each day, or eating soy-based products almost exclusively.

In order to get more serious side effects from the phytoestrogens in soy milk than just erectile dysfunction, you're likely to OD on something else in there first.

[Coidzor]

^: I'd say ED would qualify as a side effect to stand up and take notice of. Or rather, not.


Of course, then there's the fact that soy is used by vegans for protein, and veganism is seen as unMANly by some, so it is bad for MEN who are not MAN enough to kick that silly notion to the curb.

Well, y'know... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ARealManIsAKiller) :smallwink:

[Adeptus]

I'm a finn, we drink milk and eat cheese. It's a nordic thing.

I'm also a biologist and rather worried about the chemicalisation of the environment. While I like vegetarian food a lot, I avoid unfermented soy products like soy milk.

[Brother Oni]

Exposure of juvenile rats to the phytoestrogen daidzein impairs erectile function in a dose-related manner in adulthood.


In addition to Mando Knight's comments, those effects were observed in rats, not humans.

While useful to observe gross toxicity, animal data is of limited use to estimating effects in humans.


I'm a finn, we drink milk and eat cheese. It's a nordic thing.

Alas some of us hail from hot countries where milk consumption was limited or non-existent prior to the invention of refrigeration and thus calcium enriched soy milk is the only tolerable source we can ingest. :smallwink:

[Coidzor]

Alas some of us hail from hot countries where milk consumption was limited or non-existent prior to the invention of refrigeration and thus calcium enriched soy milk is the only tolerable source we can ingest. :smallwink:

Only tolerable source of what? :smallconfused:

[Faulty]

Milky beverege?

[Fuzzie Fuzz]

Fear not, 'tis a myth. And soy is actually really good for you.

[Brother Oni]

Only tolerable source of what? :smallconfused:

Protein supplement and calcium.

True there are other foods which do the same, but soy milk is more efficient for both, especially in countries where meat consumption is restricted, either for economic reasons or religious ones.