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AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-10, 04:56 PM
I know my earlier posts have been confusing at best. However, I did enjoy looking at the Druid class more extensively (ty on my 5th wheel thread for the concept)

I have some likes, and some dislikes, so I want to (if possible) bypass the weaknesses of some druid builds.

And I know somebody's gonna suggest MoMF or Warshaper, but those are just "Wildshape Abuse." I had considered the following:

Dragonwrought Jungle Kobold
Druidic Avenger 4/Barbarian 2/Lion of Talsid or a different prestige 2

This gives me caster as druid, raging, an animal companion (if using loT), and Wildshape boosts

However, I'm willing to hear other ideas, so please just post either ideas or critiques.

Glimbur
2009-12-10, 05:52 PM
Druid 8. Focus on Wis and Con. Take Natural Spell.

The rest is intelligent spell selection and use, and other tactics. Greenbound Summons (a feat from ???) is quite powerful. Multiattack (a core feat from the Monster Manual) is nice if you're turning into something with lots of natural attacks.

mostlyharmful
2009-12-10, 05:55 PM
MoMF and wildshaper are both big steps down in druid power.

Max Wis, take Natural spell, have a non-negative Con. Congrats, you're now overpowered. Continue for as many Druid levels as you can get.

Leon
2009-12-10, 06:57 PM
The two above me are your stock standard answer, your opening concept sounds much more fun.

mostlyharmful
2009-12-10, 07:02 PM
The two above me are your stock standard answer, your opening concept sounds much more fun.

I'll agree with that. no wait... STORMWIND......

Anonanimal
2009-12-10, 07:22 PM
I'll agree with that. no wait... STORMWIND......

No, the Stormwind Fallacy is that optimization = the opposite of roleplay, and more of one means less of the other. "Fun" is divorced from this equation, though I will admit it is implied.

What I think Leon was saying is that the build above is technically not as optimized as a full druid because it drops two caster levels, but it can still make for a very fun build. I don't know about Lion of Talisid, as I've never read through the BoED, but a druid using natural spell as an animal with Rage stacking with the Barbarian's (or at least having more uses), plus the Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian sub level that grants Pounce would indeed be a more fun build than the standard. Plus, Lion Totem Barbarian + Lion of Talisid sounds like a fun theme.

EDIT: That said, if you're not using the Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian (not just Lion Totem, the variant in Complete Champion), I wouldn't bother with the Barbarian levels, as Druidic Avenger already offers rage. Once again, I'm not really qualified to comment on Lion of Talisid, but I remember hearing good things. It's hard not to make a Druid powerful, so I think AGG has a little more freedom with this build than with, say, a Wizard build, where taking random levels in a melee class = death. As long as there's still some good synergy, "suboptimal" is not really a problem with the "Two-Bears-Mauling-You-While-Nature-Itself-Tears-You-Apart" Druid.

Karoht
2009-12-10, 09:05 PM
I did 5 levels straight druid and 3 levels Lion of Talsid and took Natural spell.
So the 'Tank' of the party dives into combat. I turn into a cat, and my 2 animal companions (both cats) + 4 more summoned cats decided to open up combat with 'Pounce'

Dear god it was brutal. I had never rolled that many attacks, much less that much damage dice in one shot, below level 10, in my life.

Worse part was, I forgot the spell that would have given me 2 more arms. And I think I could have cast it on my two animal companions.

Okay, aside from crazy damage time...
The rest of the encounter was very fun, mostly because it was run and gun, which works well with druid playstyle. Or at least my playstyle when playing a druid. It worked really well for a tactical playstyle without feeling like I was commanding minions to do my bidding. I would run over and attack something, heal myself or my pets, pounce over to where party members were in trouble (usually killing something in the process), heal, buff, summon up more kitties, whatever.
It was about 5 straight encounters (not counting a lot of weaker mooks and such between encounters), and I had exhausted every wild shape, every spell slot, everything by that point. But the party very much agreed that I had to play this build more because I had prevented quite a few deaths and done a huge amount of damage that day.

Sadly, I haven't played him since that great day. It's been almost a full year. *tear*

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-10, 11:27 PM
So, the idea of the "Big Bad Kitty Druid" is an all go? Say go 5 lvs druid 3 lvs LoT on a "race x" with a Wis bonus, since wis is everything.

Would "Zen Archery" be a good "Plan B" type feat, since it changes Ranged attacks to Wis based over Dex?

Karoht
2009-12-11, 04:16 PM
So, the idea of the "Big Bad Kitty Druid" is an all go? Say go 5 lvs druid 3 lvs LoT on a "race x" with a Wis bonus, since wis is everything.

Would "Zen Archery" be a good "Plan B" type feat, since it changes Ranged attacks to Wis based over Dex?
Wis and Con are big for Druids. Sometimes your con will matter for the creature you turn into, sometimes it won't. Dex is slightly important, but ignorable for shape shifting. same with strength. Int is still important for skills, moreso if you plan on doing any funky wizard multiclassing, but largely not important for purposes of Big Bad Kitty Druid build.

PS-Be female. Then the party can refer to you as crazy cat lady.

Re: Zen Archery
I've always liked the build, but druid with a bow (if that's what you are refering to) just... doesn't seem right for some reason. Shapeshifting is very melee oriented. But range is range, and an ambush is an ambush. I could see a bow being useful in some situations for a druid but...

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-13, 04:59 PM
I see. So find a race with a non-negative con and wis modifiers?


And the DM says I can wildshape infinite times per day. However, my creatures are limited. I picked Smilodon as my most fave followed by Panther and Snow Leapord (I have a Dire Lion and Tiger for companions)

And as for the tolerences, I need a +1 LA or less Race with a wis and/or con modifier and non-negative of the other. And no broken Kobold abuse either. My DM says if Im a Kobold, I will die.

Gnorman
2009-12-13, 06:20 PM
I see. So find a race with a non-negative con and wis modifiers?


And the DM says I can wildshape infinite times per day. However, my creatures are limited. I picked Smilodon as my most fave followed by Panther and Snow Leapord (I have a Dire Lion and Tiger for companions)

And as for the tolerences, I need a +1 LA or less Race with a wis and/or con modifier and non-negative of the other. And no broken Kobold abuse either. My DM says if Im a Kobold, I will die.

Aasimar might work for the whole "I am an exalted druid" thing. Or Mongrelfolk, for near-animalistic nature to begin with.

Or, you know, catfolk. But they don't have WIS/CON bonuses.

Ernir
2009-12-13, 06:41 PM
Lion of Talisid 5 gives you pounce, so you could actually take a Fast Movement barbarian. :smalltongue:

The Glyphstone
2009-12-13, 06:49 PM
I see. So find a race with a non-negative con and wis modifiers?


And the DM says I can wildshape infinite times per day. However, my creatures are limited. I picked Smilodon as my most fave followed by Panther and Snow Leapord (I have a Dire Lion and Tiger for companions)

And as for the tolerences, I need a +1 LA or less Race with a wis and/or con modifier and non-negative of the other. And no broken Kobold abuse either. My DM says if Im a Kobold, I will die.

Kobolds make horrible druids with their massive CON penalty, don't be a kobold.

If you're limited to # of forms chosen, pick for versatility - Smilodon, Panther, and Snow Leopard are all basically bit attack cats. Smilodon is an excellent combat form. Pick a form that can fly (Dire Eagle or Dire Bat), and either a form that can swim (if you expect to encounter water frequently) or a form with good senses for scouting (Dire Wolf is a good one).

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-13, 07:14 PM
Its more like I chose to use those three most commonly, considering I am using a Druid5/LionofTalisid3