Seduction rules and mechanics?

[nonamearisto]

I know that WoTC wouldn't touch these with a 10-foot pole, and some material is rather... over-the-top. Does anyone here have some sort of rules they homebrew in their games for this sort of thing?

[Solaris]

... I'll tell you what I tell my players: If you're looking for sex or anything sexlike, D&D is not the place to start.
Diplomacy or Bluff checks. Take your pick. Then Con checks. Bam. Done.

[jmbrown]

Roleplay it. Seduction is one of those things that doesn't translate well into a mechanical "roll this and get above this." Diplomacy may involve seduction, it depends on how you play it out in game.

As for coming up with mechanics, you have some work on your hand. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; a dwarf probably won't take too kindly to an elf hitting on them but there could be dwarves that like that sort of thing. You'll have to consider asexual intelligent creatures like mind flayers who're probably only turned on by how large your brain is. Yeah, any kind of seduction skill will have some serious restrictions as far as fantasy races are concerned.

[Edwin]

Actually, there's an entire 3rd party book that deals with seduction, childbirth, and, well, other illicit acts and things related to it. The name eludes me, however.

It's 2e, though.

[Solaris]

Actually, there's an entire 3rd party book that deals with seduction, childbirth, and, well, other illicit acts and things related to it. The name eludes me, however.

It's 2e, though.

There's also one in 3E. Likewise, its name escapes me.

[Kallisti]

BoEF might have rules. But the question is: Would it really be wise to put those tools in the hands of players?

Go watch The Gamers 2 for why the answer is a resounding no. Especially around bards.

[ZeroNumerous]

Actually, there's an entire 3rd party book that deals with seduction, childbirth, and, well, other illicit acts and things related to it. The name eludes me, however.

It's 2e, though.

There's the Book of Erotic Fantasy in 3.x. But, honestly, no matter what you do it'll be creepy if it's only between you and your friends.

Personally, I'd just use a series of diplomacy checks in D&D.

[Edwin]

BoEF might have rules. But the question is: Would it really be wise to put those tools in the hands of players?

Go watch The Gamers 2 for why the answer is a resounding no. Especially around bards.

We didn't say it was a good idea, just that is was possible. :smallamused:

It's horribly yucky.

[nonamearisto]

Ugh... the BoEF... not what I had in mind... too weird.

Still, thanks for all the advice!

[The Tygre]

I believe the book you're looking for is the Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. You'll actually want the second edition one for seduction, although I recommend trying to grab the d20 one if you can find it. I still keep parts of the second edition around, though. It's fairly systems-neutral, and if I recall them correctly, the seduction rules shouldn't even need conversion. Also, I might recommend grabbing a PDF of Mongoose Publishing's Quintessential Temptress.

[Mulletmanalive]

I actually DO have rules for such things, but only because it's a different Social Arena...rather than getting a leg over, it's proven a highly entertaining way of weedling information out of NPCs.

If you want a simple solution to the whole "I woo her" type thing, try and track down books 1 and 3 of Mongoose Publishing's Infernum: Adventure in Hell game [it's awesome but took some modification to produce the best game i ever played in], which has a full spread of rules for manipulating others, including grovelling, seduction, intimidation, reason and bargining.

[dsmiles]

Do you really need rules for this? If so, the BoEF is the only sourcebook I know of to cover it, but I think RP would work just fine.

[lesser_minion]

If a PC wants to go all the way with an NPC, just cut to the next morning. I don't really see an actual depiction of such an act adding anything to the game.

Romantic relationships can theoretically be explored in an RPG, but I get the impression that they are one of the hardest things to handle well.

In any event, rules for establishing romantic relationships would be either useless or counter-productive.

The closest thing to an official seduction rule is the favourable circumstances rule.

[Calmar]

Diplomacy (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html) with a circumstance bonus or penalty of 2 or 5, depending on whether the person likes you, or not.

[Mulletmanalive]

Romantic relationships can theoretically be explored in an RPG, but I get the impression that they are one of the hardest things to handle well.

Oh, verily, it is. If you're from Bristol, I suggest asking around for a character by the name of Big Sally, a recurring character who has repeatedly been used by UOB GMs to block such things [usually begun by the creepiest guy in the group aiming their comments at male GMs...]

On a rules related note, i think madly in love is one of the very few conditions, along with mother for child where the Fanatical attitude is relevant without magic or Epic manipulation being involved.

[The Tygre]

Dug em' up. Here's the old second edition rules;





SEDUCTION: MORE THAN REACTION ROLLS
This is a simple yet effective way to handle a seduction. It is far more fun than making endless reaction checks and it certainly keeps players on their feet.

The following are the steps for seducing:

* When the character first comes in contact with someone he/she wants to seduce, a normal reaction roll is made. If the reaction of the victim is friendly, then a seduction may take place.

* The preliminary moves are made (i.e. role playing) and attribute checks are made. The seducer makes a Charisma check with modifiers from Table 1. The victim makes an Intelligence check (to see if he/she is dumb enough to fall for it) with modifiers from Table 1. If the seducer beats the victim's roll by 4 or more, he/she is doing well and may continue.

* The GM decides how many more checks should be made with suitable pluses or minuses to the attribute rolls (take into account how well the player is role playing). Usually no more than three more successful checks are necessary. Failed checks mean that the victim of the seduction lost interest, but the seducer can try again with the Charisma check halved (its not easy to get back up on that horse after being shot down).

Table1: Attribute Modifiers
Moves Made Seducer Victim
Drunkenly -2 +2
Sleazy/Raunchy -1 +1
Aggressive +1 -1
Gentleman/Lady +2 -2


SEDUCTION FOR THE PROFESSIONAL
Certain characters (see the sub-classes in this guide) have a special benefit of seduction. This ability that differs from the seduction rules above is described here. Note that these rules are not gender specific but are given as if the Seducer is a woman.

The Seducer has a special power of seduction. Seduction is an ability which is used against individual males of the same or similar race as the Seducer. The Seducer's percentage chance of seducing is given by the following formula:

Seducer's level
-------------------------- X 100
victim's level + modifiers

TABLE 1: CUMULATIVE MODIFIERS; IF VICTIM IS...
Fighter +3 Elf/Half-elf * +1
Rogue +3 Dwarf/Gnome/Halfling +2
Mage +4 Orc/Half-orc -1
Cleric +5

* +1 for each outsider (see below)

Table 2: CUMULATIVE VICTIM'S WISDOM MODIFIER
1 -6 08-14 0
2 -4 15 +1
3 -3 16 +2
4 -2 17 +3
05-07 -1 18 +4

Table 3: OPTIONAL SEDUCER'S STATE OF DRESS MODIFIER
Heavily clothed +1
Scantily/Provocatively clad -1
Nude -2

(The latter state will not be terribly practical under most circumstances, and might well lead to arrest for indecent exposure.)

A seduced person will drop his weapons, become oblivious to his surroundings, and attempt to engage the Seducer in a passionate embrace. In such a state he is extremely vulnerable (especially to kiss spells which are very popular amongst Seducers). However, if the Seducer does not attempt to use a spell on a seduced victim, he is allowed to make his save vs. spell. If this is successful, then he realizes what has happened in which case the seduction is broken and he cannot be immediately seduced again. Breaking the seduction, however, does not affect the success of the spell being used.

Seduction cannot be used in combat and cannot work against other females except those that are homosexuals. The presence of other individuals in close proximity (within ten feet, or obviously watching) will reduce the chance of success of the seduction attempt. For each outsider present, add 1 to the modifier.

Seduction lasts for a number of turns equal to five times the Seducer's level, or until broken. It can be broken in a number of ways, i.e. if the Seducer attempts to use a kiss spell as above, or if she resists his attentions (the victim is allowed his save vs. spell each time she does so), or if the victim is attacked. In the latter case, the seduction is instantly broken.

Seduction can only be used on a single individual at a time; a Seducer may use the ability a number of times per day equal to her level.

EXAMPLE OF THE USE OF SEDUCTION: Lirona the Seducer (3rd level, human) is attempting to seduce Thad Leaf the thief (5th level, human). The scene is the Golden Griffon Inn. There are a number of other people present but no one is paying any particular attention to the pair. Lirona's chance of seducing Thad is equal to 3 (her level) X 100 divided by 5 (Thad's level) +3 (modified for a thief), i.e. 300 / 8 = 37.5%. Lirona rolls 30. Success! Thad is taken in by her charms. however, a bar is no place for a romantic liaison. Eagerly he accompanies her upstairs to her room, his arm around her slim waist, not suspecting the fate that awaits him when he gets there...!

[Closak]

Huh?
Well i be damned, this explains a lot.

Now i understand what sir bucket was talking about :smallannoyed:


I teach him what happens when you try to trick Closak! :smallfurious:
*Takes out rusty kitchen knife*

[nonamearisto]

Yeah. I'm thinking, at this point... those are some very good rules...

I might just try a few simpler rolls though...

A diplomacy check for attracting the target, a second check for seducing him/her/it (it? :smalleek:), a pair of rolls for how... well the actual act went... and some con check for pregnancy.

[Lysander]

Seduction in DnD is essentially your friend soliciting you for phone sex in front of your other friends. Creepy to an extreme.

Having said that, it's not so bad if it's just saying "as a handsome bard you can assume I spend my evening doing something X-rated" rather than acting out "I go up to the bar maid. 'Prithee maiden, what art thou doing tonight?' I say to her. Sense motive check to see if she's up for a backrub."

[root9125]

There's the Book THAT MUST NOT BE NAMED in 3.x. But, honestly, no matter what you do it'll be creepy if it's only between you and your friends.

Personally, I'd just use a series of diplomacy checks in D&D.

You understand, of course, that the reason the name of the book eludes people discussing it is that it is absolutely terrifying.

[Zeful]

Seduction in DnD is essentially your friend soliciting you for phone sex in front of your other friends. Creepy to an extreme.

Having said that, it's not so bad if it's just saying "as a handsome bard you can assume I spend my evening doing something X-rated" rather than acting out "I go up to the bar maid. 'Prithee maiden, what art thou doing tonight?' I say to her. Sense motive check to see if she's up for a backrub."

That depends really, in a hack and slash game it would be maybe two diplomacy rolls, a percentile roll, and if necessary, a fort save, and maybe some grapple and Use Rope checks if he gets caught for the inevitable shotgun crossbow wedding.
In an intrigue-heavy game, where well placed seduction can determine not just what information you get, but also what the NPC does afterwords, it's best to swallow your pride and roleplay it out (to a specific limit, then it's back to the dice).

[The Tygre]

I'd post the rules for the rest of stuff but (insert witty/raunchy pun about ban-hammer).

http://frederatorblogs.com/channel_frederator/files/2009/10/bugsasgroucho.jpg

[Weimann]

I feel there's some confusion of terms in this discussion. Seduction doesn't always imply the intent of sleeping with the target. Therefore, it's relevant to have rules on how to go about it, since the outcome could have a mechanical effect on the plotline.

Let's say a diplomat sits on important information regarding governmental affairs with his country. I fail to see why it would be more acceptable to ambush him and bully the info out of him, than making a socialite seduce him and whoo it out. That can be likened with a battle for a reward, maybe even awarding xp, and as such needs rules in order for the players not to feel that they are left to the whims of the DM (and also, maybe, to make the act complex enough to warrant an xp reward).

The fact that seduction MAY lead to sexual stuff doesn't mean that the seduction in itself should be avoided. Naturally, what you might wish to avoid is players explicitly playing out sex scenes, but that's a whole other subject, which doesn't have to do with game mechanics.

The rules presented above seem logical to me.

[Ryerbiar]

Nymphology is something you might want to read, but that's more for a joke then actual mechanics. The whole thing deals with sex related magic and even has a whimsical mechanic for when those bed springs are bouncing.

[The Tygre]

Nymphology is something you might want to read, but that's more for a joke then actual mechanics. The whole thing deals with sex related magic and even has a whimsical mechanic for when those bed springs are bouncing.

Heh... mystical pimp. I'm surprised I wasn't kicked out of Books A' Million for that. But I prefer Quintessential Temptress and their rules for Brothels/Prostitution. It's weird, but even as a joke Quintessential book, the mechanics are still detailed, balanced, and fun to read... NOT THAT WAY.

[SurvivorX]

It's one thing to deal with a PC trying to seduce an NPC, but what about the other way around?

A PC doesn't even need to roll a sense motive or anything to figure out what's going on (I mean, really. If the GM had some random chick hitting on my character, I'd give it better-than-even odds that it's a succubus or something similar.) How would you deal with that situation?

[Ecalsneerg]

Actually, Wizards did publish seduction mechanics, and gave it to Swashbucklers as a dead level filler: That said, it is essentially a Bluff check that takes a couple of hours to pull off. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x)

[The Tygre]

It's one thing to deal with a PC trying to seduce an NPC, but what about the other way around?

A PC doesn't even need to roll a sense motive or anything to figure out what's going on (I mean, really. If the GM had some random chick hitting on my character, I'd give it better-than-even odds that it's a succubus or something similar.) How would you deal with that situation?

Well, you just put your finger right on it. I know if there's an NPC in my campaign hitting on one of my PCs, it's a given that she's probably a vampire or an aranea or a viral STD carrier, at least. That said, I just describe how the NPC acts, a rough summary of what they say, and make a few secret die rolls.



Actually, Wizards did publish seduction mechanics, and gave it to Swashbucklers as a dead level filler: That said, it is essentially a Bluff check that takes a couple of hours to pull off.

Not the fun kind. :smallcool:

[Anonymouswizard]

Do you want your campaign to be like this (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=951) orthis (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=975)?

[The Tygre]

Do you want your campaign to be like this (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=951) orthis (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=975)?

Already is, mah boi. And we've been laughing our asses off the entire time.

[Ouranos]

I don't recall where I got it and I don't have a hosting site, but am sure you can find it. The d20 Book of Sex. Got it as a joke because I was running a campaign with an NPC half dragon that the PC's decided at random they wanted to eam up with instead of let him help them with one quest then leave, and the female player (of the female drow decided he might be able to bring her power, so we found the book and she seduced him and despite the epic penalties to drow fertility... she still ended up with twins. By the way, if you DO find said book, look up "The Bitch Table". Fun.

[SurvivorX]

Well, you just put your finger right on it. I know if there's an NPC in my campaign hitting on one of my PCs, it's a given that she's probably a vampire or an aranea or a viral STD carrier, at least. That said, I just describe how the NPC acts, a rough summary of what they say, and make a few secret die rolls.


But what sort of die rolls? I can understand rolling to see how an NPC reacts to a character, but what do you do for vice versa?

DM: "The woman hits on you."
P1: "What? Why me? Charisma is my dump stat, and I just walked into the town sweating and bleeding after that dungeon. There's something fishy here..."
P2: "Bet you she's secretly a tiefling or something."
P3: "Hey yeah! That description totally matches."
P1: "Bull****! I lop off her ****ing head!"
DM: "Sorry, nope. Her Bluff roll was too high. You give in immediately."
P1: "..."
P2: "I think you should lop off the DM's head."
P1: "Way ahead of you."

[The Tygre]

But what sort of die rolls? I can understand rolling to see how an NPC reacts to a character, but what do you do for vice versa?



Oh, various fortitude saves n' such; STDs, pregnancy... how good she is in the sack. That kind of thing.

[deuxhero]

Actually, they did touch it. Dead Levels II (think it was that, know it was a web article) gives Swashbuckler a "seduce to learn secrets" ability.

here
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x

[onthetown]

Roleplaying it out seems more logical than statting it. I quite enjoyed seducing NPCs when I had a drow priestess. :smallamused:

If you stat it, Will saves for either party (whoever is being seduced) seems reasonable. I guess every time you make another move would be another Will save, sort of like every time you make a new Bluff is another Sense Motive roll for whoever is being lied to (as far as I know, anyway).

Then you would have to factor in appearance, charisma, and how hard they're trying to come on to you or vice versa...

Wouldn't it just be easier to roleplay it?

[Jolly Steve]

You'll have to consider asexual intelligent creatures like mind flayers who're probably only turned on by how large your brain is.

"Seriously, she had huge wits..."

[The Tygre]

"Seriously, she had huge wits..."

...

That was beautiful. Seriously, nothing could possibly describe how much that made me laugh when I first read it.

[Jolly Steve]

Thanks :smallbiggrin:

[Knaight]

I believe the book you're looking for is the Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. You'll actually want the second edition one for seduction, although I recommend trying to grab the d20 one if you can find it. I still keep parts of the second edition around, though. It's fairly systems-neutral, and if I recall them correctly, the seduction rules shouldn't even need conversion. Also, I might recommend grabbing a PDF of Mongoose Publishing's Quintessential Temptress.

The book you are looking for is House of the Blooded. Because at this point, at least you have a setting where it works.

[imp_fireball]

Here's my take:

Two types of seduction

Diplomacy - The nice way of seducing someone (AKA 'sexy talk'). Make a diplomacy check to arouse the other person and swindle them into doing it with you. If the person is aware that you are seducing them (usually a simple sense motive check, which can be competed with a bluff), then they may roll a diplomacy check to resist your advances. If they choose not to will you away, then the person merely has to improve your attitude to friendly.

Intimidate - Scare the person into doing it with you via threats or speaking in a commanding manner. This versus an opposed intimidate check. This is more or less rape, except that the person won't be thrashing around (which would be rape via grapple check). Depending on how well you intimidate them, they may or may not agree later on that they consented.

Conditional Modifiers - If the character considers you attractive, there's a conditional modifier.

Attractiveness

Same Race - +0 Modifier
Different Race - -2 Modifier
Same Gender - -6 Modifier (unless gay/bisexual), or -4 penalty if Gayness/Bisexuality is tolerated to full extent by their culture to the point of being 'hip', or -8 if the reverse
Different Gender - +0 Modifier
Androgynous Gender - -4 modifier
Transexual (or hermaphrodite) - -4 modifier
Funky, third gender - -4 modifier
If person being seduced is asexual - -6 modifier
If person being seduced is honor bound to celibacy - -10 modifier
Person is of a culture that encourages promiscuity or worships a god of such - +4 modifier

Admirable Qualities - Roll 1d6 or decide beforehand which attribute the character desires in another individual. Depending on what they roll, apply your modifier for that attribute as a conditional modifier to your diplomacy or intimidate check for seducing this individual.

Strength (muscle fetish) - 1
Dexterity (fetish for 'interesting positions') - 2
Constitution (fetish for those who can keep it going) - 3
Intelligence (fetish for the skilled and meticulous lovers) - 4
Wisdom (fetish for those with a little meaningful imagination) - 5
Charisma (fetish for expressive lovers; note that charisma modifier to diplomacy still applies in this case) - 6

Nymphomania (trait, or quality acquired from sanity rules) - Nymphomania is a mental disorder in which the individual desires to bed with anyone, possibly without care for the consequences.

When determining desired attributes, roll 1d4. This is the number of additional attributes you may determine at random. If you roll an attribute twice, then that conditional modifier applies twice or more if you roll it more than twice. Every attribute that the nymphomaniac rolls stacks modifiers to determine the total conditional modifier.

Ie. Joe with a charisma of 13, Strength 16, Dex 14, Constitution 6, Wis 10, and Intelligence 8 desires to seduce Clarissa.

He rolls a diplomacy check - Ordinarily he has a +5 modifier to diplomacy (4 ranks + 1 for charisma), however because Clarissa happens to be a nymphomaniac (lucky Joe), she gets to roll a 1d4 to determine the number of additional attributes she might desire. She rolls a 3, which totals four possible attributes. She now gets to roll 4d6. She rolls a 1, 4, 5, and 6. The 6 allows her to roll again, upon which she rolls a 2.

Clarissa thusly desires Strength (+3), Intelligence (-1), Wisdom (+0) and Dexterity (+2) in Joe. The sum of these modifiers is +4, thus Joe applies a +4 to his diplomacy check, totaling a modifier of +9.

If Clarissa had, ie., rolled intelligence twice as a desired attribute, then Joe's intelligence would have accounted for a -2 modifier.

Choosing desired attributes instead of rolling

Some people may desire all 6 attributes and some can desire a number at GM discretion.

Also Spells

Neutralize Ovaries
Enchantment (Charm) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature capable of reproduction via birthing (usually female)
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Via incredible emotional suggestion, this spell influences the brain of the subject that they are infertile. For as long as the caster wills, they will no longer be able to give birth. If they are presently pregnant, they must succeed on a fortitude save equal to the will save DC, or lose the pregnancy immediately - which in turn causes nausea for 1d6 days and 1d10 constitution damage.

The spell itself was created by wizard in the service of a lusting king who wished to keep his harem of elite nymphs 'forever beautiful'.


Maketh Thy Balls Inert
Enchantment (Charm) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature capable of reproduction via fertilization of a birth giver (usually male)
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Via incredible emotional suggestion, the subject, assuming they have the anatomy for fertilization (ie. testicles) is convinced that they have lost all potency.

Appoint Life Giver
Transmutation
Level: Clr 1, Pal 1, Drd 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 50 ft.
Target: One Creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: None

An impotent creature is now potent. A birth giver is now fertile. If creature is pregnant, then they give birth immediately and painlessly.

Cure Conceptual Mishap
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Brd 3, Clr 2, Drd 2, Healing 2, Pal 3, Rgr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: No

Any negative effects to do with pregnancy or whatever may cause harm to the baby (whether before or during delivery; this includes natural ailments such as a deformed baby) are now negated completely. Unwilling creature can make a will save to avoid this.

Bestow Birth Traits
Conjuration
Level: Brd 4, Clr 3, Drd 3, Pal 4, Rgr 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: No

The cleric must make a caster level check versus the pregnant creature's fortitude save (whether or not the creature is willing). Success indicates that they may modify traits of the baby to whatever they desire. This includes making the creature be of a certain race, however every LA above that of the parent adds an additional plus one to the parent's fortitude save. If the new creature is of a race that is naturally larger than the parent, then the parent must later make a DC 12 fortitude save while giving birth or suffer 1d6 constitution damage for rupturing; success indicates that they suffer half damage.

Each size above the size of the parent adds a +4 to the DC of the fortitude save as well as an additional 1d6 constitution damage. Therefore, a creature of a race that is naturally three sizes larger than the parent requires a DC 24 fortitude save while the parent is giving birth as well 3d6 constitution damage on a failed save (half damage on success).

In addition to race, the cleric can desire up to 1d4 traits and flaws in the creature, attributes with up 2d6 total sum of modifiers (or 3d6 if they succeed on their caster level check by 10 or more), gender, alignment, as well as appearance. Should they desire, they may even make a clone of themselves.

Instill Personality
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Clr 5, Drd 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Whatever the pregnant creature gives birth to; pregnant creature must be touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: No

The caster instills a copy of their own personality, or of someone they have been in close contact with for a year (ie. adventured with, companion relations, intimate relations, etc.). The target creature acquires all of the mental attributes (intelligence, wisdom, charisma) of the personality of whomsoever the caster chooses, as well as their likely mannerisms, from birth to adult age.

The person is essentially a mental clone of the existing chosen personality, however they still have their own will. Most likely, they may eventually be of the same alignment as the chosen personality. They will also likely lead an entirely separate life from the chosen personality.

At will, the caster can also 'de-activate' this spell, removing the personality from the target and wiping its brain - thus reverting all mental attributes of the target to zero (no save unless at GM discretion). The target dies, and all knowledge it has thus acquired is transferred over to the personality of whomsoever was the 'original'. This does not however, include XP and 'knowledge' merely precludes memories. At GM discretion, the original can have an XP reduction when choosing to learn things that the clone had known.



Bestow Maturity
Transmutation
Level: Clr 4, Drd 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Round
Range: Touch
Target: Creature of an age category younger than 'adult'.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: No

The creature becomes an adult. All of their mental and physical attributes are adjusted with this change in accordance with the age table in the SRD.
Creatures immune to aging are unaffected.

Bestow Youth
Transmutation
Level: Clr 4, Drd 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Round
Range: Touch
Target: Creature of an age category greater or equal to 'adult'
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: No

The creature ages 'backwards' 1d4 categories. Their mental and physical scores are adjusted accordingly. Creatures immune to aging are unaffected.

Bestow Elder
Transmutation
Level: Clr 7, Drd 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Round
Range: Touch
Target: Creature of any age category
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: No

Target immediately ages 'forward' 1d4 age categories, adjusting their mental and physical ability scores accordingly. If the target is of a difference race however, then a caster level check + wisdom modifier versus target HD must be made - this is due to the advantages that some races such as dragons may acquire from aging. The caster may also find it difficult to imagine what a creature of a different race than themselves might appear like later in life.

Bestow Knowledge
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Clr 4, Drd 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Round
Range: Touch
Target: Creature of an age category younger than 'adult'.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: No

The target creature receives a number of ranks in a number of knowledge skills equal to however many you may wish to grant them, up to a maximum equivalent to the amount of ranks you have in any number of knowledge related skills. Alternatively, they instantly learn to speak a number languages that you know yourself at your choice.

[Mando Knight]

...Who ever has 6 Con but 16 Str?

[lesser_minion]

...Who ever has 6 Con but 16 Str?

I've played a ranger with 8 Con and 16 Str before, although she was an Icewind Dale II character, so she had maximum hitpoints on every die.

[The Tygre]

Good show, Imp! That's exactly the kind of moxie I was looking for!

[lightningcat]

Neutralize Ovaries, Maketh Thy Balls Inert, and Appoint Life Giver might be better off as transmutation spells instead of enchantment spells. And most of the spells that have permanent durations seem like that you really want instantanous duration instead, unless you want them to be able to be dispelled.

[Temotei]

My goodness. Those poor elves.

[imp_fireball]

Anyone feel like bumping this thread (besides me)?

I may continue to add to this thread later.


DM: "The woman hits on you."
P1: "What? Why me? Charisma is my dump stat, and I just walked into the town sweating and bleeding after that dungeon. There's something fishy here..."
P2: "Bet you she's secretly a tiefling or something."
P3: "Hey yeah! That description totally matches."
P1: "Bull****! I lop off her ****ing head!"
DM: "Sorry, nope. Her Bluff roll was too high. You give in immediately."
P1: "..."
P2: "I think you should lop off the DM's head."
P1: "Way ahead of you."

The same could apply to diplomacy or intimidate checks made by other creatures to convince you to give them gold, or do... anything pretty much.

That's why diplomacy requires five minutes or so of interaction (in SRD). During that time, you have free will.

IMO - during debates, you make competing diplomacy checks in front of an audience and you have the option of substituting wisdom for charisma. You can also make knowledge checks to draw up facts to give you a circumstantial bonus.

But that's other uses of diplomacy besides seduction and convincing people to do stuff or changing attitude.

Also, even if the person's attitude changes, that doesn't prevent them from having their own agenda (ie. "This guy's a really cool guy. Too bad I still have to kill him."). If their attitude is 'friendly' while they kill you, they may feel bad about it after wards. Maybe they take a morale penalty to attacks and damage while doing so?
---

Sorry, getting carried away.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'm somewhat surprised that no one has suggested opposed Charisma and Wisdom checks to decide if someone is seduced.

"Do I find him/her/it attractive?"

*roll opposed Cha checks*

"Heck yes. But is it really such a good idea to put out?"

*roll opposed Cha to Wis check*

"*grabs his/her/its purse/handback/sack for said form of contraceptive*"

Edit: This works with any form of seduction really. The first check, one of opposing charisma, sees if your physical attractiveness or force of personality is strong enough to sway the entity. The second check, your Cha roll against their Wis roll, sees if your presence is sufficient enough to override their common sense.

[imp_fireball]

That same GM should allow a wis check for any sort of double take.

Player: I wanna leap from the roof top and perform a body slam on the villain at the cobble stone road below.

GM: Are you sure?

Player: Wait. Wis check?

GM: Success.

Player: Yah. Yah I'm sure.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Sword and Fist actually covered this back in 3.0 [yeah S&F]
Bluff vs Sense Motive,

If the bluff is successful the subject believes the romantic intentions are sincere.
Now if you bluff the Chaotic good rogue who likes a roll in the hay you can probably get something out of it.

If you bluff the Paladin who is utterly devoted and faithful to his wife, he'll politely turn you down.

[imp_fireball]

Usually if there's actual romantic intentions involved then most people require at least a week or more to cozy up to one another. And bluff can apply to anything deception wise so obviously it can apply to pretending to be one's friend and/or lover.

As for seduction - it's basically using diplomacy to arouse them to the point that it overrides any will not to do them. Circumstantial bonus for how unwilling they are to do it (say they're a chaste paladin as opposed to a paladin of a promiscuous god/goddess or they're nervous, etc.), and if you wanna make it extra interesting, apply circumstantial modifier for location (ie. right there in the public) and even what it involves (note that the latter would obviously apply to adult oriented games).