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Curmudgeon
2009-12-10, 08:31 PM
I'd like to make a character that has as many natural poison attacks as I can manage. While I'd be happiest with a poison attack that could be used all the time, I expect natural venom is going to have a recharge cycle; I'd just like to make that cycle as short as possible. So a Thri-Kreen, with a poison bite 1/day, is just not good enough.

It's got to be races/templates that I can use on a PC, so these all need to have official listed LAs. And of course I'd like to keep the racial HD down.

Finally, I really need this to be natural poison. This has to work in a low gp, low/no magic setting without any party spellcasters or any guarantee of acquiring poison elsewhere.

My thinking is, who needs Shivering Touch if you can ratchet down an enemy's ability score with every one of your many swipes in a full attack?

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-10, 08:33 PM
I'd like to make a character that has as many natural poison attacks as I can manage. While I'd be happiest with a poison attack that could be used all the time, I expect natural venom is going to have a recharge cycle; I'd just like to make that cycle as short as possible. So a Thri-Kreen, with a poison bite 1/day, is just not good enough.

It's got to be races/templates that I can use on a PC, so these all need to have official listed LAs. And of course I'd like to keep the racial HD down.

Finally, I really need this to be natural poison. This has to work in a low gp, low/no magic setting without any party spellcasters or any guarantee of acquiring poison elsewhere.

My thinking is, who needs Shivering Touch if you can ratchet down an enemy's ability score with every one of your many swipes in a full attack?

Awakened Fleshraker?

PinkysBrain
2009-12-10, 08:40 PM
Adult neogi monk.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-10, 09:23 PM
Shapeshifter druid could do it, as could wild shape variant ranger.

Depending on your definition of 'spellcaster,' a psychic warrior could count as well, as could a psion.

Play an awakened male platypus? A paladin with a giant celestial scorpion as a mount?

Totemist could do so as well, I think.

Also, anyone with a psychoactive skin of proteus (check the SRD).

[edit] Oh. Divine minion of Set.

Levithix
2009-12-11, 12:39 AM
were-fleshraker

might not be the most optimized, but could be fun.

Tanaric
2009-12-11, 12:44 AM
I second (or third) the notion of an awakened Fleshraker, if only for the mental image of a dinosaur wearing a tophat and a monocle shouting "I say!" at every opportunity.

Annoying accent is optional.

Draz74
2009-12-11, 12:51 AM
Does Totemist stuff count as "natural"? Does Touch of Golden Ice?

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-11, 12:52 AM
I second (or third) the notion of an awakened Fleshraker, if only for the mental image of a dinosaur wearing a tophat and a monocle shouting "I say!" at every opportunity.

Annoying accent is optional.There was already a campaign diary about an awakened deinonychus swordsage named Red. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4954014#post4954014)

It was awesome.

I really wish that campaign hadn't crashed and burned.

Because it was awesome.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-11, 01:48 AM
Druid. You've got 3 poison attacks, your pet has 3 poison attacks, and you can summon things with poison attacks.

And then you add Venomfire...:smallbiggrin:

Tanaric
2009-12-11, 01:52 AM
Well, that's the obvious answer, except for:
This has to work in a low gp, low/no magic setting without any party spellcasters or any guarantee of acquiring poison elsewhere.


So, you know. Tophat dinosaur is a much better idea.

And classy.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-11, 01:55 AM
So, you know. Tophat dinosaur is a much better idea.

And classy."My name is Peanut. Mister Peanut."

Curmudgeon
2009-12-11, 03:29 AM
Does Totemist stuff count as "natural"? Does Touch of Golden Ice?
No; neither of them do.

Also, no change of shape is allowed. It's got to be a permanent form.

The problem with Awaken is there's no listed LA for the changed creature, so it's not allowed for PCs.

EDIT: I looked up Neogi. Even though the MM2 mentions Adult Neogi characters, the 3.5 update booklet still doesn't list a level adjustment, so that isn't going to work.

Druid. You've got 3 poison attacks, your pet has 3 poison attacks, and you can summon things with poison attacks.

And then you add Venomfire...:smallbiggrin:
Venomfire is a spell. Druid is a spellcasting class. How is this supposed to work in a party that's absolutely forbidden to have spellcasters? :smallsigh:

golentan
2009-12-11, 03:33 AM
Well, if 3.0 is grandfathered a Yuan Ti Tainted one gains an unlimited use bite attack, but you have to be grappling. Or trick them into kissing you.

Curmudgeon
2009-12-11, 03:54 AM
Well, if 3.0 is grandfathered a Yuan Ti Tainted one gains an unlimited use bite attack, but you have to be grappling. Or trick them into kissing you.
We need to use 3.5 sources, so that means the version in Serpent Kingdoms instead; LA +3 instead of the LA +2 of Races of Faerūn.

hamishspence
2009-12-11, 04:57 AM
What about "generally accepted" 3.0 sources that haven't been updated?

Ability Focus: Poison (Savage Species) + Deadly Poison (Serpent Kingdoms) = one very toxic venom.

Serpent Kingdoms (especially Sarrukh special ability) should be handled with caution- maybe homebrew a list of the things it cannot do. Like grant divine ranks. Or boost stats past 50 points in any. Etc.

Keld Denar
2009-12-11, 05:04 AM
Adult Neogi are in Lords of Madness as well, page 90.

Curmudgeon
2009-12-11, 05:06 AM
Serpent Kingdoms (especially Sarrukh special ability) should be handled with caution
Not really a concern. Remember, we're operating mostly without magic. So no changing into a Sarrukh, summoning a Sarrukh, or whatever. And certainly no Sarrukh characters in the party.
Because they are extraordinarily powerful creatures, all sarrukh with class levels are automatically epic-level characters.

Adult Neogi are in Lords of Madness as well, page 90.
Ah, excellent find! Thanks very much! LA +3 and 5 racial HD is quite expensive, but at least it's possible to get a consistent poison attack.

hamishspence
2009-12-11, 05:13 AM
without any kind of shapechanging, that does close that particular problem off. (there was a feat in Savage Species that opened up access to extraordinary abilities of creatures you polymorph into)

While gamebreaking exploits without magic do exist, my guess is most players actually prefer to avoid them once discovered.

Myrmex
2009-12-11, 05:16 AM
Check out Bite of the Wolf, a 1st level psychic warrior power. It has the following wording:

"Your posture becomes stooped forward, and you grow a muzzle complete with fangs. You gain one bite attack each round, instead of or in addition to any other attacks you have, that deals 1d8 points of damage (assuming you are a Medium creature) when it hits."

That suggests, to me, that you could get an additional bite attack with a pre-existing mouth of poison fangs.

Though manifesting probably falls under "no-casting", huh?

Grumman
2009-12-11, 05:24 AM
That suggests, to me, that you could get an additional bite attack with a pre-existing mouth of poison fangs.
You are wrong. The limit is on the number of times you can use the poison, not on the number of times you can bite.

Myrmex
2009-12-11, 05:42 AM
You are wrong. The limit is on the number of times you can use the poison, not on the number of times you can bite.

What am I wrong about? That the second bite from bite of the wolf doesn't do poison damage?

Use Bite of the Wold to qualify for rapid strike & improved rapid strike.

Curmudgeon
2009-12-11, 05:48 AM
Check out Bite of the Wolf, a 1st level psychic warrior power.
...
Though manifesting probably falls under "no-casting", huh?
Yep. We're using magic-psionics transparency, so no spellcasters = no manifesters.

Grumman
2009-12-11, 05:57 AM
What am I wrong about? That the second bite from bite of the wolf doesn't do poison damage?
Yes. A thri-kreen can bite as many times as it likes each day, with or without Bite of the Wolf. That doesn't change the fact that it only produces enough venom for a single poison bite per day.

Myrmex
2009-12-11, 05:59 AM
Yes. A thri-kreen can bite as many times as it likes each day, with or without Bite of the Wolf. That doesn't change the fact that it only produces enough venom for a single poison bite per day.

That's a thri-kreen, though. What about a monster with no such limitations, like, say, an adult Neogi?

PinkysBrain
2009-12-11, 06:29 AM
I mentioned the Adult Neogi because it can apply it's poison to any weapon and it lasts for a minute ... so you don't even need Rapidstrike.