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unre9istered
2009-12-10, 09:59 PM
A friend of mine is looking for a long range sniper/assassin class. Currently the best option he's found is Order of the Bow Initiate. I'm sure there's something better but can't seem to find it. Any ideas?

Skeletor
2009-12-10, 09:59 PM
Order of the bow initiate is a trap.

erikun
2009-12-10, 10:08 PM
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0

Archery is generally bad in D&D, and there isn't really a class that makes it much better. On the plus side, you can take the Zen Archery feat and be a Cleric or Druid.

The Gilded Duke
2009-12-10, 10:23 PM
There is one class in Champions of Ruin.
I forget the name of it.
It gives you sneak attack damage without a range limit mentioned.
At level 10 it gives you ranged Death Attack.

You might have to be an elf for it though.

There are also a few spells, like "Sniper's Shot" that let you do precision damage past 30 feet.

Generally though, bows suck as there is no good way to get Stat to damage or power attack.

A Scout/Ranger build can do pretty well if you get the Swift Hunter feat and go almost all Ranger. You will be able to do precision damage to your favored enemies. (I usually pick undead and constructs) and you still get ranger spells and feats. Normally you have to stay within 30 feet which sucks, however the above mentioned Sniper's Shot can be used to let you skirmish from much farther away.

For Scout/Ranger builds I usually have a bunch of Sniper's Shots prepared, and then a wand of Sniper's Shot in a wand compartment inside the longbow in case I need more.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-12-10, 10:33 PM
A friend of mine is looking for a long range sniper/assassin class. Currently the best option he's found is Order of the Bow Initiate. I'm sure there's something better but can't seem to find it. Any ideas?

Well, Order of the Bow Initiate requires you to be fairly close to the target IIRC, which would not be very good for sniping. Cragtop Archer from RoS is designed for uber-long-range combat, so I might look there to start with if I were you.

Temotei
2009-12-10, 10:34 PM
Find a homebrew class. There's bound to be a few "sniper" classes on that board.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-10, 10:41 PM
Factotums make wonderful archers. They get any skill you could want (for finding your quarry and sneaking into a good sniping position), they get extra standard actions (for Manyshot), they get +Int and +Dex to ranged attack rolls and +Int and +Str to damage rolls for all of their Manyshotted arrows. Even better, they can do this from pretty much any range allowed by the bow they wield. They also get some spells to cast to make good their escape, as well as to add to any spell-storing arrows they have available to disable and/or kill their target.

Make him a kalashtar for access to a deep crystal bow, Aligned Attack (and a greater chasuble of fell power), Greater/Psionic Shot, and Fell Shot for extra damage and accuracy, all of which stack with the +Xd6 damage items out of the Magic Item Compendium.

Clerics technically make better archers, but then, they do EVERYTHING better than anybody but other tier 1s.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-12-10, 10:46 PM
Make him a kalashtar for access to a deep crystal bow, Aligned Attack (and a greater chasuble of fell power), Greater/Psionic Shot, and Fell Shot for extra damage and accuracy, all of which stack with the +Xd6 damage items out of the Magic Item Compendium.


But do you really have the feats to commit to both Manyshot and the Psionic Shot line? You're going to need enough feats left to pump into FoI if you want many standard actions.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-10, 10:54 PM
But do you really have the feats to commit to both Manyshot and the Psionic Shot line? You're going to need enough feats left to pump into FoI if you want many standard actions.Well, you have Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot, Fell Shot, and Aligned Attack. That's 7 feats. You have 2 more available if you get flaws.

You can dip into another class to get bonus feats if you want, since you really only need 8 levels of factotum for this (11 if you want to ignore DR and SR, which is recommended). I suggest either psychic warrior or martial rogue for this one. One grants you solid manifesting and solid feats (which should provide most of the psionic feats noted above), while the other grants solid archery feats and lots of skills and sneakery.

Mushroom Ninja
2009-12-10, 10:56 PM
You can dip into another class to get bonus feats if you want, since you really only need 8 levels of factotum for this (11 if you want to ignore DR and SR, which is recommended). I suggest either psychic warrior or martial rogue for this one. One grants you solid manifesting and solid feats, while the other grants solid feats and lots of skills and sneakery.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

unre9istered
2009-12-10, 11:07 PM
My friend is looking for a Rogue based sniping class where he can use sneak attack at long range. My group is, for the most part, completely unconcerned with optimization. I just thought there was something sniperish with a more roguish flavor.

Lycanthromancer
2009-12-10, 11:09 PM
My friend is looking for a Rogue based sniping class where he can use sneak attack at long range. My group is, for the most part, completely unconcerned with optimization. I just thought there was something sniperish with a more roguish flavor.As I said: factotum. They're more roguey than rogues are.

crazedloon
2009-12-10, 11:12 PM
well if you are interested in homebrew there is a sniper class in my sig I would love for someone to try out and give me some feedback on :smallbiggrin: /shameless self plug

ghashxx
2009-12-10, 11:19 PM
There's also cragtop archer. I'm going to try and find a thread on this same topic from a month or two ago. *edit* Actually just use the search forum thing, But for the first couple of pages here are five threads. "The Sniper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132400&highlight=sniper)", "Long range archer build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130406&highlight=sniper)", "thought excercise: ultimate sniper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129434&highlight=sniper)", "one shot, one kill (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125757&highlight=sniper)", and "ranged sniper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123841&highlight=sniper)".

unre9istered
2009-12-10, 11:22 PM
There's also craigtop archer. I'm going to try and find a thread on this same topic from a month or two ago.

Is this it? http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7359440

SurlySeraph
2009-12-10, 11:59 PM
There's the Sniper variant of the Scout base class. Instead of getting extra damage when it moves 10 feet or more in a round, it gets extra damage for spending a full-round action lining up one shot.

Gorilla2038
2009-12-11, 12:10 AM
Just have him remember one thing-+10 arrows only cost 4,000 gold, and at taht point returning is well worth the cost.

Crafty Cultist
2009-12-11, 12:16 AM
The cragtop archer from races of stone might fit

kemmotar
2009-12-11, 12:26 AM
well you could enchant ballista like arrows with shrink item...you could get a use activated continuous shrink item casting item for 15k...lasts about 5 days methinks...now think distance enchantment on the bow + manyshot...

item cost: spell level (3) * caster level (5) * 2000*1/2(since it's day/level)...

Not exactly sniping or assassin types, but it should be fun throwing around ballista sized arrows:smallbiggrin:

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-12-11, 01:26 AM
Raptoran Archivist/Contemplative 1 with Intuitive Attack(Wis to AB), Owl's Insight(.5 CL bonus to Wis), Dark Knowledge(Know Check for bonus damage), Knowledge Devotion(Know Check for bonus damage), Rapid Shot, Haste, Divine Power, Divine Favor, DMM, Polymorph(Arrow Demon, MMIII)a Footbow, and any number of other bonuses I'm forgetting. You can basically put holes through anything, and do it several times a round.

gorfnab
2009-12-11, 03:54 AM
There is one class in Champions of Ruin.
I forget the name of it.
It gives you sneak attack damage without a range limit mentioned.
At level 10 it gives you ranged Death Attack.


Justice of Weald and Woe - It's okay at best.

Leon
2009-12-11, 06:09 AM
If your not bound by fine details, Rifleman from the IKCG.
Its intended for used with firearms but could be tweaked to suit crossbows easily enough.

Amphetryon
2009-12-11, 08:14 AM
There is one class in Champions of Ruin.
I forget the name of it.
It gives you sneak attack damage without a range limit mentioned.
At level 10 it gives you ranged Death Attack.

You might have to be an elf for it though.
It's Justice of Weald and Woe, Champions of Ruin p48. Entry requirements are potentially harsh (scroll down to see) (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/prc.htm), for relatively limited return, although you do get some spells. The sneak attack damage is listed as "as the sneak attack ability of rogues", so your DM might say the rogue's range limit on SA is already accounted for; you can always ask.

dsmiles
2009-12-11, 08:24 AM
Also, in Pale Masters: A Poisoner's Handbook by Green Ronin, there is a sniper class.
There is also the Deepwood Sniper (3e splatbook, don't know if it made the cut for 3.5e).

PinkysBrain
2009-12-11, 08:25 AM
Any archer who can use Hunter's Mercy is a decent sniper.

Tokiko Mima
2009-12-11, 08:27 AM
I generally like warlocks for snipers. Usually I don't take Eldritch Spear as an invocation, instead saving that for a Least Rod of Eldritch Power, as I rarely plan on more than a handful of sniping shots in a day.

While you don't get as much range as a bow would give you (375' is as far as I think you can expand your range to), the combination of easy access to invisibility, ranged touch attack, and energy damage that's not one of the five main types means it's difficult or impossible to avoid an attack by a sniper warlock. If you take Empower SLA and Maximize SLA as feats, you can pack a lot of punch into a few hits. After all, a sniper works best when they deliver one shot skills.