Doesn't Roy seem remarkably uncurious about V?

[Turkish Delight]

I mean, I know that sorcerer who was shackled to V had a good Bluff skill and claimed they were...sub-contractors or something, but you'd think that at some point Roy would work up enough curiosity on the subject to ask, "So, what was that whole deal with you in the black robes and fangs effortlessly casting Epic spells while having a couple of strange souls shackled to you about?"

Right now, the responses of the rest of the Order to even what little they know of the whole Evil V Arc seems kind of...Idiot Ball-ish. They must certainly know something very major went down for V to suddenly develop the gigantic titantium indeterminate gender organs necessary to try and just pop in and waste Xykon and his entire gang single-handed.

[Prime32]

They probably feel it's a touchy subject... and don't want V to fireball them for asking.

[Setra]

I figure Roy and Haley are waiting for V to be ready to talk about it, Durkon I see thinking that it doesn't matter now, Elan I bet is oblivious, and Belkar just not caring.

[Ancalagon]

Roy apparently does not want to know about "things that could cause problems".

Look how he reacted to the poor Deva who wanted to tell him "something" right before he left Celestia. He's not so stupid not to get this was not about Belkar.

But even in the case of Belkar he does not mind he is evil. Roy wants to get the job done and the people he is currently with do exactly that. As long as they do that, even Belkar is an asset.
See no evil, hear no evil, I'd say. Questionable attitude? Maybe.

Why no one of the other members seems to mind is a bigger issue to me.
* Belkar knows for sure what is going on (V being/having been evil), but he's surely not the candidate to mind/comment.
* Haley might be glad that she has a friend back and she's morally shady in some regards herself (no matter being good, she's still a loner and a thief).
* Elan would not have noticed anything being wrong.

That leaves Durkon. HE really should mind, but apparently, as his apology-speech to Vaarsuvius indicates, really, REALLY botched his wisdom- and int-rolls about what was going on with Vaarsuvius.

[Kaytara]

I agree that for such a presumably genre-savvy party, they're acting pretty strange. Of course, it would make sense that at first, they'd bee too relieved to be together again and too busy making preparations to defeat Xykon and everything. But now that they've been settling in, they should really be starting to get questions.

One could think that they'd be sure that they wouldn't get a straight answer out of Vaarsuvius, anyway. But we haven't seen them even consider the issue. For example, when Roy and Haley met back then, they didn't discuss V's strange appearance OR his obvious lapse of judgement in flying off to fight Xykon alone.

I hope the issue is addressed soon, one way or another.

[Haven]

That leaves Durkon. HE really should mind, but apparently, as his apology-speech to Vaarsuvius indicates, really, REALLY botched his wisdom- and int-rolls about what was going on with Vaarsuvius.

He should mind, but he doesn't get to do anything in this comic ~.~

Anyway, sometimes I find it really hard to believe Roy has a "halfway decent" Wisdom score. But maybe they noticed he's trying to be more pleasant to be around, and don't want to rock the boat.

[factotum]

We know Roy has a good Wisdom score because he was considered the tastiest morsel by the mind flayer squid thingy. Given that V would have high Int and Durkon high Wis, presumably the brain-eating monstrosity must have decided Roy had a high quotient of both to be considered a better meal.

Anyway, I don't believe that Roy *did* know the Deva wanted to discuss someone other than Belkar, and as he said, he was on kind of a clock--the Resurrection was due to finish shortly, and you can't just hang around for a few minutes after the spell finishes before deciding to accept the summons! If anything, the Powers that Be in Celestia messed up by not sending the warning earlier--like, the instant V accepted the splice!

[theinsulabot]

even roy's human. at the same time that was going on he was finally on the cusp of being resurrected. its entirely possible in the heat of everything it just slipped his mind. and even if it hadn't, he has since had no cause for real alarm. v brought back an important source of information, has been more humble and thoughtful since his return, and probably considerably easier to be around. its possible he just decided whatever problems v had been having, he had worked them out form himself and been better for it

[Optimystik]

He should mind, but he doesn't get to do anything in this comic ~.~

Pretty much, yeah.


They probably feel it's a touchy subject... and don't want V to fireball them for asking.

They sure didn't seem worried about his disposition when they were all mocking him for his belief in an illusory bird.

[Acero]

Roy has got bigger fish to fry. (Girard)

there will probabley be some desert camfire where Roy finnaly has the chance to ask, but is interruted by Elan's campfire song

[Turkish Delight]

Anyway, I don't believe that Roy *did* know the Deva wanted to discuss someone other than Belkar, and as he said, he was on kind of a clock--the Resurrection was due to finish shortly, and you can't just hang around for a few minutes after the spell finishes before deciding to accept the summons! If anything, the Powers that Be in Celestia messed up by not sending the warning earlier--like, the instant V accepted the splice!

Really, the Deva shouldn't have done much more than confirm for Roy that something was waaayyy off with V. V quadrupled his power in a very brief time to such an extent that he was confident of taking out Xykon and his minions personally, was dressed in solid black and had menacing black-and-pink speech balloons...and fangs. He was popping off Epic spells as if they were Magic Missile, and of course he had two souls chained to him that Roy personally knows about.

After the initial rush of being alive again, if I were in Roy's shoes...or any of the party's shoes except Elan (too stupid) and Belkar (doesn't care)...I would have questions. Many, many questions. And I can't imagine something like that being so unimportant that it could possibly be thrown on the back-burner for this long.

[Carnivorous_Bea]

After the initial rush of being alive again, if I were in Roy's shoes...or any of the party's shoes except Elan (too stupid) and Belkar (doesn't care)...I would have questions. Many, many questions. And I can't imagine something like that being so unimportant that it could possibly be thrown on the back-burner for this long.

But then we would have to endure another 20 or 30 strips of V angst and wrangling. :smallyuk:

At this point, we got character development for V, and two interesting story possibilities out of the world within the rift and Blackwing respectively. I'd say it's time to pretty much move on rather than rehash everything again .... and again .... and again with a bunch of other characters, and then have everything move on in the way it is, just with a lot of re-exposition in between. No thanks.

Anyway, V did do several worthy things while he was under the influence, so to speak -- he got the Azurites a new home, and he killed the black dragon and saved his mate. And he got some perspective, albeit the hard way. So I, for one, am not sorry to see the elf be given a break for a few strips.

[BRC]

Roy only has faint memories of his time in the afterlife. He remembers seeing his family, and he has an idea for a new swordsmanship technique (The one his grandfather taught him), but everything else is very fuzzy.

[Kish]

That's his time in the actual afterlife. Not his time on the cloud, or on Earth as a ghost.

[Haven]

After the initial rush of being alive again, if I were in Roy's shoes...or any of the party's shoes except Elan (too stupid) and Belkar (doesn't care)...


shoes


Belkar

Wait, what?

[Turkish Delight]

But then we would have to endure another 20 or 30 strips of V angst and wrangling. :smallyuk:

At this point, we got character development for V, and two interesting story possibilities out of the world within the rift and Blackwing respectively. I'd say it's time to pretty much move on rather than rehash everything again .... and again .... and again with a bunch of other characters, and then have everything move on in the way it is, just with a lot of re-exposition in between. No thanks.

Yeah, I've thought of how tiresome it would get. In this case, it's seem to be a choice between the Giant giving a sudden catastrophic drop in the Wisdom score department for everyone else in the party...or else dragging the comic to a screeching halt for the sake of further angsting over a now finished storyline, in doing so insuring that whatever Evilllll fruits the Fiends have planted are less likely to catch the party off-guard and create drama in the future.

So I guess just pick a handwave for their behavior and go with it for the sake of a more entertaining story.

[Kaytara]

It doesn't have to be a stand-off between V!Angst and an Idiot Ball for the rest of the party, though. It's just that this issue isn't addressed at all. It doesn't have to be V!Angst, either.

:roy: So, V... What was the whole deal with you suddenly gaining awesome powers and a new look?
:vaarsuvius: Sir Greenhilt, I do not wish to discuss it. It is not something that can have an impact on our mission*, making it a private matter and thus something you have no right to pry into. I would appreciate it if you were to desist from attempts at intruding into my privacy in the future.
:roy: Woah, that's okay! I'll take your word for it, sheesh.

*Mind you, as far as V knows, anyway. The whole after-death-only thing.

Something as simple as that would have addressed the issue for the time being without making the entire Order look like incompetent idiots with ADD.

...Of course, it bears mentioning that despite occasional bouts of funcionatliy, so far in the story the Order DID act like incompetent idiots with ADD. :smalltongue:

[Optimystik]

:roy: So, V... What was the whole deal with you suddenly gaining awesome powers and a new look?
:vaarsuvius: Sir Greenhilt, I do not wish to discuss it. It is not something that can have an impact on our mission*, making it a private matter and thus something you have no right to pry into. I would appreciate it if you were to desist from attempts at intruding into my privacy in the future.
:roy: Woah, that's okay! I'll take your word for it, sheesh.

I'd picture V being a bit more chagrined and closemouthed than defensive in that exchange. Anyway, the point is moot now - with Girard (or at least his answering machine) right in front of them, there's no chance that they'll be worrying about V anymore.

Maybe they'll mention it in a bonus strip...

[The Extinguisher]

Or maybe it was off-panel?

I mean, it's not like it would be all the exciting really.

[mofabulous]

Bonus comics for the next book.

Or it could just be irrelevant. They have all changed a great deal since they split up and Haley, Elan, Belkar all have their own issues to deal with ( Haley just killed her arch rival, Elan is still sad over Therklas death, Belkar is focused on "playing the game" ) .

Durkon wasn't around Evil V for more than what 5 minutes ? V teleported the party to the island and left seconds later to fight Xykon. Durkon was focused on rez'ing Roy at the time as well.

My vote is that no one really cared. When V returned he not only rescued O'Chul and gave them valuable intelligence on Team Evil also V was no longer Darth Varsuvius anymore. Why dwell on the past...

[Caleniel]

Or maybe it was off-panel?

I mean, it's not like it would be all the exciting really.

Extinguisher, I really, really love the quote in your sig. I would like to use it, please! It is yourself you are quoting?

[Turkish Delight]

Or maybe it was off-panel?

I mean, it's not like it would be all the exciting really.

I'm pretty sure the news their teammate commited genocide familicide and has his soul in debt to fiends, and the accompanying reaction of the primarily Good-aligned party s/he's travelling with to that little tidbit of info, is something big enough to warrant being shown in-comic.

[Zea mays]

Or maybe it was off-panel?

I mean, it's not like it would be all the exciting really.

In between the pages, right before Roy said the word "gate"? :smallsmile:

[Harr]

Just because Roy's wisdom is higher than the rest of the OOTS doesn't mean it's actually high. All the OOTS, indeed pretty much all the characters in the comic aside from maybe the Oracle and O-Chul, have remarkably low wisdom scores.

In the OOTS's case it could easily be that Roy's and Durkon's wisdom scores are at 10 and it just goes downhill from there.



Extinguisher, I really, really love the quote in your sig. I would like to use it, please! It is yourself you are quoting?

It's from an xkcd shirt: http://store.xkcd.com/reddit/

Personally I like "If you watch The Karate Kid backwards, it's about this karate champ who slowly becomes a ***** and ends up moving back to Jersey."

[Eloel]

All the OOTS, indeed pretty much all the characters in the comic aside from maybe the Oracle and O-Chul, have remarkably low wisdom scores.


I'm hoping you're not serious. Redcloak & Durkon have a 'minimum' of 17 wisdom, for 7th level spells. Likely higher. Alot higher.


Edit:

Class & Level Geekery says Redcloak's Wisdom is 20+, Tsukiko is 15+, Durkon is 17+. Low? :smallsigh:

[Querzis]

I agree with mofabulous, no one really care and I dont see why they would either. Not only do they have bigger things to worry about but they never saw V doing anything especially evil really. Quite the opposite, they know he teleported the azurites to their new homes, he greatly helped them in rezzing Roy and he tried to destroy Xykon (sure he failed but he saved O-chul while he was doing it). As long as they dont know about familicide, I really dont see why they would care. V said he cant do it again because the price is too high which is more then enough for most of them.

And by the way, Belkar was messing with V when he said :«welcome to the dark side». I really doubt he said it for any other reason then to piss of V, he cant smell evil or anything.

[hamishspence]

But's he's pretty genre-savvy- this may account for it.

Fangs, eyes, robes- I suspect Belkar has at least a rough idea of how V got them.

[Harr]

Class & Level Geekery says Redcloak's Wisdom is 20+, Tsukiko is 15+, Durkon is 17+. Low? :smallsigh:

Redcloak and Tsukiko I obviously wasn't thinking about (yes even when one says "everyone in the comic" that still doesn't mean they are holding up a literal list of literally everyone in the comic... it's called a generalization, they are included in the "maybe").

As for Durkon, guess I was wrong then... that is quite a misrepresentation in the comic. Why the heck doesn't Durkon figure out something's wrong?

The answer is "Plot", probably :smallwink: Characters are as dumb/foolish as the story needs them to be.

Edit -> I'm guessing that Durkon's admitting how wrong he was and telling V what a great job he did, and that he could publicly recognize that, is supposed to count as very "wise"... Thing is wisdom and foolishness are subjective... you can say that he's very wise for doing that as easily as you can say that he's foolish for not cottoning on to what was really going on.

Regardless, I think the comic has made it crystal clear by now that "wisdom as far as spellcasting" and "wisdom as far as how I actually act" are two completely different and separate things, however much that might distress the geekery people.

[Katana_Geldar]

I hardly think that something like this is either off panel or a bonus comic in the next book, given that the bonus comics in the books are usually about extras and not major plot inducing strips. Nice of Rich to do that for people who don't have the books. It's kinda like the director's cut, so to speak, not radically changed but a bit longer and with more stuff that the studio wouldn't let the director leave in. :smallwink:

Roy's been dead for three months, its understandable he wants to actually do things for a change, and I doubt his Dad will let him on to it anytime soon given that he's the only one, aside from V him/herself that knows the whole story.

[Sir_Elderberry]

I imagine V took Durkon's "high xp cost" explanation and ran with it. Maybe told them it was a powerful spell but not something to be repeated.

[TriForce]

im thinking that the people with a good enough wisdom score to figure out something is off with v ( durkon and roy) arent asking hir for exactly that same reason. durkon had a good talk with v and if anything, that talk confirmed v is still one of the good guys and absolutly didnt go insane, he might even have faked the apology just to have a excuse to give some advice to hir. as for roy, im just guessing he trusts v's judgement and if there really is something that will hinder the mission, v will tell him. and since v thinks?knows? that the payment will be after hir death, there is nothing roy should worry about in hir mind

[KageSama]

Also, didn't Roy mention that he doesn't remember everything about his time while he was dead? He may simply not remember the "sub-contractors" at this time, but will when it's important to the plot.

[Kish]

Regardless, I think the comic has made it crystal clear by now that "wisdom as far as spellcasting" and "wisdom as far as how I actually act" are two completely different and separate things, however much that might distress the geekery people.
Really? So Elan having a Wisdom so low Roy said he wouldn't be unable to cast any cleric spells has nothing to do with his personality?

In anything based on D&D, it's absolutely necessary for it to be possible to have high Wisdom and hold multiple different philosophies, including ones compatible with each of the nine alignments. Durkon and Redcloak acting without wisdom is very much a matter of opinion. The comic has made it possible to hold the opinion that every priestly character acts in a manner indicative of low Wisdom; the comic has not made it "crystal clear" that any do.

[Querzis]

But's he's pretty genre-savvy- this may account for it.

Fangs, eyes, robes- I suspect Belkar has at least a rough idea of how V got them.

If he was really genre savvy he would know that most things that look like vampire, dress in black and look androgynous are just angsty good guys these days.

[Asta Kask]

Perhaps Roy has so high Wisdom that he knows that this is something V needs to work out on his own? Asking V may just prompt him to retreat behind the "magic-is-all-powerful-especially-my-magic" wall of security again?

[Zanaril]

But's he's pretty genre-savvy- this may account for it.

Fangs, eyes, robes- I suspect Belkar has at least a rough idea of how V got them.

:belkar: Hey I think V's finally a teenager!

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I'm pretty sure the news their teammate commited genocide familicide and has his soul in debt to fiends, and the accompanying reaction of the primarily Good-aligned party s/he's travelling with to that little tidbit of info, is something big enough to warrant being shown in-comic.
Where in, “It’s private, Sir Greenhilt. Please don’t ask anymore,” would anyone hear, “I sold my soul to fiends and slaughtered a quarter of all black dragons in the world?”

[Sstoopidtallkid]

They're RPing. (http://www.shawntionary.com/chainmailbikini/?p=71). Willful blindness in order to preserve alignment is basic, and calling your allies on their actions is not.

[Turkish Delight]

“It’s private, Sir Greenhilt. Please don’t ask anymore,”

It doesn't matter how he answers it. If he evades the question, it's also worth showing in-comic, because it means we'll know Roy is aware V is actively hiding something. The rest of the order's knowledge of what happened is simply not something that can be blown off as interaction between comics, no matter which way you like to cut it.

[Nerdanel]

I think Roy believes that V used some sort of summoning spell with really hideously expensive material and XP components. The cost explains why it's so powerful and why V doesn't want to cast it again, or might not even be able to afford it if he wanted to.

The bluff worked well and was convincing, and so Roy has no reason to question it.

[SPoD]

We see V dodging the question with both Haley and Durkon, and Roy's question being dodged mid-splice by the evil souls. Is it really necessary to show V answering questions by each and every character in the strip? The answer is, "V dodged any questions that came up, claiming that it was simply a really powerful spell that had the unintentional effect of changing his/her appearance, and everyone bought it." It doesn't need to be shown 12 times for it to be true, and people with important missions to fulfill generally don't spend a lot of time nitpicking events in the past that, to their knowledge, had no negative repercussions.

Remember, no one in the party has Sense Motive worth a damn except Haley, and we specifically see her blowing her check with regards to V's appearance.