View Full Version : Twin broadswords

2009-12-12, 03:22 AM
I'm trying to put together stats for Twin Broadswords (Shuang Dao). Michelle Yeoh uses a pair of them in Crouching Tiger ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OxQ-2gR1DU&feature=related ).

Basically they are a matched pair of short swords / scimitars (kukri?) that are designed to be dual wielded (one in each hand) or put together and wielded in one hand. They are usually made without a guard (or the guards are made to fit together) and narrow hilts so they can be placed side by side and held in one hand combortably. Many of them are made with a single scabbard to share.

One broadsword may be wielded as a light martial weapon. Two broadswords may be used for two weapon fighting as light martial weapons.
Twin Broadsword, 1d6 damage, 18-20x2 crit, 2 lbs., Piercing and Slashing

Or, two broadswords may be fitted together and wielded as a single exotic one handed weapon.
Twin Broadsword, 2d4 damage, 18-20x2 crit, 4 lbs., Piercing and Slashing

Perhaps a reduction in TWF penalties (-1 instead of -2) since they are designed to be used in pairs? Possibly reducing damage by one die to make up for it? Perhaps adding a bonus to feint? They usually have flags attached to the handles (it's supposed to distract the opponent and make the weapon harder to follow).

The only really abusive thing I can come up with off the top of my head is that using a pair of these as a single weapon would allow you to stack the non-enhancement bonuses of the two weapons together (similar to a magic bow with magic ammunition).

2009-12-12, 03:59 AM
I don't really think this is abusive as a double weapon. Enchantments on double weapons are expressly and explicitly ruled to only work with one half of the weapon. Thus, if you have a +1 frost scimitar and a +1 flaming scimitar, you only have a +1 frost/+1 flaming double scimitar and not a +2 frost flaming double scimitar with the enchantment working for both blades.

Double weapons are typically bad ideas one step worse than TWF, because you need the TWF feat to actually pull it off. Double weapons pile on an Exotic Weapon Proficiency requirement on top of those.

Btw, there IS a double scimitar weapon in the Eberron Campaign Setting. The Valenar elves use it and it counts as a martial weapon for them.

2009-12-12, 04:30 AM
You misunderstand, the OP is talking about a pair of seperate swords that are designed to be complementary to each other. When they're fitted together the blades have their flats pressed together, not one blade at each end.

2009-12-12, 04:47 AM
Thanks kelb, I don't think I explained that very well.

Yes, the blades are pressed together flat to flat. When wielded this way, they would almost seem to be a single weapon especially to a casual observer.

The first time I saw them used in a movie, I thought it was bad editting when they switched from one sword to two.

Any thoughts...? Balanced? Cheese? Bantha Poodoo?

2009-12-12, 05:09 AM
You could check out the Avatar D20 project, I'm pretty sure they statted those up- they're one of the weapons often seen used by Prince Zuko from Avatar: the Last Airbender.

Edit- here. Second to last thing on the page. http://sites.google.com/site/avatard20/weapons

2009-12-12, 05:38 AM
Ah, I see then. I'm pretty sure such weapons have been statted out in many different places.

Anyway, it would still require both TWF and EWP if you want to use the weapon to its fullest potential. The weapon to beat for Exotic Weapon cheese is the Spiked Chain.

Now about enhancement stacking, I propose the following:
1. The enhancement bonus doesn't stack. If one of the swords has a higher enhancement bonus, it uses the higher one.

2. Weapon properties do end up applying to the same weapon. After all, the character did pay for both of them.

2009-12-12, 05:45 AM
Something like this? (http://www.chinatown-shop.com/Traditional-Double-Broadsword-Northern-Style-Upper-Range-pi-335.html) In D&D 3.5e, this would be mechanically similar to a longsword or scimitar. A short sword is too small, and a kukri is basically a long knife.

You would probably need Exotic Weapon Proficiency in order to use them together properly; wielding a sword that can slip apart would be rather difficult. Damage for such a weapon is likely the same as a base longsword/scimitar. The advantage is being able to freely switch between TWF and 1HF, possibly in the middle of a full attack.

Enchanting the swords seperately would probably allow you to use all the abilities of the combined swords, although like properities would not "double up". For example, a +3 flaming sword matched with a +2 flaming burst sword would result in a +3 flaming burst sword, not a +5 flaming flaming burst. Given that you're spending a feat for what is equal to a longsword, and that you're spending twice the gold to enchant them both, I don't find it particularly overpowered.

Tetsubo 57
2009-12-12, 06:04 AM
Technically what you are describing is a 'butterfly knife'. The balisong is often called a butterfly knife erroneously. Putting two blades into the same sheath is a good way to fool an opponent into believing that you carry only a single weapon.

2009-12-12, 06:09 AM
Are you referring to the Butterfly Sword (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_sword) by chance? Because while they may work on the same principle, I doubt you'll be mistaking one for the other. (http://www.kenpokungfu.com/butterfly-sword.jpg) (Compare to the video in the original post.)

2009-12-12, 06:19 AM
Thanks for the link to the Avatard20 project, Wierdlet. It's pretty much what I had worked out but a little more powerful (larger damage die, full strength when TWF).

I was trying to come up with a weapon that would be useful either way. You could take the TWF and use it as a paired weapon, or the EWP and use it as a single blade (or take both and switch back and forth).

Good picture Erikun. That's exactly what I was talking about. I felt they were a little lighter than a scimitar, but not as light as a kukri.

Enhancement bonuses wouldn't stack of course. Worst case would be 2 +1 weapons with +9 worth of addons each + GMW for a (+5 + +18) +23 equivelant weapon. A normal weapon would be +13 max (pre epic of course). But, that's a but load of gold so, meh...

I think I'll go with the lower damage die (1d4 light, 1d6 one handed), add in the reduced TWF penalty, and the Feint bonus. I think I'll leave out the full strength for the off hand weapon.

Thanks for the replies and links.

2009-12-12, 06:53 AM
Their abilities shouldn't stack at all.
Making one of them +1 Sword of 4 abilities, and other +1 Sword of 5 abilities costs 122k. Making a +1 Sword of 9 abilities costs 200k.
Feel the difference?

2009-12-12, 08:48 AM
Their abilities shouldn't stack at all.
Making one of them +1 Sword of 4 abilities, and other +1 Sword of 5 abilities costs 122k. Making a +1 Sword of 9 abilities costs 200k.
Feel the difference?

The problem is, you're hitting with both simultaneously. Saying one mysteriously stops working seems a bit suspect.

2009-12-12, 02:10 PM
Kind of like how a +1 bow of good stuff stacks with +1 arrows of bling. :)

And if you want to buy that way overpriced quiver, you don't even run out of arrows (of bling).

Anyways, thanks again. My wife is enjoying her TWF Daring Outlaw // Warblade. She'll probably end up using Ancestral Relic on her swords. She had been using a pair of Elven Thinblades. We're thinking about calling them Elven Twinblades (She does like Legolas).