Quick Draw it's a normal thing

[Animato]

Unsheat your trusted weapon in the core rules can be done while you move (take a move action, actually) if you have at least a +1 BaB.
This, in developers minds, reflect the fact that any minimally skilled fighter (+1 bab is being able to swing a sword properly) can unsheat his sword while approaching the enemy without tripping himself.

So why do the same thing more swiftly takes a feat? It's not so exceptional.
Perhaps someone that can walk 30 ft. and stab his opponent one time in 6 seconds can't do it, but if he's so skilled in combat that can also make a second attack it's enough.

So I house rule that anyone that has a +6 or better bab can ready his weapon as a free action, as the feat.

Any thoughts?

[erikun]

Makes sense, except for people who take the (now useless) feat once they hit +6 BAB. Removing the feat from the game prevents TWF characters from drawing their weapons and using them both in the same turn.

[Silverscale]

Makes sense, except for people who take the (now useless) feat once they hit +6 BAB. Removing the feat from the game prevents TWF characters from drawing their weapons and using them both in the same turn.

Unless of course, you apply the same house rule to TWF

[Surgo]

If you have 1 rank in sleight of hand you can already draw a weapon as a free action, so this house rule is quite fine.

[Krazddndfreek]

The only problem with that would be for things that require quick draw, like prestige classes. It's a useless feat, but it can be used to get some nice things. I'd suggest powering up the feat rather than removing it. Like gives you +2 inititiative, or something. It would definitely be an incentive for characters who want to have as much initiative as they can. Or you can make it similar to Fax's Flick of the Wrist feat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132675), but it might not be a good idea to let it scale. Or you could give it both, but then you'd have to up the prereqs or something.

And I'm pretty sure the sleight of hand thing is only for light melee weapons.

[Frog Dragon]

If you have 1 rank in sleight of hand you can already draw a weapon as a free action, so this house rule is quite fine.
Where is this rule? Just checked both Drawing and Sheathing a weapon and Sleight of Hand skill description from the PHB. Didn't find a mention of that

[Surgo]

Where is this rule? Just checked both Drawing and Sheathing a weapon and Sleight of Hand skill description from the PHB. Didn't find a mention of that

"Any Sleight of Hand check normally is a standard action. However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a -20 penalty on the check."

You're going to get spotted if you only have 1 rank, but that's not the point -- the point is you drew your weapon as a free action.


And I'm pretty sure the sleight of hand thing is only for light melee weapons.
It's a DC 50 check to lift a larger weapon from another person and hide it on yourself, so you can just do that. Again, doesn't matter if you fail the check because it only means you were spotted, not that you weren't successful.

[erikun]

Actually, the DC 20 Sleight Of Hand check for lifting a small object (and the DC 50 for lifting a large object) is the check to see if you got the item. The opposed roll is to see if you were spotted in the attempt.

Drawing a weapon does not seem to be part of the Sleight Of Hand skill; there is no set DC.

[ericgrau]

I think Surgo's suggestions only grant quick draw to the DM in regard to any handy throwable object.

[Animato]

The only problem with that would be for things that require quick draw, like prestige classes. It's a useless feat, but it can be used to get some nice things. I'd suggest powering up the feat rather than removing it. Like gives you +2 inititiative, or something. It would definitely be an incentive for characters who want to have as much initiative as they can. Or you can make it similar to Fax's Flick of the Wrist feat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132675), but it might not be a good idea to let it scale. Or you could give it both, but then you'd have to up the prereqs or something.

And I'm pretty sure the sleight of hand thing is only for light melee weapons.

For prerequisites I think it can suffice to replace them with the +6 bab.
It's a little advantage since taking PrC levels is usually done after hitting +6 bab, but I'm fine with it.
If it's a pre-req. for some feats (I don't remember) the same applies, I'm not going to cry if my players can avoid to waste a feat in something that they don't actually want to pay so much.

For the Sleight of Hand I don't know and don't care because it's unlikely to come up in my games, knowing the players. But it can matter in yours, perhaps there's a way to use skill to perform this kind of mundane actions... mumble...

Thank you all for your help :smallsmile:

[Rithaniel]

Actually, the DC 20 Sleight Of Hand check for lifting a small object (and the DC 50 for lifting a large object) is the check to see if you got the item. The opposed roll is to see if you were spotted in the attempt.

Drawing a weapon does not seem to be part of the Sleight Of Hand skill; there is no set DC.

Well, the problem with that is that you are attempting this as a free action, and there is no limit saying that you cannot attempt this particular free action multiple times per round, so, you can do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again until you roll a natural twenty, making it so that it doesn't matter if you get it the first time or not. :smalltongue:

So yeah, this variant doesn't have too much 'OMG' in it, I like it. Though, for the stuff that has Quick Draw as a prerequisite, I'd just say replace that particular prerequisite with (BAB +6), or, if the thing already has a BAB requirement, then just waive the Quick Draw requirement, I mean, the feat bites, in all honesty.

[Narmy]

What about being able to don shields as a swift action?
BaB +4?, +6?, +8?

[erikun]

What about being able to don shields as a swift action?
BaB +4?, +6?, +8?
I would assume it's the same as drawing a weapon, just as readying a shield is a free action combined with a move when you have +1 BAB (just as a weapon).


Well, the problem with that is that you are attempting this as a free action, and there is no limit saying that you cannot attempt this particular free action multiple times per round, so, you can do it over and over and over and over...
Well, even beyond the DM stopping you from attempting to steal 20 times, remember that skill checks do not automatically succeed on a natural 20. You're taking a -20 penality to steal as a free action, so unless you have 20+ ranks or 60 Dex, you won't be stealing anything. You'll need 50+ ranks or over 110 Dex to steal a weapon as a free action.

[Slayn82]

Well, and what about us guys that like to have poisoned weapons for melee ? (please dont suggest simply using a bow)

Or when you want to trown multiple poisoned daggers and flasks of alchemist fire around, in the same turn?

Or when you killed an enemy in melee during the start of a full attack, and wants to draw a spear to pierce someone around? Or when you are fighting an skeleton and a zombie? (use mace then longsword)

Or when an enemy disarms you thanks to truestrike allowing his ally to start a grapple? Do AoO with a spiked glove, instead of my greataxe?

I want to draw my weapons in all those cases, instantly even if its not my turn yet, thank you very much. Just leave the feat be.

[Animato]

Or when you killed an enemy in melee during the start of a full attack, and wants to draw a spear to pierce someone around? Or when you are fighting an skeleton and a zombie? (use mace then longsword)

Or when an enemy disarms you thanks to truestrike allowing his ally to start a grapple? Do AoO with a spiked glove, instead of my greataxe?

I want to draw my weapons in all those cases, instantly even if its not my turn yet, thank you very much. Just leave the feat be.

Noted. Anyway my players don't even try to do these things: they know I don't allow them to play so videogame-like.
Poisons, throwing weapons and alchemic weaponry have never happened so far, if they do I'll simply use the rules as they are and anyone that have +6 bab or more is considered pretty much as having quick draw so...

Obviously for shields and anything that works as weapons to ready the rule applies. Simple :smallsmile:

[Knaight]

Poisoned melee weapons are videogame like now? Along with multiple thrown weapons? You might have a point with swapping out the spear, but even that is quite probably doable? Even the mace and sword bit is doable, thanks to a nice little viking invention called a wrist strap. Which works a lot better than one would expect. Of course, it would be more realistic to have a mace in one hand and a long sword in another, and just to use one for parrying at any given time, but for some inexplicable reason weapons don't affect AC in D&D.

[lesser_minion]

"Any Sleight of Hand check normally is a standard action. However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a -20 penalty on the check."

That can only be done with a light weapon. Otherwise, it could be seen as cheesy, but I'd allow it. Mistake or not, I actually quite like it.


It's a DC 50 check to lift a larger weapon from another person and hide it on yourself, so you can just do that. Again, doesn't matter if you fail the check because it only means you were spotted, not that you weren't successful.

Wrong. If you fail the DC 50 check, or the DC 20 check, you don't get the item, whether you were spotted or not - the target makes a spot check to notice the attempt.

As for the spiked gauntlet, no action is needed to start using it after losing any other weapon you were holding in the same hand. You're free to punch the grappler in the face with it.

[Slayn82]

As for the spiked gauntlet, no action is needed to start using it after losing any other weapon you were holding in the same hand. You're free to punch the grappler in the face with it.

Yes, i know, but it simply does not pack quite a punch like a great axe in the other guy's face. Also, when you have a pair of weapons of spellstoring with dispel magic, or a staff of dispeling magic, quick draw is a must.

[Roderick_BR]

The only problem with that would be for things that require quick draw, like prestige classes. It's a useless feat, but it can be used to get some nice things. I'd suggest powering up the feat rather than removing it. Like gives you +2 inititiative, or something. It would definitely be an incentive for characters who want to have as much initiative as they can. Or you can make it similar to Fax's Flick of the Wrist feat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132675), but it might not be a good idea to let it scale. Or you could give it both, but then you'd have to up the prereqs or something.

And I'm pretty sure the sleight of hand thing is only for light melee weapons.
I'd do further, and mix Improved Initiative and Quick Draw into one feat, like they did Two Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity.