Confused by graphics cards

[Dhavaer]

Currently I have a ATI Radeon HD 3450. According to the Performance Information and Tools details, it's giving me 256 MB of dedicated graphics memory. According the this review site (http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Review/114358,ati-radeon-hd-3450,specs.aspx), the memory size (same thing? I assume so) is 512MB. ATI's website (http://ati.amd.com/products/mobilityradeonhd3400/specs.html) says it has a 64-bit memory interface, which I assume is something completely different.

I'm wanting to get a new card so I can play Fallout 3 on better than minimum settings, because I'm tired of the game saying "oh, by the way, there's 3 radscorpions 10 feet in front of you. Sorry, forgot to render them before." According to the Fallout wiki (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_(PC)#System_requirements), Fallout 3 wants a 512 MB graphics card, so I assume the review site got it wrong. Against according to the wiki, it wants something like a 3800 series (http://ati.amd.com/products/Radeonhd3800/specs.html), which again doesn't have memory specified on ATI's site.

If it helps, the Windows Experience Index is rating my gaming graphics at 4.0, says Fallout 3 needs 4.3 and wants 4.8, and my CPU and RAM are 5.6 and 5.9.

Could someone give me a quick rundown on graphics cards, and possibly a recommendation?

[Erloas]

Well, video RAM on your graphics card is one of the least important aspects of all of the specifications on them.

For the most part video RAM has an impact at high resolutions, and if you are using AA. Although even in those cases it mostly comes down to how much the GPU can process at a time. VRAM only really makes a difference if you have enough GPU power to render the frames and the VRAM gives it enough space to work with.


You will have a hard time finding a decent video card with less then 512MB of VRAM, and you won't really need more then that unless you are looking at higher resolutions or AA.

What is limiting your card is the fact that its a 34xx series card, not the amount of VRAM, it just doesn't have the processing power it needs.

If you can give us some idea of what you have to spend then we can recommend a specific card. There are a fair number of very good cards in the $100 or less range, and up to $150 gives you a lot of options too. There might be some decent options in the sub $60ish range if you are limited that much.

[Trixie]

Well... what is the rest of your system? Be specific :smallyuk:

The 64 bit part is "width" of cards memory lanes - normal cards have 2-4x times that, as it is budget card. It slows the card down.

The dedicated memory bit is how much ram card has - it has 256 mb. However, most cards can store data in computer ram, bringing the total to 512-2048 mb. This is much slower than pure card ram, but has to be done if you want prettier textures. Also, you "lose" the part of computer ram the card is using.

The card doesn't have ram specified, as each sub-manufacturer is free to add the amount he wants.

Don't buy 38xx series - they're old and power-hungry. Go for 48xx (for example, Ati 4850 Toxic is a very good card) or above - Ati just introduced 5xxx series, so you can buy it, or use discounts on earlier 4xxx.

It also depends on your budget.

[Siosilvar]

A suggestion? In my experience, nVidia graphics cards have been better than comparatively priced ATI cards.

Just be sure you get one that fits in your computer - some graphics cards take up two slots.

[warty goblin]

A suggestion? In my experience, nVidia graphics cards have been better than comparatively priced ATI cards.

Just be sure you get one that fits in your computer - some graphics cards take up two slots.

And based on the entirely non-scientific collection of threads I've seen discussing games having problems with nVidia or ATI, ATI's seem have more compatibility issues.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Buying a graphic card is like buying a toaster. (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1477)

[factotum]

The ATI 3450 bit just tells you what graphics chip is on the card. The amount of installed RAM it has will vary depending who manufactured the card and how much it cost--it's certainly possible to get really low-end graphics cards with a gig of RAM, but such a card wouldn't run Fallout 3 any better than your current one!

[Domochevsky]

Well, as a suggestion i could put out the GeForce 8800GT from nVidia. It's not a expensive card anymore (like 60 bucks by now) and it still has some quite nice processing power behind it. The card is physically pretty big, but still a one-slot card. It's not exactly a killer-card but Doom 3, FEAR and especially Fallout 3 run quite smoothly and nice looking on it. :smallsmile:

[Irbis]

A suggestion? In my experience, nVidia graphics cards have been better than comparatively priced ATI cards.

Pffft, only in forums ran by nVidia's lackeys.


Just be sure you get one that fits in your computer - some graphics cards take up two slots.

I'd be more concerned about quality and quantity of available power.


Well, as a suggestion i could put out the GeForce 8800GT from nVidia. It's not a expensive card anymore (like 60 bucks by now) and it still has some quite nice processing power behind it. The card is physically pretty big, but still a one-slot card. It's not exactly a killer-card but Doom 3, FEAR and especially Fallout 3 run quite smoothly and nice looking on it. :smallsmile:

Yes, GF 8800 is nice, but GF 9800 is the same card, made with far more power-saving options (takes less power).

Also, you need to know what you're buying - some 8800/9800 models cost almost the same, but have almost twice the power thanks to various optimizations (such as having twice the shading units).

[Mando Knight]

Pffft, only in forums ran by nVidia's lackeys.

Or if you're running a game that's sold through Steam: nVidia seems to have proprietary code that works best on their graphics cards. :smallconfused:

[Dhavaer]

System specs:

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor E7400 (2.80GHz, 1066FSB, 3MB)
Memory 6GB (2x2GB/2x1GB) NECC Dual Channel DDR2 800MHz SDRAM Memory
Video Card 256MB ATI Radeon(TM) HD 3450 DDR2
Hard Drive 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with Native Command Queuing

I can't seem to find what kind of power supply I have. I was expecting to spend $3-400. The computer's case is quite narrow, so a smaller card might be better.

[tyckspoon]

The good news is that you won't have to spend anywhere near $300; the rest of the specs on that thing are quite sound (you usually have to visually check the power supply ratings, as that isn't reported to the system- open the case and look at the thing, the voltage and amperages should be on a big prominent sticker.) The bad news is that it sounds like you might have to use a low-profile card, which severely restricts your options. You can go up to an HD 4650 on the ATI side and a 9800GT in the Nvidia range in low-profile cards, although you'll be stuck with basically one manufacturer.

[Dhavaer]

I took the case to the store today and I do need a low profile card; I don't recall exactly what the name of the one recommended was but it had the number 220 in it.

[Dispozition]

I took the case to the store today and I do need a low profile card; I don't recall exactly what the name of the one recommended was but it had the number 220 in it.

That would be an nVidea card. Since you need low profile, I can't offer any advice, all the current good cards from ATI are dual slot cards, even if they are the best on the market...Seriously, 5770, such a damn good card.

[Crispy Dave]

Sounds like you have a decent computer there.

OK suggestion 1:
If it's possible go ahead and get a new case for your computer. It will make upgrades so much easier and there are so many good cases out there for cheap. That way you can get an non-low prophile card which will get you a much better card as an option.


Suggestion 2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+1069633099+1419530408&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=)


Edit:

this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121347) is what you were recomended at the store

this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814187061) is what I would recomend. It is a last gen card but it it top of the line for last gen as far as the chipset. It also has faster clocked rates.

[Zincorium]

I built myself a micro-ATX minicomputer a while back, and the mobile case still had enough room to (carefully) install a GTX 295, which is an absolutely massive card. If your case is restricting you to low profile cards, it's either tiny or badly designed.

Grab a sub-200$ video card (there are some really good ones, you don't need one that costs more unless you're running crysis at high resolutions- that's what people like me buy cards for) and spend the money on a new case, assuming there isn't an emotional attachment of some sort to the one you have.

A side note: you didn't mention what sort of motherboard you have, but that's fairly important when buying graphics cards. If it has AGP, you're going to have a hard time finding a good card. PCI express is still perfectly valid, and that's probably what you have considering the age of your other components.

[Rescindment]

Stop right there. Although I agree with the reccomendations for the 9800, get the 9800GTx, not the GT. For price, it is so much better value for what you get. At last look the GTx was $130 on amazon.

[Trixie]

System specs:

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor E7400 (2.80GHz, 1066FSB, 3MB)
Memory 6GB (2x2GB/2x1GB) NECC Dual Channel DDR2 800MHz SDRAM Memory
Video Card 256MB ATI Radeon(TM) HD 3450 DDR2
Hard Drive 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive with Native Command Queuing

I can't seem to find what kind of power supply I have. I was expecting to spend $3-400. The computer's case is quite narrow, so a smaller card might be better.

Um, there's a slight problem there - your card is so low-end that it runs on power from motherboard, but most of good cards run on one or two power lines coming directly from power supply; find out how many and what type (6/8 pin) of those you have (usually, there are from 0 to 3).

Although, to be hones, if I were you I'd buy some solid looking case without power supply, add a good supply unit to it (BeQuiet, for example, 450-600 watt range, depending on your new card) - this way, you'll be sure nothing wrong will happen to your computer on maximum load. Then, spend the rest of money on card.

Also, while 9800 is a damn good card (and, to be honest, practically last good nVidia model) its also a bit old, and I'd buy Ati you can afford (say, that recommended 48xx/57xx) unless you know how to manually remove your card drivers or reinstall your entire system, as card drives from different companies hate themselves causing various issues.

Also - I don't know why they recommended GT220 to you, but if it was for any other reason than size, it would mean that they either don't know what they're talking about, or push items not selling well. 220 is a very poor card, not much better than what you have, as indicated by number (anything below 5-6 in 'x' - 2x0 (nVidia) or 5x00 (Ati) indicates low powered, budget card).

[Erloas]

A side note: you didn't mention what sort of motherboard you have, but that's fairly important when buying graphics cards. If it has AGP, you're going to have a hard time finding a good card. PCI express is still perfectly valid, and that's probably what you have considering the age of your other components.

From the specs we have we can pretty much guarentee that it isn't AGP. No system builder would have put 6GB on a system from that long ago (AGP hasn't been common for at least 4 years). And the 3450 didn't come out until long after PCI-E became standard.



If you need a low profile card it is going to limit what you can do.
You can get something like a 4650 in low profile for about $65. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102829) While its not a high end card it will run everything at least decently. And it is designed to run from motherboard power so it is much less likely that you would have to upgrade the power supply. (although you still might have to, I installed a 4650 for my step brother on my dad's computer and I still had to replace the PSU because it was only 250W).
That would be the cheapest and easiest option.

Edit: I also found a 9800 GT low profile (http://www.amazon.com/Sparkle-SX98GT512D3L-NM-GeForce-PCI-Express-Graphics/dp/B001T26QMY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260717069&sr=8-2), which is twice as much but a fair amount more powerful. Would be much more likely to need a new power supply though. You would probably need to check how long of a card you can fit too, while 11" isn't that long for most cases, it might be for a micro case like you seem to have. The 4650 seems to be a few inches shorter, but they don't give exact dimensions, just going from where the end of the PCI-E connector to the back of the card visually. It would also be better if you could find the 4650 in GDDR3 instead of GDDR2 like the one I linked but a quick search didn't come up with any.

Otherwise it seems like your other option is to replace the case, most likely the PSU, and get a new card. You will have better options here, but it is going to cost a lot more and be a lot more work.

[tyckspoon]

Also - I don't know why they recommended GT220 to you, but if it was for any other reason than size, it would mean that they either don't know what they're talking about, or push items not selling well. 220 is a very poor card, not much better than what you have, as indicated by number (anything below 5-6 in 'x' - 2x0 (nVidia) or 5x00 (Ati) indicates low powered, budget card).

It's mostly size. I work in a fairly large electronics store; I can comfortably say we have the largest selection you'll find without going online. Gaming-class low profile cards are just very rare. We don't carry low-profile cards above the GT 220/9400GT/HD 4350 (we also don't carry the brands who are making them, which probably has something to do with it.)

[Dhavaer]

Eeeeeee! I've got my graphics card and Fallout 3 runs like a dream with all the options turned up to maximum. Thanks guys!

[Erloas]

Eeeeeee! I've got my graphics card and Fallout 3 runs like a dream with all the options turned up to maximum. Thanks guys!

So what did you end up getting? Did you have to replace a power supply, case, or get a low profile card or what?

[Dhavaer]

A Leadtek GT 220. Low profile card.