[DnD 3.5] Keeping an Eye on a Large City

[Warclam]

I'm creating a campaign which takes place in a really big city, roughly a 16x10 mile rectangle. I have an organization of villains who'll need to keep tabs on what's going on, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to go about it. My first thought was a diviner, but I'm not sure what kind of spells would work best for this kind of situation. Scrying only works on creatures, and arcane eye and prying eyes don't have the necessary range. Also, what about situations where scrying doesn't work? There are only so many stealthy types that can be employed/dominated/created.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

[Darkmatter]

A Third Eye: Sense (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#sense) will do it for the low low price of 24000 gp.

[Lord of Syntax]

It rhymes with Frying Lies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyes.htm)

[GreyVulpine]

Eye of Power (http://imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4409) from the Spell Compendium. Divination spell, 9th level Sor/Wiz. Works just like arcane eye but has an unlimited range. Spellcaster can also cast any spell of 3rd level or lower through the eye. The magic eye is corporeal and of Fine size, with 18 AC and 77 hit points.

[deuxhero]

Locate City+frost casting+energy sub+born of three thunders+explosive spell

Wait...

[Ashtar]

And a group of beggars, aided by a few awakened rats by the local crazy sewer dwelling wererat druid will do it for only a few gold a week and whatever scraps come their way.

Why uses masses amounts of magic every day when you can rely on people for the most part?

Also for example Chain of Eyes (Complete Divine).

There's nothing scarier than awakened rats! /flees

[deuxhero]

Wererat druid seems a bit redudent. A druid alreddy has wildshape (vermin is an ACF for large animals I think, in the cityscape web enchancment)

[Warclam]

A Third Eye: Sense (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#sense) will do it for the low low price of 24000 gp.

Hmm, that would work very well. No good for cracking illusions or suchlike, but for just getting a look at a spot in the city it can't really be beat. Definitely getting one of those.


It rhymes with Frying Lies (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/pryingEyes.htm)

Prying eyes would be excellent if it weren't for the 1 mile range. Still useful if a lot of information has to be gathered relatively quickly, but inconvenient for everyday spying since you have to actually go there.


Eye of Power (http://imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=4409) from the Spell Compendium. Divination spell, 9th level Sor/Wiz. Works just like arcane eye but has an unlimited range. Spellcaster can also cast any spell of 3rd level or lower through the eye. The magic eye is corporeal and of Fine size, with 18 AC and 77 hit points.

Arcane eye actually has unlimited range already, my issue with using it was actually the duration, since it wouldn't be able to get into position fast enough. Being able to cast third-level spells is a big advantage over the regular version, I'll remember that if the diviner ends up being high enough level.

It did just occur to me that you could create an arcane eye in an area you're looking at with divination, such as Third Eye of Sense. That would be good if you suspect there's something you can't see, since true seeing functions through an arcane eye. The 10-minute casting time could be a problem though, especially since any given glimpse with the Third Eye would only last 3 minutes. Rapid Spell, I suppose. Hmm, this is starting to look more feasible.

I agree about having some mundane spies, but maybe something a little less... conspicuous than crazed sewer-dwelling rat druids would work a bit better.

[Ashtar]

Well the sewer dwelling wererat druid was just a justification to use awakened rats as spies. How inconspicuous can just another rat in a city be?

Could also use any kind of crow and other animals, too. Best intelligence gathering tool I've found, since they can hide well, listen and report in multiple languages what they heard. They gain darkvision 60ft, too.

[Anonymouswizard]

Give them an aspect mirror from complete scoundrel. Or, better yet, give the a mirror that looks exactly like an aspect mirror, then the PCs sneak in and swap it with an aspect mirror. Or use scry location if you want to see their hideout but not the creature. Or have the cleric and diviner cast as many divination questions as they can to find out the best method :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Johel]

Knowing what kind of budget we got might be helpful.
Also, what are the goals of the organization ?

To keep tracks of important people and of your own agents :
Crystal Ball (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#crystalBall)

To know what's going on in the streets :
Business :
"He who controls transport controls trade"
That's not completely true anymore in modern time but that's true in D&D.
Set yourself a nice network of scribes, dockers, coaches,... anyone who has access to the warehouses, the docks, the stables and the caravans. They won't feed you ALL information but anything unusual or especially valuable should be noticed. 1sp/day per agent + a hefty bonus for any relevant information.
Politics :
That one needs a lot of social skills. Basically, make sure to have a contact with the people who matters. The wives of such people can be a gold mine for information too, what with the gossips that come with a boring aristocratic life ?
Adventurers :
Get a drunk idiot in all Inn of the city as your retainer.
For 1sp/day, that man will tell you whenever he sees heavily armored people throwing their wealth around. Same idea here : he spots something really good, he got a few gold coins. Prostitutes are also a good guess...
Magic :
Arcane Sight. If something really powerful is around or has been around, that's all you'll need to track it. A pair of lens with continuous Arcane Sight costs about 60.000 gp. A pair of lens with at-will (command word) Arcane Sight costs about 27.000 gp.

"Contact Other Planes" every Friday can be useful too, with the questions :
Did a powerful magic item entered the city since last Friday ? Y/N
Y : Is that powerful magic item still in the city ? Y/N
N : Did a magic item entered the city since last Friday ? Y/N
Y : Is that magic item still in the city ? Y/N
N : Is somebody in the city plotting against [Organization] ? Y/N
Y : Do I know this somebody ?


If there's a new magic item still in the city, you can find it with arcane eye + your network
If there's someone plotting against your organization, you can identify him with the crystal ball + your network. Knowing that it's someone you know simply reduces the spectrum of your search.

[Nehh]

Maybe you could create an expansion on the Prying Eyes... maybe if you had some lower-leveled wizard employees to cast the spell over a certain small area of the city, with each reporting back to the boss.

Do you think they could afford to keep 160 lower-level wizards, though? Hmm. Maybe have two or three wizards maintaining a patrol alongside the other security systems.

[Warclam]

Well the sewer dwelling wererat druid was just a justification to use awakened rats as spies. How inconspicuous can just another rat in a city be?

Could also use any kind of crow and other animals, too. Best intelligence gathering tool I've found, since they can hide well, listen and report in multiple languages what they heard. They gain darkvision 60ft, too.

Ah, yes. Hmm... awakened animals would make excellent spies, but they represent quite a number of resources. Awaken costs 250XP, which isn't too bad, but an extensive network of them would pile up quickly. I like it, though. I'll find some way to make it work. I've been wanting some kind of minion-keeper, why not awakened animals?


Give them an aspect mirror from complete scoundrel. Or, better yet, give the a mirror that looks exactly like an aspect mirror, then the PCs sneak in and swap it with an aspect mirror. Or use scry location if you want to see their hideout but not the creature. Or have the cleric and diviner cast as many divination questions as they can to find out the best method :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

scry location? Where's that? I looked for it, but couldn't find it. The aspect mirror is a good idea for the major players in the organization, I'll keep it in mind.


Maybe you could create an expansion on the Prying Eyes... maybe if you had some lower-leveled wizard employees to cast the spell over a certain small area of the city, with each reporting back to the boss.

Do you think they could afford to keep 160 lower-level wizards, though? Hmm. Maybe have two or three wizards maintaining a patrol alongside the other security systems.

Keeping that many 9th-level wizards on retainer seems like it would strain resources too much to be practical. I think any use of prying eyes will be preceded by enough other divination to pin down a 1-mile radius to check. On the other hand, a few 3rd-level seers can manifest clairvoyant sense all over the place, keeping tabs on hotspots, plus the aforementioned Third Eye. That should be doable.


A large number of excellent suggestions

Um, wow. I'll definitely follow this list when I need to place spies. Crystal balls are a little problematic for tracking public figures (since they can resist, some of them eventually will), but for keeping an eye on members it would be perfect. Probably it'll have its own mental 'flavour', and they'll know better than to resist the boss' watchful eye.

I like the weekly communes with extradimensional forces. A good question can save a lot of futile searching.

[Johel]

I like the weekly communes with extradimensional forces. A good question can save a lot of futile searching.

If your organization is religious and can afford it, you want to use Commune rather than Contact Other Planes, though. Those pesky Intelligence checks can put your 7th level wizard out of commission. Also, the answer's accuracy is higher with Commune. The XP cost can easily be taken care of with a arena-style fight between the cleric and a wolverine, a boar or a similar animal.

[Dervag]

Ah, yes. Hmm... awakened animals would make excellent spies, but they represent quite a number of resources. Awaken costs 250XP, which isn't too bad, but an extensive network of them would pile up quickly. I like it, though. I'll find some way to make it work. I've been wanting some kind of minion-keeper, why not awakened animals?You can houserule that awakened animals can communicate with and give commands to their un-awakened brethren, in which case a relatively small number of awakened rats give you access to a much larger intelligence network.

This is not an uncommon trope; Fritz Leiber used it, and his work was one of the founding inspirations for D&D.

[Coidzor]

Wererat druid seems a bit redudent. A druid alreddy has wildshape (vermin is an ACF for large animals I think, in the cityscape web enchancment)

Also, not a very good druid, since they become ex-druids if their alignment changes due to wererat. Which it will given enough time.

[BRC]

Personally, as the DM, I would give one of the people the ability to command and speak to Crows. He uses them as an intelligence network. Their inconspicuous enough that nobody will notice anything out of the ordinary, but once the PC's learn what to look for they have a way to avoid them/ a paranoia factor, constantly glancing around to see if there are crows on the rooftops.

Also, crows are intelligent creatures, so you don't need to have them all Awakened.

[Colmarr]

Your answer depends on whether you want the villains to be hidden or in power.

If hidden, see all of the answers above.

If in power, read 1984. There is no better information source than an adoring and/or terrified populace.

[Myrmex]

Use Moon Rats.

[Iamyourking]

I'd suggest going the way of the Order of the Lie; use imps. Imps are easy to summon and it shouldn't be too difficult negotiating a contract for the service of a few hundred from their boss. They just stay invisible with Detect Magic on so they'll be able to note any magic items or casters who enter the city, they move quickly so they can keep tabs on what's going on, and if necessary they can use their Suggestion ability to ferret out anything hidden. If they find anything out, it's easy for them to teleport back and report. While you're at it, get some Erinyes. It's easy enough for them to find things out through their Charm abilities and natural charisma. Work out a contract and you can probably get an Osyluth to manage everything for you; just make sure it's free of loopholes.

[Warclam]

If your organization is religious and can afford it, you want to use Commune rather than Contact Other Planes, though. Those pesky Intelligence checks can put your 7th level wizard out of commission. Also, the answer's accuracy is higher with Commune. The XP cost can easily be taken care of with a arena-style fight between the cleric and a wolverine, a boar or a similar animal.

Hmm, yeah, that definitely is better. I'm not sure if there'll be a cleric/archivist/whatever in the organization, but they do have access to religious facilities, so it shouldn't be a problem.


Use Moon Rats.

I was wondering when they'd come up. :smallbiggrin: Not really reliable, unless casting some kind of full moon spell when they're needed. Fun though.


Your answer depends on whether you want the villains to be hidden or in power.

Definitely hidden. The government's resources are a whole different story.


I'd suggest going the way of the Order of the Lie; use imps. Imps are easy to summon and it shouldn't be too difficult negotiating a contract for the service of a few hundred from their boss. They just stay invisible with Detect Magic on so they'll be able to note any magic items or casters who enter the city, they move quickly so they can keep tabs on what's going on, and if necessary they can use their Suggestion ability to ferret out anything hidden. If they find anything out, it's easy for them to teleport back and report. While you're at it, get some Erinyes. It's easy enough for them to find things out through their Charm abilities and natural charisma. Work out a contract and you can probably get an Osyluth to manage everything for you; just make sure it's free of loopholes.

Good idea, but it unfortunately doesn't work with the ruler of this particular organization; there's no way he'd rely on someone else to provide minions unless he pulled all the strings. The city guard is also sufficiently on the ball that just invisibility wouldn't be enough to keep to little fiends hidden, and then the whole house of cards would come crashing down.


You can houserule that awakened animals can communicate with and give commands to their un-awakened brethren, in which case a relatively small number of awakened rats give you access to a much larger intelligence network.

This is not an uncommon trope; Fritz Leiber used it, and his work was one of the founding inspirations for D&D.


Personally, as the DM, I would give one of the people the ability to command and speak to Crows. He uses them as an intelligence network. Their inconspicuous enough that nobody will notice anything out of the ordinary, but once the PC's learn what to look for they have a way to avoid them/ a paranoia factor, constantly glancing around to see if there are crows on the rooftops.

Also, crows are intelligent creatures, so you don't need to have them all Awakened.

I think a combination of these would work best, actually. Druid can somehow command the critters and tell them that one of his awakened minions is now in charge. Initiate of Nature would work nicely, or even just speak with animals and a good wild empathy check. The Cityscape web enhancement also introduces a variant on animal companions that basically gives you a tougher familiar and allows you to talk to animals of that kind. I'm still torn between rats and crows, though. Rats are sneakier, but crows are more mobile.

By the way BRC, I love your avatar.

[BRC]

I think a combination of these would work best, actually. Druid can somehow command the critters and tell them that one of his awakened minions is now in charge. Initiate of Nature would work nicely, or even just speak with animals and a good wild empathy check. The Cityscape web enhancement also introduces a variant on animal companions that basically gives you a tougher familiar and allows you to talk to animals of that kind. I'm still torn between rats and crows, though. Rats are sneakier, but crows are more mobile.

By the way BRC, I love your avatar.

Thanks.
You could have both, Rats and Crows. Crows for keeping an eye on crowds, rats for getting inside places. The organization has two druids, known as the Carrion Brothers (Both Rats and Crows are scavengers), they go by Rat and Crow.

Rat lives in the sewers, conversing with his little furry friends. Crow lives in the highest tower.

[Slayn82]

- And Gnomes can speak with small burrow animals, that could come handy.

- To speak with Birds, get a first level mage with a Raven Familiar.

- Rats are good at finding dead bodies, or disposing of them.

- Bracelet of Friends can be used to rescue important members from deadly situations.

[Shademan]

you're the friggin DM! say that the wizard researched a higher level prying eyes that work just as you darn well please!
also... ever seen "They live"?
ANYONE can be spy.......

[dsmiles]

I usually leave the "how" kind of vague, until a situation comes up where it needs to be explained.

[Telonius]

Adventurers :
Get a drunk idiot in all Inn of the city as your retainer.
For 1sp/day, that man will tell you whenever he sees heavily armored people throwing their wealth around. Same idea here : he spots something really good, he got a few gold coins. Prostitutes are also a good guess...


Shady drunk guy is a good bet. Prostitutes can be risky if there's a bard in the party - she'll go from spy to plot hook in a single Charisma check.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

if he could get a hold of hag minions, a covey can construct "hag eyes", which allows the hags to see through them whenever they wish. the next step would be to spread them around various useful viewpoints

[LibraryOgre]

Read Steven Brust's Dzur. Some of the others in the series are good for this, but Dzur is where you really see the Organization (even if it's the Left Hand) working.

You have runners out gathering protection money; they also gather information. Things local business owners are noticing, or worried about. When they pass the money higher, they also pass on the information. The local leaders pass on information and money, until it gets to the top and gets heavily filtered.

[Johel]

Shady drunk guy is a good bet. Prostitutes can be risky if there's a bard in the party - she'll go from spy to plot hook in a single Charisma check.

:smallwink:

Bards don't do whores.
They do the waitresses, the princesses and the nuns.

[cZak]

Read Steven Brust's Dzur. Some of the others in the series are good for this, but Dzur is where you really see the Organization (even if it's the Left Hand) working.

You have runners out gathering protection money; they also gather information. Things local business owners are noticing, or worried about. When they pass the money higher, they also pass on the information. The local leaders pass on information and money, until it gets to the top and gets heavily filtered.

This. All this.

AWESOME series, too. Though I got kind of tired of the "preachy" direction Brust meandered into with the later books...

OP
Don't be so dependent on justifying it magically. You don't even have to develop the minute details of how information is acquired by the organization.
The City of Greyhawk, Gem of the Flanaess detailed an awesome background for information gathering using mundane resources.
- City divided into districts, each having its own Thieves guild leader who reported to the Master thief of the city.
- Beggers Union guild; members provided free room and board by providing information to the Master.
- Sewers and Street cleaners; members paid to provide or report (find out) interesting information.


You can't eat an elephant in one bite...
Overall, a city develops a lot of interesting information. But strategically dividing the responsibilities out provides a great filtering system for the good stuff to reach the ears most interested... or can make best use of...

[Tyndmyr]

My personal favorite is Raindrops Like a Thousand Mirrors. Sure, it's published by Mongoose(Quint Sorc), and sure, it's not the most powerful level 9 spell....but seeing out of every raindrop or body of water within miles of you is an awesome image.