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View Full Version : How to play a dumb but wise character???



Narmy
2009-12-13, 06:06 AM
I have a character with a low intelligence score, and a high wisdom score.

I'm not sure how to go about roleplaying this character.


Additional Information. (Not sure if ya need, but yeah)

He's a halfling, Cleric, in the faerun campaign setting, worships Cyrrollalee, and is a Lightfoot from the Luriean or however you spell Region.

kpenguin
2009-12-13, 06:07 AM
Two words: Forrest Gump.

Theodoric
2009-12-13, 06:07 AM
Low intelligence means no knowledge about things. Doesn't know more about the physical world than what's outside his region, and even that is limited.

Serpentine
2009-12-13, 06:12 AM
Ooo! Ooo! I've done this! Pick me, pick me! :smallbiggrin:

It may not fit your character, but mine (half-orc Rogue/Catlord, low Int high Wis (can't remember what numbers, exactly)) had "a very well-developed sense of self preservation". To put it unkindly, she was a coward. But more to the point, she was not a problem-solver, not clever, couldn't read, not good with logic, etc., but she had good senses, "street smarts" in a way, and an excellent instinct for danger and how to avoid it. If a giant iron-horned bull was charging at her, she wouldn't figure out logically that the safest place to be is behind that barrel there, and calculate the ideal moment to leap. She would be more "Bull. Barrel. LEAP NOW." Doesn't do deliberate tactical advantage, but does do "Shea have bad feeling bout this...".

Any help?

edit: Cuz I don't think there's any point posting a whole new post about this... It basically comes down to (will add to this as further ideas come along):
Don't Do (most or many of these)
logic
problem-solving
literacy (including knowing about bookish things, not just being able to read)
intellectualism
planning
tactics
strategy
wit (in terms of social interaction)
cleverness
analysis
verbosity
general knowledge
learning

Do (some, several or many of these)
instinct
hunches
sensory perception
faith
emotive response
street-smarts
survival skills
talent
situation assessment
wit (in terms of "keeping one's wits")
common sense

cheezewizz2000
2009-12-13, 06:13 AM
You could probably get away with having a guy that seems smart at first glance, but give him some odd habits or beliefs that are just simply wrong. My Last character with low Int and high Wis had no idea about the value of money. I think I paid 200 gold to get six bronze, non-magical pendants. To be fair, the craftswoman made them in record time, and I think she moved her family to a nicer house...

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-13, 06:15 AM
Simple wisdom and common sense.

Don't analyze, don't overthink answers. When looking for inspiration on how to draw analogies, oversimplify things.

However, show a good understanding of good-idea/bad-idea. That may be thrown off some simply because you can't pick up on certain more intricate conclusions, but assume you can understand right/wrong, good/bad keenly.

In other words:
Intelligence is knowing that water boils at 212 degrees fahrenheit.
Wisdom is knowing that sticking your hand in boiling water is a bad idea.

Setra
2009-12-13, 06:23 AM
The way I see it, a character who acts like an idiot in many ways, using a simple vocabulary (or thog-speak if the int is that low) but in the end someone who knows what they're talking about...

10 int "The chancellor seems corrupt"

8 int "The chancellor looks like he's up to no good"

6 int "That there chansler feller seems like a mighty bad guy"

4 int "me think this bad guy. can smash?"

Roc Ness
2009-12-13, 06:34 AM
Simple wisdom and common sense.

How I always thought it.

Another, stupider example situation would be: A bad guy hands out a poisoned cookie to a dumb but wise guy.
Wisdom in this example is to not trust the bad guy.
Dumb in this example would be to not know what a cookie is. :smallbiggrin:

Narmy
2009-12-13, 06:47 AM
Thank you all very much, I think that I have a good idea now. At least, I would hope so. lol

Reaper_Monkey
2009-12-13, 07:24 AM
Don't Do (most or many of these)
problem-solving
planning
tactics
strategy


These may seem all the same, but I have to disagree and say that tactics fits into wisdom. Fore-planning and an in-depth evaluation of a situation is what the other three here suggest and is very much a key requirement for intelligence. However tactics are short term solutions to an immediate and obvious problem, pure use of tactics alone will result in very well crafted immediate solutions, which have no consideration to future events and therefore are redundant after the current hurdle has been passed.

I'll give an example, a trap in a corridor causes the walls of the corridor to slide in towards each other, crushing anyone in the corridor. The rest of the party is still in the room before hand but the room on the other side of the corridor is closer. Clearly this requires quick thinking and an immediate solution!

A high wis low int person would favour tactics over anything else, the most effective solution to this problem is to get out of the corridor as soon as possible and thus they would run for the second room.
A high int and low wis person would favour strategy, they would know that separating themselves from the group could be more lethal in the long run and so would attempt to run back to the first room, even though its more dangerous in the short term and may kill them outright now.

Of cause this is a clearly simplified example and in reality would have many more variables to consider, but the point is that someone with high wisdom but no intelligence makes very optimal solutions for very short term issues. This makes them quite predictable to anyone who looks at the bigger picture and has a better int score than them, but it also means that they would assess situations better in the short term than someone with high int and low wis.

A high wis low int character would aim to live another day, regardless of what tomorrow may hold, so long as they can get there then they feel like they have succeeded. They would prepare for things in a "well this big rock might come in handy way" rather than a "we will need three of x, two y's and a large z but with them this plan is foolproof". Infact, they're the ones who prove that foolproof plans are often foiled by fools, because they may be dim but they're highly resourceful in the short term. They have simple and straight forward motto's that are profound like "walk carefully and carry a big stick" (or any number of lines from forest gump).

Narmy
2009-12-13, 07:33 AM
My character is a pack rat, and likes to make decisions that he can't make his mind up about with a coin that he flips. Heads or Tails.

I once had him decide between three halls using a coin method.

Heads or tails for the first two hallways, middle hallway won

Heads and tails for the middle and left hallway.

Left hallway won.

Heads or tails for middle or left. Middle won.

I then had him proceed to excitedly search a chest that appeared to be empty. He was then picked up and carried a short distance away by a group member. He then excitedly rushed back over to the box and began to search about it, found a rod attached to the underside, and pulled it out.

This set off a trap, lol.

This is how I've been playing him, oh and although he's a packrat. He may sometimes forget what items he actually has on him.

I think that I had him say something around the lines of. "Now if only I had a rope.. Oh well." Goes back to searching about the newly discovered room (the pit he fell into) Mean while he had a rope attached to the side of his backpack.

Evaluation on my current roleplay style for him?

Reaper_Monkey
2009-12-13, 07:56 AM
Evaluation on my current roleplay style for him?

I guess a lack of decision making can be a side effect of low int in so far as they are unable to reason any particular benefit from one course of action or another then randomly choosing is actually the best method of determining a result. But wisdom is meant to be perception and intuition as well, they should be able to remember what's in their bags, or at least insist on checking if he thinks he might need something from it (even if said item he thinks wont work - like a spade to make a hole in solid rock, because it digs other sort of ground, he will still check and if he has one will still try to use it).

Overall though, your stats have enough mechanical representation that they will always depict how your character acts in a mechanical sense. Personality is much harder to distil into there different ability scores, and thus you can play them however you like, they might choose which way to go randomly, but they'll still be able to find food in the wilderness and resist people trying to control their mind better than others. They may also forget what's in their bags half of the time in the same way as they fail to learn new things and find it hard to expand their skills. Seriously, play it how you want to play it after all "They're more like guidelines" anyway :smallamused:

Serpentine
2009-12-13, 08:15 AM
Narmy: Unless you're playing up the memory aspect of intelligence, that looks more low-Wisdom to me. At least, there's not much there that indicates high wisdom... In what way do you see yourself expressing the high wisdom part? At the moment, I just see low Int.

Death Ape: That was really well argued. I'm not sure that I'm entirely convinced, myself, but I feel like I'd just be mean to not concede your better reasoning.

Don't Do (most or many of these)
logic
problem-solving
literacy (including knowing about bookish things, not just being able to read)
intellectualism
planning
strategy
wit (in terms of social interaction)
cleverness
analysis
verbosity
general knowledge
learning
reason and reasoning

Do (some, several or many of these)
instinct
hunches
sensory perception
faith
emotive response
street-smarts
survival skills
talent
situation assessment
wit (in terms of "keeping one's wits")
common sense (some, several or many of these)
instinct
hunches
sensory perception
faith
emotive response
street-smarts
survival skills
talent
situation assessment
wit (in terms of "keeping one's wits")
common sense
tactics
self-awareness
intuition

Amiel
2009-12-13, 08:27 AM
In other words:
Intelligence is knowing that water boils at 212 degrees fahrenheit.

I would actually argue that has more to do with skills invested in the appropriate Knowledge than Intelligence; in other words, it's learnt phenomenon.


As for wisdom, it is instinctual understanding or intuitive understanding, it is intuition or insight; in other words, the ability to acquire and the acquisition of knowledge without reason or seemingly without inference. It just happens, and is, more or less, associated with one's natural 'state'. Which explains why animals, as statted in D&D, have more Wis than Int.
It is to represent how they react to danger, the predator-prey dichotomy, hunger, thirst et al at an instinctive, innate level rather than one that is overly cerebral or paradigmatic.

Grumman
2009-12-13, 08:40 AM
I'd say he'd be good at going in blind and making it out alive. Problem is, he's always going in blind. He won't benefit as much from planning and if anyone takes the time to observe him, he's predictable.

erikun
2009-12-13, 10:25 AM
Evaluation on my current roleplay style for him?
If you're having fun, enjoy. :smallbiggrin:

Beyond that, perhaps you should play him as spur-of-the-moment. As in, while he's reasonably smart and good at coming up with ideas, he rarely puts much thought into planning ahead. Inspiration comes to him, he's just bad at holding onto it and keeping focus.

Alternatively, you could do the exact opposite - he uses common sense and preparation before heading out, but just gets a bit too excited when he's "out on the field". It's not that he forgot to check if there was a rope on his belt, just that he'd rather look around the pit and see for himself what is down there.

DabblerWizard
2009-12-13, 10:37 AM
I think the people above gave good suggestions. I'm just going to extrapolate a bit.

A point I didn't see mentioned, is that, especially if you plan on playing this character for a while, his personality doesn't have to be static. Anyone can have a temporary burst of genius after all, for instance. Moments like that can be jaw dropping and hilarious.

You can make your job easier, by focusing on a handful of unique reactions that your character uses repeatedly.

For instance, when it comes time to give your input, or take part in a party decision, a low int character might not be able to explain themselves very well (or maybe at all)
- you might babble nonsense, say random words that don't have a consistent theme... "The cleric wanted to go and I decided to have a cheese sandwich but then I remembered that I didn't polish my sword because my horse..."
- you give explanations without reasons "Yes I think so"
- you give simple, linear explanations "I hit him because he was mean"

This same low int but high wisdom character might have incredible spontaneous insights into an NPCs motivations, but again, could never explain how they came to that conclusion.

World Eater
2009-12-13, 12:13 PM
"He doesn't say much, but when he does everyone will stop to listen."

Forgot who said that, but it stuck with me.

ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-12-13, 12:56 PM
oh our paladin has this. . .well HAD this, we got him a headband of inteleect because we found out he was the secret crowned prince and a 4 int is a terrifying trait in a king. . .

he played his character allot like a child. You know how kids have ridiculously impressive insight into things. . . . but also are totally convinced that babies come from storks and cant use words with more than 3 sylables successfully.

yeah just like that.

getting him the headband of intellect +4 was histerycal. . . he's a great role player and his character just kinda went. . . "wow" once he litterally doubled his intelligence.

ericgrau
2009-12-13, 02:46 PM
Observant but unable to interpret what he observes. All trees no forest.

Sometimes he might provide deep insight on a challenge without knowing it, yet his smarter allies will be able to put together the pieces he provides.

Also may have a good idea of how to get along in some matter based on what he's seen and experienced without really knowing how it works.

ghashxx
2009-12-13, 02:50 PM
The mighty warrior Minsc informs you that his ferocious hamster "Boo" greatly approves of the direction you are taking so far. Just make certain to get some sleep, Boo is getting squirrely. Or at least that's what I heard coming from my speakers 5 minutes ago.

Reaper_Monkey
2009-12-13, 03:50 PM
The mighty warrior Minsc informs you that his ferocious hamster "Boo" greatly approves of the direction you are taking so far. Just make certain to get some sleep, Boo is getting squirrely. Or at least that's what I heard coming from my speakers 5 minutes ago.

GO FOR THE EYES BOO! GO FOR THE EYES!

*pets miniature giant space hamster* good boy

Trobby
2009-12-13, 07:08 PM
http://www.clunybrown.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/themessage210-crop.jpg

"All this talk 'bout tiny critters crawlin' 'round a full grown man is givin' me an uncomfortableness."

Jayne, however, is a great character to consider for those trying to find an example of "Low Int, Low Charisma, High Wisdom". Yes, I know that's a bit of a stretch, but can you argue that Jayne has an easy time remembering new facts that are presented to him? He doesn't, but he doesn't let not understanding stop him from taking advantage of a situation.

'Course maybe not so much a good example when thinking of a way to play a CLERIC, since his idea of wisdom is "Well, this is a situation where I could make me some money", but I'd say a pretty solid role model. He is, after all, the one who tracked down Mal and Zoe.

Saintheart
2009-12-13, 07:10 PM
Other possibility: channel Captain Carrot from the Discworld. Not the smartest tool in the shed, but unconsciously wise as all hell.

Asbestos
2009-12-13, 10:41 PM
Don't Do (most or many of these)
problem-solving

Except when it applies to riddles. A 6 Int, 18 Wis character should dominate an 18 Int, 6 Wis character at riddles every time. The High Int guy will be busy looking for clever cyphers, making anagrams, figuring out all possible meanings of the word 'is', and other useless over-thinking while the High Wis character simply intuits the answer.

Knaight
2009-12-13, 10:56 PM
The way I see it, a character who acts like an idiot in many ways, using a simple vocabulary (or thog-speak if the int is that low) but in the end someone who knows what they're talking about...

10 int "The chancellor seems corrupt"

8 int "The chancellor looks like he's up to no good"

6 int "That there chansler feller seems like a mighty bad guy"

4 int "me think this bad guy. can smash?"

But lots of very bright people lapse into lower speech patterns. More to the point speech patterns are often highly determined by social setting. Sometimes saying "That there chansler feller seems like a mighty bad guy" is the more intelligent option, as you have something to gain by fitting in, or the people you are trying to convince of that see "the chancellor seems corrupt" as stuffy. Sure, I could say "That chancellor demonstrates an acute propensity for malicious utilization of the capabilities of which he was endowed." Which is nothing more than a way to waste syllables. The person who gestures and says "he's abusing power" is quite possibly smarter than the person who felt the need for the longer sentence.

Of course, on this, the wisdom thing is much easier to see. The low wisdom character says one of those things with the chancellor around with absolutely no method to prevent being gotten rid of. The medium wisdom character says it without the chancellor around. The high wisdom character says it with the chancellor around after already arranging events so that it will look like a coverup when the chancellor inevitably frames him/her for something.

drengnikrafe
2009-12-13, 11:36 PM
Except when it applies to riddles. A 6 Int, 18 Wis character should dominate an 18 Int, 6 Wis character at riddles every time. The High Int guy will be busy looking for clever cyphers, making anagrams, figuring out all possible meanings of the word 'is', and other useless over-thinking while the High Wis character simply intuits the answer.

Sentiment seconded.
I consider myself to have a good intelligence, and a poor wisdom. When I read riddles, I am perfectly capable of attempting to apply one idea at a time, but there is no rhyme or reason to it. It's like if I have a square shaped hole, and a thousand blocks, but it's perfectly dark and I have no way of feeling shape: I just keeping trying until I get it right (or give up). A higher wisdom person would have some means to know that shape (a light, if you will... since this statement lends itself to "A light just went off in my brain, I know what to do").

Jastermereel
2009-12-14, 12:05 AM
I don't think I agree with those who suggest Low-Int High-Wis shouldn't be good at strategy planning or wit. I think of Intelligence as book learning, but Wisdom as reading a situation well.

If I look at that enemy fort, I may not know the type of tree used in its construction, the sort of architecture, the history of base design, the stats of the creatures patrolling and the like...but I should have a good idea of what might work.

I ain't gone quote no Son Zoo...but that doesn't mean I don't know strategy or tactics.

Think of a chess master. Some high level players may have books and books of games memorized so they know what move should follow what move based on an encyclopedic knowledge, but the best players instinctively just know what to do.

Serpentine
2009-12-14, 07:22 AM
Except when it applies to riddles. A 6 Int, 18 Wis character should dominate an 18 Int, 6 Wis character at riddles every time. The High Int guy will be busy looking for clever cyphers, making anagrams, figuring out all possible meanings of the word 'is', and other useless over-thinking while the High Wis character simply intuits the answer.I half-disagree. I think it depends on the sort of riddle. To take an example from Stephen King's Dark Tower:Blaine and Roland used their Intelligence (I think), not their wisdom, to come up with all their riddles. They involved logic, memory and careful thinking. But it was the side-ways thinking that got them. Whether that is a matter of Wisdom, Intelligence, or just the workings of the mind, is up for debate, but you're right that it was overthinking that was the problem for these characters.Really, I think Int or Wis could be equally applied to riddles. The main difference is how the conclusion is arrived at.

Jastermereel: I've kinda more-or-less covered those in the lists. See: tactics (at a previous poster's behest), intuition, instinct, situation assessment, particular version of wit...

Don't Do (most or many of these)
logic
problem-solving
literacy (including knowing about bookish things, not just being able to read)
intellectualism
planning
strategy
wit (in terms of social interaction)
cleverness
analysis
verbosity
general knowledge
learning
reason and reasoning
memory
abstract thinking

Do (some, several or many of these)
instinct
hunches
sensory perception
faith
emotive response
street-smarts
survival skills
talent
situation assessment
wit (in terms of "keeping one's wits")
common sense (some, several or many of these)
instinct
hunches
sensory perception
faith
emotive response
street-smarts
survival skills
talent
situation assessment
wit (in terms of "keeping one's wits")
common sense
tactics
self-awareness
intuition

Amphetryon
2009-12-14, 08:45 AM
Brutha (http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Brutha). Pratchett's Omnian prophet is, to my mind, a classic example of the wise fool.

Jayabalard
2009-12-14, 09:25 AM
Two words: Forrest Gump.
Two other words: Edith Bunker

Jastermereel
2009-12-14, 10:57 AM
I've kinda more-or-less covered those in the lists. See: tactics (at a previous poster's behest), intuition, instinct, situation assessment, particular version of wit...
It was that list I was thinking of when I wrote it. It'd be nice to know the reasoning behind some of the choices.

True, you've moved some into the Wisdom category, but many seem more about wisdom than intelligence. Planning, problem solving, cleverness, reasoning, strategy and even logic could fall under either category (by way of the chess analogy). It all depends on how you do this activities.