Temple of Elemental Evil

[mr.fizzypop]

So I've read online a lot about how the Temple of Elemental Evil is such a great adventure, and that its on the top ten best dnd adventures. Recently I just got my hands on a copy to take a look, and...it didn't look that great. It seemed like 75% of it is monotonous dungeon crawls, and little roleplaying or story. Now given I only skimmed through it, is there something I missed? My group doesn't like all combat and enjoys a good deal of roleplaying, so maybe its better for others. Now just so you know, I looked at the original 2e adventure, I haven't seen the 3.5 version yet. What are your thoughts on the adventure? Am I just coming to conclusions without reading it in depth?

[jmbrown]

It seemed like 75% of it is monotonous dungeon crawls, and little roleplaying or story.

Yeah, that's pretty much AD&D in a nutshell.

Seriously though, Gygax's writing style puts focus on the players. If the players aren't constantly in danger 99% of the time then the DM is doing something wrong. If the players spend time in town doing anything other than resting, splitting loot, buying new supplies, or planning the next adventure then the DM is doing something wrong.

Gygax disliked the concept of story overshadowing adventure. NPCs were meant to be expendable, monsters were meant to be killed, and traps were meant to test your wit as a player, not as an ingame character. The DM wasn't supposed to wave his hand and say "These things happen because the story is supposed to make them happen." Is it a bad thing? I don't think so it's just vastly different what we're used to.

With all that said there's plenty of room for basing an entire campaign out of Hommlet and her rival town. There are a bunch of influential NPCs, plenty of locations surrounding the area, and quite a few plot hooks you can use like hunting down the source of bandits or even have Zuggtmoy's will corrupt the Burne's Badgers and the castle becomes the new temple.

[ken-do-nim]

I think the DM is supposed to really play up the different factions in the Temple and have the party make alliances with some or something like that. I can tell you that when I played through this as a kid, my DM did not and I did find it kinda boring. But I fully expect that as an adult, a good DM can return a much richer experience. I've also played through Return to Temple of Elemental Evil and the DM did not have us make any alliances there either, and it was also a boring slog until the end.

[Starbuck_II]

You could always make the module like the game.

[dsmiles]

Unless you've got a DM that's good at improv, ToEE will be a hack'n'slash dungeon crawl. AAAAHHHHHH!!!LOOK OUT!!!!!IT'S VECNA!!!!!!

[deuxhero]

You could always make the module like the game.

"like the game"? I assume you mean the Troika "classic Greyhawk adventure" adaption?

[Triaxx]

Oh, he means very well expanded upon but also hard and capable of killing an optimized party in short order, Tomb of Horrors style? Cool. Now that'd be a TOEE worth playing.

[Thurbane]

"like the game"? I assume you mean the Troika "classic Greyhawk adventure" adaption?
I liked the Troika game a lot, even for all it's bugs.

ToEE is probably my all time fave module. We played it a few times back in our 1E days, and I'd love to play the 3.5 conversion some day (as well as the 3E sequel).

The reason we all liked ToEE so much was probably due in large part to the DM, who ran it as a campaign. Not that I've read the module, but I think he fleshed it out quite a lot from what was written, and also used a lot of excellent improv when we took an unexpected deviation from the module as written. He also played up the rivalry between the Temple factions, and ran the major NPCs with a lot of personality and flair.

I guess what I'm saying is that (like most modules) how enjoyable ToEE is really depends on the DM. You can grab the (user made) 3.X conversion notes over at the Enworld conversion forums. Same with the 3.5 conversion notes for RttToEE.

[PlzBreakMyCmpAn]

If the players aren't constantly in danger 99% of the time then the DM is doing something wrong.This makes me happy :smallsmile:

[Gorbash]

I liked the Troika game a lot, even for all it's bugs.

For example, the Indestructible Galeb-Duhrs? :smallbiggrin:

That game had an excellent rendition of D&D rules (said to say, but best of all D&D 3.5 based games), but that's all it had. No story, no intresting NPCs, no intresting quests... Just mindless killings.

[Thurbane]

For example, the Indestructible Galeb-Duhrs? :smallbiggrin:
Oh man, those guys were ridiculously tough! Unless you had Fragarach and max power attack, they took forever to kill...

No story, no intresting NPCs, no intresting quests... Just mindless killings.
I guess we'll have to disagree - I really liked the story, and the quests...but that may have been more because of my love for the original module.

If anyone plays it, I strongly suggest you grab the user made expansion/mod from the Circle of Eight forums. Adds a lot to the game, and makes the AI act a lot more intelligently in most case. For example, the Gaurd Tower battle becomes the real meat grinder that it was in the module, instead of a pushover - the mod makes the enemies a lot more organised, and the enemy casters use their spells a lot more effectively.

[Matthew]

I guess what I'm saying is that (like most modules) how enjoyable ToEE is really depends on the DM.

Exactly so. It has no overt story, so it can seem a little bland if you are used to more involved plot based modules.

[Starbuck_II]

That game had an excellent rendition of D&D rules (said to say, but best of all D&D 3.5 based games), but that's all it had. No story, no intresting NPCs, no intresting quests... Just mindless killings.

The drunk guy you can hire has some flavor (even a decent warrior).
Same for that bride with the magic cleaver. How she got a non-weapon magical +1 Keen I'll never know (illegal in D&D 3.0).

The rogue gambler is okay As well.

I thought most of the NPCs sucked but those ones worked great.
Granted I always filled their inventory with cantrip scrolls (so they couldn't steal the loot).

[Matthew]

Granted I always filled their inventory with cantrip scrolls (so they couldn't steal the loot).

Now that is a good idea! That aspect of the game really annoyed me, the inability to control loot distribution is probably the number one thing most likely to turn me off playing the computer game version of ToEE.

[Thurbane]

The Co8 user made patch had an on/off switch for the NPCs to not just grab loot like madmen...slight cheat, but it was better than them encumbering themselves with stuff they basically couldn't use.

"Oh sure, I'll grab that magic plate mail, but no way I'm letting you sell my chainmail...it's mine!" :smallyuk: