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Rev.Scarecrow
2009-12-13, 11:57 PM
What is good ac at level 2 or 3?

I always seem to make characters with not enough ac generally 15 or so.

I made an unarmed swordsage his ac is 15 and his touch ac is 13. With the unarmed thing comes the drawback of not having light armor as a option. At level 3 I plan to take a rank of rogue (for flavor, sneak attack, and light armor in this case) I will get more ranks when I need to.

Is my AC to low considering this?

Here are my stats if you are interested.
Strength 10 (+0)
Dexterity 14 (+2)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Intelligence 12 (+1)
Wisdom 16 (+3)
Charisma 8 (-1)

I'm going for a wisdom based build but a little dexterity is always good. I put enough in strength to not have a penalty and enough intelligence to be positive. Charisma is largely unimportant when it comes down to it.

Temotei
2009-12-14, 12:00 AM
What is good ac at level 2 or 3?

It's good. Good AC will always be good, even past levels 2 and 3, and before it as well.

Yukitsu
2009-12-14, 12:05 AM
Depends on what you do. I can't imagine your character dropping enemies consistently on a single blow at your level with those stats though, so being in melee with an AC of 15 means you'll be taking some pretty bad hits.

At that level, if I'm a martial character, I shoot for at least 17, but like getting a 19. If I can kill something of my level in one hit, I let it go down to 14 or so.

jmbrown
2009-12-14, 12:05 AM
Is the intelligence doing anything for you other than an extra skill? You're better off putting that in strength unless you're taking intuitive attack or weapon finesse feats.

As for your AC, it's about average for a lightly armored fighter (a rogue with 16 dex and chainmail would have 17 ac so you're a bit below average). 2nd level WBL puts you 100gp shy of armor bracers which you'll probably want unless you go with rogue to get armor.

Gralamin
2009-12-14, 12:13 AM
Completely Off-Topic 4e stuff:
Well, If this was 4e, I could tell you that monsters you should be facing would have around +5 to +8 to hit, and so an AC of 18 or higher would be "Good".
I would then point out that a tread of level+4 to level+7 is in the expected range you'd be facing each level and so AC of 17+Level would be "Good", and that this would basically hold true for just about every level.

However, since this is 3.5 (I assume), I can tell you that Attack bonuses and AC don't really line up at all, and you can have CR 1 opponents with as little as +0 (Camel) to as high as +5 (Air Elemental Small), and that this pattern may not be consistent, as Hit Dice and Stat increases progress at a startlingly different rate then CR, and that a lot of time, you can be looking at an 80%+ chance of hitting anything, making 3.5 an attacker's game by far, and thus it is usually a lot more valuable to have a strong offense then a strong defense.

Temotei
2009-12-14, 12:18 AM
Completely Off-Topic 4e stuff:
Well, If this was 4e, I could tell you that monsters you should be facing would have around +5 to +8 to hit, and so an AC of 18 or higher would be "Good".
I would then point out that a tread of level+4 to level+7 is in the expected range you'd be facing each level and so AC of 17+Level would be "Good", and that this would basically hold true for just about every level.

However, since this is 3.5 (I assume), I can tell you that Attack bonuses and AC don't really line up at all, and you can have CR 1 opponents with as little as +0 (Camel) to as high as +5 (Air Elemental Small), and that this pattern may not be consistent, as Hit Dice and Stat increases progress at a startlingly different rate then CR, and that a lot of time, you can be looking at an 80%+ chance of hitting anything, making 3.5 an attacker's game by far, and thus it is usually a lot more valuable to have a strong offense then a strong defense.

Unless that defense is miss chance. Then...maybe.

Gralamin
2009-12-14, 12:18 AM
Unless that defense is miss chance. Then...maybe.

Yeah, Miss chance is level independent.

Temotei
2009-12-14, 12:33 AM
Yeah, Miss chance is level independent.

Yep.

There's pretty much a spell at every level that has a miss chance-involved thing, though. If you can get a buff from the caster in the group, you're set pretty easily. You could even take a level or two in a casting class, but that would require hardcore multiclassing.

Yukitsu
2009-12-14, 12:35 AM
It's actually pretty possible to pump AC up to the point that things can't harm you while maintaining a credible offense. Abjurant champion comes to mind on that matter.

Krazddndfreek
2009-12-14, 12:39 AM
If you're a swordsage, then why not just use child of shadow? Maybe even go for spring attack or something similar so you can keep concealment up. When you have par/subpar AC, Concealment is your friend.:smallwink:

Eldariel
2009-12-14, 07:25 AM
Unarmed Swordsage...doesn't have many options early on. Honestly, I'd personally expect 16 AC (16 Dex and Wis) with either Dex or Wis-focus offensively (both are doable with either weapon Finesse+Shadow Blade or Intuitive Attack [BoED]+Insightful Strikes); this enables dumping Str which gives you higher AC.

That said, one thing that DOES help is the fact that you can benefit of Mage Armor. If there's a friendly arcane caster in the party, consider purchasing a Pearl of Power I for him at some point in exchange for Mage Armor on critical junctures. Given that it lasts 1 hour/level, it can actually cover a good part of the fights even on level 1.


But yeah, 17 AC is...sufficient and often the max you can achieve early on. It also means that even tough opponents have only 50/50 to hit you, while easier opponents might be nearer to 20-10% to hit.

If you have AC 20-21, you're very well off; few things have a decent chance of hitting you on those levels. Of course, achieving constant AC 20-21 is pretty hard on level 1.

Ryumaru
2009-12-14, 07:59 AM
Are unarmed Swordsages allowed light armour like base Swordsages? If so, just slap on a set of leather or padded armour; being non-proficient, as I recall, just makes ACP apply to most skills and your attack rolls. Padded, leather and masterwork studded, from what I remember, have 0ACP, so that's a quick +1-3 boost.