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Zom B
2009-12-14, 10:26 AM
Our DM gave us access to a Deck of Many Things (Dun dun DUN) and my character came out like a bandit. Get out of a bad situation (once) whenever I want, 1d4 wishes (rolled a 4), 10,000 xp, and +3 to any stat. Also, an alignment change from Chaotic Neutral to Lawful Good but meh.

So on the wishes he gave me a real-life time limit of 5 minutes to decide, and I know that if you step outside the bounds of the spell, he definitely does make the wish backfire on you in some way and I really didn't have the time to write out a 40-page Wish in legalese just to close up every possible loophole.

I'm playing a Wiz5/Incantrix 7. These were my wishes:


Undo another friend's losing all of their magic items to the deck.
A Vest of the Archmagi (way better than the Robe from what I could tell), detailed in the Magic Item Compendium but not sure what it was in before that.
A Staff of Power. It is, well, powerful but I could have probably chosen more wisely on this one. It was somewhat rushed.
Permanent True Seeing. This was definitely last minute, and I know I could have done better. Still, I can't help but think it will come in handy and save our lives at some point.


So, knowing that any outside use of Wish would most definitely backfire, what would have been some better selections?

Temet Nosce
2009-12-14, 10:35 AM
Belt of Magnificence, etc. Basically any hideously expensive magical item I would normally have trouble getting my hands on. I wouldn't meddle with anything that had a chance of backfiring at all. Honestly, you didn't do to badly (although he could've backfired the permanent true seeing since it's not covered by the usual uses of Wish so he was apparently being nice).

Cyclocone
2009-12-14, 10:40 AM
DM-wrath not withstanding, a staff of Wish at-will is still a perfectly legit magic item that just happens to have a price-tag that normally ideally puts it out of reach of non-epic people.

...But yeah.

Zovc
2009-12-14, 10:44 AM
Our DM gave us access to a Deck of Many Things (Dun dun DUN) and my character came out like a bandit. Get out of a bad situation (once) whenever I want, 1d4 wishes (rolled a 4), 10,000 xp, and +3 to any stat. Also, an alignment change from Chaotic Neutral to Lawful Good but meh.

I imagine a Chaotic Neutral character would find becoming Lawful Good a bad thing.

Zom B
2009-12-14, 10:46 AM
(although he could've backfired the permanent true seeing since it's not covered by the usual uses of Wish so he was apparently being nice).

Wish does allow for the mimicry of another lower-level arcane spell. In that regard it can mimic Permanency.


I imagine a Chaotic Neutral character would find becoming Lawful Good a bad thing.

We actually talked about this one for a little bit, about whether the character knows beforehand that their alignment is going to change. We decided that it was a surprise and since your new alignment represents an entirely new outlook on life, that there would be no RP reason for you to want to revert back to your chaotic ways.

Besides, I can roleplay a lawful good spellslinger no problem, so I'd rather use the Get Out of Jail Free card at a later time.

Temet Nosce
2009-12-14, 10:48 AM
Wish does allow for the mimicry of another lower-level arcane spell. In that regard it can mimic Permanency.

Yeah, but permanency doesn't work on True Seeing. There's a specific list of spells permanency can work on.

Zom B
2009-12-14, 10:51 AM
Yeah, but permanency doesn't work on True Seeing. There's a specific list of spells permanency can work on.

So you're right. I didn't check before replying, really. The Permanent True Seeing was the DM's suggestion anyway.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-14, 10:54 AM
Yeah, permanent true seeing is pretty darned nice.

If wishes were allowed for me as a way to permanency unusual spells, I'd use that excessively. Flight, obviously. Lifesense. Death Ward. Quite handy, and totally worth even the xp hit from casting wish yourself.

Asbestos
2009-12-14, 11:02 AM
So you're right. I didn't check before replying, really. The Permanent True Seeing was the DM's suggestion anyway.

You wished for something the DM suggested? You poor fool.

Ravens_cry
2009-12-14, 11:22 AM
Am I the only one who thought, upon seen the title, of the wish near the end of Dorkness Rising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gamers:_Dorkness_Rising)?

Sploosh
2009-12-14, 12:43 PM
Am I the only one who thought, upon seen the title, of the wish near the end of Dorkness Rising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gamers:_Dorkness_Rising)?

No, you're not alone. :smalltongue:

"YOU RUINED MY GAME!"

Karsh
2009-12-14, 01:07 PM
Ohhhh, the Gamers...

One thing you might have chosen to do was simply use all four wishes to get an inherent +4 to one stat (though the Vest of the Archmagi is more expensive, so maybe not), though Permanent True Seeing is pretty nifty.

Barbarian MD
2009-12-14, 03:02 PM
Here's my question: why can you wish for a non-magical item worth "up to" 25,000 gp, but any magical item? That seems really weird to me.

Temet Nosce
2009-12-14, 03:04 PM
Here's my question: why can you wish for a non-magical item worth "up to" 25,000 gp, but any magical item? That seems really weird to me.

I'd guess WotC didn't consider the ways to get Wish without casting it (since normally making a magical item with Wish costs EXP).

Barbarian MD
2009-12-14, 03:08 PM
Good point. I had forgotten about the xp cost of making a magic item applying with wish.

So, as in the above example with a free wish, do most DMs place a limit on the magic item you can get with a wish, or require an XP cost of the player?

Temet Nosce
2009-12-14, 03:10 PM
Good point. I had forgotten about the xp cost of making a magic item applying with wish.

So, as in the above example with a free wish, do most DMs place a limit on the magic item you can get with a wish, or require an XP cost of the player?

*shrugs*

No idea, as a DM I wouldn't let a DoMT anywhere near one of my games unless it was based on it. Similarly, I haven't had many DMs who used them and can't recall a situation where free wishes came up in one of my games.

Still, if the DM is going to do this in the first place it doesn't make much sense to house rule that unless they nerf the rest of the deck as well. Personally I'd just suggest avoiding the situation barring you basing the whole game around it.

Talakeal
2009-12-15, 04:16 PM
I find two things funny about this conversation.

First, the assumption that DM's will screw you if you wish for something outside the rules, even if it is not abusive, but will let you get away with an obvious exploit like wishing for magic items over 25k gold without XP loss due to the wish coming from an item.

Second, how no one ever considers what their character would wish for and instead power games the hell out of it. Assuming a non vindictive being granting the wishes I personally would wish for true love, eternal youth, eternal health (not invulnerability mind you), and natural talent in whatever my passions is, or perhaps just knowledge, preferably lost knowledge which I could not come by normally. I would think most characters would wish along these lines before magic items and abilities to help with combat and dungeon crawling, especially considering all that stuff can be earned in time without the need of wishes.

But maybe I am just weird?

Temet Nosce
2009-12-15, 05:10 PM
I find two things funny about this conversation.

First, the assumption that DM's will screw you if you wish for something outside the rules, even if it is not abusive, but will let you get away with an obvious exploit like wishing for magic items over 25k gold without XP loss due to the wish coming from an item.

Second, how no one ever considers what their character would wish for and instead power games the hell out of it. Assuming a non vindictive being granting the wishes I personally would wish for true love, eternal youth, eternal health (not invulnerability mind you), and natural talent in whatever my passions is, or perhaps just knowledge, preferably lost knowledge which I could not come by normally. I would think most characters would wish along these lines before magic items and abilities to help with combat and dungeon crawling, especially considering all that stuff can be earned in time without the need of wishes.

But maybe I am just weird?

1. Because the rules specifically cover some things being allowed, so it's generally safer to stick to risk free wishes (As for allowing it... they gave you a bloody Wish).

2. See above. Those things would be subject to possible distortion.

Munchkin-Masher
2009-12-15, 09:20 PM
I would wish for 4 efretti to be compelled to give me their wishes.

That or some pancakes...

With Strawberry jam...

And Sugar...

And a Fork to eat it with.

Siosilvar
2009-12-15, 09:26 PM
1. Because the rules specifically cover some things being allowed, so it's generally safer to stick to risk free wishes (As for allowing it... they gave you a bloody Wish).

2. See above. Those things would be subject to possible distortion.

The rules also include rule 0. If the DM doesn't want you to get free magical(icious) items for free (since you don't have to pay the XP), then why would he care if the rules say you can? Likewise, a "reasonable" DM would grant "reasonable" wishes.

Temet Nosce
2009-12-15, 09:44 PM
The rules also include rule 0. If the DM doesn't want you to get free magical(icious) items for free (since you don't have to pay the XP), then why would he care if the rules say you can? Likewise, a "reasonable" DM would grant "reasonable" wishes.

So the DM changes the rules specifically to mess with you so you don't get something he gave you? Yeah, at that point you may want to consider quitting. If he didn't want to give them a wish he shouldn't have given them a wish.

Perverting the wish by the rules is one thing, altering the rules to deliberately screw your players out of something you gave them is something else.

Also, generally speaking when I address something I do so from the point of RAW. I don't consider DM fiat or houserules.

deuxhero
2009-12-15, 09:58 PM
To draw 4 cards of my choice from the deck.

I wouldn't worry about DM messing up the wish. I just drew from the damn deck of many things, it's 0 sum at worst.