hello! no lets have fun optimaizing a raptorian

[pilvento]

hello everyone im new here thanks to my pals, first off all i will apology cause inglish is not my first lenguage but im shure youll have no problem with it.

i have been playing DnD for more than a year, our campaing is about to end soon and i want to be redy with a fresh new original character after we finish it using every complete 3.5 book and race books, BUT NOT TOME OF BATTLE PLEASE!

ai dream with a 2 lance* wielder raptorian ranger aiming for the stormtalon prestige class, think it wold work? i think ill be fine with dive by attack and two-weapon punce...

i call it like that but it would be a pair of short-spears

if you want to know me better, actually im playing a:

Swashbuckler1/Monk1/Sorcerer4/Enligtened fist3/Swiftblade...
and im wielding the weapon of legacy known as the desert wind

[Optimystik]

If you use Wizard instead of sorcerer, then you can key all your abilities off of Intelligence. Get Carmendine Monk or Kung-fu Genius for your monk abilities, and your spellcasting and Insightful Strike are already there. You'll also have more skill points and gain your spells faster.

[Animefunkmaster]

Just an FYI: Lance is a two handed weapon when not mounted. And its X2 damage on a charge also only applies while mounted. So you might want to look into other weapons.

The Stormtalon class is a slightly better fighter class but doesn't give you many options aside from having an extra attack. So you can do just about anything, with your major advantages being a single extra attack, high flight speed, and extra feats.

Some things I have always found interesting with flight is grapple checks, and flying your enemy into the air. Otherwise your extra attack can be more efficient with some precision based damage.

Lion Spiritual Totem* Variant** Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Rogue3/Stormtalon#
*Variant is in complete Champion to gain pounce in place of fast movement
**Variant in Unearthed Arcana/SRD, replace rage for archery combat style of ranger and favored enemy (not a huge difference, but if your in the air and the enemy has no ranged attacks you will have a decent advantage)

Feats:
You can go pretty much anywhere with feats. TWFing tree, neraph's charge (planar handbook), shocktrooper, flyby attack (you can grapple someone and continue your move into the air). You can do pretty much anything, but it's pretty vanilla in the terms of a warrior.

EDIT: I just had an interesting idea. A level of soul eater for an aerial grappler build would be pretty nifty. Your high flight speed can be used to get the enemy high into the air, while you drain levels.

[PinkysBrain]

BUT NOT TOME OF BATTLE PLEASE!
Your poor taste is poor ... but whatever floats your boat.

ai dream with a 2 lance wielder raptorian ranger aiming for the stormtalon prestige class, think it wold work? i think ill be fine with dive by attack and two-weapon punce...
Apart from being 2 handed weapons Fly By Attack unfortunately does not count as a charge unlike Ride by Attack ... so no, not really.

[pilvento]

Your poor taste is poor

WTF!?. i dont get it sry

[quiet1mi]

review the dive mechanic and look up the Ubercharger....

[pilvento]

so i can use the lionpounce or the two weapon pounce while diving, but i must stop there, i cant dive by attack... am i right?

also, i said it wrong, they wouldnt be lances, i can wield short spears in both hands

[Animefunkmaster]

Apart from being 2 handed weapons Fly By Attack unfortunately does not count as a charge unlike Ride by Attack ... so no, not really.

Actually you can:


Flyby Attack [General]
Prerequisite

Fly speed.
Benefit

When flying, the creature can take a move action (including a dive) and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack.


A creature that flies can make dive attacks.A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage.

[pilvento]

If you use Wizard instead of sorcerer, then you can key all your abilities off of Intelligence. Get Carmendine Monk or Kung-fu Genius for your monk abilities, and your spellcasting and Insightful Strike are already there. You'll also have more skill points and gain your spells faster.

i just love to be a sorcerer and be the face of the party and swashbuckler is an escuse to piss off my DM

[Sliver]

BUT NOT TOME OF BATTLE PLEASE!Your poor taste is poor ... but whatever floats your boat.WTF!?. i dont get it sry

Pretty much saying ToB is a great book and you will most likely find a good option there for whatever martial build you are trying to make.. If it is due to "ToB is Overpowered!" opinion, then know it is not.. But this is not the thread for that..

Also, doing stuff just to piss of your DM, not cool

[Loki Eremes]

ToB maybe is not overpowered... MAYBE

maneuvers & stances are a bit too much.
i mean, some of them provide you with abilities that only a feat could provide... so... tolerate people whos out there who hates or dont approve ToB.

"you poor taste is poor"? really... wtf.



on the other hand, watch out for subject change.
He wants help with his raptorian character, not his evi...good swashbuckler.

[PinkysBrain]

Actually you can:
Hmmm I forgot about that, I stand corrected. Fly by attack gives you a charge AND a standard action during the charge ... been a while since I saw that one come up.

[Ryumaru]

ToB maybe is not overpowered... MAYBE

maneuvers & stances are a bit too much.
i mean, some of them provide you with abilities that only a feat could provide... so... tolerate people whos out there who hates or dont approve ToB.

Yeah, silly people for thinking that heroic martial characters might be able to do anything. They should be sticking to their 20ft speed platemail, standing there swinging for +2 with one weapon and dying, while the Clerics become Avatar's of Gods and Sorcerers create pocket dimensions full of Pokemon and bat crap for their middle-fingers to reality.

In response to the OP, though; why Swashbuckler? If you're using a lance, you won't be using Dexterity. And if you could, why one level dip? If you're going Swashbuckler, it's generally better to see it through to third for Insightful Strike.

And also, if Tomb of Battle isn't being used/not allowed, why are you using Desert Wind's legacy sword? You know, that martial style from Tome of Battle?

[pilvento]

Hmmm I forgot about that, I stand corrected. Fly by attack gives you a charge AND a standard action during the charge ... been a while since I saw that one come up.

OH YEAH, we are back on the subject!

[pilvento]

ToB maybe is not overpowered... MAYBE
He wants help with his raptorian character, not his evi...good swashbuckler.

you sound just like a rouge in my party, he is a drow also so...

WTF! loki its you! stay away from me sneak attack adicct!
dipliomaci diplomaci!

[Loki Eremes]

Yeah, silly people for thinking that heroic martial characters might be able to do anything. They should be sticking to their 20ft speed platemail, standing there swinging for +2 with one weapon and dying, while the Clerics become Avatar's of Gods and Sorcerers create pocket dimensions full of Pokemon and bat crap for their middle-fingers to reality.

In response to the OP, though; why Swashbuckler? If you're using a lance, you won't be using Dexterity. And if you could, why one level dip? If you're going Swashbuckler, it's generally better to see it through to third for Insightful Strike.

2 things.

1- tell that to the ones making the rules. if the basic players handbook were the only manual out there, the "They should be sticking to their 20ft speed platemail, standing there swinging for +2 with one weapon and dying, while the Clerics become Avatar's of Gods and Sorcerers create pocket dimensions full of Pokemon and bat crap for their middle-fingers to reality." would be sadly but true.

2- please, read carefully. the raptorian has NO SWASHBUCKLER LVLS. the "swash/sorcerer/monk/swiftblade" thing is about another character. Nothing to do with his question.

[pilvento]

And also, if Tomb of Battle isn't being used/not allowed, why are you using Desert Wind's legacy sword? You know, that martial style from Tome of Battle?

the weapon of legacy book is great and my DM wanted to give it a try, i cant find the conection of the weapon and your tome of battle, it only has the same name as the style so in our world it isnt necesary to be playing a tome of battle character

[D-naras]

How about Lion totem* Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2/Sneak Attack Thug Fighter Variant* 3/Stormtalon + ?

This way you get to pounce(full attack) while you dive and deal sneak attack damage while also having some skills from the Thug as well as the Barbarian.

For feats you should get Neraph Charge from Planar Handbook, Craven from Heroes of Horror, and Power Attack or Two Weapon Fighting and crew. Neraph charge requires 15 Wis and 5 ranks in Knowledge(the planes) but makes an opponent flatfooted when you charge(or dive) at him, and Craven lets you add your Character level to the damage when you sneak attack. For a weapon you should use a Ripper from Planar Handbook. It's a spear with exaclty the same stats as a greatsword but deals piercing damage, so it works on your dive.

This way on your 6th level your dive looks like this: +6/+6/+1 with the Ripper for 4d6 +2*1.5*STR+2*Character Level + 3d6 Sneak Attack + 4*your penalty on Power Attack and +1 for your Talons for 1d6 +2*0.5*STR + 2*Sneak Attack + 2* your penalty for Power Attack . I didn't add any Str on your attack modifiers nor a +1 for higher ground bonus or magic.
Not the highest damage you can do by a long shot but still it's pretty good and fitting a Frenzied Sky Warrior.

If you dont have acces to these books you could always go the Shock Trooper root with regular Fighter levels.

* Lion Totem is in Complete Champion and trades your Fast Movent for Pounce.
** Thug Sneak Attack Fighter Variant is in Unearthed Arcana or better yet in the http://www.d20srd.org/ (SRD)

[Draz74]

the weapon of legacy book is great and my DM wanted to give it a try, i cant find the conection of the weapon and your tome of battle, it only has the same name as the style so in our world it isnt necesary to be playing a tome of battle character

Heh, that's very funny.

This particular Weapon of Legacy was one of the inspirations for the Tome of Battle's fluff, and was therefore reprinted in Tome of Battle.

But, since Tome of Battle is so much more popular than Weapons of Legacy, apparently some people have forgotten that the sword originally came from another source. :smallamused:

[Ryumaru]

1- tell that to the ones making the rules. if the basic players handbook were the only manual out there, the "They should be sticking to their 20ft speed platemail, standing there swinging for +2 with one weapon and dying, while the Clerics become Avatar's of Gods and Sorcerers create pocket dimensions full of Pokemon and bat crap for their middle-fingers to reality." would be sadly but true.

It would, but the constant QQing of people I see over Tome of Battle because 'OMG they can do something at level 20 that replicates a level 6 arcane spell OPOP!' gets annoying. Fast.

Also...


if you want to know me better, actually im playing a:

Swashbuckler1/Monk1/Sorcerer4/Enligtened fist3/Swiftblade...
and im wielding the weapon of legacy known as the desert wind



Looks to me like he's talking about himself.



the weapon of legacy book is great and my DM wanted to give it a try, i cant find the conection of the weapon and your tome of battle, it only has the same name as the style so in our world it isnt necesary to be playing a tome of battle character

Is it a scimitar which gives you abilities like setting stuff on fire? Take a peek in the back of Tome of Battle, pg132; Desert Wind is, surprisingly, the Legacy sword of the Desert Wind martial school.

[D-naras]

...
And also, if Tomb of Battle isn't being used/not allowed, why are you using Desert Wind's legacy sword? You know, that martial style from Tome of Battle?

Actually Desert Wind was the name for a Legacy Weapon before it became a discipline in ToB. I blame the cool Scimitar.

[pilvento]

thanks, that gived my some place to start, where can i find that fighter variant?

now the only thing left to do would be to convice my DM im a birdman who have a lion as an spiritual guide

[Ryumaru]

But, since Tome of Battle is so much more popular than Weapons of Legacy, apparently some people have forgotten that the sword originally came from another source.

Ah, my mistake then, sorry; found Weapons of Legacy too mechanically backward to really remember much about it or bother to commit it to memory. =P

[D-naras]

thanks, that gived my some place to start, where can i find that fighter variant?

now the only thing left to do would be to convice my DM im a birdman who have a lion as an spiritual guide

I editted my post. It's in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) check the class variants.

Lots of magical beasts that fly have pounce. Perhaps you could say he has a griffon as a totem instead of a lion, or something. Perhaps a Sphinx. They are cool as well. :smalltongue:

[Loki Eremes]

I editted my post. It's in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) check the class variants.

Lots of magical beasts that fly have pounce. Perhaps you could say he has a griffon as a totem instead of a lion, or something. Perhaps a Sphinx. They are cool as well. :smalltongue:

NO NO NO
I will be his master and i want to see him up there flying masked with a lion's head. period

[D-naras]

NO NO NO
I will be his master and i want to see him up there flying masked with a lion's head. period

...Actually that sounds awesome...

[Loki Eremes]

...Actually that sounds awesome...

mmmm a lion headed flying..thing, awesome indeed xD
Townfolks will love him xDD

[D-naras]

Well he is supposed to be a feral flying barbarian. I don't know if me, as a commoner, would love seeing him in my town, but i would surely be taking interest on the flying hercules.

[Loki Eremes]

Well he is supposed to be a feral flying barbarian. I don't know if me, as a commoner, would love seeing him in my town, but i would surely be taking interest on the flying hercules.


barbarian raptorian on one side and a good half drow cleric on the other one.
priceless party.

[PinkysBrain]

Anyway .... so a barbarian/scout/ranger swift hunter build with a Storm Talon dip for the talons? (You get a lot more out of this than taking Storm Talon to completion). You get bonus damage from swift hunter and Diving Charge feat making TWF worth it ... rapiers are good weapons for a dive (double damage with piercing weapons) though shortspears are closer to your original concept.

Draconomicon has some flight improving magic items (unfortunately the spells which do it aren't on the ranger spell list).

Some way of getting small would be handy too, to make it easier to fly around in dungeons.

[pilvento]

scout would be nice, and i prefear short spears, as a storm talon i can have a discount acording to de PrC.

[pilvento]

barbarian raptorian on one side and a good half drow cleric on the other one.
priceless party.

acknowloged, favored enemy: DROW

[pilvento]

then we have barbarian1/scout3/rangerX/stormtalonX

are the flying feats worth it? how many levels should i get into the stormtalon PrC?

[PinkysBrain]

Oops, nix all that ... I thought Raptorans had favoured class ranger, it's actually cleric.

1. Scout 1 - Born Flyer
2. Barbarian 1
3. Scout 2 - Fly By Attack
4. Ranger 1
5. Ranger 2 - TWF
6. Scout 3 - Swift Hunter
7. Barbarian 2 (experience penalty for this one level)
8. Storm Talon 1
9. Storm Talon 2 - Improved Skirmish, Diving Charge

More Storm Talon.

Retrain the Born Flyer and Fly By Attack feats once you can take Fly By Attack as a Storm Talon bonus feat.

It's a bit elaborate, but without some decent bonus damage it doesn't really make sense to TWF (this will give you 4d6 skirmish, 2d6 diving charge and potentially a favoured enemy bonus).

[BooNL]

My god, the spelling. The grammar...

Where has this world gone to...

[HCL]

Aside from the obvious thing about playing a cleric here are some ideas

-Roofjumper from Cityscape, lets you add fall damage to your attack
-Battle jump from Unnapproachable East, double damage on falling charges
-Power attack, mo damage
-Leap attack, Complete Adventurer multiplies your power attack damage
-Improved Bull Rush, Shock trooper: complete warrior, sub your power attack from ac instead of attack, some better bull rushing options
-Dungeoncrasher, Dungeonscape: Lets you bull rush noobs into solid objects for extra damage
-Lion's charge, Wrath Domain or Ranger spell, cast as swift action to multiply your damage on a charge this turn by 2. Dip cleric, favored soul, or archivist.

[Optimystik]

My god, the spelling. The grammar...

Where has this world gone to...


hello everyone im new here thanks to my pals, first off all i will apology cause inglish is not my first lenguage but im shure youll have no problem with it.

Pretty sure the OP already explained that. Cut him some slack, would ya?

[pilvento]

Pretty sure the OP already explained that. Cut him some slack, would ya?

:smallwink:

[PinkysBrain]

-Roofjumper from Cityscape, lets you add fall damage to your attack
-Battle jump from Unnapproachable East, double damage on falling charges
A bit questionable to combine these with dives, since he already gets bonus damage and double damage. Calling it both a dive AND a fall would be double dipping.

[NekoJoker]

About flying movement i found this other entry on a forum that might hel (covers face from flying objects)
It does not really clear out EVERY doubt there may be, but at least it helps a bit in getting you around and finding ways to fly faster, i just know you all love that stuff.

here it goes: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/255865-increasing-fly-speed.html

Notable stuff:
-Improved Flight, look in RotW pg 151 - Improved maneuverability by one step.
-Improved Maneuverability, Draconomicon Prereqs: fly speed 15o ft, hover or wingover
-Improved Speed, has a prereq of Str 13 and dragon type
-Pectoral of maneuverability (which can be worn as a vest) - Draconomicon
-Spell Compendium; Cloud wings Increased Fly move by 30ft.

I just ripped out the best of the comments, please check the thread on your own and verify all information and sources.

[NekoJoker]

About flying movement i found this other entry on a forum that might hel (covers face from flying objects)
It does not really clear out EVERY doubt there may be, but at least it helps a bit in getting you around and finding ways to fly faster, i just know you all love that stuff.

here it goes: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/255865-increasing-fly-speed.html

Notable stuff:
-Improved Flight, look in RotW pg 151 - Improved maneuverability by one step.
-Improved Maneuverability, Draconomicon Prereqs: fly speed 15o ft, hover or wingover
-Improved Speed, has a prereq of Str 13 and dragon type
-Pectoral of maneuverability (which can be worn as a vest) - Draconomicon
-Spell Compendium; Cloud wings Increased Fly move by 30ft.

I just ripped out the best of the comments, please check the thread on your own and verify all information and sources.

[Thurbane]

How about becoming a Dragonborn Raptoran?

Gain:
+2 CON, -2 DEX
Dragonblood subtype
+2 dodge vs. dragons
Immunity to frightful presence
Draconic Aspect (wings would be redundant, as you retain your Raptoran ability to fly)
Language: draconic
Favored class: add Fighter , able to multiclass freely in Paladin

Lose:
Wing aided movement (?)
Pact with Wind Lords
Unerring direction
Low light vision
Weapon familiarity
Bonus to Climb and Spot

[pilvento]

How about becoming a Dragonborn Raptoran?

Gain:
+2 CON, -2 DEX
Dragonblood subtype
+2 dodge vs. dragons
Immunity to frightful presence
Draconic Aspect (wings would be redundant, as you retain your Raptoran ability to fly)
Language: draconic
Favored class: add Fighter , able to multiclass freely in Paladin

Lose:
Wing aided movement (?)
Pact with Wind Lords
Unerring direction
Low light vision
Weapon familiarity
Bonus to Climb and Spot

oh **** so im a half-dragon lion totem birdman....

NICE!