(3.5) [Bard PrC] Photographer (P.E.A.C.H.)

[Apalala]

Just something silly that I've been working on the last few days.

I'm really no good with forum formatting, so here's a link to the google document instead.

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfd7zxz_52g5fkzxgr

The main idea for the class is one that has a lot of fun options in and out of combat, and who can provide support to the party in interesting ways.

-edit: Putting the updated version of the class in the first post.

[Temotei]

My first thoughts are that you should make the class more open to other classes. Photography is a profession, first of all. If you want a prestige class for it, you should lower the prerequisites to allow even the lowly commoner to take it if they have the skills. Also, what's the requirement of Knowledge for? Kind of random. I'd recommend Appraise (Int), or maybe Spot (Wis).


Hit Die: 1d8

This should be "d8."


BAB: 3/4

This should be in the table.


Good Saves: Reflex, Will

Same as above.


Skill Points: 8+Int

I want more than 8 + Int skills total!...look at the PHB for references on formatting. It works.


Class Skills: Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Forgery, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (All skills, taken individually), Search, Spot, Spellcraft, Survival, Tumble, Use Rope, Use Magic Device

The PHB helps a lot. Include the ability scores that relate to each skill.


Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new photographer level is gained, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he added the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class in which he could cast 7th-level spells before he became an Photographer, he must decide to which class he adds each level of photographer for the purpose of determining spells per day.

So...this is useless? Bards can only cast up to 6th level spells...and this class is restricted to them as-is.


Magic Camera (SU)

Don't capitalize the "u" in "(Su)."


Snapshot (SU): As a standard action, the photographer may take the picture of one subject within medium. Make a knowledge roll with a bonus equal to your class level. With creatures, in addition to gleaning information about the creature, for every 4 points you beat the DC (10+HD), you gain a +1 insight bonus on all attack rolls. This insight bonus lasts for as long as you can see the subject, and is shared with all allies you explain it to. Reduce the bonus by 1/2 if the creature hears AND understands your explanation. You may identify magical items if you beat a DC of 10+item's caster level, but you may only make one knowledge roll per day for inanimate objects.

Don't capitalize the "u" in "(Su)." The first sentence should have "range" at the end of it. Capitalize Knowledge when it refers to the skill. On another note, I think the Knowledge check should be canned for a more "camera-person" feel.


Insightful Reflexes, Forceful Personality (EX): Photographers may use their intelligence modifier on reflex saves instead of dexterity, and charisma modifier on will saves instead of wisdom.

These should be separate entries. Don't capitalize the "x" in "(Ex)."


Group Photo (SU): Take one picture of up to ten subjects, including yourself. All subjects gain temporary hp equal to your class level plus twice your charisma modifier. Subjects can benefit from this once per hour, and temporary hp does not stack. The temporary hp fades after 24 hours.

Don't capitalize the "u" in "(Su)." This ability could easily be used over and over again over the course of the day to have permanent "temporary" hit points. Consider putting a limit to the amount of times you can do this in a day. Another suggestion would be to put in a system of "film," where the photographer would have to buy film, sort of like how an archer buys arrows. But even then, this ability could easily be used constantly.


Wide Angle: As a full round action that provokes attacks of oppurtunity, you may make a Snapshot at any number of creatures within a 60 foot cone.

Opportunity (bold for emphasis). Don't capitalize class features, unless it's in the ability's header. Put a hyphen between 60 and foot (60-foot). Is this ability extraordinary? Supernatural?


Viewfinder's Sight: When looking through the camera, you are affected as though by true seeing. All photos you take also are affected by true seeing. Looking through the camera is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity each round.

Each round? Just have it once, if at all. Also, this is a spell-like ability (Sp).


Level 5

Magic Exposures (SU): At 1st level, a photographer is able to magically alter the film. He begins knowing two special films, and can prepare one at the start of each day. Additional levels give access to more magical films. Each benefit may be shared verbally with an ally, but is negated if the subject hears and understands the explanation. In order to use a given benefit, you must declare its use before successfully taking one snapshot of the creature. Only one magic film may be used per picture, but multiple pictures can allow for multiple benefits.

* Highspeed: You do not provoke opportunity actions from the subject.
* Probing: The DC of the next will, fortitude, or reflex save you force the creature to make is increased by an amount equal to your insight bonus.
* Revealing: You may make critical hits and precision damage against the subject, regardless of any immunities.
* Focused: The threat range for all of your attacks increases by half your insight bonus, and you gain a bonus to melee and ranged damage rolls equal twice to your insight bonus.
* Flashy: If the subject is within 30 feet, it makes a reflex save (DC 10+1/2hd+charisma) or is blinded for one round.
* Distracting: The subject immediately provokes an attack of oppurtunity.


Magic Lenses (SU): At 2nd level, you gain either the Psychic or X-ray Lens. At 3rd level, you gain the other. At level 5, you gain the true seeing lens. Whenever you use your camera, you may only apply the effect of one lens, but you may change the lens as a free action. You can look through the lens of a camera for an extended period to benefit as from the effect, but doing so is a swift action that provokes an attack of opportunity each round.


* Detect Thoughts: As the spell. No saving throw. The subject's surface thoughts from the last ten minutes appear on the back of the photo.
* X-Ray: When looking through the lens, the photographer can see through solid objects and the resulting picture can see through anything the photographer wills it too.
* True Seeing: As the spell.

Umm...what? 5th level? Don't capitalize the "u" in "(Su)." Shouldn't flashy's DC be 10 + 1/2 class levels + Cha modifier?

Focused doesn't really make sense to me. Insight bonuses aren't all that common, and even if they were, it's annoying to have to cast a spell or have an item that grants an insight bonus to get the bonuses from this.

On saving throws, always capitalize Fortitude, Reflex, and Will.

Probing suffers the same problem as focused.

Opportunity is spelled wrong in distracting's entry.

Why does magic lenses cause attacks of opportunity each round? Also, why is it a swift action each round? It should be a swift action to look through, period. No following rounds should make you keep using up actions. Unless you want them to be concentrating while they're looking through. That would fit with the fluff, and it would prevent the quickening of spells.

[Apalala]

Thanks for the feedback! I'll get to work of the formatting errors soon.

"So...this is useless? Bards can only cast up to 6th level spells...and this class is restricted to them as-is."

Doh. I was lazy, so I simply copied that from the Archmage PrC on the srd without paying too much attention, since I was used to the +1 spellcasting being mostly the same. Will fix.

"Also, what's the requirement of Knowledge for? Kind of random."
"On another note, I think the Knowledge check should be canned for a more "camera-person" feel."

The knowledge skills are pretty much the cornerstone of the class. Using the right knowledge skill for the core ability, Snapshot, gives you the insight bonus to attack rolls. Those same bonuses are then used for the bonuses that Exposures have. So, in combat, a photographer takes a picture. He learns a lot of information about the target, gets a bonus to attack rolls and whatever effect from the exposure he was using, and then he can share those bonuses with the rest of the party. The more pictures he takes, the more bonuses he can share.

"This ability could easily be used over and over again over the course of the day to have permanent "temporary" hit points. Consider putting a limit to the amount of times you can do this in a day. Another suggestion would be to put in a system of "film," where the photographer would have to buy film, sort of like how an archer buys arrows. But even then, this ability could easily be used constantly."

I'm not very fond of bookkeeping. The once per hour effect is already pretty limiting, I think. Being able to use it twice in an adventuring day would be relatively uncommon, and four times exceedingly rare.

"Each round? Just have it once, if at all. Also, this is a spell-like ability (Sp)."

Imagine someone is in a life and death battle, and he's looking through a lens. He's really asking to be hit.

Also, seems that's an older version. I've reworded a few things since then and added in two new bard spells since then.

Again, thanks for the feedback, I'll get to work right now.

[Shyftir]

Don't re-correct someone every time they make the same mistake!

Yes, mention that they should only capitalize the S in (Su), but you don't have to say so 7 times in one post! /hyperbole.

Sorry, that was probably not very useful to the OP.

/rant

[Mulletmanalive]

I'm a mite unclear as to how precisely "magic films" are used. The Snapshot ability itself seems to imply that they can be used ad nauseum but the statement "ready each day" makes it sound otherwise.

If we were talking about photographic plates, a reasonably generous reading would be to treat the camera as what amounts to a heavy Crossbow [with the same Rapid Reload option].

Also, i would have thought that Profession [Photographer] would have been a much more suitable skill to use than Knowledge. The bonus that you hand out for the Snapshot ability is very high and slightly fiddly. It might be simpler to change it to 1/2 class level rounded up or class level on a successful roll, either that or make it something like +2 per 10 the check was passed by. That said, i can't see why a photo would grant attack bonuses. Save penalties, yes, but not attack bonuses...

I like the idea, it's just far more Bard and not enough Speed-Grapher for me at the moment.

[Apalala]

I'm a mite unclear as to how precisely "magic films" are used. The Snapshot ability itself seems to imply that they can be used ad nauseum but the statement "ready each day" makes it sound otherwise.

If we were talking about photographic plates, a reasonably generous reading would be to treat the camera as what amounts to a heavy Crossbow [with the same Rapid Reload option].

Also, i would have thought that Profession [Photographer] would have been a much more suitable skill to use than Knowledge. The bonus that you hand out for the Snapshot ability is very high and slightly fiddly. It might be simpler to change it to 1/2 class level rounded up or class level on a successful roll, either that or make it something like +2 per 10 the check was passed by. That said, i can't see why a photo would grant attack bonuses. Save penalties, yes, but not attack bonuses...

I like the idea, it's just far more Bard and not enough Speed-Grapher for me at the moment.

Sorry if it's a bit unclear right now. The way they work is that you know how to make so many different films. Each day, you select a few of those, and then you can use those at will for the entire day.

Profession (Photographer) is probably a much better fit for the class, and it does make it much more accessible to the other classes. As for the bonuses being too high, the profession check is generally hd+3+wisdom+charisma versus HD+10. Assuming you were the same level, had 16 charisma and wisdom, you would still need to roll a 5 or higher to get a bonus, and the maximum bonus would be +5. There aren't any magic items I know of that boost profession checks, and pumping up charisma and wisdom will still keep the bonuses within reason, since you would need +8 to the stats for one +1 insight bonus.

http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfd7zxz_52g5fkzxgr

I've revised the class accordingly, and made a few other changes. I've dropped bardic knowledge as a prerequisite and opened up the PrC to everyone, as well as giving it sneak attack progression. Flipside is that the spellcasting only adds to bard spellcasting levels, so it's not attractive at all to the full casters.

[Temotei]

Don't re-correct someone every time they make the same mistake!

Yes, mention that they should only capitalize the S in (Su), but you don't have to say so 7 times in one post! /hyperbole.

Sorry, that was probably not very useful to the OP.

/rant

I did that because people often seem to miss the little things in my long posts. When I restate them annoyingly, they don't forget. :smallamused:

[Mulletmanalive]

Ok, well, i'm liking this much more with the alteration.

The Psychic Lens, i think, should have a save allowed: passing the save would yield garbled and difficult to read material, which failing it would have things rather clear, if rambling.

I'd also have it take a Full action to reset the lens: it's an impossibly labourious process with my dad's 1980s Leika, i can't imagine what it might be like if gnomes built the thing. Also, a free action change basically negates the "only one at a time" rule.

One suggestion is that maybe you could have two kinds of camera, the basic, slow loading one, and a sort of "repeater crossbow" camera [take a look at those rules for inspiration], possibly as an alternative to one of the lenses... or maybe a capstone: shorter ranged but faster operation.

I was considering making a prestige class based on this for my Victoriana game; you seem to have saved me a lot of the trouble...

Formatting: please change all references to "Insight bonus" in the film descriptions to "Snapshot bonus" as this will eliminate the confusion expressed by one of the previous posters.

[Apalala]

Ok, well, i'm liking this much more with the alteration.

The Psychic Lens, i think, should have a save allowed: passing the save would yield garbled and difficult to read material, which failing it would have things rather clear, if rambling.

I'd also have it take a Full action to reset the lens: it's an impossibly labourious process with my dad's 1980s Leika, i can't imagine what it might be like if gnomes built the thing. Also, a free action change basically negates the "only one at a time" rule.

One suggestion is that maybe you could have two kinds of camera, the basic, slow loading one, and a sort of "repeater crossbow" camera [take a look at those rules for inspiration], possibly as an alternative to one of the lenses... or maybe a capstone: shorter ranged but faster operation.

I was considering making a prestige class based on this for my Victoriana game; you seem to have saved me a lot of the trouble...

Formatting: please change all references to "Insight bonus" in the film descriptions to "Snapshot bonus" as this will eliminate the confusion expressed by one of the previous posters.

Detect Thoughts is something that the wizard can get at level 3. I think a slightly beefier version is within reason. Full Round Action for the lens sounds fine. The reason I had it as a free action is that the camera isn't really a physical thing so much as something you magically conjure, kind of like a Soulknife's mindblade. I suppose the cameras could be physical constructs, but I don't like the idea of them having to rely so much on something that can easily be taken away or destroyed. Up in the air.

Added "from Snapshot" after the insight bonuses.

[Mulletmanalive]

I think i just like the idea of finding some completely unconnected thoughts on the back of the photo rather than useful information.

"My dearest Petunia, how i miss you..."

Another possibility is a lens that stuns ghosts/incorporeal stuff, or at least allows it to be targetted with stun, daze etc.

[Apalala]

Another possibility is a lens that stuns ghosts/incorporeal stuff, or at least allows it to be targetted with stun, daze etc.

That seems rather circumstantial for a class feature with limited options to pick from. I dunno. Maybe.

[Mulletmanalive]

It's the whole "photos steal the soul" thing. Maybe it would be better as a Magic Film?

Possibly save or be trapped inside a picture for one round or something. Not hugely powerful but it would certainly thin numbers briefly in multi-threat encounters. Maybe even a duration = Cha bonus or something...

[Apalala]

It's the whole "photos steal the soul" thing. Maybe it would be better as a Magic Film?

Possibly save or be trapped inside a picture for one round or something. Not hugely powerful but it would certainly thin numbers briefly in multi-threat encounters. Maybe even a duration = Cha bonus or something...

Trapping foes inside a photo does sound interesting. I'll need to think about that for a while.

[Debihuman]

Magic Exposures (Su): At 1st level, a photographer is able to magically alter the film. He begins knowing two special films, and can prepare one at the start of each day...


This ability doesn't show up until 4th level but you state that it starts at first level. Which is correct?

Debby

[Temotei]

Magic Lenses (SU): At 2nd level,

You have it under the 4th level.


Magic Exposures (SU): At 1st level,

Same.

I still think Knowledge is kind of out-of-place for the class. It kind of makes sense when you think of it as taking a picture and learning about the creature for bonuses, but when you think about it, wouldn't Profession (photographer) be better? Also...three Knowledge skills with nine ranks? Why not just one or two? Maybe one Knowledge skill and Profession (photographer) could be the prerequisites?

Lastly, bold some stuff. Hit die, skill points, class skills, alignment, and every ability should be bold. BAB and saves should be included in the table, but not outside. If it's in the table, players and DMs don't need a separate thing wasting space telling them the exact same thing they read in the table.

[Apalala]

Updated the the first post with the revised version of the class. Makes things clearer.

"I still think Knowledge is kind of out-of-place for the class. It kind of makes sense when you think of it as taking a picture and learning about the creature for bonuses, but when you think about it, wouldn't Profession (photographer) be better?"

Indeed.

[Debihuman]

You have an overabundance of skills. Most of these skills have nothing to do with the photographer prestige class.

Here is a list of skills that I think are relevant. The others aren't really necessary to taking pictures.

Class Skills: The photographer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Photographer) (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).

A photographer isn't going to appraise anything other than photos so this really is a useless skill. Balance isn't really necessary (isn't that what a tripod is for?). Class skills should be directly related to the tasks at hand. Unless you have camera traps, disable device is hardly a factor in taking a picture. Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Jump, Open Lock and Sense Motive didn't strike me as relevant skills. Do you have to care what your subject thinks as long as the photo looks good?

Speak language isn't relevant neither is Swim nor Tumble (bad for cameras and hard to line up a shot while tumbling). Why use rope? Do you tie up things to be photgraphed on a regular basis?

The distilled list is as follows:

Class Skills: The photographer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Photographer) (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).

Bluff: "Why sir of course you want your photo taken (for a price); decipher script: to read orders, notes on the backs of photos or writing in the photos themselves; diplomacy: for handling customers who aren't satisified with the way they look in the photo; Move Silently: for photographing creatures that spook easily; Sleight of Hand: to entertain difficult children so you can present a decent photograph to their parents; Spot: to get the best lighting for a photo or find the best models; and use magic device: magical lenses, magical cameras, etc.

Debby

[Temotei]

You have an overabundance of skills. Most of these skills have nothing to do with the photographer prestige class.

Here is a list of skills that I think are relevant. The others aren't really necessary to taking pictures.

Class Skills: The photographer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Photographer) (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).

A photographer isn't going to appraise anything other than photos so this really is a useless skill. Balance isn't really necessary (isn't that what a tripod is for?). Class skills should be directly related to the tasks at hand. Unless you have camera traps, disable device is hardly a factor in taking a picture. Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Jump, Open Lock and Sense Motive didn't strike me as relevant skills. Do you have to care what your subject thinks as long as the photo looks good?

Speak language isn't relevant neither is Swim nor Tumble (bad for cameras and hard to line up a shot while tumbling). Why use rope? Do you tie up things to be photgraphed on a regular basis?

The distilled list is as follows:

Class Skills: The photographer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Photographer) (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).

Bluff: "Why sir of course you want your photo taken (for a price); decipher script: to read orders, notes on the backs of photos or writing in the photos themselves; diplomacy: for handling customers who aren't satisified with the way they look in the photo; Move Silently: for photographing creatures that spook easily; Sleight of Hand: to entertain difficult children so you can present a decent photograph to their parents; Spot: to get the best lighting for a photo or find the best models; and use magic device: magical lenses, magical cameras, etc.

Debby

I can agree with all of this, except I think Disguise can remain, and the class could maybe give a bonus to Appraise checks for photos if you really wanted. Imagine a historic setting of WWII, where if you were a photographer trying to capture the concentration camps, you'd either have to be a soldier, a special guest (which would be pretty difficult to be, I would guess), or disguised as someone special or as a soldier. Then again, that might be stretching it a bit...or not. :smallsigh:

[Apalala]

You have an overabundance of skills. Most of these skills have nothing to do with the photographer prestige class.

Here is a list of skills that I think are relevant. The others aren't really necessary to taking pictures.

Class Skills: The photographer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Photographer) (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).

A photographer isn't going to appraise anything other than photos so this really is a useless skill. Balance isn't really necessary (isn't that what a tripod is for?). Class skills should be directly related to the tasks at hand. Unless you have camera traps, disable device is hardly a factor in taking a picture. Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Jump, Open Lock and Sense Motive didn't strike me as relevant skills. Do you have to care what your subject thinks as long as the photo looks good?

Speak language isn't relevant neither is Swim nor Tumble (bad for cameras and hard to line up a shot while tumbling). Why use rope? Do you tie up things to be photgraphed on a regular basis?

The distilled list is as follows:

Class Skills: The photographer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Photographer) (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Use Magic Device (Cha).

Bluff: "Why sir of course you want your photo taken (for a price); decipher script: to read orders, notes on the backs of photos or writing in the photos themselves; diplomacy: for handling customers who aren't satisified with the way they look in the photo; Move Silently: for photographing creatures that spook easily; Sleight of Hand: to entertain difficult children so you can present a decent photograph to their parents; Spot: to get the best lighting for a photo or find the best models; and use magic device: magical lenses, magical cameras, etc.

Debby

I used the skill list for the Arcane Trickster, because I'm lazy and that was the prestige class closest to the concept. The photographer isn't just someone who snaps family portraits. He's an adventurer in his own rights. I'm not sure they all need to be justified, but sure. Here goes.

Appraise: The photographer has to have both a taste for aesthetics and a critical eye that can spot a fake.

Balance: You don't bring a knife to a gunfight, and you don't bring a tripod to a battle with a beholder.

Disable Device: If someone wants to keep you away, that's all the more reason you should get in there and take a look.

Climb, Jump: Unusual angles taken from hard to reach locations are quite dynamic. Just ask that kid, Peter Parker.

Sense Motive: You don't want them distorting their face with a fake smile, do you?

Escape Artist: Natural troublemaker, easy to make enemies. Being able to get away is vital.

Swim: How else will you photograph the mermaid?

Tumble: Given the choice between snapping a photo while performing an acrobatic stunt and landing flat on your face, I'll take the upright position.

Use Rope, Open Lock, and Speak Languages: Who really cares whether or not it has these?