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View Full Version : [D&D 4e] The Ardent, Psionic Leader



Aron Times
2009-12-15, 10:48 AM
Wizards has posted the Ardent (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drfe/20091215b) for DDI subscribers, and I'm starting this thread for the Playground to talk about it. A brief summary:

1. It is a melee class.
2. Its primary stat is charisma, and its secondary stats are constitution and wisdom.
3. It does not have encounter attack powers, instead getting augmentable at-wills at the appropriate levels like a psion.
4. It uses power points.
5. The fluff describes it as the emotional counterpart to the logical psion, basically a melee version of the 3.5 wilder.

Although I'm a big fan of the psion, I'm not a big fan of the ardent. I'll be sticking to my tactical warlord and his ludicrously high attack buffs.

Discuss.

Saintjebus
2009-12-15, 11:31 AM
what role does it play? You said it's melee, but is it a defender? a striker? a leader?

Kaiser Omnik
2009-12-15, 11:32 AM
It's a psionic leader. It's actually described as "a psionic warlord". Seems to be specialized in buffing and, to a lesser degree, debuffing. I never played a warlord, so I can't say if the new class looks more or less effective.

Personally, I would have preferred it to be even more like the 3.5 Ardent.

Optimystik
2009-12-15, 11:39 AM
Personally, I would have preferred it to be even more like the 3.5 Ardent.

At first read I thought that as well, but then I realized this class has definite potential. The Wilder wasn't distinct enough from the Psion flavorwise, and was a lot weaker mechanically. This is kind of like a Wilder/Thrallherd, and the name "Ardent" still fits.

Maybe we'll still get a class that self-actualizes their philosophy through psionics - and that will be the "Erudite."

Kaiser Omnik
2009-12-15, 11:42 AM
At first read I thought that as well, but then I realized this class has definite potential. The Wilder wasn't distinct enough from the Psion flavorwise, and was a lot weaker mechanically. This is kind of like a Wilder/Thrallherd, and the name "Ardent" still fits.

Maybe we'll still get a class that self-actualizes their philosophy through psionics - and that will be the "Erudite."

I agree about the Wilder. The new Ardent certainly doesn't look bad, and I would probably even try playing one. I also like the fluff they have created for the psionic power source, the fight against Far Realm entities and that sort of stuff.

Draz74
2009-12-15, 12:11 PM
Yeah, I think this actually sounds quite promising.

While I'm a big fan of the 3e Ardent, there's one reason they couldn't just port it over into 4e: it would be exactly the same as the Cleric, except for "Power Source: Psionic."

As Optimystik says, the word "Ardent" is still appropriate for a Wilder-like character ... certainly a much cooler class name than "Wilder." Which is an adjective, not a noun. :smalltongue:

If I ever actually play in a 4e campaign (that actually allows non-PHB1 material), I think I really want to go Psionic of some sort. This stuff just keeps getting better and better.

EDIT: Meh, I guess "ardent" is actually an adjective rather than a noun, too. Oh well, at least it's not a comparative adjective.

Mando Knight
2009-12-15, 01:22 PM
Also released today: some love for Ki Focuses. 'bout damn time, I say.

I like the Ardent so far as I've read. Looks like an interesting class. Though, really, did the Kalashtar and Dragonborn need another Leader class they're good at? :smalltongue:

Yakk
2009-12-15, 01:28 PM
Wait -- are you saying that Charisma is over represented among leaders?

Say it isn't so!

Mando Knight
2009-12-15, 01:34 PM
One of the Ardent's preview Paragon Paths cemented this class in my mind as the "Jedi Leader" class. Talaric Strategist's quote-blurb-thing states right out "Your thoughts betray you." Just hand the guy a Brilliant Energy Bastard Sword already, sheesh! :smalltongue:

Aron Times
2009-12-15, 03:25 PM
All we need now is the psionic defender, which is probably the Battlemind hinted at in Dragon.

Kurald Galain
2009-12-15, 03:37 PM
Wait -- are you saying that Charisma is over represented among leaders?
Aaaannd here's the Bully (martial leader)!

Browbeat, bully encounter 1
You punch a follower in the ribs, compelling him to walk faster.
Target: one ally
Effect: deal 3 damage to the target, and he gains a bonus to speed equal to your strength modifier until the end of your next turn.

Gamerlord
2009-12-15, 03:46 PM
I never cared much for the psionic power source, I prefer martial or shadow, and I can't wait for this rumored "Elemental" power source I keep hearing about.

Mando Knight
2009-12-15, 03:48 PM
It's dead. Arcane killed it and took its stuff. See also: Sorcerer.

Gamerlord
2009-12-15, 04:08 PM
It's dead. Arcane killed it and took its stuff. See also: Sorcerer.

Oh yeah, but then what will be in the PHB5, if we ever get that far? :smallconfused: Every new handbook has had it's "Shiny new power source!".

Artanis
2009-12-15, 04:33 PM
Oh yeah, but then what will be in the PHB5, if we ever get that far? :smallconfused: Every new handbook has had it's "Shiny new power source!".

I'm sure they'll think of something :smallwink:

Gralamin
2009-12-15, 04:38 PM
It's dead. Arcane killed it and took its stuff. See also: Sorcerer.

Haven't seen that confirmed, but quite possible. The last time they killed a source though (Ki), they posted a large article on why.

As for the Ardent, it is a bit strange. It's main focus, buff wise, is probably mobility, and to a greater degree then the Bard.
I think the class is interesting, but in all likely hood, I'd prefer the elation path to this one.

erikun
2009-12-15, 04:39 PM
Huh, guess it won't be called the Empath after all. (Unless that is reserved for Dark Sun.)

Am I the only one who finds Charisma/Wisdom to be a bad idea on a class? Unless one of the stats adds to AC, you're looking at heavy armor and only one good save. Just like laser Clerics, and CHAladins. I guess I'm just wondering why we don't have another Constitution-based class. Perhaps the "Battlemind" will be, although I'm predicting being disappointed in that regard.

The ability scores for the Psionic classes seem all over the place.

Artanis
2009-12-15, 04:40 PM
Haven't seen that confirmed, but quite possible. The last time they killed a source though (Ki), they posted a large article on why.

I was sure I had seen them actually say as much somewhere, but since I don't remember where, well...


But still, I do know that the previews and such listed the Sorcerer as being one of the Elemental classes. That the Sorcerer is Arcane is at least a decent indication that Arcane did indeed "take its stuff".



Edit: Addendum


Huh, guess it won't be called the Empath after all. (Unless that is reserved for Dark Sun.)

Am I the only one who finds Charisma/Wisdom to be a bad idea on a class? Unless one of the stats adds to AC, you're looking at heavy armor and only one good save. Just like laser Clerics, and CHAladins. I guess I'm just wondering why we don't have another Constitution-based class. Perhaps the "Battlemind" will be, although I'm predicting being disappointed in that regard.

The ability scores for the Psionic classes seem all over the place.

I don't find CHA/WIS on a class to be a bad idea because it's only one aspect of the class. Every class has strengths and weaknesses, and being based on stats that add to the same defense is just one of the Ardent's.

Zovc
2009-12-15, 04:41 PM
As Optimystik says, the word "Ardent" is still appropriate for a Wilder-like character ... certainly a much cooler class name than "Wilder." Which is an adjective, not a noun. :smalltongue:

Not to be rude, but I don't know how familiar with English you are.

"Er" is a suffix that means "One who (does/is)."

A runner is "One who does run," or "One who runs." A fighter is "One who does fight," or "One who fights."

A Wilder is "One who is wild."

At least, that's the way I look at it.

Artanis
2009-12-15, 04:43 PM
Not to be rude, but I don't know how familiar with English you are.

"Er" is a suffix that means "One who (does/is)."

A runner is "One who does run," or "One who runs." A fighter is "One who does fight," or "One who fights."

A Wilder is "One who is wild."

At least, that's the way I look at it.

To be fair, English is a pretty screwed-up language.

Example: G-H-O-T-I can be pronounced "fish" :smalleek:

Gralamin
2009-12-15, 04:44 PM
Not to be rude, but I don't know how familiar with English you are.

"Er" is a suffix that means "One who (does/is)."

A runner is "One who does run," or "One who runs." A fighter is "One who does fight," or "One who fights."

A Wilder is "One who is wild."

At least, that's the way I look at it.

Except for things like Faster, Stronger, etc. English is weird and doesn't make sense.

hamishspence
2009-12-15, 04:44 PM
"Wilder: One who...wilds"?

His comment appeared to be a joke on how the normal use of the world wild is as an adjective:

"That forest appeared pretty wild, but this forest is wilder"

Zovc
2009-12-15, 04:46 PM
Freakin' liberal arts...

...as you were.

Artanis
2009-12-15, 04:48 PM
Freakin' liberal arts...

...as you were.

I'm a math guy :smallwink:

hamishspence
2009-12-15, 04:50 PM
Physics.

But very keen reader anyway.

Sometimes usual arrangement of words can be played with- I haven't seen the construction "weirding" outside of Dune, but I liked it.

Zovc
2009-12-15, 04:53 PM
Sometimes usual arrangement of words can be played with- I haven't seen the construction "weirding" outside of Dune, but I liked it.

They have a magic card called "Warren Weirding."

Optimystik
2009-12-15, 04:57 PM
Accountant here :smalltongue:


They have a magic card called "Warren Weirding."

And the classic, which a true Magic grognard would have mentioned first - Zur's Weirding!

*harrumphs*

Kaiser Omnik
2009-12-15, 05:03 PM
Haven't seen that confirmed, but quite possible. The last time they killed a source though (Ki), they posted a large article on why.

As for the Ardent, it is a bit strange. It's main focus, buff wise, is probably mobility, and to a greater degree then the Bard.
I think the class is interesting, but in all likely hood, I'd prefer the elation path to this one.

Wasn't Elemental going to be tied to the Primordials? I read somewhere that elemental powers would be known as "transmutations", but it wasn't something written by a WotC employee.

Gamerlord
2009-12-15, 05:05 PM
Haven't seen that confirmed, but quite possible. The last time they killed a source though (Ki), they posted a large article on why.



I didn't see that article, link?

Zovc
2009-12-15, 05:07 PM
And the classic, which a true Magic grognard would have mentioned first - Zur's Weirding!

*harrumphs*

I remember the card's name now that you mention it, but I didn't really play magic until Lorwyn block. I've owned cards from as early as ice age (although I got them within the last few years)--the earliest time-appropriate cards I've owned are from sixth edition (obtained along with the starter set that had the awesome tutorial CD).

Tutorial Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktZNqMxfywI)
Tutorial Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KufWLkPxrKc)
Tutorial Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUtGCeSoYi4)

Also, I haven't seriously touched Magic in a while.

Also, I'm no longer going to be off topic in this thread, I'm done!

Gralamin
2009-12-15, 05:19 PM
I didn't see that article, link?

Sure (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/2009may). Quite an interesting read.

Gamerlord
2009-12-15, 06:32 PM
Sure (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/2009may). Quite an interesting read.

Thank you very much.

Asbestos
2009-12-15, 08:03 PM
Though, really, did the Kalashtar and Dragonborn need another Leader class they're good at? :smalltongue:

Play a Dragonborn if you want to:
Be a Psionic Dragon Man.

CarpeGuitarrem
2009-12-15, 08:48 PM
Wasn't Elemental going to be tied to the Primordials? I read somewhere that elemental powers would be known as "transmutations", but it wasn't something written by a WotC employee.
FullMetal Alchemist much?

The class sounds interesting, though. Psionics (with the exception of the monk-shoved-in-there) is turning out to be a very interesting power source.

Shadow_Elf
2009-12-15, 10:17 PM
FullMetal Alchemist much?

The class sounds interesting, though. Psionics (with the exception of the monk-shoved-in-there) is turning out to be a very interesting power source.

You don't think the monk is interesting? I think the full discipline mechanic is wonderful, personally, and really quite innovative.

Draz74
2009-12-15, 11:54 PM
Not to be rude, but I don't know how familiar with English you are.
:smallconfused: Native speaker, and minored in English in college. My English proficiency doesn't get criticized very often.

(Majored in Physics, btw.)


"Er" is a suffix that means "One who (does/is)."

A runner is "One who does run," or "One who runs." A fighter is "One who does fight," or "One who fights."

A Wilder is "One who is wild."

That would all make sense ... if Wild was a verb, as Fight and Run are.


The class sounds interesting, though. Psionics (with the exception of the monk-shoved-in-there) is turning out to be a very interesting power source.

Huh. Making the Monk psionic is, like, on my Top 5 List of good ideas in 4e.

Mando Knight
2009-12-16, 12:09 AM
Just realized something: Charisma-based Leader who buffs and debuffs everyone around him by manipulating emotions?

JUST WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK WE ARE?!?

http://kumakorner.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/kamina.jpg

Artanis
2009-12-16, 12:43 AM
*uses three full rounds to draw his sword*

:smallbiggrin:

HealthKit
2009-12-16, 12:43 AM
Oh yeah, but then what will be in the PHB5, if we ever get that far? :smallconfused: Every new handbook has had it's "Shiny new power source!".


I'm sure they'll think of something :smallwink:

Seriously, every new power source will be an excuse for a new "Fill-in-the-blank POWER" book.

Until they run out ideas...
Then it's 4.5!

Kurald Galain
2009-12-16, 03:08 AM
Wasn't Elemental going to be tied to the Primordials? I read somewhere that elemental powers would be known as "transmutations", but it wasn't something written by a WotC employee.

It's not a given that the elemental power source is still going to be printed, given how as nobody has so far been able to make a meaningful distinction between elemental and either arcane or primal. Note that ki has already been scrapped for largely the same reason.

Kaiser Omnik
2009-12-16, 09:46 AM
Seriously, every new power source will be an excuse for a new "Fill-in-the-blank POWER" book.

Until they run out ideas...
Then it's 4.5!

Overused and poor argument. They would continue publishing books even with less power sources. What should they do, publish only the core books and then have no earnings for years? Why is that so bad that a company sells many books every year? How are the new builds, powers and feats not an interesting addition to the game? If you think that they should focus on creating new, original mechanics, then why would 4.5 (which won't happen) be bad?

Seriously, this argument was already poor a year ago.
If your post was actually sarcasm, then nevermind.


It's not a given that the elemental power source is still going to be printed, given how as nobody has so far been able to make a meaningful distinction between elemental and either arcane or primal. Note that ki has already been scrapped for largely the same reason.

I completely agree. I simply wonder why WotC wouldn't have made the same kind of announcement about the scrapping of the elemental power source. Maybe they are still brainstorming to try and make the idea work?

Gamerlord
2009-12-16, 02:36 PM
I completely agree. I simply wonder why WotC wouldn't have made the same kind of announcement about the scrapping of the elemental power source. Maybe they are still brainstorming to try and make the idea work?

I had an idea for an elemental striker, he sacrifices his own well being( Losing hit points and weakening his defenses and all that) to debuff and deal massive amounts of damage to his foes. I'm sure the elemental power source, if any, will function like a wild magic sorcerer or like the above idea.

DabblerWizard
2009-12-16, 05:01 PM
I approve of psion anything. :smallcool:

TedEBearNC
2009-12-16, 05:16 PM
Oh yeah, but then what will be in the PHB5, if we ever get that far? :smallconfused: Every new handbook has had it's "Shiny new power source!".


It will be the "Little Finger" power source. You know.. "I have more power in my little finger..." :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:

erikun
2009-12-16, 05:19 PM
It will be the "Little Finger" power source. You know.. "I have more power in my little finger..." :smalltongue::smallbiggrin:
What about the Shining Finger (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnVCYOUB0gY) power source? :smalltongue:

Yakk
2009-12-16, 05:20 PM
4.5 "will happen", in that they will issue an errata-updated version of the original PHB. It will be called PHB 1, second printing, or something like that.

Some people who own PHB 1 will buy it.

Drammel
2009-12-16, 05:35 PM
4.5 "will happen", in that they will issue an errata-updated version of the original PHB. It will be called PHB 1, second printing, or something like that.

Some people who own PHB 1 will buy it.

Isn't that what they did with the Special Edition PHB1 with the leather cover?