Time to think... Hurry up!

[quiet1mi]

Hey guys, I was thinking about writing a fast past adventure for my friends. The only problem is, in a given 6 seconds (1 round) how long do the players sit there and think about their option... How long can a Wizard contemplate about which spell to cast in a single round...

To solve this problem, I came up with the following rule: In a stressful situation where the timeframe is measured in rounds, you have X amount of time to think during your round, where X equals your intelligence score...

This way a more intelligent character's mind works faster and is able to think critically in an apparently a short amount of time, While a fighter with 8 Int won't be able to come up with more than 8 seconds worth of thought in 6 seconds...

To an Extreme, Animals will only use simplistic actions because they only have 1-3 seconds to think... thus if they have a plan, they tend to stick to it all the time...

With this rule, gameplay will hopefully speed up in a realistic fashion...

[Shademan]

mmmh.... I would have it be either INT or WIS. whichever is higher. apart from that, like the idea

[Temet Nosce]

I like the idea of speeding things up, and I agree that more intelligent characters can easily use the time better, but well... players aren't their characters. To properly RP them it might take the player a while to come up with the course of action their character would most likely take. Oh, and also it might take me longer than 18 seconds just to state my actions for the round.

[drengnikrafe]

You could (if you wanted to write some conversions) use the 2e method of inititive. Decide your action in a fairly short period of time (DM decides how long), roll for order of actions. After that round ends, do it again.

I say this because one of the key problems of keeping characters on their toes is that they have everyone else's actions to think about their own. However, if you're not looking to make actions more likely to be real, and instead just increasing the game's pace... it's a pretty good idea.

[Shademan]

well, the DM have to give some leeway, like giving you 18 seconds to plan(he have a stopwatch) when yer time is up he says TIMESUP! and you explain what you do. if you stall for to long you loose your turn

[Optimystik]

It sounds like a nerf to melee to me... of course, they also have less options, so it may even out.

[erikun]

To solve this problem, I came up with the following rule: In a stressful situation where the timeframe is measured in rounds, you have X amount of time to think during your round, where X equals your intelligence score...
What happens if they don't? Do they delay? Go defensive? Do nothing?

What happens if the player (or DM) isn't 100% sure about what a spell or ability will do? Whose responsibility is it to be sure that actions are valid? At my table, it's the player's responsibility to ensure that he is casting a valid spell at a valid target. If he only has 30 seconds to respond, though, he might just toss whatever spell looks handy, even if it shouldn't actually work. (Three rounds after realizing that Charm Person doesn't work on Ogres is a bit late to rewind.)

Are you actually going to sit there with a stopwatch? Does joking around count? Does using the bathroom?

[Kaun]

i use a rule similar to this in my 4E game i have been running for ages now.

All players have 15 seconds from the time it becomes there turn to state the basics of there action or they miss there turn.

The players seem to love it cos it keeps things moving quickly and combat dosent end draging on to much.

I started using it because i was sick of having to re-explain everything that was happening in the combat to every player at the start of there turn because they had been distracted or not paying enough attention.

Very few times have the players actualy failed to state there action in the given time. My players now more then often have there action pre planed before it comes to there turn and only really change there mind if there is a drastic change on the battle field.

[Optimystik]

Are you actually going to sit there with a stopwatch? Does joking around count? Does using the bathroom?

You could use a "chess clock" for this - slap the button whenever they take too long. Very loud ticking to keep them aware.

[Myrmex]

You nerds sure love intelligence. I would use BAB + 1/2 their wisdom score. Just because you're smart doesn't mean you handle pressure well.

[quiet1mi]

hey, we nerds love a high charisma score too...:smallamused:

[Mikeavelli]

You could (if you wanted to write some conversions) use the 2e method of inititive. Decide your action in a fairly short period of time (DM decides how long), roll for order of actions. After that round ends, do it again.

I say this because one of the key problems of keeping characters on their toes is that they have everyone else's actions to think about their own. However, if you're not looking to make actions more likely to be real, and instead just increasing the game's pace... it's a pretty good idea.

Eh, I had a DM who tried to do this. It lasted for about half of one combat, because we all hated it so much.

sacrificing ease of play for the sake of more realism only works if your entire group actually enjoys things like that.

[drengnikrafe]

Eh, I had a DM who tried to do this. It lasted for about half of one combat, because we all hated it so much.

sacrificing ease of play for the sake of more realism only works if your entire group actually enjoys things like that.

To be fair... When I DMed using this style, it lasted for about one half of one combat because it was a pain to keep track of properly, and I kept forgetting things. But, it's theoretically good to try at least once, and know how much it's improved.

[Ridureyu]

I hate to say it, but 99% of the time this falls under, "Help! My DM is insane!"

[kemmotar]

you have to keep in mind that sometimes, the player might need to review what the spell does, check range, look at secondary effects etc, which a wizard would know from memory while the player won't remember all the details...

However, it would be unfair to apply this only to wizards. If you're doing it for RP application then give them a 1 minute time limit, max. That way they have the time they need to check on anything they need, check distances, these things the character would know instinctively., the player must check maps, look at entries, possibly search books. If you have very organised players, you can reduce the time accordingly. Though I would think the main problem would be to prevent them from excessive OOC planning...

[kjones]

You're really addressing two separate issues. You want characters to perform actions in combat more commensurate with their intelligence scores, and you want to speed up combat. I'm not really sure how to address the former issue beyond general advice for improving role-playing, but I deal with the latter simply by telling players to hurry up when they're taking "too long", as opposed to imposing a hard-and-fast time limit. I wouldn't want to have to deal with the logistics of timing.

[Vorpalbob]

I usually don't care too much how long things take, but if players are taking 1.5-2 minutes a turn, I bring out the 30-second hourglass. If the sand runs out and the player still hasn't decided on a course of action, they have to immediately attack in melee or forfeit their turn.

On a similar note, for rulebook searching, I allow 1.5 minutes. after that point, they must put the book down (and keep looking after their turn) and whatever they were looking up becomes moot until their next turn.

[Anonymouswizard]

Do you have space hulk? get out the timer. The timer lasts for 3 minutes, and as long as sand remains in the timer they can ponder their action. As soon as the sand is gin the bottom start counting to 10 whenever they pause in explaining what to do. However, if they are rolling do not count. If you get to 10, to late, they did not have time to think and so are planning their next move and parrying. The time limit is for everybody, so if the fist person doesn't need to think they can give the others time to react to consequences.

[Lioness]

I dislike timed combat, mostly because I'm a newbie, and 70% of the time, have no idea exactly what implications X spell has. I want to be able to check with my DM at the start of my turn 'Hey, if I do that, it's going to hit someone else, right?' and now have him saying 'Yes, yes it is. Hurry up and tell me what you're going to do'

I freeze up and sort of think 'hang on, you've just shot down my planned action, and you want me to tell you a back up plan straight away!? Argh!'

It irks my sense of stability, and control. I like control. I don't like to be told 'think fast or else you skip your turn'. I know it's not realistic, but so be it. I suck at gaming. Final Fantasy 10 is the only video game I'm any good at. Guess why? It allows me time to thing. I tried FF8...epic fail. FF12 was slightly better, but not much.

Having said that, most D&D players I play with are really good at the 'think fast!' sort of games, so they don't have a problem with it. It's just a personal irk of mine. If the characters are progressing through the combat slowly, give them a 'hey guys, move it a long a bit, yeah?', and if they continue, bite them. But gah. Just...yeah.

[Zom B]

Similar thoughts have already been posted, but just thought I'd chime in here. The player is not the character. The character may have Scorching Ray prepared, but at his level, how many rays does he get? The character knows, but the player may not. Does this spell have spell resistance or no? Wait, is the spell's range long enough to hit that guy 50' away or do I need to move?

If you take other peoples' turns to look up the spells, you face the situation that when you come out of your decision-making process that the battlefield has changed. The orc you wanted to Charm so that it can fight for you is already engaged with your party members. The Fireball you were going to launch is now a bad idea because your party is intermingled with the enemies. While you were looking up the area/duration/saving throw/etc about the spell, things changed.

[Tengu_temp]

Eh, I had a DM who tried to do this. It lasted for about half of one combat, because we all hated it so much.

sacrificing ease of play for the sake of more realism only works if your entire group actually enjoys things like that.

This. So very much this. Except that I didn't have any DMs who tried it, fortunately.

[Lioness]

If you take other peoples' turns to look up the spells, you face the situation that when you come out of your decision-making process that the battlefield has changed. The orc you wanted to Charm so that it can fight for you is already engaged with your party members. The Fireball you were going to launch is now a bad idea because your party is intermingled with the enemies. While you were looking up the area/duration/saving throw/etc about the spell, things changed.

This. Exactly.

I deal with it. The rest of the party are happy to go with it, so I don't make noises. The DM knows I get flustered easily, and he is a little lenient. He's lenient with everyone, if they need it. And we've just acquired a new player, so the time limit would kill him.

[The J Pizzel]

but well... players aren't their characters.


The player is not the character.

This. I agree one-hundred percent. Just because the character has an 18 INT, doesn't mean the player does.

I have one player who always plays high INT (or high WIS) characters. In real life, he's a bar back. He's a big dumb brute who carries beer from the cooler to the bar. He's the nicest guy you'll ever meet and he's a big cuddly teddy bear.

In contrast, since he's like that in real life, he opts to always play high INT characters who are generally kinda snobby and always thinks their better than the average NPC (of course, he's still ultra nice to the PC's). He tends to play Druids, Clerics, or Wizards and he sometimes takes a little while to figure out how he's gonna do what he wants to do cause let's face it, he's not the brightest crayon in the box.

This rule would be very bad for him. And I would never do something like this to him.

As long as my players are actually playing, and not goofing around. They can have as long a time as they need figuring out what they wanna do. If they missed something because they were reading a spell, I don't think they should be penalized. If they missed something cause they were coordinating tactics, ask them to try and pay a little more attention between rounds, but still don't penalize them. If they missed because they were watching youtube videos on an iphone, throw the iPhone in the toilet and the viewers recieve ten lashing by a cat of nine tells.

That's just my humble opinion.

[bosssmiley]

Hey guys, I was thinking about writing a fast past adventure for my friends. The only problem is, in a given 6 seconds (1 round) how long do the players sit there and think about their option... How long can a Wizard contemplate about which spell to cast in a single round...

To solve this problem, I came up with the following rule: In a stressful situation where the timeframe is measured in rounds, you have X amount of time to think during your round, where X equals your intelligence score...

This way a more intelligent character's mind works faster and is able to think critically in an apparently a short amount of time, While a fighter with 8 Int won't be able to come up with more than 8 seconds worth of thought in 6 seconds...

To an Extreme, Animals will only use simplistic actions because they only have 1-3 seconds to think... thus if they have a plan, they tend to stick to it all the time...

IMG: You think about your action while the other players are taking their turn. By the time it comes to your turn you should know what you're doing. Blank or filibuster at me and you're adjudged to be standing there with thumb up butt.

"wizards should get longer, coz they're smarter".

Counter argument: No, fighters should because they're accustomed to the speed and fury of combat. Mr wizard freezes like Bambi in the headlights, traumatised by the blood and screaming, and wishing he were back in his nice, safe tower.

KISS principle applies. No one gets extra time (except newbie players). :smallamused:

[Sleepingbear]

I've used time limits in the past and it worked quite well. But milage will vary.

I do make allowances for questions, looking up spells or manuevers and so forth. I also make allowances for new players or even old players running something new.

But again, milage will vary from group to group. I ran five sessions for our group while our DM was away. I found the players to be dithering and indecisive. So then I just started a slow count down from six to one. Only one player lost a turn and after that, they stayed focused.

That players comment at the table was, "Sleepingbear is an *** about it, but it works."

Then, when the DM returned, that same player asked me to count down at the table to keep him and the other players on task. I had to point out that it wasn't my game and had no authority to enforce anything like that. He (and the others) didn't care.

Of course, now it has become apparent that our DM is actually the biggest offender of time wastage at the table. Or at least he is now.