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Fortuna
2009-12-15, 08:49 PM
My brain is filled with things which should probably not be there. One of these things is a number of chemicals which are relatively nasty, although they are far from the nastiest out there. However, I personally like them, and so I now ask the playground: what game effects would these things have?
Poly-chlorinated biphenyls
Putrescine

These are just the ones off the top of my head. So, ideas?

Volkov
2009-12-15, 08:51 PM
Hydroflouric acid: Deals 1d10 constitution drain each round for 3 rounds, if used on creatures immune to constitution drain. this completely removes 2d10 hit dice instead, if used on objects, it deals 50 damage per round, add +1 to the die number for damage or +10 for damage to objects, and the duration for each additional fluid ounce. This affects creatures immune to acid, but it's damage is halved against such creatures. Hydroflouric acid is some nasty stuff.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 08:55 PM
Hydroflouric acid: Deals 1d10 constitution drain each round for 3 rounds, if used on corporeal undead or flesh golems, this completely removes 2d10 hit dice instead, add +1 to the die number for damage and the duration for each additional fluid ounce. Hydroflouric acid is some nasty stuff.

Yes but make it clear that throwing a bunch of milk on em will limit the effects. HF leaches calcium from your body which what kills ya...

U want some nasty stuff, throw benzene on em. Yeah it takes a while to kill em but boy howdy thats some nasty cancer

CoffeeIncluded
2009-12-15, 08:56 PM
Sulfuric acid: You do NOT want to know what it does to water- and carbon-based objects.

Okay, I'll tell you. Pour sulfuric acid on sugar. C6H12O6, you know?

The second the sulfuric acid hits the sugar, the sugar turns into a foul brown liquid, evaporates, and all that's left is what appears to be extremely porous carbon.

Now imagine what it would do to human flesh.

Volkov
2009-12-15, 08:57 PM
I made a hydroflouric acid Elemental once. It mopped the floor with most any creature I put it up against with a similar CR rating.

Volkov
2009-12-15, 08:58 PM
Sulfuric acid: You do NOT want to know what it does to water- and carbon-based objects.

Okay, I'll tell you. Pour sulfuric acid on sugar. C6H12O6, you know?

The second the sulfuric acid hits the sugar, the sugar turns into a foul brown liquid, evaporates, and all that's left is what appears to be extremely porous carbon.

Now imagine what it would do to human flesh.

Hydroflouric acid is considered to be more dangerous than Sulfuric Acid.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 08:58 PM
I made a hydroflouric acid Elemental once. It mopped the floor with most any creature I put it up against with a similar CR rating.

A water elemental would just dilute him to nothing....

Which made me think just now:

Decanter of Endless HF anyone?

Myrmex
2009-12-15, 08:59 PM
Hydroflouric acid: Deals 1d10 constitution drain each round for 3 rounds, if used on creatures immune to constitution drain. this completely removes 2d10 hit dice instead, if used on objects, it deals 50 damage per round, add +1 to the die number for damage or +10 for damage to objects, and the duration for each additional fluid ounce. This affects creatures immune to acid, but it's damage is halved against such creatures. Hydroflouric acid is some nasty stuff.

But not that nasty.

Fortuna
2009-12-15, 08:59 PM
I made a hydroflouric acid Elemental once. It mopped the floor with most any creature I put it up against with a similar CR rating.

That was cruel. It's a compound, not an element. OTOH, a Francium/Ununheptium elemental would be worse by far.

CoffeeIncluded
2009-12-15, 08:59 PM
Hydroflouric acid is considered to be more dangerous than Sulfuric Acid.

Yeah, but Sulfuric Acid might be a bit easier to get.

And I'll admit, I've never seen Hydroflouric acid in action.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 09:00 PM
That was cruel. It's a compound, not an element. OTOH, a Francium/Ununheptium elemental would be worse by far.

Francium has a half-life in the millisecond range IIRC. So no, no it wouldnt lol. Plutonium on the other hand is almost as bad with a much longer halflife

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 09:01 PM
Yeah, but Sulfuric Acid might be a bit easier to get.

And I'll admit, I've never seen Hydroflouric acid in action.

It is truly nasty stuff. 5 mL is fatal to a human body. No that is not a misprint 5 MILLILITERS

Volkov
2009-12-15, 09:01 PM
That was cruel. It's a compound, not an element. OTOH, a Francium/Ununheptium elemental would be worse by far.

Ununheptium would degrade to nothingness within a round or two, even if you somehow gathered up enough of it to make a 48,000 pound monster. But it would turn any area it was in so radioactive that no form of life would be able to inhabit it for years.

Also, Compoundal would sound, stupid...To say the least.

Myrmex
2009-12-15, 09:02 PM
Francium has a half-life in the millisecond range IIRC. So no, no it wouldnt lol. Plutonium on the other hand is almost as bad with a much longer halflife

They'd go extinct pretty quick with everyone killin' 'em to make katanas out of.

CoffeeIncluded
2009-12-15, 09:03 PM
It is truly nasty stuff. 5 mL is fatal to a human body. No that is not a misprint 5 MILLILITERS

What exactly does it do?

Fortuna
2009-12-15, 09:03 PM
Francium has a half-life in the millisecond range IIRC. So no, no it wouldnt lol. Plutonium on the other hand is almost as bad with a much longer halflife

You may be thinking of Un(whatever)ium. Francium is 23 minutes, and is also an alkali metal, meaning that combined with water you get widespread explosion followed by radiation across that same area.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 09:03 PM
What exactly does it do?

Basically, it leaches the calcium right out of your body. This includes your bones and blood, and your Ca+ ion concentration is crucial to your blood flow. Not to mention your bones basically dissolving

Volkov
2009-12-15, 09:04 PM
Yeah, but Sulfuric Acid might be a bit easier to get.

And I'll admit, I've never seen Hydroflouric acid in action.

It passes through your skin and dissolves your skeleton with incredible speed, in large enough quantities, it can completely remove your skeleton and anything else with calcium in it, letting everyone watch your body collapse into a heap of various tissues.

Fortuna
2009-12-15, 09:04 PM
Basically, it leaches the calcium right out of your body. This includes your bones and blood, and your Ca+ ion concentration is crucial to your blood flow. Not to mention your bones basically dissolving

Nasty. Very nasty. *schemes*

Evard
2009-12-15, 09:05 PM
Hydrochloric Acid: Gas
If you breathe this chemical for extended period of time (like trapped in a room)
Less than 30 seconds and more: 3d10 acid damage
More than 30 seconds and more: 3d10 con mod damage
More than 60 seconds: Death

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-15, 09:06 PM
Phosgene: Breath it and die.

Chlorine Trifluoride: Be exposed to it and melt and/or catch fire.

Siosilvar
2009-12-15, 09:07 PM
Also, Compoundal would sound, stupid...To say the least.

Moleculars?

Although I wouldn't want to try to make any ionic compounds... "formula unitals" sounds worse and "compoundals".

Fortuna
2009-12-15, 09:07 PM
Wow. We are evil evil people. Does anyone else have things like this that are not almost instantly fatal?

Myrmex
2009-12-15, 09:07 PM
It is truly nasty stuff. 5 mL is fatal to a human body. No that is not a misprint 5 MILLILITERS

That's actually quite a bit. The really, really nasty poisons kill you with only a few microliters.

Volkov
2009-12-15, 09:07 PM
Of course, nothing is worse than a P-239 Elemental. Hit it too hard and you, the city, and everything in a large radius will become a radioactive black smear on the ground. Its one enemy you cannot afford to kill.

CoffeeIncluded
2009-12-15, 09:09 PM
Hydrochloric Acid: Gas
If you breathe this chemical for extended period of time (like trapped in a room)
Less than 30 seconds and more: 3d10 acid damage
More than 30 seconds and more: 3d10 con mod damage
More than 60 seconds: Death

Yes, but at what concentration? Last year in chem class we ended up breathing HCl fumes for the entire 40-minute period by mistake. My throat was burning me but I was fine in about half an hour.

And yeesh with the HF. Lemme think of fluff for sulfuric acid. Not great at homebrew though.

Knaight
2009-12-15, 09:10 PM
Cesium is scary. Really though, you want a scary chemical? Nicotine. That stuff makes cyanide look pathetic. The air around it is dangerous. It is the single most dangerous thing in cigarette smoke, and that is extremely diluted. Straight nicotine is one of the nastiest compounds around.

Volkov
2009-12-15, 09:11 PM
I vote that WOTC should make the elemental plane of Plutonium 239. Just one, one overapplication of force and everyone, everywhere dies. It'd be hilarious.

Volkov
2009-12-15, 09:13 PM
Cesium is scary. Really though, you want a scary chemical? Nicotine. That stuff makes cyanide look pathetic. The air around it is dangerous. It is the single most dangerous thing in cigarette smoke, and that is extremely diluted. Straight nicotine is one of the nastiest compounds around.

You want frightening, it's dihydrogen monoxide! '

Dihydrogen monoxide:

* is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
* contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
* may cause severe burns.
* is fatal if inhaled.
* contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
* accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
* may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

* as an industrial solvent and coolant.
* in nuclear power plants.
* in the production of Styrofoam.
* as a fire retardant.
* in many forms of cruel animal research.
* in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
* as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

:P

CoffeeIncluded
2009-12-15, 09:13 PM
I dunno the exact data calculations, but it would do a lot of damage to anything water-based. So basically Water Elementals are screwed around it. Maybe some minor heat damage as well, since it's so exothermic...

jseah
2009-12-15, 09:13 PM
Or use what chemists nickname, magic acid.

Super acids, like HF SbF5, is 10^19 times stronger than sulphuric acid.

It has a lone proton. People with chemistry and physics background will know exactly reactive a naked proton is.

It reacts with oil. It protonates oil to give hydrogen gas and a carbocation. A stable carbocation. Ridiculous as it may sound.

It was named magic acid when the discoverer's student managed to dissolve a candle in one.
It takes a special kind of plastic to keep it in, PTFE, or Teflon. Normal plastics dissolve. XD

Fluoroantimonic acid is not safe in any normal solvent. We use it in weird things like liquid sulphur dioxide because it explodes in water.

Fortuna
2009-12-15, 09:13 PM
I am scared now. Although what would scare me more is if they statted out the plane of anti-P-239 :smalleek:

CoffeeIncluded
2009-12-15, 09:15 PM
Or use what chemists nickname, magic acid.

Super acids, like HF SbF5, is 10^19 times stronger than sulphuric acid.

It has a lone proton. People with chemistry and physics background will know exactly reactive a naked proton is.

It reacts with oil. It protonates oil to give hydrogen gas and a carbocation. A stable carbocation. Ridiculous as it may sound.

It was named magic acid when the discoverer's student managed to dissolve a candle in one.
It takes a special kind of plastic to keep it in, PTFE, or Teflon. Normal plastics dissolve. XD

Fluoroantimonic acid is not safe in any normal solvent. We use it in weird things like liquid sulphur dioxide because it explodes in water.

Oh dear God.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 09:17 PM
You want frightening, it's dihydrogen monoxide! '

Dihydrogen monoxide:

* is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
* contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
* may cause severe burns.
* is fatal if inhaled.
* contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
* accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
* may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

* as an industrial solvent and coolant.
* in nuclear power plants.
* in the production of Styrofoam.
* as a fire retardant.
* in many forms of cruel animal research.
* in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
* as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

:P

Funnily enough, Penn and Teller once did a petition to have dihydrogen monoxide banned cause of the above reasons.

Slower poisons include the classic arsenic, any sort of organics (methanol, PET ether, etc.) or a gigantic as was mentioned cesium. Throw it at em when they are in a pool :D

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 09:18 PM
Or use what chemists nickname, magic acid.

Super acids, like HF SbF5, is 10^19 times stronger than sulphuric acid.

It has a lone proton. People with chemistry and physics background will know exactly reactive a naked proton is.

It reacts with oil. It protonates oil to give hydrogen gas and a carbocation. A stable carbocation. Ridiculous as it may sound.

It was named magic acid when the discoverer's student managed to dissolve a candle in one.
It takes a special kind of plastic to keep it in, PTFE, or Teflon. Normal plastics dissolve. XD

Fluoroantimonic acid is not safe in any normal solvent. We use it in weird things like liquid sulphur dioxide because it explodes in water.

Hmmm this got me thinking...

Aqua Regia monster! gogo no more gold in the world!

icefractal
2009-12-15, 09:18 PM
A useful list (http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with/), for this purpose. The star of which would probably be Chlorine Trifluoride, an oxidizer so powerful it will ignite bricks and asbestos tile - and releases hot clouds of hydrofluoric acid as a byproduct.

Edit: I see Pharaoh's Fist already mentioned Chlorine Trifluoride. For nonlethal purposes, the list also has Thioacetone, the worst smelling compound in existance.

Myrmex
2009-12-15, 09:20 PM
As far as cheap and easy chemicals go, thermite reactions only require rust & aluminum shavings, + a lot of heat to get going.

Moff Chumley
2009-12-15, 09:25 PM
Mmm, thermite... You can't go wrong with a nice Rubidium explosion, I gotta say. Especially spiking a food with it: it won't explode until it enters their mouth, or even stomach. Then it explodes. :smallcool:

SurlySeraph
2009-12-15, 09:44 PM
Chlorine trifluoride is great. It will set pretty much anything on fire (when it doesn't explode, which it does when it comes into contact with water), including human flesh. Oh, and when it breaks down due to its hydrolysis reaction with water? It turns into hydrofluoric acid! Yes, the stuff that dissolves your bones! For game purposes, I'd say exposure to it as a gas causes 1d2 points each of acid and fire damage per round, followed by the effects of a dose of hydrofluoric acid (which I'd put as 1d8 acid damage primary, 1d8 Constitution damage secondary).

John D. Clark summarized chlorine trifluoride thusly:


It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water with which it reacts explosively. It can be kept in some of the ordinary structural metals-steel, copper, aluminium, etc.-because of the formation of a thin film of insoluble metal fluoride which protects the bulk of the metal, just as the invisible coat of oxide on aluminium keeps it from burning up in the atmosphere. If, however, this coat is melted or scrubbed off, and has no chance to reform, the operator is confronted with the problem of coping with a metal-fluorine fire. For dealing with this situation, I have always recommended a good pair of running shoes.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-15, 09:47 PM
It also causes cancer.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 09:51 PM
It also causes cancer.

EVERYTHING causes cancer. Heck just existing causes cancer

SurlySeraph
2009-12-15, 09:51 PM
You know what I think? I think fluorine is sentient and hates humans. I have yet to see any chemical evidence that does not support this hypothesis.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-15, 09:52 PM
You know what I think? I think fluorine is sentient and hates humans. I have yet to see any chemical evidence that does not support this hypothesis.

But it makes our teeth so strong!


EVERYTHING causes cancer. Heck just existing causes cancer

Yes, but halogens are especially carcinogenic.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 09:52 PM
You know what I think? I think fluorine is sentient and hates humans. I have yet to see any chemical evidence that does not support this hypothesis.

Fluorine elementals instead?

Yukitsu
2009-12-15, 09:56 PM
Pop a pill filled with phosphorous shavings.

Edit: Or was that potassium? I always get those mixed up.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 10:05 PM
Pop a pill filled with phosphorous shavings.

Edit: Or was that potassium? I always get those mixed up.

Depends. Do you want them to go boom or... Well really u want potassium

SurlySeraph
2009-12-15, 10:21 PM
Ooh, dimethylmercury is another great one. Not great for game purposes, since it will probably take months before it'll kill you. But 0.1 mL can be fatal, it's absorbed through your skin, it has high vapor pressure so if you spill any liquid the vapors go everywhere, and it goes right through lab gloves.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-15, 10:31 PM
Seraph, do you brush your teeth with fluorine based toothpaste, perchance?

Myrmex
2009-12-15, 10:36 PM
You know what I think? I think fluorine is sentient and hates humans. I have yet to see any chemical evidence that does not support this hypothesis.

Nah, it's just highly reactive, and we're very electron rich.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-15, 10:38 PM
Fluorine: the backalley mugger of the chemical world.

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 10:46 PM
Fluorine: the backalley mugger of the chemical world.

With his buddys Oxygen, Chlorine, and Potassium

(The FOKCl gang?)

snoopy13a
2009-12-15, 10:51 PM
You want frightening, it's dihydrogen monoxide! '

Dihydrogen monoxide:

* is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
* contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
* may cause severe burns.
* is fatal if inhaled.
* contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
* accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
* may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

* as an industrial solvent and coolant.
* in nuclear power plants.
* in the production of Styrofoam.
* as a fire retardant.
* in many forms of cruel animal research.
* in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
* as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

:P

Not only is it a dangerous acid, it is a dangerous base as well :smalltongue:

They actually have MSDS reports on it:
https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/00199.htm

Now, read this MSDS report and see what the recommended first aid is for exposure:
http://hazard.com/msds/f2/cfz/cfzqb.html

Worira
2009-12-15, 11:18 PM
Oh god, it's a never-ending cycle!

SemiteLock
2009-12-15, 11:19 PM
Oh god, it's a never-ending cycle!

... The Krebs Cycle?

Zain
2009-12-15, 11:29 PM
You want frightening, it's dihydrogen monoxide! '

Dihydrogen monoxide:

* is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
* contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
* may cause severe burns.
* is fatal if inhaled.
* contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
* accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
* may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

* as an industrial solvent and coolant.
* in nuclear power plants.
* in the production of Styrofoam.
* as a fire retardant.
* in many forms of cruel animal research.
* in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
* as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

:P

man in need a decanter of endless dihydrogen monoxide:smallwink:
This is Water FYI

SurlySeraph
2009-12-16, 12:20 AM
Seraph, do you brush your teeth with fluorine based toothpaste, perchance?

No, with sugar. If it was good enough for Shakespeare, it's good enough for me.


Nah, it's just highly reactive, and we're very electron rich.

That's exactly what fluorine wants you to think.

Nehh
2009-12-16, 02:18 AM
For something a bit less nasty, how about osmium tetroxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmic_acid)? It's only slightly less dangerous, but it'll do for when you don't always want someone dead right off the bat.

Fortuna
2009-12-16, 02:20 AM
I am still fond of putrescene for non-fatal nastiness. Say, one litre of it. Undiluted.

Nehh
2009-12-16, 02:21 AM
Hmm. I think we're going to have to get some of these statted out.

Fortuna
2009-12-16, 02:26 AM
Putrescine

For every milliliter of putrescine within 60 feet, a creature must succeed on a DC 15 Fort save or be sickened. If there are more than ten milliliters within this range, the DC increases to 25. From then on, the DC increases by 5 every time the quantity doubles. Additional saves are forced IN ADDITION.

Cost: No. Just no. If you are asking, then you are one sick puppy IC.

Brother Oni
2009-12-16, 07:44 AM
I'm wondering why people are messing around with chemicals and raw elements? These things tend to be extremely corrosive, hard to store and generally hard to deploy (by the way Sulphuric acid is only really effective on human flesh with prolonged contact. I used to spill 1M stuff on my hands all the time and it only gave me a case of dry skin for a few days).

People have been coming up with poisonous chemicals for use as weapons since the Middle Ages, but here's a couple modern ones:

Ricin: lethal dose is estimated to be 500mcg (about half a grain of sand) by injection or inhalation.

Anthrax: a biological agent but can be used as a weapon; a couple kilograms of anthrax spores dispersed by airplane can easily affect a large geographical area. With a bit of genetic modification, can also be made to be more effective at inhalation infection and antibiotic resistance.

Botulin: the most poisonous substance known to man. 0.4-4mcg will kill a 80kg adult. Bear in mind that 500mcg is half a grain of sand.

Phosgene, Mustard gas, Sarin: various chemical and nerve agents that have been in use since WWI.

There's a reason why all these things have been banned for use in warfare. In a setting where there's no Geneva Convention however...

Slayn82
2009-12-16, 08:17 AM
Well, D20 Modern adressed this question somewhat.

Althought i disagree with their stats for Bases (deal no damage? Just neutralize an acid of the same potency? :smallsigh:), and cranked the Craft DCs way over the top due to gameplay (unless you consider that a apropriate chemical lab gives +5 to +10 in the check). Probably they consider that the pcs are always crafting chemicals from improvised materials buyed at the supermarket.

The chemicals/poisons DCs saves and damage effects are somewhat reasonable, considering that the powerfull characthers in the scenario have access. And most can devastate an average person (like most of us) fast.

Personally, i would go like this for Sulfuric Acid in D20 Modern


33.53%, battery acid (used in lead-acid batteries), (4.2 molar) - Mild Acid (1D6/1D10)
62.18%, chamber or fertilizer acid, (9.6 molar), - Potent Acid (2D6/2D10)

97%, concentrated acid, (approx. 18 molar). - Concentrated Acid (3D6/3D10)


Stronger Acids than Sulfuric Acid go right to Concentrated. To determine the damage for the other acids, just look at the medium pH.

Also, at least D20 modern got the explosives somewhat right.

Amiel
2009-12-16, 08:35 AM
I'm wondering why people are messing around with chemicals and raw elements? These things tend to be extremely corrosive, hard to store and generally hard to deploy (by the way Sulphuric acid is only really effective on human flesh with prolonged contact. I used to spill 1M stuff on my hands all the time and it only gave me a case of dry skin for a few days).

Quite simply, magic and more magic. Spells, arcana and magic can save one's skin, sometimes quite literally. Wall of force can be used to cage and imprison volatile, extremely hazardous chemicals or worse.


This may be helpful; extremely hazardous substances (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extremely_hazardous_substances)


Incidently, botulin is sometimes known by its most common name...botox...that's right, botox.

Brother Oni
2009-12-16, 09:31 AM
Wall of force can be used to cage and imprison volatile, extremely hazardous chemicals or worse.

Weaponised chemicals would still be nastier, be it in pure effect on soft squishy humans, or easy of deployment.



Incidently, botulin is sometimes known by its most common name...botox...that's right, botox.

I know botulin is used as the beauty treatment botox, which is why I had an extreme wtf?! moment when botox entered the general consciousness.

Needless to say, my views on it are somewhat extreme. :smallannoyed:



To Slayn82:

As for bases, I'd rule they cause the exact same damage as an acid to human flesh, with an additional Dex penalty as it turns your skin into soap, making handling items somewhat difficult. :smallwink:

Amiel
2009-12-16, 09:55 AM
Weaponised chemicals would still be nastier, be it in pure effect on soft squishy humans, or easy of deployment.

However, the spell description for wall of force is per the following:
"A wall of force spell creates an invisible wall of force. The wall cannot move, it is immune to damage of all kinds, and it is unaffected by most spells, including dispel magic[...]Breath weapons (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#breathWeapon) and spells cannot pass through the wall in either direction...It blocks ethereal creatures as well as material ones (though ethereal creatures can usually get around the wall by floating under or over it through material floors and ceilings)"
Appropriate areas italicised for ease of reference.


I know botulin is used as the beauty treatment botox, which is why I had an extreme wtf?! moment when botox entered the general consciousness.

Needless to say, my views on it are somewhat extreme. :smallannoyed:

I know, man! Which makes it all the more surprising and disturbing why people would insist on subjecting themselves to the 'treatment' (now I say treatment with no small amount of sarcasm). They are injecting themselves with what is a very dangerous poison, that can cause irreparable nerve loss and death.

Evard
2009-12-16, 11:56 AM
Yes, but at what concentration? Last year in chem class we ended up breathing HCl fumes for the entire 40-minute period by mistake. My throat was burning me but I was fine in about half an hour.

And yeesh with the HF. Lemme think of fluff for sulfuric acid. Not great at homebrew though.


Well if its a trap then it will be concentrated and not something you could just come up with in a chem class...

Ok just change HCL to Chlorine gas and there ya go ^ ^ thats something that will mess you up even in small concentrations :3 (talk to your local water/waste water treatment plant operators :3 )

oh the chlorine will be a greenish cloud

Slayn82
2009-12-16, 12:03 PM
To Slayn82:

As for bases, I'd rule they cause the exact same damage as an acid to human flesh, with an additional Dex penalty as it turns your skin into soap, making handling items somewhat difficult. :smallwink:

That would take a while to occur. Or did the enemy throw at you a boiling/ fumegating base solution? Ouch.

But yes, damages like that of acids.

@CoffeeIncluded: quite an usual occurrence to me when i was starting my graduation in Chemistry, as some classmates insisted in boiling the samples in fumegating Chloridric Acid outside the fume extractor hood of the laboratory. Getting an accurate map of your lungs from smelling concentrated acid fumes is not fun.

Brother Oni
2009-12-16, 12:07 PM
However, the spell description for wall of force is per the following:
{Snipped for clarity}


Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear.

What I meant is that dumping an amount of a simply toxic chemical over an area isn't going to be as effective as dumping the same amount of an equally toxic chemical, but one that's designed for dispersal.

Suppose we use a wall of force to disperse 200L of sulphuric acid above a typical D&D town. The residents will get a mild burning sensation at first, which will worsen over time, with more serious effects if they get it their eyes or have respiratory problems. Fatalities will be light but with medium to heavy casualties. Possible side effect of the acid affecting the soil pH.

We do the same with 200L of Agent Orange and you'll have serious burns much the same as the acid, but with the added complication of serious birth defects of all future descendants.

Do the same with 200L of Sarin, you'd kill the entire town.

Do it with 200kg of anthrax spores, you'll kill the entire region.


That would take a while to occur. Or did the enemy throw at you a boiling/ fumegating base solution? Ouch.


It'd depend. I found my fingers getting soapy about a minute after handling pearlised sodium hydroxide (I spilled a bit on the balance and picked it up with my fingers instead of using a spatula :smallsigh:).

kemmotar
2009-12-16, 12:36 PM
http://media.dandwiki.com/w/images/d/d7/1128559207_catgirl_849.png

In memory of Mimi:
darling wife and mother, another victim of science in a world of magic...
May you and the others rest in peace..

*tear*

Slayn82
2009-12-16, 12:50 PM
@ Catgirls
Well, as far as i know, if catgirls can survive anime explosions, they can easilly survive the D&D Antimatter bombs. That will just knock them out a little.

Now, the thing to do is a little EXPERIMENT, and test the classical folklore, and while the catgirl is prone, steal their clothes. When they wake up and find themselves naked they are bound to serve the one who took their clothes away until they can recover it. If this fail, well, naked catgirl. Still a win in my book.


So yeah, i will add Mimi to my harem now, thank you very much.

Volkov
2009-12-16, 05:46 PM
Has anyone done polonium? An amount as large as a speck of dust will be enough to kill you pretty rapidly. And because it kills with extreme amounts of alpha rays, it can be hidden in a paper bag. Thus it's an incredibly stealthy way to kill. All you need to do is release some of the toxin, and wait for them to die a horrible, agonizing death, that cannot be traced back to you by mundane means as long as you weren't seen doing it, which is pretty easy thanks to the incredibly minute amounts needed to kill. You can release a lot of tiny specks of polonium and it will slip into their pores, killing the poor SOB.

Fortuna
2009-12-16, 05:53 PM
Yeah. There are just so many ways to kill people, quickly, slowly, painfully, stealthily, whatever, that it almsot isn't worth looking for anything extra-special in that regard. Non-lethal stuff is slightly harder. Incidentally, what does everyone think of my statting out of putrescine?

Brother Oni
2009-12-16, 07:20 PM
Incidentally, what does everyone think of my statting out of putrescine?

I can't judge on the crunch side of it as I'm not too familiar with D&D past the original red book version.

However given that it's produced naturally when bodies decay, I'd tone it down a bit, unless you want zombies or other decaying bodies to exude this effect naturally.

Fortuna
2009-12-16, 07:23 PM
Putrescine is produced in relatively small and diluted quantities by decay.