View Full Version : Is this ACF reasonable? [3.5]

2009-12-15, 08:54 PM
Class:Any class proficient with heavy armor.
Lose:Heavy armor proficiency Medium Armor Proficiency.
Gain: Increase skill points per level by 2. Add Balance Climb, Jump, Swim and Tumble to your class skills.

Tumble is a bit powerful (more than the rest of the skills anyways) and Blackguard (and any other odd prestige class that grants proficiency to an entry that would already have it) wouldn't lose much, but other than that, anything wrong with it?

2009-12-15, 09:14 PM
I see no real issues. Sacrificing protection for something you can't do in armour anyway...

Good option if you wanted to go into Duelist later one [for some reason, it might happen!]

2009-12-16, 12:55 PM
And you can already get tumble by trading Ride if you really needed the class skill.

2009-12-16, 01:26 PM
I'll suggest this to my DM if I every want to play swashbucklers when we don't have the class.

2009-12-16, 01:52 PM
I really, really like this variation. However, I'm not sure about the balance, though. Unearthed Arcana has something similar for fighters, called the thug class. The thug's 4 skill points and expanded skill list cost shield proficiency and a fighter bonus feat in addition to heavy and medium armor proficiency.

2009-12-16, 04:06 PM
I based it on the thug actually.

2009-12-16, 04:35 PM
You give up something you can easily get back, but in exchange for things that don't work well if you do get it back. That's fine. Only possible abuse I can see is if you do it for the skill points, ignore the class skills gained and get back your heavy armor proficiency via a dip in another class (base or prestige). How about adding the caveat that the extra skill points can only be spent on the new skills?

Otherwise if anything it seems like it might be a little underpowered. You're a martial class that can't defend nearly as well, but you can balance and tumble to the what now? Yeah, good only for campaigns that have a lot of scenery. Then it's great.

In short, add these two things:
1. New skill points may only be spent on new skills (other skill points may also be spent on these, if desired).
2. Warning: To avoid gimping yourself use only in campaigns with lots of interesting scenery like cliffs you can climb, slippery surfaces or rubble, high seas adventures and strategic back line targets.

2009-12-16, 07:05 PM
Are there any prcs that are decent that grant heavy armor?

2009-12-16, 07:24 PM
Are there any prcs that are decent that grant heavy armor?

Occult Slayer
Holy Liberator
Radiant Servant of Pelor
Shining Blade of Heironeous
Shadowbane Inquisitor

Disciple of Thrym
Hammer of Moradin

2009-12-16, 08:02 PM
You should make sure that it says "1st level in a class that grants heavy armor proficiency". I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but it never hurts to avoid possible cheese.

2009-12-16, 08:11 PM
It's still a better wording even without cheese. Will do once I get enough feedback to make a version 2.

Revan Ordo
2009-12-17, 08:20 AM
A reasonable ACF all in all. For balance sake, you should probably also lose proficiency with Heavy Shields, but it might still be okay without.

2009-12-17, 08:34 AM
I like it. If I play a fighter, it's usually the TWF, Weapon Finesse version, and this would eliminate multi-classing with Rogue to get a decent amount of skill ranks in Tumble.