Have Faith in Rich

[SavageWombat]

I think a lot of people are forgetting this important point. (Maybe it's a GM thing.)

As far as I can tell, Rich has proven that he ALWAYS knows what he's doing. The essays in the collections show that every plot point he has introduced has had a reason, even if it's just character development.

The Order was not lured out into the desert just so Girard could mock them. Any GM who inflicted that on players would be beaten with a sock full of 4-siders. There is a clue here, somewhere.

Whether it turns out that Girard really is a mistrustful jackass, or a clever bastard passing secret messages (I like the hidden numbers theory), or even that Durkon and Belkar are going to stumble across the secret ...

... the Order will find the gate somehow. Because the story is more important than anything.

Who's with me?

[Vic_Sage]

He better or else I'm dropping OotS.

[kabbor]

... the Order will find the gate somehow. Because the story is more important than anything.

Who's with me?

Partially. It won't all be for nothing, but OOtS and Team Evil charging all over the desert, annoying everything in their paths, finding all sorts of essential things, but not the gate, and leaving for Kragoor/Serini's gate is a possible plot. Note that Kragoor's tomb is in the northern lands, and, according to the Oracle, Durkon will get there 'posthumously', this will not be for nothing!

[Optimystik]

Who's with me?

OOH-RAH!!!!!

[Shadowbane]

Who's with me?

*Raises hand*

Rich is pretty brilliant, and I totally trust him with this.

Also I love Girard, so yeah.

[drengnikrafe]

The thing that gets me is that Rich has got 6 strips before an x00 strip. And while x00s have about a less than perfect shot of being awesome, I am of the firm belief this one will be. The finding of the gate, or incredibly epic illusions, or some other huge plot point would be appropriate for 700, in my eyes.

So, what I see happening is either...
A) The Order stumbles around blindly in some sort of fury at being tricked, and accidentally opens the gate somehow. This option is easily very dramatic and sudden, but it's also a little cheesy.
B) The Order realizes something is wrong with this whole picture, and continues investigating, either the entire area, or the one thing they've found in that area, eventually finding the gate because of it. While this would make the most sense, the associated jokes would have to be a little bit weak, since there's not much funny about that (that I can see. But then, Rich is a genius).
C) While most of the Order was listening to this illusion, Durkon/Belkar/Mr. Scruffy found something else.

EDIT: Whether I'm right or wrong, or close, or whatever... none of that matters, really. I know Rich will pull through somehow. He always does.

[FoE]

The one issue I find with the biggest complainers is that they forget this is an ongoing storyline and treat each strip as if it existed in a bubble.

Oh, you don't understand why this certain plot development was introduced? Well, did you ever consider that it will have some relevance later on?

On this current topic ... did anyone honestly expect finding Girard's Gate was going to be easy? That they were going to find the entrance, stroll in without any trouble and Girard would happily help them set up an ambush for Xykon? The story would be done in the next 50 strips!

Let the story develop at its own pace. Have patience.

[Grey Watcher]

The one issue I find with the biggest complainers is that they forget this is an ongoing storyline and treat each strip as if it existed in a bubble.

Oh, you don't understand why this certain plot development was introduced? Well, did you ever consider that it will have some relevance later on?

On this current topic ... did anyone honestly expect finding Girard's Gate was going to be easy? That they were going to find the entrance, stroll in without any trouble and Girard would happily help them set up an ambush for Xykon? The story would be done in the next 50 strips!

Let the story develop at its own pace. Have patience.

Yeah, it's very difficult to take the long view when you're in the midst of a story. Whether it's Haley's aphasia, the trial in Azure City, the Broken Stick Arc, whatever, people get so obsessed with reaching the conclusion they forget about all the fun to be had along the way. Those of us that game, don't the best stories come about because one or more players botched some task or other and forced creative thinking to get around the mistake?

Personally, my idle speculation of the moment is thatthey don't actually find the gate right away. Somehow or other, they'll get sidetracked, so we'll have lots of fun finding Haley's dad, matching witlessnesses with Linear Jerks, possibly the slavers, spice, various local warlords, V's divorce, the potential resurrection of Crystal, or any of a number of other complications that either haven't been hinted at yet or that I've clean forgotten about. All of this seems (to me) such a potential gold mine of story possibilities, that it seems silly to rush the characters into completing their primary objective right away and just having them camp out in a random spot in the desert waiting for the antagonist to show up. Even if Rich chooses to keep us on the Finding the Gate plot, I'd rather have a longer story with them unraveling clues and illusions, like National Treasure, but better, than simply, six strips from now, Elan tripping over the easy button followed by the Order sitting on their butts waiting for Xykon to find his phylactery and get moving.

That's just my 2 CP, I guess.

[Hurkyl]

Now would be the perfect time to switch to the Linear Guild and follow them for a few dozen strips! And just when they are about to seize the gate for themselves, the OotS will show up, with some comment about zany-and-fun-filled-efforts-trying-to-find-the-gate-but-don't-have-time-to-talk-about.

[Silverraptor]

I always do! That's why I like OOTS in the first place! It took me 3-days (Or 12 ours total) to get from comic 1 to the current comic at that time. And every part of that story took me off by surprise. When ever I finished the comic, I was eager to click the "Next" button, just because I wanted to see more of what happened. The fact I'm so devoted to this story means that even if Rich decides to send OOTS into a suicidal nut-job of a story, I will still read it til the end.:smallsmile: (Not that I think you will do such a thing, Rich. Just in case you read this.)

[Mystic Muse]

I was afraid this was going to be another of THOSE threads.

I personally have faith in Rich's Storytelling and DM strengths. In fact I'd really like to try out a game with him. I just know that it's never going to happen.

[Turkish Delight]

?

Is there a mass loss of faith in the Giant's storytelling abilities I don't know about?

It's pretty obvious by now Rich is not an incompetent storyteller. Therefore, yes, getting dragged into the middle of the desert for seemingly no purpose will lead somewhere. Either the gate actually is there or some clue will suggest where it actually is...or some clue will suggest where Girard is now so they can enlist his help personally.

[FoE]

Is there a mass loss of faith in the Giant's storytelling abilities I don't know about?

There seems to be a lot of debate around 'Girard's Gate' in the main thread and how the party will possibly resolve this conundrum. Also, a few bitchers and complainers who say the plot isn't enfolding to their satisfaction, but there'll always be those.

[factotum]

Whatever else happens:


Girard's Gate will be destroyed. There won't be the same tension at the fight for Kraagor's Gate if they know that Girard's gate is still intact and therefore will still hold the Snarl back even if Kraagor's is destroyed. Conversely, Xykon can't possibly actually start USING Girard's Gate because then there'd be no incentive for anyone to head to Kraagor's.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Order now end up finding Haley's father while Team Evil and Girard have an entirely separate encounter...

[The Recreator]

Honestly? I'm kicking myself for not seeing this sort of thing coming beforehand. The story was moving far too fast for a ~200-page story arc, unless Girard has some sort of siege engine that can engage Team Evil in combat for 50 rounds pages.

I very much doubt that the Order of the Stick will have to start from scratch in their search for Girard's Gate - though it's highly possible that they will, just because it's how they roll.

[Turkish Delight]

There seems to be a lot of debate around 'Girard's Gate' in the main thread and how the party will possibly resolve this conundrum.

Meh. The Giant is a better storyteller than I am and from nearly the start I've seen a number of good ways the plot could proceed from this point. The people raising those objections just aren't using their imaginations.

[Zevox]

Honestly? I'm kicking myself for not seeing this sort of thing coming beforehand. The story was moving far too fast for a ~200-page story arc, unless Girard has some sort of siege engine that can engage Team Evil in combat for 50 rounds pages.
Agreed. I don't see why anyone would be complaining that the story is moving slowly at this point. The Order only arrived at the desert about 20 strips ago, and that was the beginning of the new book, which presumably will focus on Girard's gate. Personally, I didn't find this at all surprising, precisely because of that.

Zevox

[Sholos]

He better or else I'm dropping OotS.

How long have you been dissatisfied with it? It'd certainly take more than a few weeks to turn me off a comic I loved.

OT: Yes, I fully believe Rich capable of telling a masterful story here, and I believe that this is just the beginning of this arc, with lots of story to go.

[The Rose Dragon]

Of course, just because he knows what he's doing doesn't necessarily mean we do, or that we agree he does it well, even in hindsight.

[Kaytara]

Just forty strips prior, during the fight against Xykon, people literally kept singing Rich's praises with every comic that came out, praising each update as a Crowning Moment of Awesome and a testament to his writing skill.

Rather than assume that Rich's writing skill has dropped so much in just a few months, I'm willing to bet that people aren't feeling the same level of excitement now because this isn't the freaking climax anymore. XD It's the start of a new storyline, with appropriate dynamics. :D

[Turkish Delight]

Just forty strips prior, during the fight against Xykon, people literally kept singing Rich's praises with every comic that came out, praising each update as a Crowning Moment of Awesome and a testament to his writing skill.

Rather than assume that Rich's writing skill has dropped so much in just a few months, I'm willing to bet that people aren't feeling the same level of excitement now because this isn't the freaking climax anymore. XD It's the start of a new storyline, with appropriate dynamics. :D

The problem, I think, is in the nature of web comics. At the best of times, web comics tend to go very slow, with only a handful of updates a week which progress the plot no more than a few panels. If you drop the 'handful of updates a week' part and base things instead on 'sometimes weeks of very irregular updates', the difficult-to-avoid slow beginning of a new story can last for months on end and bring things to a slow, desperate crawl.

Methinks Girard's appearance in-comic, even as an illusion, is a sign that things are picking up.

[Jan Mattys]

We are arguing about the Gate and Girard because it's interesting, not because we think Rich is screwing over.

Of course I have faith in Rich... the fact that I'm speculating in this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135161) (something I've never done before) comes from me getting interested and involved, and that's a sign that I'm appreciating.

No doubts about it: Rich is the man. So far I only found the very start of the arc mildly disappointing (due to the anti-climax after the awesome Haley-Belkar-V-OChul-RoyRessed arc), but the last strip definitely is on par with the best strips of the comic. I don't mind about plot twists, Rich knows what he's doing.

[silversaraph]

I was almost positive when I clicked on this thread it was a disguised update thread.

Oops.

Eh, I thought the last comic was epic in just that it closed a long running plot instantly, like strip 595 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html). Personally, I think that was what Rich was going for, regardless of the panic afterwards.

I mean, I posted the latter strip on my wall when it came out. (Is that a copyright violation, or something?)

[bluewind95]

Have faith in Rich? NEVER! Never, I say! He must write what I ask him to! :smallwink:

.... Okay, no, that's not it. Personally, I liked that twist with Girard's spell just saying "Hahah! This isn't it!". Is this a huge setback for the Order? Yep. I'll just wait and see where it goes.

There's no real need to "have faith" in Rich, though, I think. He'll write as he wants/can. If we like it, we keep on reading. If not, our attention will wander. That's all there really is to it.

[fangthane]

1. I have faith in very few things over which I lack direct control; however, my faith in an established author whose work I enjoy (such as Rich) is one of those few exceptions.
2. I might be willing to kill to play a D&D game DM'ed by the Giant. If I thought I could get away with it long enough to finish up the campaign. :smallbiggrin:
3. Silverseraph - I'm not so sure he's brought it to a close so much as sort of twisted up the balloon which contains it. The rest is still there, but they have to find a way past the twisty bit to get there. Also, I don't think it's actionable infringement to print a copy of one or two strips for personal display. I seem to recall there used to be a post from the Giant outlining the basics of how things worked, but being too lazy to make OotS-like content and content not to have the strips on my wall, I never paid enough attention and am not sure where it went when the server got crunched.
4. Threats? Really? "If things don't turn around I'm gonna stop burning the Giant's bandwidth by downloading his comic!" I dunno, seems pretty unlikely to have the (apparently) desired effect. :) Maybe you just need a short break and to come back to the comic when either there's more to read all at once, or there's more action-per-page to satisfy your craving.

[Morty]

I don't need to have any more faith in Rich than I have in any other author not to start screaming when something unexpected happens that stalls the protagonists' progress. I honestly have no idea why do people want the OoTS to succeed at everything no matter what. Would they read a book in which the hero beats his rival, gets the girl and becomes filthy rich after fifty pages?

[madtinker]

Agree with OP! I was rereading some of the old strips yesterday instead of studying, and this comic freakin ROCKS! I think I'll reread the whole thing over break (its way easier than War and Peace).

[Omergideon]

As one of those who dislike the most recent turn of events (it feels like the Mario Bros "your princess is in another castle" type things to me and other reasons) I can say that even without liking it I can appreciate it in context. I know that the whole story will turn out just fine and have faith, but will still merrily say I do not like this turn of events.

As for people complaining about the pacing, it is probably a combination of elements. The strip is slower than the climactic period with V/Xykon et al so it feels like a comedown. Throw in breaks and the naturally sporadic update schedule and it feels like everything just ground to a halt just as the momentum had reached a peak. It is expected and completely fine but still people used to the momentum (such as readers like me who only discovered the comic during the most recent arcs) will be affected by it.

[CliveStaples]

My favorite part? Even when everybody knows that gods exist, snotty jackasses still insist that religion contravenes logic.

And remember: Good is stupid! Thanks, Rich.

[Turkish Delight]

My favorite part? Even when everybody knows that gods exist, snotty jackasses still insist that religion contravenes logic.

Acch. Again, it isn't the existence of the Gods that contravenes logic in the OotS world; it's spending a chunk of your day with your lips glued to their asses.

[ThreadKiller]

...this comic freakin ROCKS! I think I'll reread the whole thing over break...

Seconded! :smallsmile:

[fangthane]

Acch. Again, it isn't the existence of the Gods that contravenes logic in the OotS world; it's spending a chunk of your day with your lips glued to their asses.

It's not even so much that, as a goad deliberately intended to annoy Soon or any of his 'facist' minions*. Or, of course, anyone who got their information from Soon (as the case has turned out to be). Fortunately, that particular aspect is unlikely to annoy the Order nearly as much as the revelation that the gate's not there (which is bad enough to begin with).

Of course at this point we don't really know whether this version of Girard's story is any more true than the rest. Just try applying a Zone of Truth to an illusory mouthpiece. :smallamused:


*after all, they're the ones with whom Girard has the (apparent) schism, they're the ones whose mention provided the keys to his heuristic illusion-generator, and it's they who bow down to a petting zoo. I suspect logic has far less to do with things than the simple desire to (at least appear to) attack what Soon held most dear.

[spargel]

At least the writing is starting to get better again, after that cliched soul splice arc.

[Sholos]

At least the writing is starting to get better again, after that cliched soul splice arc.

*stares* *blink-blink*

Are we reading the same comic? The soul-splice arc is one of the best arcs in the entire story, so far. People really need to stop thinking cliche=bad. It doesn't. Cliche=cliche, end of story. Now, cliche can be done poorly, or it can be done well. Rich did it excellently with the soul-splice.

[Gamerlord]

I don't need to have any more faith in Rich than I have in any other author not to start screaming when something unexpected happens that stalls the protagonists' progress. I honestly have no idea why do people want the OoTS to succeed at everything no matter what. Would they read a book in which the hero beats his rival, gets the girl and becomes filthy rich after fifty pages?

Seconded, I myself hope that the process of victory will be as long,as painful, and as lethal as possible.

At least the writing is starting to get better again, after that cliched soul splice arc.
It is not a cliche, its a trope! (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad)

[Quorothorn]

At least the writing is starting to get better again, after that cliched soul splice arc.

Hey, that arc was awesome. The premise might be a familiar one, but the specifics in the execution were high-quality, so it doesn't matter. I mean, Lord of the Rings is still a great novel (best ever IMO) even though much of its basic outline has been rendered cliche by hundreds of imitators.



Anyway, at this point I don't see why we wouldn't have faith in Mr. Burlew. He's never let us down before (my opinion there o'course), I doubt he's going to start now.

[spargel]

*stares* *blink-blink*

Are we reading the same comic? The soul-splice arc is one of the best arcs in the entire story, so far. People really need to stop thinking cliche=bad. It doesn't. Cliche=cliche, end of story. Now, cliche can be done poorly, or it can be done well. Rich did it excellently with the soul-splice.

If you're going to do a cliche, make sure it makes sense first, unless you're parodying it. What I see is the author placing the cliches into the story first and screwing up on the logical sequence of events that lead to the them. It wouldn't be so much of a problem for me if the author didn't make that part the most serious arc in the story, and if the people here didn't take it so seriously. This is on top of the characters being saved by insane luck, several times in a row.

So I'm in the opinion that the author did the cliche mediocrely.

[BRC]

If you're going to do a cliche, make sure it makes sense first, unless you're parodying it. What I see is the author placing the cliches into the story first and screwing up on the logical sequence of events that lead to the them. It wouldn't be so much of a problem for me if the author didn't make that part the most serious arc in the story, and if the people here didn't take it so seriously. This is on top of the characters being saved by insane luck, several times in a row.

So I'm in the opinion that the author did the cliche mediocrely.
How so. The Soul Splice, when you boil it down, is Power.
V's goal all along has been "Ultimate Arcane Power". He achieves such power through a logical sequence of events, the battle (Where his Magic failed him) made him obsessed with proving that his magic could solve the problem of finding Haley. The Dragon made him desperate for the power, desperate enough to make a deal he probably shouldn't have made. The Power, once he got it, forced V to realize that the basic assumption behind his goal, that more power would solve his/her problems, was in fact false. Now V needs to re-evaluate his/her philosophy on life and the nature of power.

What dosn't make sense about that chain of events?

[spargel]

How so. The Soul Splice, when you boil it down, is Power.
V's goal all along has been "Ultimate Arcane Power". He achieves such power through a logical sequence of events, the battle (Where his Magic failed him) made him obsessed with proving that his magic could solve the problem of finding Haley. The Dragon made him desperate for the power, desperate enough to make a deal he probably shouldn't have made. The Power, once he got it, forced V to realize that the basic assumption behind his goal, that more power would solve his/her problems, was in fact false. Now V needs to re-evaluate his/her philosophy on life and the nature of power.

What dosn't make sense about that chain of events?

That's not the chain of events I was posting about, but ultimate arcane power is pretty much the way to solve most of the major current problems the OOTS has. The only problem is that it was given to an idiot. That was really the only problem she had with Xykon, other wise she could have won and then there wouldn't be this "need" to re-evaluate her philosophy on life and power.

And why did V go crazy after that battle anyways? His magic has failed her several times before, and she seemed to be perfectly fine. The strips we see right before the time skip show a pretty normal and unshaken V.

[BRC]

That's not the chain of events I was posting about, but ultimate arcane power is pretty much the way to solve most of the major current problems the OOTS has. The only problem is that it was given to an idiot. That was really the only problem she had with Xykon, other wise she could have won and then there wouldn't be this "need" to re-evaluate her philosophy on life and power.

And why did V go crazy after that battle anyways? His magic has failed her several times before, and she seemed to be perfectly fine. The strips we see right before the time skip show a pretty normal and unshaken V.
Because in those previous cases, things always turned out Okay. At the battle, V ran out of magic, and Azure City lost. Remember this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html) comic. Soldiers dieing begging V to save them with his/her magic, while V can do nothing but stand by and watch as they are killed.


I'd say more, But I really really should be studying for finals right now. So yeah.

[spargel]

Because in those previous cases, things always turned out Okay. At the battle, V ran out of magic, and Azure City lost. Remember this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0623.html) comic. Soldiers dieing begging V to save them with his/her magic, while V can do nothing but stand by and watch as they are killed.


Which completely contradicts how she reacts to Lien being captured and the other soldiers' deaths during that troll attack.

[Ridureyu]

Why are people angry about this plot twist? I find it really interesting.

[SPoD]

Which completely contradicts how she reacts to Lien being captured and the other soldiers' deaths during that troll attack.

It's called "denial." It's a common reaction. V was trying to convince herself that the failure at Azure City was insignificant, but her subconscious mind wasn't having any of it.

[mlkjhgfds]

The Order was not lured out into the desert just so Girard could mock them. Any GM who inflicted that on players would be beaten with a sock full of 4-siders. There is a clue here, somewhere.


I thought the reason the order got there so fast is they used the sandworm - basically an extended Dune joke - and usually out-of-universe reference fests aren't used to advance the main plot, right?

[GenPol]

Who's with me?

*cautiously raises hand*

I trust Rich completely, but I'd watch out for the swarms of Girard bashers....

[spargel]

It's called "denial." It's a common reaction.

V was trying to convince herself that the failure at Azure City was insignificant, but her subconscious mind wasn't having any of it.


Common in fantasy, maybe.

By the way, that can't be right because she acknowledges that Azure City was a big failure.

[Moff Chumley]

Trust Rich is my shtick. Stop stealing my shtick. :smallbiggrin:

[Giggling Ghast]

Common in fantasy, maybe.

Denial is only common in fantasy? Tell me, what colour is the sky in your world? It obviously bears no resemblance to the one I inhabit.

[The honest illusionist]

My favorite part? Even when everybody knows that gods exist, snotty jackasses still insist that religion contravenes logic.
He's not questioning their existence. He apparently believes they exist as much as Soon does.

But notice that the stickverse gods aren't infallible, omnipotent, or whatever. They're big dudes who happened to create the world (unless they ascend to godhood after the fact), hand out spells to clerics, and drunkenly paw godesses. If there are many gods with different ideologies, it's perfectly reasonable to disagree with one or all of them, as none of them would have a monopoly on the truth.

You'd also think it'd be fitting for someone who distrusts people with power to distrust the gods.

It also helps that the stickverse afterlife is determined by alignment, not piety or favor.

[oprishon]

... has *already* shown forth in these last few strips. I don't see why some of you haven't noticed it.

The whole series of jokes about the worm and the Dune parody looked to me to be completely pointless. I asked myself several times, what the heck was the point of all that? The jokes about Dune weren't even all that funny from my point of view. (Though that might just be because I hated the book.) It just seemed all too throwaway and not like Rich at all. Giving Belkar a new magic item for exactly two strips? What was the point?

But that's what's so brilliant.

The OOTS are trapped in the middle of the desert with no easy way back.

They left the caravan behind a long time ago. They used the spice to get a one-way trip into the middle of nowhere on the back of a worm that they now no longer have any control over. It will take WEEKS for them to find their way back to civilization - the same weeks that Xykon will need to find his phylactery again.

I wouldn't be surprised if there really were a scene switch now (either to the Linear Guild or to Xykon), and when we come back to our heroes in ten or fifteen strips' time we see them dragging themselves into a random desert encampment, exhausted and heatstroked after wandering the desert for weeks.

And Xykon will probably already be at the gate by then.

The whole worm story seemed so completely useless while it was there. It was only in retrospect that its impact on the story is fully realized. Had they left the caravan by foot, they'd still know approximately where it was in relation to them, and this trip to the desert would've been a minor detour. Now it's become a major setback.

[FFTGeist]

There are plenty of story possibilities.

For example...
In #695 the recorded message said that it informed both Girard and Serini.
Durokan was alive just a few years ago, so why couldn't Girard still be? (Or Serini)
Girard could contact the OotS and help them himself.
Possibly a #00 comic.or
Other posts have mentioned that the evil team will arrive right as the good team find the gate.
Why cant it work the other way around? and lastly
There are other story lines to consider.
In comic #670 there was a party of elves liberating Xykon's city.
They could join the current resistance, delay the finding of the phylactery (possibly even find it themselves) and buy time for the order to find the real gate.
No matter what has happened Rich has proven himself previously.
In the War and XPs book he mentioned that he had the entire siege of the city planned out even before the party even got there. (Or something similar to that)

Lets just see where this goes. We wouldn't still be reading if this wasn't a good story.

[snikrept]

r.e. gods: Girard isn't denying the existence of gods in their universe. He's mocking Soon's gods. There are three sets of gods for the OOTS world. Presumably, being a native of the west, Girard thinks his own gods (Marduk, Tiamat etc as mentioned in the creation story (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0273.html) told by Shojo) are superior.

[SurvivorX]

Well, I for one agree that Rich completely knows what he's doing. OotS is my #1 favorite webcomic (maybe #2 to Questionable Content...MAYYYBE) for a very good reason.

But I also find that so long as the creator of a given webcomic knows what he's doing (which Rich does), then no matter what the people in the forum speculate, no matter what sort of awesome, crazy theories they come up with, the webcomic creator will ALWAYS come up with something infinitely awesomer, cuz they just kick that much butt. ALWAYS.

Thus, logically, the awesomer and crazier the theories in the forums, the awesomer the actual story will be when it comes out! By posting all these ridiculous theory threads in the forums, we're causing the comic to be awesomer by simply abusing the way the world works!

[RecklessFable]

Who's with me?

HUZZAH!

I've been loving the strip ever since the entire band got back together. Less arc-plot, more banter. A great daily weekly read.

I'm saving up to buy the entire series in paperback so I can flip through it all over again.

[RandomWord]

And why did V go crazy after that battle anyways? His magic has failed her several times before, and she seemed to be perfectly fine. The strips we see right before the time skip show a pretty normal and unshaken V.
I'm going to disagree with the normal and unshaken bit, 478. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html) Look at V, hiding away from everyone, and only acknowledging Elan when he does to V. V looks very out of sorts to me in that strip.
That aside, V has never had his/her magic failed before. Or at least none I can remember. Also remember the Order has never failed this badly before, V could easily take that completely as a "It's my fault" kind of thing.

But then again i keep re-reading what you're saying, and I don't really get why I'm responding to you. Especially you claiming denial is only common in fantasy. I've got Psychiatrists who'll disagree with you there. Also, Do we really need to point out that this IS fantasy. or did the orcs confuse you?

[spargel]

I'm going to disagree with the normal and unshaken bit, 478. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0478.html) Look at V, hiding away from everyone, and only acknowledging Elan when he does to V. V looks very out of sorts to me in that strip.

V seems to be acting like her normal self. A little embarrassed and disappointed, but no signs of going insane.



That aside, V has never had his/her magic failed before. Or at least none I can remember. Also remember the Order has never failed this badly before, V could easily take that completely as a "It's my fault" kind of thing.


V's magic failures off the top of my head: Dark elf, end of Dorukan's dungeon, bandit sorceress, Miko, and that druid.



But then again i keep re-reading what you're saying, and I don't really get why I'm responding to you. Especially you claiming denial is only common in fantasy. I've got Psychiatrists who'll disagree with you there. Also, Do we really need to point out that this IS fantasy. or did the orcs confuse you?

Forget about that denial isn't common part; that was my mistake.

[RandomWord]

V seems to be acting like her normal self. A little embarrassed and disappointed, but no signs of going insane.
V seems very unsettled to me. And that's what I thought the first time I saw it.



V's magic failures off the top of my head: Dark elf, end of Dorukan's dungeon, bandit sorceress, Miko, and that druid.
I also coupled that with the massive defeat of the Order as a whole, but yeah. I would admit I am wrong in stating V has never failed, but again, V has also never failed this big before. V's failures never cost lives before.



Forget about that denial isn't common part; that was my mistake.
Yes well, I'll still mock you for it.

[Ronan]

I have faith in him as well

[spargel]

V seems very unsettled to me. And that's what I thought the first time I saw it.


That's what she might look like at first, and that looked more like embarrassment for running to me. The next few panels shows her being pretty normal, and the last few strips before the time skip show her being normal as well. The V goes insane part really seemed to have come from out of the blue.



I also coupled that with the massive defeat of the Order as a whole, but yeah. I would admit I am wrong in stating V has never failed, but again, V has also never failed this big before. V's failures never cost lives before.


I'm not sure how much V cares about random lives, considering her attitude towards the dirt farmers, the soldiers, and Lien. It always felt like it was more about her trying to feel competent and useful, which caused her to be angered when she found out that the rest of the Order was able to reunite without her rather than feel any joy at the reunion.

[Lord Seth]

Why are people angry about this plot twist? I find it really interesting.It's because of the amount of preparation it took to get them here--to what we thought was the next gate--only for it to turn out not to be the real gate, meaning we'll have to wait even longer to get to it. Given how long we had to wait for the party to get back together (which I felt took way too long), I'm not surprised that people are annoyed that again a twist is thrown in that'll make the story take longer to finish.

As for me? Well I do find it a bit odd but I'll have to see where it leads. If it leads to a whole lot of nothing, like Therkla's entire character arc, I'll be annoyed again. Hopefully instead it will lead to something that actually matters, like the Greysky City arc (which I wasn't really that fond of either, but at least something came of it).

[TheSummoner]

meaning we'll have to wait even longer to get to it. Given how long we had to wait for the party to get back together (which I felt took way too long), I'm not surprised that people are annoyed that again a twist is thrown in that'll make the story take longer to finish.

Life is a journey, not a destination. This comic is no different. If it ended tomorrow, would you really be satisfied? Sit back and enjoy the ride. :smallwink:

[Kallisti]

Rich has done a brilliant job so far, and he really does have a story to tell and the drive to tell it. Trust the Giant to tell his story. After all, if you don't trust him to tell a good story, why are you reading his comic?

[Doctor Xerox]

That's what she might look like at first, and that looked more like embarrassment for running to me. The next few panels shows her being pretty normal, and the last few strips before the time skip show her being normal as well. The V goes insane part really seemed to have come from out of the blue.Don't forget, there was a three month transition in which his magic failed over, and over, and over to find Haley. It was an extremely large failure, built upon by a hundred failures to right the situation, not to mention the constant nightmares he or she had that frightened/bothered him enough to keep from resting her most important organ.
I'm not sure how much V cares about random lives, considering her attitude towards the dirt farmers, the soldiers, and Lien. It always felt like it was more about her trying to feel competent and useful, which caused her to be angered when she found out that the rest of the Order was able to reunite without her rather than feel any joy at the reunion.I'm always questioning V's compassion for non-plot essential characters as well. It's obvious from the dream she has that she doesn't feel nothing for them, they're still living beings after all. He's still not the unsympathetic little jerk that Belkar is.

[Koretsu]

I'm not sure how much V cares about random lives, considering her attitude towards the dirt farmers, the soldiers, and Lien. It always felt like it was more about her trying to feel competent and useful, which caused her to be angered when she found out that the rest of the Order was able to reunite without her rather than feel any joy at the reunion.

There's a difference between feeling apathetic towards someone you don't know, and living with the knowledge (at least in V's mind) that countless people died, not simply because of your own inaction, but instead despite your best efforts to the contrary. The former could easily be justified in someone's mind with "It's not my fault - I wasn't involved.", where as the later would be a nagging knowledge that you chose to save these people, and despite that, they died anyway, because you weren't strong enough to save them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0504.html).

Look at the entire day from V's perspective in that battle. The elementals and the soldiers could be considered successes for V, but both of these instances had either V relying on magical items, a form of power that didn't stem from V. Furthermore, the soldiers were ultimately a failed effort in V's mind. That was a good 5 or 6 spells that V would consider "wasted". From that point on, nothing V could do worked. The Death Knight had to be dealt with through comedic intervention, as V was powerless to deal with the encounter on his own. He couldn't defend the boats from the Hobgoblins, and he couldn't find Haley despite months of trying.

[Lord Seth]

Life is a journey, not a destination. This comic is no different. If it ended tomorrow, would you really be satisfied? Sit back and enjoy the ride. :smallwink:Except, if the journey is taking too long (as it did when the party was split up for example) or going too fast (as it would be "if it ended tomorrow"), then there are problems.

I'm not going to call this out as things taking too long--yet. I'll see where it leads. I'm merely pointing out that after taking forever to get the party back together, and finally get going for the next gate, it could feel to some like a slap in the face to (apparently) throw in yet another twist designed to lengthen things out.

[SaintRidley]

It probably feels like it's taking so long more because we're reading at the speed of the update and not in a fully-collected book yet.

[spargel]

Don't forget, there was a three month transition in which his magic failed over, and over, and over to find Haley. It was an extremely large failure, built upon by a hundred failures to right the situation, not to mention the constant nightmares he or she had that frightened/bothered him enough to keep from resting her most important organ.


*sigh* I'll just go with the "lots of things can happen in three months" explanation then. V becoming insane came out of the blue, but it's one of the more believable things in that plot compared to the other problems I have with it.



I'm always questioning V's compassion for non-plot essential characters as well. It's obvious from the dream she has that she doesn't feel nothing for them, they're still living beings after all. He's still not the unsympathetic little jerk that Belkar is.

I thought that dream was more about how useless her magic was (It ends when a soldier tells her that her magic failed). During that part with the dirt farmers and right after the time skip, she pretty much didn't care about non-plot essential characters at all. She wasn't even happy when the Order reunited because she wasn't the one who got to reunite them.


There's a difference between feeling apathetic towards someone you don't know, and living with the knowledge (at least in V's mind) that countless people died, not simply because of your own inaction, but instead despite your best efforts to the contrary. The former could easily be justified in someone's mind with "It's not my fault - I wasn't involved.", where as the later would be a nagging knowledge that you chose to save these people, and despite that, they died anyway, because you weren't strong enough to save them.

Look at the entire day from V's perspective in that battle. The elementals and the soldiers could be considered successes for V, but both of these instances had either V relying on magical items, a form of power that didn't stem from V. Furthermore, the soldiers were ultimately a failed effort in V's mind. That was a good 5 or 6 spells that V would consider "wasted". From that point on, nothing V could do worked. The Death Knight had to be dealt with through comedic intervention, as V was powerless to deal with the encounter on his own. He couldn't defend the boats from the Hobgoblins, and he couldn't find Haley despite months of trying.

You pretty much just told me that V only cares about being competent, which was my point anyways.