Spellcraft and IDing spells

[Epinephrine]

What kind of penalties do you apply to identifying a spell?

You must be able to see or hear the spell's somatic or verbal components, so a silent and stilled spell isn't identifiable, right? (though if a guy was pointing a glass rod at me and holding a bit of fur in the other hand, and a bolt of lightning struck me, I'd have a feeling I knew what he cast...)

How much of a penalty is there if one of the components is left out (just stilled, or just silent)?

Do you add penalties for spot/listen? Hearing the words to a spell in the midst of a battle? In a windstorm? Seeing the gestures of someone with partial concealment 40 feet away?

Just curious how much of a penalty people apply for various factors.

Also, other than the skill trick False Theurgy, is there any way to fool people into thinking you cast a different spell? Would you allow someone casting a silent/stilled spell to fake another spell, to fool people (Spellcraft check to get the right gestures/words if it's not a spell they typically cast, Bluff check to fool the other person?)?

Thanks,

[reefwood]

What kind of penalties do you apply to identifying a spell?

You must be able to see or hear the spell's somatic or verbal components, so a silent and stilled spell isn't identifiable, right? (though if a guy was pointing a glass rod at me and holding a bit of fur in the other hand, and a bolt of lightning struck me, I'd have a feeling I knew what he cast...)

How much of a penalty is there if one of the components is left out (just stilled, or just silent)?
I've wondered about this myself. One thing that I noticed in the Spellcraft entry is that is says "somatic or verbal components," which indicates that you only need to see one or hear the other to identify the spell. Not both. I guess it makes sense that no two spells would have the exact same verbal component, so I don't see why somatic components would be the same either, and therefore, it makes sense that you can identify the spell with only one of them.



Do you add penalties for spot/listen? Hearing the words to a spell in the midst of a battle? In a windstorm? Seeing the gestures of someone with partial concealment 40 feet away?

Just curious how much of a penalty people apply for various factors.
Spells are cast with a strong voice, but there are certainly instances when it would be hard to see and hear. A spell with a verbal and somatic component cast by someone invisible would receive no penalty since you can still hear the verbal component, or if you have been deafened but can see the caster, it's all good too. However, when there is a factor that hampers the senses you need, well, there is the basic rule (DMG, pg 30) of adding +2 to the DC or imposing a -2 penalty on the check (but not both) when you need to make an adjustment like this. I guess technically speaking, if it is harder to see or hear, it would make sense to add the +2 to the DC.



Also, other than the skill trick False Theurgy, is there any way to fool people into thinking you cast a different spell? Would you allow someone casting a silent/stilled spell to fake another spell, to fool people (Spellcraft check to get the right gestures/words if it's not a spell they typically cast, Bluff check to fool the other person?)?

So, do you mean make a Spellcraft check to cast the spell without messing it up because you are pretending to cast something else and a Bluff check to make that something else look plausible? I think this may be up to the DM to allow, or not allow. Casting spells seems like pretty sensitive business, so if you don't do the exact components, I could see the spell simply not working. Although, you could pretend to cast a spell... maybe a Bluff check (vs. Sense Motive), and a Sleight of Hand check (vs. Spot) if a material component is required that normally gets used up by the spell.