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MichielHagen
2009-12-17, 08:10 AM
I am currently building a level 12 character in D&D 3.5.

I know i am going to play a Swordsage and i will most likely play a Whisper Gnome, but i would like to add something to the character.

The base i am working with:

Whisper Gnome Swordsage 12
Feats: Shadow Blade, Dark Stalker, Adaptive Style, Weapon Finesse, .....
I will probably use a single dagger. Battle would go something like:
1. Hide and delay
2. When an opponent is within reach, move action teleport to the opponent, Greater Insightful Strike him, use Moment of Alacrity to get ahead in the order of this opponent.
3. Use Cloak of Deception, attack the opponent again with a standard action (Elder Mountain Hammer?), move safely away and hide.

Options i am considering:
Warblade 2/Swordsage 10
I would still get 6th level maneuvers and i get 3 more maneuvers from Warblade (probably the Concentration for saves) which frees up higher maneuvers for the Swordsage slots.
Also Full BAB, Uncanny Dodge, decent skills and high HP. Probably a strong choice, were it not that is costs me a feat to prevent XP-penalty.

Ranger 2/Swordsage 10
This would give me some good flavor/background.
I get a Favored Enemy, Track and Two-weapon Fighting. The last would change my fighting style and use some Tiger Claw Maneuvers.
I also get Search and Spot as class skills, which i would like to add to my character.
Again an XP-penalty.

Rogue 2/Swordsage 10
Although it would be in flavor and no XP-penalty i dont feel it adds much.

Beguiler 2/Swordsage 10
I dont seem to find spells i like in the list.

Warlock 2/Swordsage 10
Detect Magic fits well with the Swordsage, and there are some nice invocations to supplement the character.

Fighter 2/Swordsage 10
Too boring

Psychic Warrior 2/Swordsage 10
I didn't find powers that i really wanted. I would end up using "Vigor".

Dark Template + Swordsage 11
The level-loss hurts, but the extras might be worth it.

Does anyone have other suggestions. A class/prc/template/race that would add some fun to the character. Not neccesarily powerful.

<edit> by the way, are there options to add skills to your class skills?

Optimystik
2009-12-17, 08:21 AM
How about a prestige class? Maybe Shadow Sun Ninja or something. What level are you planning on playing the character to? 20?

MichielHagen
2009-12-17, 08:32 AM
Depends on when i die, if history repeats i'd give myself lvl 15.

A prc is definitely an option (i mentioned it). I just didnt find any, but i may not have looked at the Shadowsun Ninja well enough, i will try again.

The White Knight
2009-12-17, 08:44 AM
Rogue 8/Swordsage 2/Rogue 2

Take Craven (1st level) for extra sneak attack damage; Weapon Finesse (3rd level) for dex to hit; Combat Reflexes (6th level) for lots of AoO's; Shadow Blade (at 9th level) for Dex to damage; Opportunist and Savvy Rogue (at 12th level) to be able to AoO your opponent pretty much every time your flanking buddy hits him. Be sure to take the Penetrating Strike alternate class feature for Rogue if you can (Dungeonscape; replaces Trapsense, lets you sneak attack crit-immune targets, but only for half SA damage).

If you can get away with Feycraft weapons (DMG 2), you can drop Weapon Finesse for something like Telling Blow (crits now become sneak attacks) or TWF. Either way, I recommend using Keen Aptitude (to be counted as daggers for Shadow Blade) Kukri(s); if you took Telling Blow, you'll see more crit-to-SA conversion, and if you didn't, you'll still see more multiplication of that sexy Dex-to-damage and character-level-to-damage you're getting from Shadow Hand and Craven respectively.

(When I built this for myself I was playing a Human, so I had both Telling Blow and TWF in my roster; I was also two levels higher, so I took two levels of Fighter for Improved Initiative and Improved TWF)

For Swordsage maneuvers/stances, be sure to take Cloak of Deception for occasional invisibility, Shadow Jaunt for occasional short range teleportation, and Assassin's Stance for an extra +2d6 sneak attack damage. Fill up the rest with whatever 1-3rd level maneuvers you like best; I'm a fan of the Diamond Soul counters that let you make Concentration checks in place of your weak saves.

Pump Dex into the high heavens for commensurate to-hit, damage and AC. If you can afford to boost Wis a bit, your AC (and will save!) will love you for it; and if you take more SS levels down the road, you'll be able to add it to damage when executing strikes of a certain discipline.

Emmerask
2009-12-17, 09:04 AM
or take intuitive attack instead of weapon finesse and make wis your primary stat increasing your will save, ac and tohit :smallbiggrin:

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-17, 10:30 AM
I know it sounds blasphemous, but take a class with Wis as a baseline. I suggest highly a dip in either monk or ninja for stealthy/melee, or Cleric for caster and buff. I say Cleric as primary and swordsage as a level dip. Use Martial Study in Devoted Spirit, then focus on Setting Sun and Shadow Hand, finally leaping headlong into Shadow Sun Ninja. Pick a deity of Luck and Trickery and take the luck feats. I suggest going into FR for deity or Olidamara. Race wise, Vanara from OA is the first 0la that comes to mind. or a halflling/gnome could work too. Mabye even take the "Holy Assassin" PrC from BoED for flavor only.

Overall, I feel that Swordsage is a combo platter from Hell. Almost a Jack of All Trades, considering Disciplines...

Person_Man
2009-12-17, 10:52 AM
Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) is always popular. Boost your Wis, get plenty of Skills, and use your floating feat for Martial Stance or Study so that you can choose a new stance each morning. Also, like an Archivist, a Chameleon can use Cleric, Druid, Blackguard, Paladin, Ranger, domain, an PrC spells, but without the need for a prayer book. Many 3rd and 4th level Blackguard/Paladin/Ranger spells are the equivalent of 5th or 6th level Cleric spells (the easiest example is Holy Sword (www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holySword.htm), but the splat books are filled with them).

I'm also very fond of a 1 level dip into Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3), as it gives you access to every Exotic Weapon, which can be awesome (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266526).

Swordsage/Warmind is pretty potent as well, and can be Wis SAD. As Emmerask suggests, you should definitely take Intuitive Attack.

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-17, 02:11 PM
Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1) is always popular. Boost your Wis, get plenty of Skills, and use your floating feat for Martial Stance or Study so that you can choose a new stance each morning. Also, like an Archivist, a Chameleon can use Cleric, Druid, Blackguard, Paladin, Ranger, domain, an PrC spells, but without the need for a prayer book. Many 3rd and 4th level Blackguard/Paladin/Ranger spells are the equivalent of 5th or 6th level Cleric spells (the easiest example is Holy Sword (www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holySword.htm), but the splat books are filled with them).

I'm also very fond of a 1 level dip into Master of Masks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=3), as it gives you access to every Exotic Weapon, which can be awesome (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5266526).

Swordsage/Warmind is pretty potent as well, and can be Wis SAD. As Emmerask suggests, you should definitely take Intuitive Attack.

I tend to agree

Haven
2009-12-17, 02:52 PM
Considering the other options you're looking at, and the style of fighting you say you prefer, you should definitely check out the Shadow Sun Ninja. Their entire fighting style is what you describe, except that when they jump from the shadows at their opponents, they blind him with a burst of light (that's the level 4 ability; the other ones are at least as spiffy if not more so).

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-17, 02:53 PM
sounds like a halloween night with my buddie's ex...

She'd leap from the shadows and blind people with her "headlights"