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quiet1mi
2009-12-17, 11:37 PM
So while building a low level character I realized that the paladin functions similar to a combat medic...

He heals just enough to stabilize allies, and protect his friends...

Can anyone point me in the right direction for feats, skills or builds...

Mushroom Ninja
2009-12-17, 11:39 PM
So does a cleric.

quiet1mi
2009-12-17, 11:39 PM
I am aware, but I need to be in a lower tier so no cleric...

Mushroom Ninja
2009-12-17, 11:44 PM
I am aware, but I need to be in a lower tier so no cleric...

Oh. Well in that case, I agree with you. Paladin can be a decent team medic.

I'd suggest stocking up on CLW wands.

SurlySeraph
2009-12-17, 11:46 PM
The Battle Blessing feat, which makes all of your paladin spells swift actions, is awesomesauce for a casting-oriented paladin.

You'll want high Charisma for your Lay On Hands.

I think there's a class called Combat Medic in Heroes of Battle, but I know nothing about it.

Tavar
2009-12-17, 11:47 PM
You could try and talk the DM into allowing the serenity feat: changes your Cha abilities to Wis.

Also, if homebrew is allowed, you might try Fax's How it Should be Paladin.

Temotei
2009-12-17, 11:51 PM
The Battle Blessing feat, which makes all of your paladin spells swift actions, is awesomesauce for a casting-oriented paladin.

You'll want high Charisma for your Lay On Hands.

I think there's a class called Combat Medic in Heroes of Battle, but I know nothing about it.

The combat medic is a prestige class in Heroes of Battle, requiring Dodge and Combat Casting, eight ranks in Heal, four ranks in Concentration, any alignment other than evil (which isn't a problem for the paladin, obviously, unless you're playing as a paladin of tyranny or something), and the cure light wounds spell.

Basically, the class provides some bonuses to healing, and some defensive capabilities so you can survive while healing.

sonofzeal
2009-12-17, 11:57 PM
I'd go for Favoured Soul over Paladin for this, if they're still in. Crusaders also make good combat medics.

quiet1mi
2009-12-18, 12:26 AM
again Low tier... Full BAB allows me to put the Combat back into Combat Medic....

Is there any feats that allow me to take advantage of a Full Bab?

I was thinking about going the shield route with personman's guide to shields... This would be a little bit survivable.

Ernir
2009-12-18, 12:29 AM
Bards can work too. Make sure you look at War Weaver (Heroes of Battle). :smallbiggrin:

I second the suggestion of Crusader and Favoured Soul, if those are allowed.

quiet1mi
2009-12-18, 03:08 AM
I got to stick to Paladin...

Stormageddon
2009-12-18, 03:27 AM
"hands of the healer" from book of exalted deeds for a boost to your lay on hands.

Myrmex
2009-12-18, 05:27 AM
I am aware, but I need to be in a lower tier so no cleric...

A low level cleric is in about the same tier as a paladin. If you prepare mostly buff spells and/or drop prepared spells for healing, you can maintain a low profile. You can also pick suboptimal domains, like Healing.

Unless, of course, there's a blanket "no tier X classes" in effect, in which case ignore me. :smallredface:

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-18, 05:51 AM
"Spontaneous Healer" from Complete Divine might be a nice feat to have for those moments when you're out of wand charges and need a cure spell right now.

It requires four (five? I forget) ranks in Knowledge (Religion), the ability to cast divine spells and any nonevil alignment. It lets you spontaneously convert prepared spells into Cure spells, just like a good cleric.

It's pretty much designed for healing-oriented paladins and rangers.

And druids.

Spirit shamans can get some good use out of it too, depending on how you read the feat...

BobVosh
2009-12-18, 05:57 AM
Pathfinder paladin is a very strong base class. Lots of healing via channel. Swift action lay on hands for sneak attack progression healing to yourself. A much better version of smite. Wisdom casting moved to charisma.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/classes/paladin.html#paladin

Grushvak
2009-12-18, 01:17 PM
Isn't there a way to turn a warlock's Eldritch Blasts into healing blasts? I figure that would make for a badass battle medic.

I'd give that character a german accent and have him shout once in a while that his über is ready.

Tavar
2009-12-18, 01:20 PM
If you take the eldritch disciple's healing blast ability, yes. Requires a turn undead to use, and because of the PrC's restrictions, you have to worship a Chaotic or evil deity.

erikun
2009-12-18, 01:25 PM
Well, if your game is acceptable to homebrew, there is this class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133118).

Grushvak
2009-12-18, 01:29 PM
If you take the eldritch disciple's healing blast ability, yes. Requires a turn undead to use, and because of the PrC's restrictions, you have to worship a Chaotic or evil deity.

A turn undead? What?

How can a warlock get an acceptable pool of turn undead attempts to power this ability? I don't get it.

EDIT: Well there's always nightsticks, of course, but if you're using nightsticks to EB-heal, you might as well cut the middle-man, save yourself one level in Eldritch Disciple, and just buy wands.

Riffington
2009-12-18, 01:31 PM
Stupid question:
Wands take the time to use as the spell's casting time.
With Battle Blessing, can a Paladin use a wand as a swift action?

jiriku
2009-12-18, 01:41 PM
@ Grushvak: by multi-classing into cleric. Eldritch disciple is a dual-caster progression class for cleric/warlocks.

@ the OP: I'd recommend the mounted combat feats (Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, Ride-By Attack) and heavy reliance on your mount. You may wish to take a small race on a medium-sized mount so that you can fit in cramped corridors. The mount will get you the mobility to reach fallen allies quickly, while mounted charges with a lance will deal very respectable damage while still allowing you the protection of a shield. You will be a very solidly effective combatant without needing help from your spells; thus you can reserve your spells for healing as needed.

An unfortunate drawback is that you'll basically be effective ONLY at charging things and healing people, but them's the breaks.

Person_Man
2009-12-18, 03:09 PM
Hellreaver: Full BAB Charisma based prestige class from Fiendish Codex II. It's best ability is that it can heal itself or any good ally within a short range 10, 20, or 30 hit points (depending on your Hellreaver level) every round of combat as a Swift action. Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Paladin of Freedom 4/Hellreaver X is an excellent tank and combat medic build.

As others have said, Crusader is an excellent option.

If you just want an excellent Paladin, then the key is your Special Mount. They can be optimized a number of ways (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6985038). Which option you take depends on your overall build goals. I would suggest strait Paladin 20 with Leadership for a cool mount. Then take a look at the domain and divine feats (Divine Might, Travel Devotion, Animal Devotion, etc) plus Battle Blessing and Sword of the Arcane Order.

arguskos
2009-12-18, 03:15 PM
Hellreaver: Full BAB Charisma based prestige class from Fiendish Codex II. It's best ability is that it can heal itself or any good ally within a short range 10, 20, or 30 hit points (depending on your Hellreaver level) every round of combat as a Swift action. Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Paladin of Freedom 4/Hellreaver X is an excellent tank and combat medic build.
I'd like to second Hellreaver. I recently had a Knight 5/Hellreaver 6 as an NPC in a game of mine, and he was great. Dude was hard as hell to kill, Hellreaver was AMAZING with the Furious Strike and Divine Succor abilities, and Knight was hilariously great fun. Hamil was a fun character. Hellreaver would fit on a Paladin as well I'd think, better probably.

Also, Person_Man, why the Pounce Barb in that build? Just so you don't have to take Paladin 5?

Keld Denar
2009-12-18, 03:37 PM
Everybody loves Pounce. If you have full BAB, you should have Pounce some how. The extra 2-3 attacks are so worth it. Heck, even at lowish levels with Haste, Pounce is worth it, since you can only get your Hasty attack while full attacking.

Pounce is just that important because full attacks are just that important, unless you are using Strikes.

Also, since you DO have full BAB and a decent Cha mod, Power Attack and either Divine Might or Law Devotion would be pretty awesome, giving you offense in a pinch while still keeping most of your abilities free to aide your allies. As a Barb1/Pal4/HellreaverX, you're ability to actually turn undead is gonna be terrible, so my might as well channel that divine energy into doing other stuff. You'd have to take Chaos Devotion with this build, which is slightly worse than Law Devotion, but not much. That or fall back on Divine Might, although Divine Might works best when you (again) can full attack, making Pounce vital.

Person_Man
2009-12-18, 04:38 PM
Also, Person_Man, why the Pounce Barb in that build? Just so you don't have to take Paladin 5?

Several reasons:

1) If you're a melee build with 2+ attacks per round, then you want Pounce, free movement, and/or a lot of reach. Otherwise you often end up losing an attack, reducing your overall combat effectiveness by 50% or more some rounds.

2) Pounce in particular is good for Charge builds (Leap Attack, Shock Trooper, Divine Might, etc).

3) As you observed, there's no reason to take a 5th level of Paladin unless you're going to use your Special Mount. I for one love the Special Mount, but Hellreaver doesn't progress it. Thus Paladin 4/Anything 1 is better then Paladin 5.

4) Hellreaver gets immunity to Fear. So does your standard LG Paladin. So Paladin of Freedom (CG) for immunity to Compulsion is a better choice, and the fluff of PoF goes well with Barbarian.

5) In addition to Pounce, Barbarian 1 also gives you Rage 1 per day, which is a nifty extra, and synergizes well with the Hellreaver's abilities.

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-18, 04:46 PM
So while building a low level character I realized that the paladin functions similar to a combat medic...

He heals just enough to stabilize allies, and protect his friends...

Can anyone point me in the right direction for feats, skills or builds...


I once made a healy paladin... i wanted to focus on Lay on hands and what not.

Regardless heal paladins should take the healing reserve feat..

Also from BOED hands of the healer... (counts as charisma +2 for determining lay on hands.)
I see you havn't chosen a race if you pick elf i know there is the ranged smite variant, you could then go into the elf paladin prc from races of wild(can't remeember name atm) which stacks lay on hands.


Some PRC's that stack with lay on hands.
Divine champion-pritty decent
Hospitaler - not a fan



I would do something like
elf paladin7 (with or without sub levels )/elf paladin prc 3/Divine Champion x then the rest paladin.

arguskos
2009-12-18, 04:46 PM
I figured it worked out to be: Barb 1 is a good level; Pal 5 sucks; take Barb 1 already! :smallcool:

Just wondered if that was it, or you had some super secret "I'm Person_Man and I rock" reason. :smallwink:

Also, because I fail sometimes, what's the source on the Totem Barbarians? C. Champ?

Person_Man
2009-12-18, 05:03 PM
Also, because I fail sometimes, what's the source on the Totem Barbarians? C. Champ?

This is correct.

Keld Denar
2009-12-18, 05:04 PM
Totem Barbarians are in Unearthed Arcana, and for the most part, suck (except Wolf and Bear which grant Improved Trip and Improved Grab respectively).

SPIRIT Totem Barbarians are in Complete Champion, and for the most part, suck, except for Spirit Lion, which grants Pounce.

Pluto
2009-12-18, 05:40 PM
At low levels, you might want a few Blessed Bandages from the MIC.

They're 10gp items that stabilize as a standard action with no failure chance.

Nothing incredible, but they've definitely cut down the amount of time my group spends on character introductions over the first couple sessions.

quiet1mi
2009-12-19, 02:05 AM
At low levels, you might want a few Blessed Bandages from the MIC.

They're 10gp items that stabilize as a standard action with no failure chance.

Nothing incredible, but they've definitely cut down the amount of time my group spends on character introductions over the first couple sessions.

Thanks, I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of battlefield control using a Paladin, this is for a new DM, so I am stepping out of my box of skill monkey....

However I love playing a support character and would love to play a combat medic...

The Idea is that I would use my Lay on hands ability to stabilize my friends, in addition to adding ranks in HEAL so that I could provide saves against both poison and disease.

The Combat part is to rely not on damage (because there are better sources...) but battlefield control... I was wondering if people could point me in the right direction regarding this.

Again this is for a newer DM so keep it simple. I was thinking Power attack, Imp. Bullrush, and Imp. Overrun because it allows me to get enemies off of my allies or knock enemies down...

Is there anything else or have I uncovered all there could be with a Paladin & Battlefield Control? :Sarcasm: :smalltongue:

RagnaroksChosen
2009-12-19, 02:32 AM
Thanks, I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of battlefield control using a Paladin, this is for a new DM, so I am stepping out of my box of skill monkey....

However I love playing a support character and would love to play a combat medic...

The Idea is that I would use my Lay on hands ability to stabilize my friends, in addition to adding ranks in HEAL so that I could provide saves against both poison and disease.

The Combat part is to rely not on damage (because there are better sources...) but battlefield control... I was wondering if people could point me in the right direction regarding this.

Again this is for a newer DM so keep it simple. I was thinking Power attack, Imp. Bullrush, and Imp. Overrun because it allows me to get enemies off of my allies or knock enemies down...

Is there anything else or have I uncovered all there could be with a Paladin & Battlefield Control? :Sarcasm: :smalltongue:

Power attack and improved trip... is better.

Keld Denar
2009-12-19, 02:42 AM
If you take Improved Trip, you can get a nice combo. There is a feat in Complete Champion called Awesome Smite. It empowers your Smite to do a couple extra tricks, including bypassing DR, bypassing concealment, and knocking foes down. When the smite triggers a trip attempt and you suceed, it grants an extra attack. This is totally legit, unlike the Knockdown + Improved Trip trick which is only mostly legit, given that they errated it in the 3.0 version, but that errata misteriously never made it into the 3.5 version.

The Int requirement might kill you though, especially if you are doing point buy, since you'll need a high Str to trip, a decent Con, a decent Wis, a high Cha, and a bare minimum of 13 Dex if you want Combat Reflexes. Talk about MAD...

quiet1mi
2009-12-19, 01:16 PM
We are doing point buy 28 points... I am still scratching my head over how much to invest and in what to make a support paladin...

I was thinking...

Strength: 13
Dexterity: 10
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 10
Wisdom: 13
Charisma: 15


This will give me enough strength to qualify for Power Attack, In addition to Imp. Overrun (Knocks People Prone), and Imp. Bullrush...

The Charisma being left at 15 was so it could be bumped to 16 at 4th level...

Personally I do not think I need the 10 Dexterity but seeing that negative on dexterity related things like initiative bothers me.

Constitution may need to be a 14 but there is not a huge deal between 27 Hp and 24 HP, then again 3 hp could determine if I am conscious enough to stabilize my allies and continue fighting.