Fun with Evil Law

[JJ_Rhodes]

I will soon be running an evil alignment D&D 4th ed game with some good old dark humor.

The PCs will be working for a powerful evil empire with some rules out of the evil overlord list.

I would like to see peoples ideas for amusing laws crimes and (most important) punishments that the players would be obligated to hand out.

Some things I came up with.

crime/punishment

not paying taxes/slave labor
not serving in the army/conscription into army
being a Kender/Death

[Optimystik]

Conduct experiments on the citizens - alchemical and magical - under the guise of "improving their lives." Recruit the resulting abominations.

Sow distrust in the citizens - have "Listeners" strewn throughout the populace who report any seeds of rebellion before they can sprout.

[Herbstfarben]

Have a fake resistance group, which consists solely of your spies.

[Megaduck]

The trick with writing Evil laws is that you want them just evil enough to be annoying but not so evil that your characters promptly break them.

I happen to like Hygine ones.

Spreading pox/having offending parts washed with lye.
Cheating at Dice/Nail through hand.
Failure to properly dispose of animal waste/being forced to eat it.

[Giegue]

Yeah, as far as arcane magic gose, necormancy should be perfectly legal and respected magical practice rather then a reviled and hated discipline. Also, if you want a little bit of humor, necromancers could have their undead doing society's menial tasks such as garbage collecting, street cleaning ect...

As for some other laws, everybody must worship evil gods, if they do not, they are burned at the stake for being heretics.

Another good one would be that everybody has mandatory service to the evil overlord in some way for a set number of years.

[dsmiles]

murder/public drawing and quartering
rape/public castration
theft/public branding

even Evil societies generally have laws against getting caught at these.

[Foryn Gilnith]

not paying taxes/slave labor

That's a biggy. You need more revenue, so milk the hated of society. Nobody will dislike you terribly for it, as opposed to heavy taxes which will inspire loathing.

Murder? Confiscate all the guy's belongings, slave-drive him until he dies.
Rape? Confiscate all the guy's belongings, slave-drive him until he dies.
Treason? Confiscate all the guy's belongings, slave-drive him until he dies.
Theft? Fine him, slave-drive him until he collapses.

No need to be so wasteful by using traditional capital punishment.

[bosssmiley]

Have a fake resistance group, which consists solely of your spies.

That was one of the sub-plots in Tom Sharpe's Riotous Assembly IIRC. The all-infiltrator terrorist cell ended up egging each other on so much they fed the ostriches in Jo'burg zoo explosives, and then letting them wander off into the streets ticking, all while the schizophrenics at the local asylum re-enacted Rourkes Drift in full period costume. Good times. :smallamused:

The way to make an evil system of law entertaining is to play up the blind, lumbering absurdity of it. Watch Brazil, read some Kafka or Jo Heller's Catch 22.

[Telonius]

Once I drew up plans for an evil kingdom run by devil accountants. Taxes always increased, but all prices for all goods were set by the devils, and never went up. The punishment for inflation was death.

[JeenLeen]

I agree with the above about needing laws that do keep order (theft/rape/murder being illegal and heavily and harshly frowned upon). The laws should be such that the nation can act diplomatically with others (even if their long-term goal is conquest.)

So necromancy and worship of evil deities is the norm. Maybe neutral dieties and, in very cosmopolitan areas, good deities are tolerated, just as I've heard Hextor probably has temples in larger D&D cities that are predominately good. The farmers and such probably don't know enough theology to realize a relevant difference between their "god of order" (as they probably know the LE god) and Heironneous, although the axioms and general attitudes of people would reflect it.

I could see citizenship being linked with military service and/or bloodlines. To be a noble you have to serve in the military for x number of years. Peasants and some of the merchant class are technically slaves or serfs, but that doesn't necessarily mean much. Merchants can become nobility through pleasing the leaders and military service. Nobles with high blood -- royals? -- don't have to do the military service. (Since they make the rules, make them in their favor.)

I remind myself after writing all that that you wanted primarily fun crimes and punishments, so a less serious game. Maybe some uppity nobles are trying to reform LE politics by the above, so you need to enforce the traditional LE methodologies?

[Choco]

That's a biggy. You need more revenue, so milk the hated of society. Nobody will dislike you terribly for it, as opposed to heavy taxes which will inspire loathing.

Murder? Confiscate all the guy's belongings, slave-drive him until he dies.
Rape? Confiscate all the guy's belongings, slave-drive him until he dies.
Treason? Confiscate all the guy's belongings, slave-drive him until he dies.
Theft? Fine him, slave-drive him until he collapses.

No need to be so wasteful by using traditional capital punishment.

Agreed. Capital punishment is such a waste if you can make better use of the "subjects". Why kill off a perfectly good potential slave/research subject? Unless of course the person would be more useful as an undead of some sort.

Back on topic...

Violent crimes of any sort could be "punished" by conscription into the army (may as well target your aggressions at enemies!)

Also a fun idea would be to smuggle capital offenders into enemy nations. May as well dump your trash on your enemies to weaken them before the invasion :smallamused: Also would allow intelligent people a way to escape the country, and what a hilarious situation it would be if the oppressed population found out :smallbiggrin:

[DemonicAngel]

Don't forget gladiator battles! nothing funnier then to see that provocateur trying to fight an owlbear

[JeenLeen]

Violent crimes of any sort could be "punished" by conscription into the army (may as well target your aggressions at enemies!)


The Sword of Truth book series has an army made up of mostly stupid brutes, sent from their home country to invade the rest of the world. It's also what could be considered a LE empire. The logic used by the nation is pretty sick, but the absurdities underlying could be comical if put into a different context.

[Subotei]

As well as punishments, there should be large rewards for citizens who report on their fellow citizens - nothing like not being able to trust your friends and family to create a bit of soviet-era paranoia....

[Ormur]

Maybe different rules for different classes. The punishment for everything poor people do is slavery and the punishment for everything slaves do is death. Nobles would get a slap on the hand for killing peasants but they'd be chopped up if they killed a fellow noble. Of course people wouldn't be equal before the law, they have a hierarchy to enforce.

All sorts of silly draconian laws for personal matters, laws that discriminate between species, laws that punish for crimes that hurt the ruling class. If it's a magocracy, then attacking familiars or setting up antimagic fields could be punishable by death. Everyone has to bow to nobles, applaud the king etc.

[Shademan]

and of course,paladins are STRICktlY outlawed

[Radar]

If one wants an evil empire based on the Evil Overlord's List, then it would actually benefit the citizens (in a way), because the only real threat are the adventurers, not your potentially loyal citizens. Example:

- heroes are often orphans with tragic backstory -> set up a national orphange (rule 69.) and adoption system (forced if needed, but with benefits): some couple is modertly rich, but they don't have any children? They are ordered to adopt one or more, but they get some tax benefits. Oh, and check back on this family now and then, to see, if they take a good care of their children.

- people are less likely to rebel or scheme against you, if they gain benefits from your rules -> cue public healthcare, obligatory pension fund and education (never underestimate the power of indocrination).

Generally think of a heavily social coutry, but sort of aggresive in applying those social benefits and ideas.

Also:
- the emperor has to have an obligatory five-year-old advisor (often changed due to aging). There can be yearly contests for preschool children, to become emperor's advisor for a few weeks.

As a LE the emperor doesn't pursue evil for evil's sake. He just allways chooses the most efficient way, to further his selfish (or even not) goals.

Other interesting implications of the EO list:
- death penalty should allways be applied swiftly and any official statment of one's crimes should be read after the final punishment. ("The guy, we just decapitated was found guilty of...").
- Legions of Doom should have very stylish uniforms (rule 21.) and take regular marksmenship courses (56.).
- rules 29. and 30. could be fun to implement. :smallsmile:
- rule 98. has some interesting implications too.

[Randel]

I watched a documentary about Vlad the Impaler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_impaler) a while ago, he had some interesting ways of handling things:

1. Treat the nobles with MUCH worse punishments than the peasants, peasants have next to no power to overthrow the ruler but nobles do. Thus, if nobles start flaunting their power or acting tough then TAKE THEM DOWN! Favorite punishments against nobles included (but was by no means limited to) stripping them of all their belongings, stripping them of all their clothes, forcing them to work themselves to death building a castle or some other building, wait until they are dead (read: not working themselves to death anymore), then cut up their bodies and feed them to the other naked nobles working themselves to death. Entire families of those nobles would be punished along with them.

2. Take all the bums, homeless, and starving in the country and give them a nice meal in a nice house somewhere... then lock and bar all the doors and set the place on fire! Anyone who escapes (read: nobody) is then either executed by being impaled on a stake in a public place or forced to work themselves to death.

3. Criminals are publicly executed via stripping off all their clothes and impaling them on wooded stakes in a public place. The stakes are all sharpened and oiled so that the victim doesn't die quickly. According to records, people who die via stake generally die from dehydration after a couple days! Then they just leave them to rot for a while.

The 'forests' of impaled dead and dying served multiple purposes. First, it convinces thieves to seek another line of employment (read: people thinking of becoming thieves seek another line of employment, people who are already thieves are either getting the hell out of Wallachia or are impaled on a wooden stake).

Also, there have been at least one case where invaders came in to tae over the country... saw the rows of dead and dying, women, men and children on stakes and thought that they had taken a wrong turn and accidentally went to HELL. They promptly turned around. This didn't work a second time, unfortunately.



Also, you might not want to use undead as a public workforce. Zombies are generally under the control of the necromancer who creates them. An evil overlord doesn't always want someone walking around with all those undead under their direct mental control. Plus, if the necromancer is killed (say, executed for trying to cast domination spells on the evil overlord. Or slain by a plucky adventurer who gets past the defences. Or they have a heart attack after getting a girlfriend after being 97 years old.) then all those zombies have their mental connection thing severed and are either useless for labor or actively rampaging among the populace.

You need safety measures for these things.


In essesnce, a decent Evil Overlord has different castes of people and they are judged differently, generally more powerful ones are treated harsher for crimes then weaker ones. So nobles with lots of money and connections (who have a decent shot at overthrowing the overlord) get punished real bad if they mess up. Orcs or trolls who are stronger than normal humans are thus put under alot more scrutiny (you kind of want to treat them better than the 'good guys' but don't let them think for a second that they can terrorize the farmers that provide food for everyone).

Adventurers would fit somewhere around nobles or monsters in terms of their strength or power (thus, keep an eye on adventurers who look like they will start barfights or especially if they want to overthrow the evil overlord). If there are any dungeons or places full of loot then the state gets first dibs on everything (adventurers would pretty much be looting national treasures) so again keep track of adventurers.

Plus, you do need healing for people so as for religions it would probably be more a case of letting clerics know that you won't let them start trouble. If the peasants already have a god or two they are really fond of then thats the gods they worship. People who come in and try to convert everyone or start trouble get a visit from the cops. Good, evil, or neutral all religions ar welcome as long as they don't preach about stuff that causes trouble... oh, and a god of thieves? Not. Gonna. Happen.


Spellcasters would probably be conscripted into the nations army or face execution (or getting their hands and tongue cut off so they can't cast spells... then executed because they are now useless cripples). And be required to cast a few spells or work on magic items every once in a while for the state. Teaching the arcane arts would be important because of how powerful magic is, but wizards are kept under control and signs of them getting uppity results in swift punishment. The ideal wizard in an evil overlords empire is one who is not going to go Emperor Tippy on everyone... though the Create Food and Water traps are nice.

The important thing is to make sure that its the Evil Overlord who has the power, upstarts get taken down quickly. The peasants are no real threat and in fact help keep up the infastructure that keeps the Overlord in power. They get Bread and Circuses (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BreadAndCircuses) to keep them happy and are protected.

[Ormur]

I'd figure you'd have to have allies among the populace that you treat better in order to stay in power. If you go on a rampage, conquering the neighbors you can share the wealth in your home country and make yourself popular but eventually you'll have to consolidate or there's nothing left to conquer and then you have to pit people against each other. It depends on how revolutionary your government is.

If you pick favourites, make it the class that was second in power before your rise because then they'll be dependent on you the keep the other classes in check. In a country with powerful nobles you could give the city merchants more political power and vice versa in a country ruled by merchants. Don't give the peasants power, that smacks of chaotic good and is liable to get both the nobles and the merchants up against you.

[Danin]

"For truth is often strange. Stranger than fiction..." - S

While I mean in no way to imply that these are characteristic of nor references to real world Lawful Evil societies, these are a few highly successful ways of ruling an empire that evolved from history.

In the Ottoman empire, Emperor Saladin bought slaves at a young age, about 4 - 8, and raised them for 16 years. These children were given good lives, an extensive education in all things (including the arts, world religions, politics, leadership and how to organize and run a bureaucracy) and were made to understand that this lifestyle was due entirely to the generosity of the emperor. After this education, these individuals were sent all across the empire and granted prominent positions ruling over regions and serving as the emperor's hand across the empire. There is no better way to ensure capable servants and politicians loyal to the death than this.

Also from the Ottoman empire, when annexing lands, Christianity and Judaism were not only tolerated but encouraged. By not being forced to change too much, and with the added benefit of Ottoman legions for protection, these lands were surprisingly content under occupation and any rebellions or uprisings had little to no support.

One of two things are the best way to achieve a national identity and unify a people. Religion and Nationalism. Nationalism works much the same as religion, but doesn't bring you into as much conflict as say, a conflict of faiths. To this end, all people must understand what it meant to be part of the empire and why they are superior. It worked for Hitler and, to a much greater degree, Napoleon, who managed to amass armies far larger and far more motivated than simple conscription would have ever allowed for. A daily pledge of allegiance or public broadcasting (through the town crier) message of the armies most recent victories and the success of the country is a great way to achieve this.

Laws should neither be too draconian nor too flexible. While the law applies in all cases at all times and may not be circumvented, with punishments too sever many judges would have a difficult time passing such a sentence. With that little flexibility in maybe pushing for a lighter sentence, the structure of your society is undermined. Perhaps use extra planar beings of law as a median, but ensure that the laws themselves are lawful in that they don't punish people for things they didn't do.

Peter the Great of Russia moved the administrative capital from Moscow to St. Petersburg for political reasons. Nobles who had a great deal of power and a large network of spies and forces in Moscow were forced to live in St. Petersburg in state owned homes, thus tearing them from their power base. With very real limitations to the plotting they could conduct, this helped to secure Peter and prevent betrayal by some of his most powerful contenders.

There's a few dozen more examples I could cite (Read the Art of War and look into the Mongol hordes for more references) but I hope this helps. I'm doing a similar thing with a society that slowly becomes lawful evil, due largely to the PC's actions (Even if they don't realize the effect they are having).

[Gamerlord]

Not kicking a puppy upon sight/ get kicked into volcano.

[bosssmiley]

and of course,paladins are STRICTLY outlawed

That right there is an x/0 situation for a Paladin. :smallamused:

[Riffington]

Remember that it's more important to make the population think you benefit them than actually to benefit them. Give a man a fish, and he needs to come back tomorrow for another. Teach a man to fish...

Thus: educational system would be very bureaucratic, and teach students how to fit into existing jobs without really encouraging entrepreneurship. You own the companies (or their heads), the people are trained primarily to work within those companies, they depend on you for a living.

Welfare can also be designed in a similar way if you want to have it: make sure people have to do very specific things to get their food assistance, and that it conflicts with their ability to revolt or to better themselves. The poor can be a very useful tool, just make sure they stay a tool.

Hide taxes whenever possible, but very publicly and obviously give people money/benefits. You sneakily take 5gp and obviously give back 3, and they're grateful - you bribed them with their own money.

[NeoVid]

That right there is an x/0 situation for a Paladin. :smallamused:

Actually, since it's a 4e game, paladins of evil gods could be heavy hitters in support of the regime.

I've got a few ideas for this, but no time for a long post right now. I'll just say you should definitely read the Evil Overlord List. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList)

[Thatguyoverther]

murder/public drawing and quartering
rape/public castration
theft/public branding

even Evil societies generally have laws against getting caught at these.

Make sure that it's not the crime that's illegal, but being caught that is.

[Johel]

death/compulsory reanimation

Not resurrection, reanimation.
That's right, you'll serve the State... one way or another.

[Shardan]

slowly replace the populace with mind-controlled/possessed/cloned versions.

Faux 'benevelont kingdom' worshipping a fake god and driving its populace into fanaitcal levels of belief. The end plan is to drive the populace to a suicide attack, the resulting deaths powers some 'demon gate' type spell. Players have to prove the god is a fake to a bunch of fanatics or fight the demon horde/major demon that gets summoned.

Some form of automoton is being produced through the kingdom, making the lives of the peasants easier. The automotons are either powered by enslaved humanoid souls or are being spread as plants to perform a mass uprising/take over of the kingdom.

[Kurald Galain]

Read up on Ultima V.

Ultima IV has a number of laws based on virtue. Ultima V twists those to evil.

[JonestheSpy]

Two big things that haven't been mentioned: lots and lots of laws, byzantine and complicated, ideally some of which outlaw fairly common recreational behaviour. That way, almost everyone is criminal in some way or another, constantly on edge, and willing to turn on others in order to protect themselves. Also good for always having an excuse for arresting somebody. And of course informers and secret police have to everywhere.

Also, following up on the Kender=death bit, lots of laws that stratify society on racial lines, to keep the population at odds with itself instead of finding common ground and unifying. And of course there should be official approved religions and an Inquisition ferreting out those secretly worshipping the wrong dieties.

Oh, and by the way, Danin really seems to be describing a neutral empire, not an evil one, and Radar and Riffington are really letting their real-world politics show...:smalltongue:

[NeoVid]

Evil laws that work well for a game should be seen by the people in power as

a)Efficient

b)Biased toward the people in power

c)Entertaining

Many things that fit that description have already been described: Slavery, public punishment, gladiators...

I want to recommend legal dueling. PCs who get high enough level will be tempted to abuse the hell out of dueling laws. "Hey... that governor who's been threatening to order me executed is 5 levels lower than I am..."

Also, if you want to keep the PCs working for the evil empire, you want them to be tempted into working for them, not coerced. Heroic, sure, paragon, it's possible, but no one wants epic adventurers looking for payback for the early days of their adventuring careers.

And yes, keeping the populace divided against itself while not minding you is a major way to keep them from causing trouble for a ruler. Just don't make the strife go too far, or you'll have bloody warfare in the streets, which should be kept to the district meant for that.

...I had a few more ideas in mind, but they escaped my brain the instant I had the chance to post. More later, then.

[Riffington]

, and Radar and Riffington are really letting their real-world politics show...:smalltongue:

If I were to describe the ways in which various real-world governments match/diverge from the LE ideas I described, *then* I'd be letting my real-world politics show. I think the same is true of Radar.
:mitd:

[Tyrmatt]

It depends how comedic vs dark you want to get with this empire. A cheerfully aware of his status as dictator overlord runs the risk of becoming Havelock Vetinari in the eyes of your probably Discworld educated players. But you absolutely should be just as cunning and tricky as Vetinari is.

For example, have a clearly defined set of punishments for the upper classes and lower classes. However, as tyrant emperor, it is your right to strip nobles and such of their titles, lands etc when you feel they have done something shameful towards the empire. An example would be to phrase the law on treason as to apply "to those not bearing a title or rank of the empire". This applies only to the poor, leaving the nobles free to plot their treason and assassinations. However, when they are discovered, you strip them of their lands and have them hung from the battlements in a cage til they starve. The peasants are kept in line by the fear of the law and the unruly nobles get caught out by your network of spies (who incidentally, should be trained as butlers as well. Just a thought). No one said the courts have to be fair.

Another idea might be to elevate a peasant to a lordly position, with the strict instructions that he is to use his (vastly above even his lordly station, provided by you) wealth to help the poor and to stand up for those who are imprisoned for minor infractions against the empire. Have a law allowing lords to be able to pay a fine and take the offender on as a serf in place of the peasant serving the time/punishment. The greedy nobles will never bail out the poor and the state funded lord will be able to determine through his contacts whether the man is worth saving and looking merciful. Plus the greedy nobles will never save one of their own competition and you can make your puppet lord give the thumbs down when one is tried for treason.

[Haven]

Not kicking a puppy upon sight/ get kicked into volcano.

Not eating a kitten/ fed to lions.

[Blackfang108]

"For truth is often strange. Stranger than fiction..." - S

While I mean in no way to imply that these are characteristic of nor references to real world Lawful Evil societies, these are a few highly successful ways of ruling an empire that evolved from history.

In the Ottoman empire, Emperor Saladin bought slaves at a young age, about 4 - 8, and raised them for 16 years. These children were given good lives, an extensive education in all things (including the arts, world religions, politics, leadership and how to organize and run a bureaucracy) and were made to understand that this lifestyle was due entirely to the generosity of the emperor. After this education, these individuals were sent all across the empire and granted prominent positions ruling over regions and serving as the emperor's hand across the empire. There is no better way to ensure capable servants and politicians loyal to the death than this.

Yeah. the Ottomans were GENIUSES. Not evil, but they WERE effective.

[Riffington]

In the Ottoman empire, Emperor Saladin

Was this a different Saladin? The famous one died 100 years before the Ottoman empire was founded.