ToB: Bo9S question

[Tahlathali]

Ok, I've had this book for about 4 years now, but never got around to making a character. I have skimmed through it a few times, but I have a question.
I have heard a lot about how TOB system is extremely powerful and I have to admit I do like some of the maneuvers. But is this system very difficult to implement into a currently running campaign? Does it make combat very complicated?

[kamikasei]

Nope.

From the point of view of mechanics/gameplay, it's like the martial initiator classes are very limited spellcasters, or closer to warlocks - not many tricks but usable all day. So long as the player keeps track of the maneuvers available to him, deploying them in combat is generally less complicated than casting a spell. That said, you may find you need to keep closer track of positioning and initiative in order to get full benefit out of action-granting or AoO-using maneuvers or the like.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Ok, I've had this book for about 4 years now, but never got around to making a character. I have skimmed through it a few times, but I have a question.
I have heard a lot about how TOB system is extremely powerful and I have to admit I do like some of the maneuvers. But is this system very difficult to implement into a currently running campaign? Does it make combat very complicated?

About as complicated as adding a caster... as realy thats what they are equivelent to...

Good sugestion to players is to right down there manuvers on index cards.

[Boci]

Depends. At first the crusader's recovery mechanic and furious counter strike can be a bit much, but the warblade and swordsage are easy enough to handle. Just have a brief list of what each manouver does.

[Glimbur]

It's a little less complicated than full spellcasters, and harder to shoot yourself in the foot.

ToB classes and wizards both have a list of spells maneuvers known, and out of them they ready some of them. ToB is different in two major ways from wizards: you cannot ready the same maneuver more than once and your powers work on a per-encounter basis.

One common mistake you should avoid is that a 3rd level Crusader, for example, cannot take 3rd level maneuvers; only 2nd level maneuvers. They get access to new levels of maneuvers at the same rate wizards get access to new spell levels. If you want to fix this, go back in time with a thesaurus.

[Sir.Swindle]

You're a spell caster that uses his wepon to hit things.
Thats about how complex it is. OH and you have spell per encounter instead of per day.

As far as power goes you're stronger than regular melee classes but weaker than full casters, so about exactly where you want to be.

[Tahlathali]

awesome, sounds good. I might think about suggesting it to the guys then.

[Ernir]

I'm pretty sure the whole book was designed with late-campaign implementation in mind. For a book that supposedly obsoleted the PHB melee classes, it sure plays nice with them.

[Tahlathali]

ok, new question. regarding the swordsage and his sense magic ability. I understand what it is saying about setting the DC of the check, but not entirely clear on what modifies the roll. it says level check so is that just the character lvl or the IL? any other modifiers get added?

[Mongoose87]

Usually a level check is character or class level.

[Keld Denar]

It just says level check, so I'd assume its the sum of all your levels, not just Swordsage. Contrast to say...Assassin, who's Death Attack DC is determined by class level, rather than just level.

So, a Swordsage7 would have a +7 on his d20 roll, while a Swordsage7/Rogue3 would have a +10.

[Tahlathali]

ok, that's what I thought but I just wanted a second opinion. sometimes they can be a bit vague on ability usage

[gorfnab]

Why bother writing down the maneuvers when you can just print them out: Maneuver Cards (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a)