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View Full Version : Hexblade's Curse Needs Improvements [3.5]



Temotei
2009-12-19, 12:03 AM
What would you do to improve the hexblade's curse ability?

Ideas:

Usable at will, with lesser duration
Usable at will, with lesser effect
Better effect
No save
Leave it as is, because it's already good enough
Rather than improve it, weaken it, because it's too good (I seriously doubt anyone thinks this)


What do you think?

Boci
2009-12-19, 12:05 AM
Make it per encounter, but is only expended on a failed save.

Ryuuk
2009-12-19, 12:29 AM
There's a semi-official fix to the Hexblade, supposedly written by one of the guys who wrote the class. Gist of it is that it starts off usable 1 + (Cha mod) times per day, usable as a swift action, but it's not expended when they make the save. I always use it, the whole thing is in the spoiler:

The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life.
As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky
or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually
work in play.

Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed.

If you want to boost the hexblade, I'd try the following changes:

* Good Fortitude save
* Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day
* Curse ability usable as a swift action
* Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw
* Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler
* At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.

The key to the hexblade is his curse ability, but it's a little un-fun to have it so limited in use. The hexblade also has trouble casting spells and using his melee attacks, so shifting spells to swift actions fits in with the idea of an armored mage.

Temotei
2009-12-19, 12:41 AM
Hm. Interesting. Any other ideas are appreciated. It looks like the main thing is the amount of times you can use it in a day, which is what I thought. Thanks. :smallsmile:

Boci
2009-12-19, 01:49 AM
Hm. Interesting. Any other ideas are appreciated. It looks like the main thing is the amount of times you can use it in a day, which is what I thought. Thanks. :smallsmile:

There are some pretty good hexblade fixes already in exisatence. Google should be able to find them.

Keld Denar
2009-12-19, 03:11 AM
Lvl1Fighter made a pretty decent redux on Hexblade using more of an Invocation based system, kinda like Eldritch Essences or Blast Effects are for Warlocks.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121647

Temotei
2009-12-19, 05:14 AM
There are some pretty good hexblade fixes already in exisatence. Google should be able to find them.

Do you mind linking some, or at least one? The most I found was this thread twice, a WotC thread multiple times, and a few other random threads, all with the same fix that was shown in an above post (obviously the one linking to this thread had the fix, but yeah...:smallcool:).

Thanks to everyone for the input.

AslanCross
2009-12-19, 07:59 AM
Check CrystalKeep's feat index. It has some Dragon Magazine feats that give the Hexblade's Curse other uses.

deuxhero
2009-12-19, 09:14 AM
Didn't one of the creators suggest making it so that only effective (not saved against) curses count against the daily limit?

Ernir
2009-12-19, 09:19 AM
Didn't one of the creators suggest making it so that only effective (not saved against) curses count against the daily limit?

Yes, that suggestion is in the spoiler in Ryuuk's post.

Temotei
2009-12-19, 01:21 PM
Check CrystalKeep's feat index. It has some Dragon Magazine feats that give the Hexblade's Curse other uses.

Cool. I'm not sure they're all worth a feat...but still kind of cool.

Sinfire Titan
2009-12-19, 01:24 PM
I turned it into an Invocation and gave the Hexblade a psuedo-Warlock/Duskblade chassis.

Blas_de_Lezo
2009-12-19, 04:32 PM
I suppose you're talking about 3rd ed. Take the ability focus (hexblade curse) feat, and it'll give you an additional -2 o your opponent's saving throw.

However, the best way to improve you hexblade attacks is taking the Familiar Feat, the Improved Familiar feat, the shadow hound option, and the hound of doom (level 4) spell. Without wasting any of your actions, you will be controlling 3 dreadful beasts. I've played this and it's incredibly cool, and the only way to make a hexblade effective.

Temotei
2009-12-19, 04:37 PM
I suppose you're talking about 3rd ed. Take the ability focus (hexblade curse) feat, and it'll give you an additional -2 o your opponent's saving throw.

However, the best way to improve you hexblade attacks is taking the Familiar Feat, the Improved Familiar feat, the shadow hound option, and the hound of doom (level 4) spell. Without wasting any of your actions, you will be controlling 3 dreadful beasts. I've played this and it's incredibly cool, and the only way to make a hexblade effective.

The only way? :smallconfused:

Bonzai
2009-12-22, 02:39 PM
Frankly, I think Hexblades are nasty as is. The biggest problem is that the curse doesn't keep improving in the epic levels.

My Build would be
Human
1.Dreadfull Wrath, Bind Vestige.
3. Improved Bind Vestige
6.Power Attack
9. Brutal Strike
12. Netherese Battle Curse
15-18: Are open.

In combat, he always have Dark Companion and Focalor vestige up for a persistent -4 to saves, -2 to attack, -2 to AC, and -2 to skill checks to anyone adjacent to him and his companion, and will activate his Aura of Unluck. He will then pick the most dangerous opponent that he can find, charge them, and use his hexblade curse on his target (once he is close enough that his and his companion’s aura give his opponent a -4 penalty to saves). If they fail the save against the curse, they are further debuffed to having -10 to saves, -8 to attack, -8 to damage, -8 to skill checks, -6 to ability checks and -2 to AC. As he ends his charge, he will attack using his Netherese Battle Curse, Dreadful Wrath, power attack, and Brutal Strike abilities. If they succeed, the opponent is now debuffed to -16 to saves, -14 to attack, -12 to damage, -12 to skill checks, -12 to ability checks, and -2 to AC. If he wants to end the fight quick, he will activate his belt of battle and cast baleful polymorph or charm monster.

It gets even more ridiculous with the Dragon Magazine template (unseelie Fey?) with the ability to reduce saves for adjacent, non-fey creatures by your charisma modifier. In one of our campaigns, a dread necromancer has this template and routinely does -15 to saves. Add on the other to static auras, and a couple level dip into Black Guard, and you are at a static -21 to saves before your first curse. How much De-buff do you really need?