(3.5) Dear Gods Not Another Monk Thread

[Deth Muncher]

Yeah, it's that time of the month. The time where wizard v fighter threads emerge, what to do in a zombocalypse threads emerge, and this board's favorite, the monk threads emerge. I'd like to preface this with two things:

One: This thread is not what you might expect at first glance.

Two: Should you continue to be snarky about monks in here, I have red-hot cacti to shove in your nose. (Cookies for the reference, although given the users of this board, I'm betting we get a winner in three posts.)

So, what is this thread about? In my campaign, the players are currently in a place that's not quite Eberron, not quite Dragonmech, and not quite the Iron Kingdoms (despite Karchev being there). The town guards are all Warforged. What I want, because it's hilarious, is the guards to be Monks as well. I have several images in my mind about this, and wanted to see what you guys thought about it, and how you might help me add on abilities - if my previous posts in the forum haven't taught you yet, I've skimmed every book, and remembered no facts from any. D:

So, the low ranking WarMonks will be the basic bruisers, with nothing too fancy. I'm thinking Battlefists + Flurry for attacking? The PCs are level 5, level 6 in a session or three, so I figure these guards should be their level too. Furthermore, I bring up the BF + FoB because I don't know if it'll actually be good, or if they'll just miss.

The middle rank of WarMonks will be the Rockmen Division (or Megamen, to some). These WarMonks will have gotten both the PHB2 Monk Helper that lets them Hadoken, as well as having an Energy Crossbow a piece (I know that's not what it's called, but you should know what I mean). Question: Does Manyshot work effectively the same as Flurry, so it would make sense to drop their Flurry and replace it with Manyshot? Also, these guys are looking at being around level 9-10.

The elite WarMonks, the Terminator Division, I'm thinking will actually be Unarmed Swordsages as opposed to actual Monks. I feel this is slightly cheating, but on the other hand, they're supposed to be the more elite bodyguards. They'll be armed with Arm Blades. Thinking levels 11-12. I need help on the concept of the Unarmed Swordsage, but I'm betting that I can Google it (unless someone drops the link here).

So, thoughts on how to flesh these out a bit better? I know it's not going to make the town guard all that good, but that's kinda the point. This is a town that doesn't NEED to be super well guarded, because effking Karchev runs it.

[Duos Greanleef]

I don't know much about your setting.
I don't know much about monks.
I know a limited amount of information about Warforged.
But the idea of six and a half foot tall metal men flying through the air, kicking you in the FACE!
Now that is sheer awesome and you deserve a win for it.
Congratulations friend.

[SparkMandriller]

The middle rank of WarMonks will be the Rockmen Division (or Megamen, to some).

Isn't the plural of Rockman Rockman? I coulda sworn it was.

[Draz74]

Two: Should you continue to be snarky about monks in here, I have red-hot cacti to shove in your nose. (Cookies for the reference, although given the users of this board, I'm betting we get a winner in three posts.)

Weird Al Yankovic's finest, Since You've Been Gone.

[Keld Denar]

So, what you are saying is that you need help statting up some level 11-12 UA Swordsages? That would be pretty easy if you wanted to do. Slap together some Shadow Hand and Setting Sun maneuvers, take Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB), Snap Kick, and Improved Natural Attack, and go.

You can't really make mistakes there. You really can't.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Isn't the plural of Rockman Rockman? I coulda sworn it was.

The plural is Rockmans. Get it right.

[Deth Muncher]

In order:

-Right on cue, the third post gets the cookie.

-Duos, thank you, but please remember that not only do they kick on in the phace, they also shoot lazors (pewpew).

-Is the plural of Rock/Megaman Rock/Megaman? I assumed it would follow the natural progression of the English language when converting from singular to plural. Then again, Rock/Megaman is a Japanese character, so what do I know.

-Keld, thanks! That's awesome. *goes off to make notes*

-PF, I'm watching you.

EDIT: Are Sunder-Punches an option? As in, a WarMonk punches you in the sword? Can people DO that?

[Keld Denar]

Yea. There are a couple of Stone Dragon manevuers that bypass hardness and DR, and one (Stone Dragon's Fury) that attacks a weapon.

Since you can initiate a manevuer with any weapon, its assumed you can do it with your fist. So yea, you can break someone's sword with your bear hands.

[Serpentine]

As in, a WarMonk punches you in the sword? Can people DO that?It's possible, but frowned upon in pretty much all contact sports except possibly Greco-Roman wrestling.

[Deth Muncher]

Yea. There are a couple of Stone Dragon manevuers that bypass hardness and DR, and one (Stone Dragon's Fury) that attacks a weapon.

Since you can initiate a manevuer with any weapon, its assumed you can do it with your fist. So yea, you can break someone's sword with your bear hands.

Score. I think I'll have the party fight a WarMonk who Sunder's their shinies if they start getting too ruh-dickle-us (like the back of yo' head, gurl).
Note to Self: Do not do this if PCs have Staff of Power.

EDIT:


It's possible, but frowned upon in pretty much all contact sports except possibly Greco-Roman wrestling.

XD Nice. Good thing most of the players are female...

MEGA DOUBLE EDIT: How would Warforged Juggernaut fit into some Monkening?

[Keld Denar]

Note to Self: Do not do this if PCs have Staff of Power.


Why? Its a reflex save, and Swordsages get evasion at 9th! With the Diamond Mind manevuer that allows you to make a concentration check in place of a Ref save, there is almost no chance to fail, and thus take no damage. BOOM!!!!!!

EDIT:

It wouldn't be hard. Warforged Juggernaught as the following prereqs.
Adamantine Body
Power Attack
Imp Bull Rush
BAB +5

So, the Adamantine Body thing would cancel out your Wis bonus to AC, but the +8 is pretty impressive.

You'd need 6 levels of Swordsage to get the BAB prereqs, and to get all 3 feats without Flaws. This would also preclude you from taking Improved Natural Attack or Superior Unarmed Strike.

I'd actually probably forgo the Juggernaught. It doesn't really lend much, and PA + Imp Bull Rush don't really channel into a SS's style. I would pick up a Battlefist (ECS) for your 'forged monks though, as it increases your effective monk die and stacks with INA and SUAS. Indeed, a 12th level UASS with a Battlefist, SUAS, and INA would have 4d8 base damage attacks. If you could squeeze one more size increase in there, you'd have 6d8 fists, which would be pretty decent.

[Deth Muncher]

Why? Its a reflex save, and Swordsages get evasion at 9th! With the Diamond Mind manevuer that allows you to make a concentration check in place of a Ref save, there is almost no chance to fail, and thus take no damage. BOOM!!!!!!

Seems to me like that would be the equivalent of a Falcon Punch.

[Draz74]

Seems to me like that would be the equivalent of a Falcon Punch.

Falcon Punch doesn't cost 211,000 gp. :smallyuk:

[Deth Muncher]

Falcon Punch doesn't cost 211,000 gp. :smallyuk:

Point.

...

Now I need to figure out how to Falcon Punch using Monk. Isn't there a PrC which lets you add spells to your fists? Or elements?

[Keld Denar]

Monk/Warlock/HellfireWarlock with the hideously underwhelming Invocation Hideous Blow.

Eldritch Glaive blows this out of the water any day of the week...

[Draz74]

Now I need to figure out how to Falcon Punch using Monk. Isn't there a PrC which lets you add spells to your fists? Or elements?

Sounds like you're thinking of Kensai (CWar). It's ok.

There's the Fiery Fist feat in PHB2. It sucks. :smallfrown:

Monk 2/Warlock 18 with Hideous Blow? Nah, that sucks too. (Though, the "provoke an attack of opportunity" part is pretty accurate to the original ...)

Really, Tome of Battle is the best answer. Captain Falcon = Swordsage with a mix of Desert Wind, Setting Sun, and Stone Dragon. Falcon Punch? Searing Blade + Mountain Tombstone Strike.

[Deth Muncher]

I'd actually probably forgo the Juggernaught. It doesn't really lend much, and PA + Imp Bull Rush don't really channel into a SS's style. I would pick up a Battlefist (ECS) for your 'forged monks though, as it increases your effective monk die and stacks with INA and SUAS. Indeed, a 12th level UASS with a Battlefist, SUAS, and INA would have 4d8 base damage attacks. If you could squeeze one more size increase in there, you'd have 6d8 fists, which would be pretty decent.

Make it a Psiforged from Magic of Eberron. Get Expansion somehow. Done.

EDIT:

Sounds like you're thinking of Kensai (CWar). It's ok.


Ah, Kensai. The class that, when combined with Monk, gets you ROCKET FISTS (throwing & returning).

[SparkMandriller]

The plural is Rockmans. Get it right.

Actually I just checked in ZXA and they say Rockman so there actually.
Actually.

[Draz74]

Ah, Kensai. The class that, when combined with Monk, gets you ROCKET FISTS (throwing & returning).

The classic is actually to make your head Flaming, Throwing, & Returning. Go big or go home!

[Fishy]

Warforged Juggernaut doesn't do a lot for Monks because Adamantine Body makes you count as always wearing heavy armor. Normal composite plating doesn't count as armor for Monk purposes, but Mithral, Ironwood and Adamantine bodies do.

On the other hand, Stone Dragon and White Raven have a bunch of maneuvers based around charging, and Warblades love to take two level dips to delay their maneuvers-known progression, and the minor form of Dungeoncrasher is at Fighter 2. So there's that.

Also, I need to give a shout out to the Stone Power/Shocking Fist combo. It's made of love. Love and lightning.

[Deth Muncher]

The classic is actually to make your head Flaming, Throwing, & Returning. Go big or go home!

This sounds like something out of One Piece or something.

ANYWAY.

So, the way I have it in my head is as such (and let's just make this all sorts of Megaman hilarity):

The Gutsman League:
Armed with Battlefists, primarily focus on punching, sundering with their massive FISTS OF FURY. Level 5 Monks.

The Rockman League:
The rangers, as well as mid-ranking guards. They use a combination of PHB2 Ki-Blast (read: Hadoken), as well as Manyshot + Armbow. Minimum level of 8.

The Zeros:
Elite guards of the city, they're armed with Arm Blades, and are also the only non-Monks, as they're really Swordsages. Probably level 12.

I'll throw up proposed builds in a few.

[Milskidasith]

Don't forget the high commander of all of them, Bass. I really have no clue how to stat him out, because in gameplay, IIRC, he used a bunch of stuff. He's probably epic, though.

[Belobog]

Don't forget the high commander of all of them, Bass. I really have no clue how to stat him out, because in gameplay, IIRC, he used a bunch of stuff. He's probably epic, though.

Bass doesn't deserve to be epic. Besides, we need an epic caster to explain where all these warforged are coming from.

Enter Wily.

[sonofzeal]

Note that Warrior, as an NPC class, is always considered non-associated. You may want to compare Monk 5 to Monk 1 / Warrior 8 (or Monk 2 / Warrior 6) to see which floats your boat better. The Warrior loses out on class features but does get more feats from his levels, and will have a significantly superior attack bonus and hp. His saves are likely to also be consistently better than a Monk's, strangely enough (2 * 1/3 > 1/2).


Warrior guards are probably less likely to actually kill your players, but are durable and consistent, and almost guaranteed to score some solid hits.

[Deth Muncher]

Hah, no. No Wily. Although, were I doing straight Eberron, Merrix d'Cannith strikes me as Wiley-esque.

Nono, currently, I don't NEED to explain why the Warforged exist. I mean, the whole city is running on what is, basically, magic and steam all at once. If the PCs get curious, I'll tell them that Warforged originated in Xen'drik, as per Eberron says, and if they ask about steam, I'll tell 'em that they discovered it when they were trying to build on what could be done with Warforged. Karchev, the ruler of the city, is in steam-powered mech armor, for example.

[Leon]

EDIT: Are Sunder-Punches an option? As in, a WarMonk punches you in the sword? Can people DO that?

Yep, there is a feat in Comp Warrior called Eagles Claw centered around this

Adds your Wisdom Bonus to damage when you attack an Object

[Deth Muncher]

Yep, there is a feat in Comp Warrior called Eagles Claw centered around this

Adds your Wisdom Bonus to damage when you attack an Object

That...actually makes a lot of sense for this build. Wis to AC, Wis to smash objects... suddenly, I feel as though Person Man should be waltzing up with a link to his X Stat to Y Bonus thread.

[Dr Bwaa]

Falcon Punch. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Falcon_Punch_(DnD_Feat)) Though personally I think there was another version around someplace that I liked better (basically the only difference was that the damage was 2d6 force + 2d6 fire, with the fire being applied to any enemies adjacent to your target, and you had to be power attacking for at least -5).

[Deth Muncher]

Falcon Punch. (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Falcon_Punch_(DnD_Feat)) Though personally I think there was another version around someplace that I liked better (basically the only difference was that the damage was 2d6 force + 2d6 fire, with the fire being applied to any enemies adjacent to your target, and you had to be power attacking for at least -5).

BAH! Homebrew. Real men do it by how it's written. (Show me ya' rules!)
The above statement is not meant to detract from the awesome that is Homebrew. I'd just prefer to find a Falcon Punch doable via existing rules. :P

ANYWAY. I'm gonna post up these statblocks. But before I do, I need one question answered: What can't I put up? The explanations of the special abilities? Just wanna be sure I don't infringe any copyrights.

[Zaq]

The Zeros:
Elite guards of the city, they're armed with Arm Blades, and are also the only non-Monks, as they're really Swordsages. Probably level 12.


Make sure they die in every game encounter.

Optional: Have them get better with no explanation.

[Deth Muncher]

Make sure they die in every game encounter.

Optional: Have them get better with no explanation.

Well, that would be the point, wouldn't it? They ARE mooks.

And yeah, I see what you did there.

Hm...could have a Rockman pick up the Armblade, giving them Hadoken, Sword and Shooting.

[Deth Muncher]

Apologies for the doublepost, but there's an important NPC Ethics Question (TM) to be asked here: Is it bad form to give NPC mooks arbitrarily large stats? I'm not talking about 30s in everything, or even just straight 18s. I'm thinking the Gutsman Squad should have high Wis/Str/Con, the Rockman Squad with high Wis/Dex/Con, and the Zero Squad with...well, whatever it is Swordsages do. I'm thinking GMs have 16s in relevant stats/14s in non, RMs with 18s in relevant stats/16s in non, and Zeros...well, I mean, they're already Swordsages, I don't need to boost them that much.

That would, of course, be post-racial bonuses.

[AslanCross]

I avoid doing that. I used to give NPC villains the Champion array---I believe it was 18 16 14 12 10 8. I don't do that anymore, though.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Some suggestions:

For your Megamans, make them Warlocks, which can freely SLA in Light Armor, so give them Mithral Armor. Also, give them Eldritch Glaive so they can Zero when necessary.

For the RockMans, I may suggest Warblade with Shards of Granite to bypass DR. maybe homebrew the Dwarven Stone Dragon PrC for use, so they can create stone pillars. However, any attempt to do so in conjunction with sparklies and blonde mustache will Armstrong'd into oblivion.

[Deth Muncher]

Questions:
-Do I really care about giving these guys skills? Or is it something I really should care about because the players will use it to exploit later?
-Would it be reasonable to let the Rockman Squad "Flurry" with their bows? Instead of going the whole Manyshot route, since you get some nasty penalties.

EDIT: Or they could just full attack to get more shots...I dunno.

[lord_khaine]

Just give them rapid shot and call it a day?

[Deth Muncher]

Just give them rapid shot and call it a day?

Yeah, there's that...but Megaman could have THREE bullets at once, darnit!

Anyway, builds are nigh finished completely finished (other than skills), see below. Currently, they're all monks, because I realized: These aren't bosses, they're mooks. No need to whip out the ToB just yet. And if something looks funky, don't worry, I'll explain it.


Please note that these are not supposed to be accurate depictions of the characters that are attributed to each build - I'm using MONKS, for the gods sakes.

Gutsman
5d8 + 10 HP
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 12, Wis 17, Int 10, Cha 8
BAB +3, Flurry +2/+2
Fort: +6, Ref: +5, Will: +7 (+2 vs Enchantment)
AC: 18 - 10 + 2 (Warforged Armor) + 2 (Dex) + 3 (Wis), +1(Monk Levels)
Attacks: Sunder as Large creatures (+4 vs Medium), +1 Battlefist (+8, 2d8+4, BP, 20/x2), Stunning Fist 5x/day (Fort DC 15)
Speed: 40ft, Init +2
Special: Ki-Strike Magic, Slow Fall 20ft, Evasion, Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Improved Sunder, Superior Unarmed Strike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rockman
8d8 + 16 HP
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 18, Wis 18, Int 12, Cha 8
BAB +6/+1, Flurry +5/+5/+0
Fort: +8, Ref: +10, Will: +10 (+2 vs Enchantment)
AC 21 - 10 + 2 (Warforged Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 4 (Wis), +1 (Monk Levels)
Attacks: +2 Repeating Light Xbow, “Armbow “(+12, d8+3, P, 19-20/x2), Stunning Fist 9x/day (Fort DC 18), Unarmed Strike (+6, d10 20/x2)
Full Attacks: Hadoken (Ranged Touch, +10, 3d6+4 20/x2), Flurry of Shots (+12/+12/+5, d8+5, P, 19-20/x2)
Speed: 60ft, Init +4
Special: Ki-Strike Magic, Slow Fall 40ft, Evasion, Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Wholeness of Body (16HP), Crossbow Sniper, Ki-Blast (Burns SF attempts, grants +1), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Megabuster Power Source (ignore HP damage for over 20 shots on Armbow)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zero
12d8 + 12HP
Str 14, Con 12, Dex 18, Wis 20, Int 10, Cha 8
BAB +9/+4, Flurry +9/+9/+9/+4
Fort: +9, Ref: +12, Will: +13 (+2 vs Enchantment)
AC 23 - 10 + 2 (Warforged Armor) + 4 (Dex) + 5 (Wis), +2 (Monk Levels)
Attacks: +2 Repeating Light Xbow, “Armbow “(+12, d8+3, P, 19-20/x2), Stunning Fist 13x/day (Fort DC 21), Unarmed Strike (+11, 2d6+2 20/x2), Brilliant Energy +1 Armblade (+12, d10+2, 19-20/x2)
Full Attacks: Hadoken (Ranged Touch, +10, 3d6+4 20/x2), Flurry of Shots (+16/+16/+16/+9, d8+5, P, 19-20/x2), Brilliant Energy +1 Armblade (+12/+7, d10+2, 19-20/x2)
Speed: 70ft, Init +4
Special: Z-Buster Power Source (ignore HP damage for over 20 shots on Armbow), Ki-Strike Magic/Lawful, Slow Fall 50ft, Improved Evasion, Stunning Fist, Deflect Arrows, Wholeness of Body (24HP), Crossbow Sniper, Ki-Blast (Burns SF attempts, grants +1), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, EWP: Bastard Sword, Improved Fortification
Other Loot – Lesser Periapt of Wisdom (+1 bonus, 1000GP)
Explanations:
-Yes, I ignored a few Pre-Requisites. I'm just using liberal amounts of Handwavium (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HandWave). Plus, y'know, all of this falls under the Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool).
-Flurry of Shots is just like Flurry of Blows, but at range with the Mega/Z Buster. There's a +1 in there from being within 30ft. The Hadokens get a +1 from Point Blank as well.
-The Power Source specials are to get around that pesky damage from using more than 20 shots per Armbow per day.

Please feel free to nitpick if I've applied a bonus erroneously, or something just looks plain funky. These were put together on minimal sleep and maximal energy drinks, so something might be amiss.

[Deth Muncher]

>_>

<_<

Anyone?

Does Flurry of Shots unbalance them? I mean, they're mooks. They're also Monks. Mook Monks.

[AtopTheMountain]

{Scrubbed}

[Deth Muncher]

Great, the one response gets scrubbed. Super. :P

[Inhuman Bot]

So uh.. If this is Eberron-ish, why all the Megaman stuff?

[Deth Muncher]

So uh.. If this is Eberron-ish, why all the Megaman stuff?

It wasn't originally meant to be Megaman stuff, but rather squads of Warforged Monks. I realized after I started thinking about what I wanted "Oh, great. These are kinda like Megaman characters. Guess I'll just tweak them a bit..."

In reality though, it's not ENTIRELY like Eberron. Kinda just...borrows the magitechnology level, and the names for places. For example, the PCs are going to Xen'drik in the near future.