Regarding the 12 gods of the south

[Cizak]

1. Has Rich come up with these gods himself or did they exist somewhere else before oots?

2. Minor SoD Spoiler.
It looks like you worship all the gods at the same time (not like the northen gods, like Thor or Loki). But, how does that work? SoD seems to say that Rat is Evil... so how can paladins be kneeling down to this god?

[Somewhere]

Chinese Zodiac

[John Cribati]

Chinese Zodiac.
EDIT: Ninja'd

[Turkish Delight]

Needless to say, the notion of worshiping the Zodiac is unique to OotS. Poor Azurites don't even get proper Chinese Gods. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_folk_religion#Gods_and_goddesses)

[Aldrakan]

To be fair they worship gods who happen to correspond to the zodiac. I don't know there's been any indication that they act as a zodiac for the Azurites.

[FujinAkari]

Because Azure City is based on Oriental cultures, it naturally follows that the Azurites believe in duality (Yin and Yang) so that they accept that aspects of the Gods must represent evil.

Now, in practice, they of course reject evil in all its forms, but they (even Miko!) do not seem to be trying to exterminate evil in all its forms.

[Dixieboy]

Now, in practice, they of course reject evil in all its forms, but they (even Miko!) do not seem to be trying to exterminate evil in all its forms.

... wut? :smallconfused:

[FujinAkari]

... wut? :smallconfused:

What do you mean, what? Exactly what I said - Paladins are not trying to clense the world of evil, they are simply interested in exterminating it where it is encountered, they don't go looking for it.

((With the obvious exception of threats to the universe - i.e. The Crimson Mantle))

[Shale]

To be fair they worship gods who happen to correspond to the zodiac. I don't know there's been any indication that they act as a zodiac for the Azurites.

They do, actually; when Roy's climbing the mountain of enlightenment, we see an Azurite talking about being born under the sign of the pig.

[Renrik]

Except, you know, they do go looking for it.

[FujinAkari]

Except, you know, they do go looking for it.

No they don't. Name one example*. Kubota was very obviously evil and never got Detect Eviled. The Lawyer that Belkar gets tells Miko "An alarmingly high percentage of people you used Detect Evil on subsequently died." which, unless you want to argue that an alarmingly high percentage of people ARE evil, means Miko isn't running around using it willy-nilly, but only in cases where she actively suspects someone of being evil.

If you are going to argue with someone, it helps to ground your argument with examples :P

* - Other than the exception I already noted: Threats to the Universe

[Malek2991]

No they don't. Name one example*. Kubota was very obviously evil and never got Detect Eviled. The Lawyer that Belkar gets tells Miko "An alarmingly high percentage of people you used Detect Evil on subsequently died." which, unless you want to argue that an alarmingly high percentage of people ARE evil, means Miko isn't running around using it willy-nilly, but only in cases where she actively suspects someone of being evil.

If you are going to argue with someone, it helps to ground your argument with examples :P

* - Other than the exception I already noted: Threats to the Universe

Nondetection would block Detect Evil, there's a ring that grants that effect when worn. Anyone rich and attempting to usurp control of a city protected by a group of Paladins would buy one as they're pretty cheap (assuming he didn't just carry a thin sheet of lead like a certain halfling, that'd be even cheaper). Also they wouldn't have the evidence to get the magistrates to try him... Also the small army of ninjas loyal to him... Kubota really doesn't count.

[Shale]

Yeah, pretty much. Kubota said himself that he'd had to fool magical lie detection before; if anything got to that point he'd probably also been Detect Evil'd.

[FujinAkari]

Yeah, pretty much. Kubota said himself that he'd had to fool magical lie detection before; if anything got to that point he'd probably also been Detect Evil'd.

That referred specifically to trials. Detect Truth in a trial is a far shot from paladins sweeping the streets detecting evil at random and arresting/executing those discovered.

The point is that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Paladins are running around searching for evildoers, but instead seem to be acting as a police-force, reacting to those evils who show themselves.

Thus, getting back to the original point, the Azurites seem to respect duality, they are not out to exterminate evil, but merely prevent it from harming the good.

[Dixieboy]

That's not duality, that's just a non-insane method of doing good.

[FujinAkari]

That's not duality, that's just a non-insane method of doing good.

Eh... I dunno about that.

Paladins CAN Detect Evil 24-hours a day. The fact that they choose not to says something :P

[Dixieboy]

... not really?

[Mooglefrooglian]

The fact that they choose not to says something :P

It says they have better things to do, like hunt down threats to the universe.

[derfenrirwolv]

In origin of PC's there was an adventuring paladin.

Since the game is based on D&D the default is that like D&D paladins OOtS paladins DO go out trying to find evil and smite it. Paladins are not a force for balance. They want evil dead, gone, and burried and will take a very proactive stance to crusade for its irradication.

[veti]

Paladins CAN Detect Evil 24-hours a day. The fact that they choose not to says something :P

In the same way as Belkar could sing showtunes 24 hours a day, but chooses not to? Maybe detecting evil takes some effort, maybe it gives you a headache if you do it too long, who knows?

As for Miko and her "alarmingly high percentage" - if she killed even one person in 20, that's a pretty alarmingly high percentage in my book...

Having said that: I agree with you. Miko and the other paladins routinely invoke the Twelve Gods as one, without singling out the 'good' ones from the 'evil', which I think implies that they accept evil as a necessary part of the universe. Hinjo's deal with the Azurite criminals, and Shojo's speech to Miko over Belkar, all go to show that under Azurite law people are punished for specific crimes, not just locked up willy-nilly on the basis of their alignment.

[Shale]

Actually, I'm kind of surprised Miko wouldn't want to have Detect Evil on 24 hours a day. If there was ever a person who'd prefer to see the world in black and white...

[Harr]

The point is that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Paladins are running around searching for evildoers, but instead seem to be acting as a police-force, reacting to those evils who show themselves.


Someone needs to read Start of Darkness....

[Bibliomancer]

Actually, I'm kind of surprised Miko wouldn't want to have Detect Evil on 24 hours a day. If there was ever a person who'd prefer to see the world in black and white...

And yet, we see her activate it at specific (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0202.html) announced (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0208.html) intervals. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0281.html)

[Gift Jeraff]

Someone needs to read Start of Darkness....
Someone needs to read FujinAkari's second and/or third posts....:smalltongue:

[Mando Knight]

Actually, I'm kind of surprised Miko wouldn't want to have Detect Evil on 24 hours a day. If there was ever a person who'd prefer to see the world in black and white...

She would have to keep concentrating on the spell. Kinda hard to slash at things when you're doing so.

[Fenlun]

It's all like Oblivion, and being born under signs gives you special powers =p