Food for thought and a plot hole

[Oooohaloophole]

Anyway this is my first thread so dont go crazy if I get anything wrong. First off I wanted to write something pleasent to think about. I noticed that most of the posts here where like "DUDE HE LIKE TOTALY EVIL!":smallfurious: "Nuh uhhh":smallmad:. So I decided to write something not plot critical but fun anyway. What do you think V thinks about the fact that he is most likely outlive all of his friends in the order? I just imagin a scene where barly changed archmage vavarius (Sorry I call him that) stands next to a grave dipicting order of the stiick in a climactic battle agianst Xykon? What about thier ancestors?

Anyway If you look back into the archive remember the comic where they eavsdrop on Haley talking about the orbs her mother gave her when she was 12? Well if you look at a more recent comic where about 6year old haley tells her mother died last year. Maybe I dont get something but I hope im wrong.

[Turkish Delight]

Well if you look at a more recent comic where about 6year old haley tells her mother died last year.

She said her mother went to heaven. She never said she died, technically.

[FujinAkari]

Anyway If you look back into the archive remember the comic where they eavsdrop on Haley talking about the orbs her mother gave her when she was 12? Well if you look at a more recent comic where about 6year old haley tells her mother died last year. Maybe I dont get something but I hope im wrong.

I think this is a comic where death isn't necessarily permanent :)

[NerfTW]

Not so much a plot hole as another clue that something is up with Haley's mother. As noted, she said "went to heaven", not "died".


Also, on a less plot twisty route, Eugene died and came back multiple times, until he finally passed away of old age. It's not unreasonable to think that Haley's father could also drum up the money for a resurrection eventually. That's been brought up in the strip that dying is more of a momentary setback than a permenant state. Eugene, Shojo, Roy, the discussion of what to do with the Linear Guild, the Oracle. All times where death is just a temporary situation that needs to be remedied.

[HandofShadows]

I think this is a comic where death isn't necessarily permanent :)

That's working on the assumtion that death was involved in the first place. :smallwink:

[Zanaril]

Anyway If you look back into the archive remember the comic where they eavsdrop on Haley talking about the orbs her mother gave her when she was 12? Well if you look at a more recent comic where about 6year old haley tells her mother died last year. Maybe I dont get something but I hope im wrong.

...Woah, nice catch.

Can we take this as proof that something fishy is going on regarding Haley's Mum and her maybe/maybe not death?

[MReav]

Maybe she had a step-mom.

[Asta Kask]

If the step-mom was short, would she have been a 5-foot step mom?

[MReav]

If the step-mom was short, would she have been a 5-foot step mom?

Naw, she'd be more a shifty mom.

[OmegaDonut]

She said they came "from her mother's side", not that her mother gave them to her directly.

Maybe they could have been sitting in the attic for 6 years. For all we know, her father gave them to her for her birthday because he couldn't think of anything better to get her.

Nice catch, though.

[Shadowbane]

Which comic would this have been? May I have a link?

[Dark Faun]

Double Your Entendre, Double Your Fun! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html)

[Bibliomancer]

Assuming V survives the comic (the odds seem to be running 50-50 right now, because we know there's a happy ending for Elan, implying that Haley and Roy survive [Haley for obvious reasons, Roy because he's the big brother and his survival is probably linked to the success of the Order] while Durkon and Belkar both die [see other Oracle prophecies], leaving V in the undecided category) it would be interesting to see V in a hundred years or so after all three humans die of old age. Perhaps V will get stuck with the job of guarding all five gates.

[Oooohaloophole]

WOw. You guys answer fast.... But what about V?
I always thought that Elans family was cursed with lineage of evil/good twins? Wouldnt that be cool? Like V having to clean that up each time? or roy teaching his kids about not acting like jerks to whatever thier children chose as classes? Like a Wizard/Fighter sword prestiege class combo. Anyway I just wanted to say: V is my favourite character and I think hes a he. Just like his personality.:smallsmile:

[DwarvenExodus]

She said they came "from her mother's side", not that her mother gave them to her directly.

Maybe they could have been sitting in the attic for 6 years. For all we know, her father gave them to her for her birthday because he couldn't think of anything better to get her.

Nice catch, though.

*CoughLastPanelCough*

[NerfTW]

Durkon doesn't have to stay dead. He only has to finally return home dead. He can be raised and stay in the Dwarven city for the remainder of his life. Given that he has to die BEFORE the final battle (or else the destruction prophecy would just be hanging there), there's a good chance he gets raised and opts to stay in the city like he wanted.


Or, it can be so totally destroyed that he has to lead them to make a new home, also allowing both prophecies to come true. And since that wouldn't be a happy ending for Durkon, it allows for Elan's prophecy to come true as well.

As for Belkar, the wording of the freebie prophecies seem to indicate something other than normal death for him. Like becoming the Avatar of WAR. :smalltongue:

[Roderick_BR]

Anyway this is my first thread so dont go crazy if I get anything wrong. First off I wanted to write something pleasent to think about. I noticed that most of the posts here where like "DUDE HE LIKE TOTALY EVIL!":smallfurious: "Nuh uhhh":smallmad:. So I decided to write something not plot critical but fun anyway. What do you think V thinks about the fact that he is most likely outlive all of his friends in the order? I just imagin a scene where barly changed archmage vavarius (Sorry I call him that) stands next to a grave dipicting order of the stiick in a climactic battle agianst Xykon? What about thier ancestors?

Anyway If you look back into the archive remember the comic where they eavsdrop on Haley talking about the orbs her mother gave her when she was 12? Well if you look at a more recent comic where about 6year old haley tells her mother died last year. Maybe I dont get something but I hope im wrong.
Being an elf, it's rather normal to outlive his human, halflings, and gnome friends. Only dwarves could live long enough for a life-long friendship, but even then dwarves live less than elves.

About the orbs... I don't know.

[RebelRogue]

What do you think V thinks about the fact that he is most likely outlive all of his friends in the order? I just imagin a scene where barly changed archmage vavarius (Sorry I call him that) stands next to a grave dipicting order of the stiick in a climactic battle agianst Xykon? What about thier ancestors?
Not really what happens here, but I was reminded of it, none-the-less: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2srKV5WTRk

[Dixieboy]

Naw, she'd be more a shifty mom.

That makes her sound like a bit of a square to me.
I suck at this.

[Sewblon]

She could always have plane-shifted to heaven then came back, or died and gotten resurrected. I don't know much about D&D afterlives, but does D&D actually have a plane called Heaven? Since the Lawful Good people go to Celestia.

[Daefos]

She could always have plane-shifted to heaven then came back, or died and gotten resurrected. I don't know much about D&D afterlives, but does D&D actually have a plane called Heaven? Since the Lawful Good people go to Celestia.

Well, it is technically named the "Seven Heavens of Celestia". So, yeah.

[Bibliomancer]

Durkon doesn't have to stay dead. He only has to finally return home dead. He can be raised and stay in the Dwarven city for the remainder of his life. Given that he has to die BEFORE the final battle (or else the destruction prophecy would just be hanging there), there's a good chance he gets raised and opts to stay in the city like he wanted.


Or, it can be so totally destroyed that he has to lead them to make a new home, also allowing both prophecies to come true. And since that wouldn't be a happy ending for Durkon, it allows for Elan's prophecy to come true as well.

As for Belkar, the wording of the freebie prophecies seem to indicate something other than normal death for him. Like becoming the Avatar of WAR. :smalltongue:

Or they could both just die. Stranger things have happened.

[Sewblon]

Well, it is technically named the "Seven Heavens of Celestia". So, yeah. So they are the same place. Thanks for clearing that up. I really should buy the Manuel of The Planes.
Durkon doesn't have to stay dead. He only has to finally return home dead. He can be raised and stay in the Dwarven city for the remainder of his life. Given that he has to die BEFORE the final battle (or else the destruction prophecy would just be hanging there), there's a good chance he gets raised and opts to stay in the city like he wanted.


Or, it can be so totally destroyed that he has to lead them to make a new home, also allowing both prophecies to come true. And since that wouldn't be a happy ending for Durkon, it allows for Elan's prophecy to come true as well.

As for Belkar, the wording of the freebie prophecies seem to indicate something other than normal death for him. Like becoming the Avatar of WAR. :smalltongue:

Durkon was happy to be buried with his ancestors. He won't necessarily want resurrection.

[Bibliomancer]

So they are the same place. Thanks for clearing that up. I really should buy the Manuel of The Planes.

It's actually mentioned in the DMG*. All the planes have longer names. For example, the Abyss is actually the Infinite Layers of the Abyss, Baator is the Nine Hells of Baator, Hades is the Grey Waste of Hades, and so on.

*Although the Outer Planes are left out of the SRD, for some reason.

[Xapi]

Remember the rule of funny.

It wouldn't lend itself to double entendre if she had gotten them at age 6.

Although, if Rich would have been more careful, he wouldn't have explicitly written "That my mother gave me" but "that used to belong to my mother".

The Giant is still a human being, he can make mistakes... or he can have something up his sleeve.

[bluewind95]

Remember the rule of funny.

It wouldn't lend itself to double entendre if she had gotten them at age 6.

Although, if Rich would have been more careful, he wouldn't have explicitly written "That my mother gave me" but "that used to belong to my mother".

The Giant is still a human being, he can make mistakes... or he can have something up his sleeve.

Sometimes, gifts are obtained(by the one who intends to give them) long before they're actually given. I had an aunt that wanted to give me something for my 15th birthday. She died before that time came, and she got that gift before that. I still got it, and I still say she gave it to me, even though she wasn't physically present to give it to me. Perhaps it was something like that for Haley.

[Dr.Gunsforhands]

Interesting, all of this ado about an old pun. Only in the forums, ha ha!

All of these explanations are plausible, I guess, especially given that the joke was likely written before Rich had everyone's back story completely worked out... but I think that the simplest explanation, and the one with the most synergy, is that she was simply lying to V. She took her father's advice to heart, and still can't help it sometimes. Besides, what was she supposed to do? Tell V that she stole them?

...er, that, or what with them being a family heirloom, they were in the house and she wasn't really trusted with taking care of them until she was around twelve-ish. Yeah, I like that one too.

It's nice that someone pointed this out - I know I'd never have noticed otherwise. Now I wonder whether Rich inserted this little inconsistency on purpose, just for that little bit of depth.

[SaintRidley]

Well, it is technically named the "Seven Heavens of Celestia". So, yeah.

Even more technically, it's the Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia.


They really went overboard on the plane naming.

[Holy_Knight]

...er, that, or what with them being a family heirloom, they were in the house and she wasn't really trusted with taking care of them until she was around twelve-ish. Yeah, I like that one too.
I think it's something like this. Maybe her mother had told her that they would belong to her "when she was old enough", and 12 was when her father remembered/decided that she should have them.

[Turkish Delight]

In all honesty, I'd say what happened was an evil Necromancer world conqueror raised her mom as a zombie and the rotting corpse of Mamma Haley, acting on some leftover impulse from her days amongst the living, paid a visit to her daughter just long enough to drop off the jewels before rejoining the Necromancer in his bid for world domination.

Much more realistic than most of the suggestions here, and I'm sure a custom campaign could have it's zombies work in such a fashion.

[Oooohaloophole]

:smallfurious:I didnt want to talk about the loophole!

[Fitzclowningham]

Maybe this could have something to do with the theories that Haley isn't 100% human. For example, if her mother was a celestial...

[Daefos]

:smallfurious:I didnt want to talk about the loophole!

Umm...


Anyway If you look back into the archive remember the comic where they eavsdrop on Haley talking about the orbs her mother gave her when she was 12? Well if you look at a more recent comic where about 6year old haley tells her mother died last year. Maybe I dont get something but I hope im wrong.

Yeah, you kinda did.

[Mastikator]

There could also be a non-crazy and non-silly explanation. Haley's mother died when Haley was 6. She somehow only got the gemstones when she was around 12. Maybe they were lost and found later? Or something.

But considering that fans have to put in an arbitrary explanation then yes, it is a plothole.

[Oooohaloophole]

There could also be a non-crazy and non-silly explanation. Haley's mother died when Haley was 6. She somehow only got the gemstones when she was around 12. Maybe they were lost and found later? Or something.

But considering that fans have to put in an arbitrary explanation then yes, it is a plothole.

Thats All I wanted to hear, now can we move onto V and stuff

[Hyoumu Yau]

Can people in Oots actually be resurrected after they die from old age?
:smallconfused:

[Xzeno]

Can people in Oots actually be resurrected after they die from old age?
:smallconfused:

No. On Origin of PCs confirms this.

[Wymmerdann]

I haven't read Origins of PC's so this could have been explained, but that makes absolutely no sense to me.

People don't die of old age, they die of conditions that become more prevalent as they age. So a person that dies of "old age" is dying of something that could kill the relatively young as well, merely less frequently.

So if your heart fails when you're 30 in the Ootsverse, are you boned as dying of "old age"?

To summarise, huh?

[Herald Alberich]

Well, people do die of old age in OotS, and in D&D in general. It's mostly a way to prevent resurrection and healing magic from granting immortality. Each character has a set maximum lifespan, and the gods only let their divine magic restore you if you're killed before your time.

The lifespan is rolled up with the rest of the stats, in theory. In practice, it's probably only rolled when a single character is played long enough for it to become at all relevant.

Yes, the actual cause of death is probably more specific, but the metaphysical aspect raises it from "natural causes" to "old age".

There aren't many ways of extending the life you roll, and immortality is very hard to come by (much more so if you aren't evil or have some other problem with being undead). And doing that has a chance of attracting the attention of a certain class of Lawful outsiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#marut) who get snippy about that sort of thing.

[Lord of Syntax]

Interesting, all of this ado about an old pun. Only in the forums, ha ha!

All of these explanations are plausible, I guess, especially given that the joke was likely written before Rich had everyone's back story completely worked out... but I think that the simplest explanation, and the one with the most synergy, is that she was simply lying to V. She took her father's advice to heart, and still can't help it sometimes. Besides, what was she supposed to do? Tell V that she stole them?

...er, that, or what with them being a family heirloom, they were in the house and she wasn't really trusted with taking care of them until she was around twelve-ish. Yeah, I like that one too.

It's nice that someone pointed this out - I know I'd never have noticed otherwise. Now I wonder whether Rich inserted this little inconsistency on purpose, just for that little bit of depth.

This. Is. Truth. :smalltongue: