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Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-20, 08:47 PM
Today I finally acepted an invitation to a 4e game ( my previous experiences were kinda bad) and I rolled up a Shadar Kai avenger who wields a fullblade.

During the course of the adventure my party and I killed a giant beetle and we harvested some body parts, I got one of the pincers and due my hunter's background my DM deciced that I could make a weapon out of the pincer. originally I thought of doing a falchion or a scimitar to sell it, but then I thought
"Why don't I use the pincer to improve my fulblade?"
At first I thought of making it a brutal weapon (that's the one that lets you re-roll any damage below a certain number right?) but then I thought I could maybe increase the critical threat range ( not sure if this exists in 4e)

So what are the playground comments on my idea of improving my full blade?

Break
2009-12-20, 08:53 PM
Assuming it's allowed, you want the expanded crit range, as such things do exist in 4E - through Keen Eagle, Daggermaster, Jagged weapons, and so on. Due to doubling up on attack rolls for Oath, criticals happen pretty damn often for avengers, and would serve you better than brutal on a high damage die weapon.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-20, 08:58 PM
:biggrin: Nice, now I just have to ask my DM if I can get.
Thank you

tcrudisi
2009-12-20, 09:01 PM
Today I finally acepted an invitation to a 4e game ( my previous experiences were kinda bad) and I rolled up a Shadar Kai avenger who wields a fullblade.

During the course of the adventure my party and I killed a giant beetle and we harvested some body parts, I got one of the pincers and due my hunter's background my DM deciced that I could make a weapon out of the pincer. originally I thought of doing a falchion or a scimitar to sell it, but then I thought
"Why don't I use the pincer to improve my fulblade?"
At first I thought of making it a brutal weapon (that's the one that lets you re-roll any damage below a certain number right?) but then I thought I could maybe increase the critical threat range ( not sure if this exists in 4e)

So what are the playground comments on my idea of improving my full blade?

Well, by RAW it is not possible. However, since your DM is flexible, why not work with it? :smallbiggrin:

Break is correct -- strictly speaking, improving the crit range would be far more valuable to you. Why, it's so valuable that most people have to wait until level 21 to be able to pull it off. Giving a weapon the brutal property is much easier by comparison: you could pull it off by RAW by level 14 (with a level 18 magic item: Gauntlets of Destruction). Note: some characters can get an expanded crit range at level 11, but not many. Avengers, however, are one of the few. Most characters will be able to get the gauntlets much sooner than they can an expanded crit range.

What does all this mean? Well, if you are close to level 11 -- push for the brutal quality. You can take a feat at level 11 to get a 19-20 crit range anyway. If you are not close to level 11, well, the crit range is by far the best.

Good luck convincing your DM to let you use the pincers to improve your weapon.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-20, 09:15 PM
Is it really that hard to get a greater critical threat range? wow I really need to look again at the 4e books

And I find funny that you are talking about levels 11 and up, since this character is lvl 1 :smallwink:

tcrudisi
2009-12-20, 10:05 PM
Oops -- I just realized I made an error in my above statement. The feat that I thought gave Avengers a crit range of 19-20 isn't available until level 21. Yikes. So if you can get the expanded crit range, that is far, far superior than Brutal.

Although there is something very satisfying about re-rolling 1's on a d12 and having them come up as a 12.

As a side note, if you are a D&D Insider, check out Dragon #382 for the Avenger Essentials article. There was some very nice stuff in there.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-20, 10:12 PM
Not an insider, as I said my first experiences with 4e were bad, and I just decided to give it a try again, But yes I am going to try to get the improved critical

Asbestos
2009-12-20, 10:20 PM
Good luck with that... as a DM I'd never allow my players to make a weapon ultra-awesome by sticking bits of heroic and non-magical critters to them.

I'd probably just say the mandible counts as a scimitar or something.

How are you even attaching it to the sword?

Though, given a sufficiently large mandible (it'd have to be if we're talking Fullblade, aka Cloud's sword) I might allow it to be hollowed out and used as a sheath (which exist in some AV I believe) that imparts some mostly mundane quality to the blade (say, poison damage) but I'd only allow it so many uses (aka, charges).

Gralamin
2009-12-20, 11:18 PM
Not an insider, as I said my first experiences with 4e were bad, and I just decided to give it a try again, But yes I am going to try to get the improved critical

Improved Critical is really highly valued in 4e, so don't get discouraged if you cannot get it. The trick, for this weapon is to get a quality you enjoy on it, and then have someone use the "Transfer enhancement" ritual from Adventurer's Vault whenever you pick up an upgrade. That way, you can keep your Improved Sword, and get the magic item quality.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-20, 11:31 PM
Improved Critical is really highly valued in 4e, so don't get discouraged if you cannot get it. The trick, for this weapon is to get a quality you enjoy on it, and then have someone use the "Transfer enhancement" ritual from Adventurer's Vault whenever you pick up an upgrade. That way, you can keep your Improved Sword, and get the magic item quality.

:confused: sorry I didn't understand what you said.

Gralamin
2009-12-20, 11:35 PM
:confused: sorry I didn't understand what you said.

Your DM may not let you get improved critical since it's equivalent to an epic feat. If you do, be happy. If you do not, just be aware its because it is so valuable.

In addition, when you get your extra ability, that will likely be part of the weapon - if you find another fullblade, say a +1 Flaming Fullblade, it would not have the ability from your pincer. So, what you could do, is use a ritual called "Transfer Enhancement" to move the +1 Flaming properties onto your old fullblade, allowing you to keep your extra ability. Transfer Enhancement is from Adventurer's Vault, and your ritual caster is likely to pick it up anyway.

Hashmir
2009-12-20, 11:41 PM
:confused: sorry I didn't understand what you said.

What Gralamin means is that there are basically two types of weapon properties. There are the basic properties (light, off-hand, defensive, brutal 1, +3 proficiency bonus, 1d6 piercing damage), and then there are magical enchantments ("+1 Jagged" [crit on 19-20, +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls]).

While the basic properties are fundamentally part of the specific weapon, the Transfer Enchantment ritual will let you take the magical enchantment from one weapon and put it on another (qualifying) weapon. So if you were to make your sword a fullblade with brutal 1, and you later found a sword with an enchantment you like, you would want to transfer the new enchantment to the old sword, rather than dropping the old sword. You would not be able to transfer the brutal 1 property to the new, magical sword.

Make sense?

EDIT: Ninja.

Dusk Eclipse
2009-12-21, 12:10 AM
Thank you very much.....though know I am feeling that asking for an improved crit weapon at level 1 is too cheesy

Asbestos
2009-12-21, 12:39 AM
Thank you very much.....though know I am feeling that asking for an improved crit weapon at level 1 is too cheesy

Level 1??? Good luck, friend.

Hashmir
2009-12-21, 12:40 AM
Thank you very much.....though know I am feeling that asking for an improved crit weapon at level 1 is too cheesy

In all honesty, that's because it is. As mentioned above, improved crit range is something you usually only see at epic tier (with feats requiring specific stats) or paragon tier (with magic items or dagger-exclusive rogues). This is because better crits are quite good -- also, incidentally, why many avengers multiclass rogue and take the Daggermaster paragon path (18-20 crit with daggers).

So yeah, given that you're obtaining this bonus from a mundane, common creature at level 1, improved crits might be a bit much. On the other hand, asking for brutal 1 shouldn't be too bad. It's effectively just adding .5 to your average per-hit damage, which is hardly game-breaking.