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View Full Version : {3.5e} I HATE MY DM sometimes!!!



AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-21, 12:48 AM
My DM is starting a new campaign @ Lv1. He also said no homebrew at all. So that means no amusing stuff...

He also said Base Races, @ 0LA, however, Kobold is "technically" a base race, considering its in MMI, so I now have a sickeningly twisted sense of revenge for the BS i've endured!!!


So here's some of my ideas, considering my goal @ lv. 20:

Race for All: Venerable Dragonwrought Earth/Desert Kobold (Considering I saw VERY little difference)

Build 1: Dragonfire Adept 10/Dragon Disciple 5/Dragonfire Adept 5

Based on breath weapon abuse. Probably the weakest of all of my ideas...

Build 2: (Note: Requires Red/Gold dragonwrought to be effective...)
Sorcerer 5/Elemental Savant 5/Frost Mage 10

Immune to both Fire and Cold? YES SIR!

Build 3: Bard 1/Sublime Chord 10/Seeker of The Song 5/Lyric Thaumaturge 4
Singing as a sonic weapon (Might swap out for Half-Drow Half-Elf and take Bladesinger instead)

Any other ideas. No Psionics, no Incarnum, no "Unstoppable game-breaking lv1", ect.

Milskidasith
2009-12-21, 12:51 AM
Trying to annoy your DM is destined to end in failure, and none of the templates or, in fact, races are legal (desert kobold isn't core, and neither are the kobold supplements).

So this is just a horrible idea.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-21, 12:52 AM
My DM is starting a new campaign @ Lv1. He also said no homebrew at all. So that means no amusing stuff...

That's really not ridiculous, yknow... Im all for vengeance when it's deserved(see previous posts today, regarding lighting DMs afire), but I think this might be premature.

I'm also willing to bet he means "base races" as those found in the phb. Core is what includes MM.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-21, 12:52 AM
My DM is starting a new campaign @ Lv1. He also said no homebrew at all. So that means no amusing stuff...

He also said Base Races, @ 0LA, however, Kobold is "technically" a base race, considering its in MMI, so I now have a sickeningly twisted sense of revenge for the BS i've endured!!!
Let's see how well this is going to work out.



Build 1: Dragonfire Adept 10/Dragon Disciple 5/Dragonfire Adept 5
Not only do you not qualify for Dragon Disciple, it weakens your character because it has zero synergy with Dragonfire Adept.


Build 2: (Note: Requires Red/Gold dragonwrought to be effective...)
Sorcerer 5/Elemental Savant 5/Frost Mage 10
Elemental Savant forces all your energy spells ever to be of one energy type.
This makes you cry when the enemy casts Protection from Energy, a third level spell.


Build 3: Bard 1/Sublime Chord 10/Seeker of The Song 5/Lyric Thaumaturge 4
This just doesn't work. At all. You should know why.

Asbestos
2009-12-21, 12:53 AM
Trying to annoy your DM is destined to end in failure, and none of the templates or, in fact, races are legal (desert kobold isn't core, and neither are the kobold supplements).

So this is just a horrible idea.

He never said core, just said no homebrew, no psionics, no incarnum (not sure why the latter two aren't allowed...)

Tyndmyr
2009-12-21, 12:56 AM
He never said core, just said no homebrew, no psionics, no incarnum (not sure why the latter two aren't allowed...)

Thats really not all that restrictive. Incarnum is commonly not used because it's not well understood. Psionics, either the same, or an impression that they're overpowered. They're really not, but you can make a wide varieties of reasonable characters in what's allowed there.

I think this isn't sufficient reason for hatred.

Grushvak
2009-12-21, 12:56 AM
I'm going to assume you have some other reason for wanting revenge on your DM, because banning homebrew and limiting the races that can be played is pretty standard stuff in my gaming circle.

Also, you can't beat the DM. Get this idea out of your head. You can't even beat the DM with Pun-Pun. The DM is always right.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-21, 12:57 AM
Yeah, banning homebrew is...pretty damn common. Seriously, nearly everyone does that, or at least restricts it to stuff they personally inspect, because of the sheer volume of badly balance homebrew out there.

I typically ban it all myself.

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-21, 12:57 AM
Trying to annoy your DM is destined to end in failure, and none of the templates or, in fact, races are legal (desert kobold isn't core, and neither are the kobold supplements).

So this is just a horrible idea.

So basically, whip a rock at my dm and say, "Sorry, can't join the game because you don't use what I like?"

and in essence, he said, "Core 3 and any suppliment books. Just only lv1 and 0la races."

DMfromTheAbyss
2009-12-21, 12:58 AM
Doesn't sound too bad. Just becouse you can't have homebrew weirdness doesn't mean you can't have fun. Instead of worrying about Prc abuse and level builds make a character concept that would be fun to play reguardless.

Have a character with some fun mannerisms, back story, a funny voice.... Something quirky about them, or play up something that amuses you.

You'll avoid antagonizing the DM, maybe have some fun and avoid the whole you vs the DM mechanic, which once started will never end well (for either DM or player).

Grushvak
2009-12-21, 12:58 AM
So basically, whip a rock at my dm and say, "Sorry, can't join the game because you don't use what I like?"

and in essence, he said, "Core 3 and any suppliment books. Just only lv1 and 0la races."

Yes. Do just that. From your attitude, I believe this is the most sensible move, and what will turn out to be the most beneficial for you, your DM and the rest of the group.

Except for the part where you whip a rock at him. What the hell dude?

Tyndmyr
2009-12-21, 01:01 AM
So basically, whip a rock at my dm and say, "Sorry, can't join the game because you don't use what I like?"

and in essence, he said, "Core 3 and any suppliment books. Just only lv1 and 0la races."

This has to be a troll. That is....completely not worthy of rock chucking.

Why is this such a big deal to you?

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-21, 01:02 AM
Yes. Do just that. From your attitude, I believe this is the most sensible move, and what will turn out to be the most beneficial for you, your DM and the rest of the group.

Except for the part where you whip a rock at him. What the hell dude?

I was being snide............


anywho, I need Ideas.........BAD

He allowed any variant races, and I need some Ideas for the following "concept"

Considering we have an Elf Paladin (gag) who's the most epic ball-washer in existance, I thought either a gruff pair of Dwarf Twins or an Unruly Orc would be excellent comic relief.

Kylarra
2009-12-21, 01:03 AM
Uh, okay? This is almost as amusing as your level 100 battle thread.


plz2b making clear what exactly is so outrageous about these particular restrictions and why you're blowing a fuse on them.

AirGuitarGod32
2009-12-21, 01:04 AM
Uh, okay? This is almost as amusing as your level 100 battle thread.


plz2b making clear what exactly is so outrageous about these particular restrictions and why you're blowing a fuse on them.

I just spoke with him, to clarify. I thought he took away all of my "play-toys" when he didn't. I overreacted and blew my top. Forgive me.

ex cathedra
2009-12-21, 01:21 AM
Uh, I don't see your problem. You can't play anything but base races? Boo-hoo, you can't play anything more powerful than a human? Luckily, there are only one or two races that are even as good as humans, much less better.

You have to start at level 1? Most games do. It is kind of the level at which the game begins, to be fair.

No LA? In the vast majority of cases, taking level adjustment actually weakens your character when compared to an equal amount of class levels and XP.

Also, if this guy is willing to DM for you, you should have some respect. Just saying.

Glyde
2009-12-21, 01:25 AM
How about you have fun instead of try to break your DM? Crack open Savage Species and play a Human satyr or something. Wait, hold on...

Draz74
2009-12-21, 01:27 AM
Also, if this guy is willing to DM for you, you should have some respect. Just saying.

QFT. This guy sounds like he hasn't yet had the experience of learning what a valuable thing a DM is.

The Glyphstone
2009-12-21, 01:28 AM
Have you read any/most of AG32's other threads? There's definitely some...interesting dynamics going on with this group. When arguements over who's the better player end in duels involving level 100 drow demiliches, you've gone somewhere that the term 'dysfunctional' decided to go cry in a corner because it's been rendered invalid. Minimal offense intended to the people in question, but I think respect is pretty much off the table for anyone.

That said...yeah, OP, you're overreacting again.

Coidzor
2009-12-21, 01:36 AM
He allowed any variant races, and I need some Ideas for the following "concept"

Considering we have an Elf Paladin (gag) who's the most epic ball-washer in existance, I thought either a gruff pair of Dwarf Twins or an Unruly Orc would be excellent comic relief.

Hmm... Grungy Wildshaping Ranger? Crunchy Druid who wants to go MOMF for whatever reason?

Swift Hunter type? Haberdash the Masked as some more of a trickster archetype? The Horizon Tripper as a hippy?

I'm kind of weirded out by the captialization of "Ideas" and the quotation marks around "'concept.'"

Vitruviansquid
2009-12-21, 01:39 AM
DnD is a cooperative game. The players and the DM should both be at the table with the objective of having fun and helping each other have fun.

If you come to a tabletop RPG with the express purpose of pissing someone off, maybe you should consider not coming to the table at all.

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-21, 02:18 AM
Elemental Savant forces all your energy spells ever to be of one energy type.
This makes you cry when the enemy casts Protection from Energy, a third level spell.

Frost Mage Protects from that, though natural immunities are still protection (such as from having cold subtype).

Searing Spell is the better choice.

The Demented One
2009-12-21, 02:23 AM
My DM is starting a new campaign @ Lv1. He also said no homebrew at all. So that means no amusing stuff...

Some games require homebrew to work properly. D&D is not one of them. Really, chill. Core rules never stopped anyone from making a fun character.

Narazil
2009-12-21, 03:44 AM
Man, seriously, I love your threads. I come here for over-the-top great humor, and it always delivers.

Myrmex
2009-12-21, 04:38 AM
Trying to annoy your DM is destined to end in failure, and none of the templates or, in fact, races are legal (desert kobold isn't core, and neither are the kobold supplements).

So this is just a horrible idea.

Agreed.

But I fully endorse him going ahead with it.

Hey, airguitar, you know warforged is a base race, and if you apply the incarnate construct to it, you get two free LA to work with? True story.

I recommend taking either 5 levels of wizard and exchanging its fifth level feat for the complete champion ACF that lets you spontaneously cast divination spells, or picking up uncanny forethought. In either case, you qualify for Ultimate Magus at level 5 which will advance your wizard casting 17/10. So at level 15 you'll be casting as a level 22 wizard.

AslanCross
2009-12-21, 04:46 AM
I ban homebrew myself due to bad experiences with balance. Some of it is really good, but it's easier to just carpet ban it instead of having to white list a few and have to put up with player whining that "You allowed X so you should allow Y too."

bosssmiley
2009-12-21, 05:53 AM
I now have a sickeningly twisted sense of revenge for the BS i've endured!!!

All I take away from this eating out of your own heart is that your DM is doing his job right. John Wick and James Wallis would probably approve. :smallamused:

Aquillion
2009-12-21, 06:12 AM
I thought either a gruff pair of Dwarf Twins or an Unruly Orc would be excellent comic relief.Man, they should totally make "pair of Dwarf Twins" into a race. No, it's not dwarf. It means that your character is a pair of dwarf twins, who must be adjacent to each other at all times (or even standing on each other's shoulders!) to use any of your abilities.

Best. Race. Ever.

Lioness
2009-12-21, 06:17 AM
I'm about to start DMing a game. I'm saying to my players that I'd prefer they stick to core or approved homebrew (mostly stuff from the Dragon magazines...). Not because I want to limit their fun, but just because I don't even know all of the core rules yet, and I don't want to have to be looking up stats in random places and thinking about whether something is balanced enough.

Killer Angel
2009-12-21, 06:24 AM
I just spoke with him, to clarify. I thought he took away all of my "play-toys" when he didn't. I overreacted and blew my top. Forgive me.

There's nothing to forgive. Luckily, I'm not your DM.
At least, you've done the right thing speaking with him BEFORE doing all the senseless things you were planning.

Hazkali
2009-12-21, 06:36 AM
An interesting character does not have to be anything special mechanically. The most important things about a character aren't even mechanical in nature anyway. It is the quirks, foibles, manners and habits that make a character good in any game that has a roleplaying element.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-21, 06:45 AM
Actually, I find some of the best roleplaying opportunities actually come from flaws.

My group allowed some of the better homebrewed flaws on d&d wiki, mainly due to not realizing they were homebrewed at first. I took binge drinker. Now sure, I could have optimized it to make the flaw merely a mechanical tradeoff, but let's face it, drunken mage = awesome. Embrace your weaknesses.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-21, 06:59 AM
My favourite character I ever roleplayed was a human wizard. That's it. No racial trickery. Not even a human subrace with an Int bonus (not that I can think of any).

My other favourite character is currently a generic vanilla Gnome Illusionist. (I like wizards.)

Lioness
2009-12-21, 07:07 AM
Actually, I find some of the best roleplaying opportunities actually come from flaws.


Yeah...one of our group took flaw: easily distracted. He now gets a -4 (or -2) to spot when females are around.

Oh won't he have fun when we eventually encounter some succubi

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-12-21, 07:15 AM
Actually, I find some of the best roleplaying opportunities actually come from flaws.

My group allowed some of the better homebrewed flaws on d&d wiki, mainly due to not realizing they were homebrewed at first. I took binge drinker. Now sure, I could have optimized it to make the flaw merely a mechanical tradeoff, but let's face it, drunken mage = awesome. Embrace your weaknesses.

Sounds like the perfect flaw for.... FISTBEARD BEARDFIST!

RebelRogue
2009-12-21, 07:22 AM
Actually, I find some of the best roleplaying opportunities actually come from flaws.

My group allowed some of the better homebrewed flaws on d&d wiki, mainly due to not realizing they were homebrewed at first. I took binge drinker. Now sure, I could have optimized it to make the flaw merely a mechanical tradeoff, but let's face it, drunken mage = awesome. Embrace your weaknesses.
I dunno, I've never used them in D&D mainly because of my bad experience from the similar Merits/Flaws system in WoD. Back then, we were always trying to squeeze in an extra "free" flaw or two like Persistent Parents, Phobia of Dodos or whatever in order to get those extra freebie points. In D&D where mechanical builds are generally more important, this is bound to get worse, as far as I can tell.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-21, 07:27 AM
Oh, it can most definitely be abused. In this particular case, there's a will save to not have a drink(each additional drink imposes a -2 penalty, and you roll again). Now, if you simply refused to ever start drinking, and had a good will save, you could make getting drunk as a result extremely improbable.

But of course, doing so isn't a ton of fun. Overcoming weaknesses is fun, and sometimes, if you don't have enough of them, or challenging enough ones, adding a few is enjoyable.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-21, 07:28 AM
I dunno, I've never used them in D&D mainly because of my bad experience from the similar Merits/Flaws system in WoD. Back then, we were always trying to squeeze in an extra "free" flaw or two like Persistent Parents, Phobia of Dodos or whatever in order to get those extra freebie points. In D&D where mechanical builds are generally more important, this is bound to get worse, as far as I can tell.

The only thing you want to avoid is taking Shaky for a melee character, or Noncombatant for a caster who never makes melee attack rolls.

Otherwise, flaws actually have mechanical drawbacks that are worth a free feat. -3 to Will saves sucks at first level. And even at sixth level if you're not a caster or a monk.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-21, 07:30 AM
I'd go so far as to say that -3 to will ALWAYS sucks.

I mean, sure, casters have great will saves, but still...you aren't generally so good that you'll only fail on a 1. So, -3 will increase your odds of failing just as much as it would for someone with that as a weak save.

I will say that flaws lead to increased specialization. Dunno if thats good or bad, but I like it.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-21, 07:34 AM
Yeah, but eventually you have permanent Mind Blank and rarely ever need to make Will saves.

RebelRogue
2009-12-21, 07:35 AM
I will say that flaws lead to increased specialization. Dunno if thats good or bad, but I like it.
In general, specialization is the way to go in 3.5.

Tyndmyr
2009-12-21, 07:39 AM
Yeah, but eventually you have permanent Mind Blank and rarely ever need to make Will saves.

True. It can definitely be optimized...but in general, it does offer a mechanical downside to go along with it's juicy goodness.

Much like non-combatant on a caster...it effectively rules out using touch spells. Sure, you can make a caster just fine without using them, but it does place limits there.

MichielHagen
2009-12-21, 07:40 AM
My DM is starting a new campaign @ Lv1. He also said no homebrew at all. So that means no amusing stuff...

That is not fair. I am no DM, but i can imagine Homebrew gives a DM headaches. He has to read it to know what it does, make sure it's not broken or too powerful.
Our DM does not allow homebrew and that is not something anyone holds against him. More likely people will hold it against him if he would.


He also said Base Races, @ 0LA, however, Kobold is "technically" a base race, considering its in MMI, so I now have a sickeningly twisted sense of revenge for the BS i've endured!!!

Ok....why don't you put the effort in finding a new DM if this is true?

Optimystik
2009-12-21, 07:59 AM
Man, seriously, I love your threads. I come here for over-the-top great humor, and it always delivers.

Yeah, but I ran out of popcorn in the lvl 100 battle thread. :smallfrown:


Yeah...one of our group took flaw: easily distracted. He now gets a -4 (or -2) to spot when females are around.

Oh won't he have fun when we eventually encounter some succubi

Is... is he the scout?

"Nothing suspicious up here guys. But don't come join me for an hour or two, okay?"

Lioness
2009-12-21, 08:01 AM
Is... is he the scout?

"Nothing suspicious up here guys. But don't come join me for an hour or two, okay?"

Haha. Nope. But he does have one of the best spots of the group.

Kris Strife
2009-12-21, 08:08 AM
Man, they should totally make "pair of Dwarf Twins" into a race. No, it's not dwarf. It means that your character is a pair of dwarf twins, who must be adjacent to each other at all times (or even standing on each other's shoulders!) to use any of your abilities.

Best. Race. Ever.

And they should only speak in Dwarven, no matter what.

And if you really want to annoy your DM (or anyone else) go by a giant 4' by 100' roll of the big bubble bubble wrap. Sit there and pop each bubble one by one... I drove my manager insane by doing this the other night at work.

Optimystik
2009-12-21, 08:14 AM
Much like non-combatant on a caster...it effectively rules out using touch spells. Sure, you can make a caster just fine without using them, but it does place limits there.

It does? Most touch ACs are pretty easy to hit.


Man, they should totally make "pair of Dwarf Twins" into a race. No, it's not dwarf. It means that your character is a pair of dwarf twins, who must be adjacent to each other at all times (or even standing on each other's shoulders!) to use any of your abilities.

Best. Race. Ever.

"Me brudder!"
"Oo oi!"

(cookie for whoever gets the reference)

Douglas
2009-12-21, 09:12 AM
"Me brudder!"
"Oo oi!"

(cookie for whoever gets the reference)
Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder from Salvatore's Cleric Quintet. One of the author's better inventions.

suryasm
2009-12-21, 09:12 AM
"Me brudder!"
"Oo oi!"

(cookie for whoever gets the reference)

I dunno... One Piece?

Anyway, AG, you seem to be a power-gamer, so I dunno how applicable my advice is, but why don't you take this opportunity to play something unusual and fun, instead of optimized?
Like say, a halfling fighter. (This may be common. I don't know.)
Or a half-orc monk.
Or a fighter who uses something unusual as his specialized weapon.
Even sticking to core, the possibilities are legion..... hey, how about using a tower shield, so you can roleplay a Roman legionary displaced through time and space to Greyhawk? (I admit I stole that idea from John Ringo)
Or... oh this is evil.... if you have access to complete arcane, go play a Sorcerer/Wild Mage.

Beelzebub1111
2009-12-21, 09:14 AM
It does? Most touch ACs are pretty easy to hit.
"Me brudder!"
"Oo oi!"

(cookie for whoever gets the reference)

Mas e Menos from teen titans?

dsmiles
2009-12-21, 09:17 AM
Wow...

Classic Bouldershoulder Brothers and nobody gets it...am I getting old?:smalltongue:

mikej
2009-12-21, 09:20 AM
Yeah, but I ran out of popcorn in the lvl 100 battle thread. :smallfrown:

lolwut?

*runs off to read thread... *

{later} lol

OP, seriously you need to work out stuff with your DM and I'd imagine the entire group. I've been in worse situations and I just let it be.

Kris Strife
2009-12-21, 09:36 AM
Mas e Menos from teen titans?

No, I think that was the joke with their powers only working when they touch... (and why I said they should only speak Dwarven)

Also, it should be Mas Y Menos, unless DC failed spanish class.

Yuki Akuma
2009-12-21, 09:40 AM
Mas and Menos don't have to touch to use their powers, anyway. They can channel the connection through rope.

Optimystik
2009-12-21, 10:02 AM
Ivan and Pikel Bouldershoulder from Salvatore's Cleric Quintet. One of the author's better inventions.

That's the one, doug. No cookies for the rest of you! (except dsmiles.) :smallwink:

(and yes, they did stand on each other's shoulders at more than one point.)

Pikel marked the moment that 2ed was dead for me - letting Dwarves be druids.

...What were we talking about again?

Dausuul
2009-12-21, 10:06 AM
Wow. The OP would hate playing in my games. Not only do I not allow homebrew stuff unless I brewed it myself, I disallow a big chunk of published material too, sometimes for balance reasons, more often for flavor.

I've been unusually generous in my current campaign (mostly because it was our first 4E game and I wanted to let people try out different things), but you better believe I'm taking an axe to the list of classes and races for the next one I run. Players who don't like it are free to choose one of the following options:

a) Suck it up.
b) Don't play.
c) Give me a really good reason to make an exception for you.
d) Run your own dang campaign.

Note the absence of a "pull a lot of passive-aggressive baloney in an effort to 'punish' me" option on the above list.