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drengnikrafe
2009-12-21, 05:09 AM
I have a problem that is fairly simple, yet not easily fixed (as far as I know).

You see, this story begins in my style of DMing, which is extremely loose. So loose that I can't even keep a decent storyline for very long. I refuse to plan out copious amounts of details because I know my PCs are too inherently chaotic to stick to my plans (and I detest railroading), but I find that, more often then not, my campaigns last 1-2 sessions before collapsing in a pile of "Well, we haven't really done anything yet, so we'll just roll up new characters." To draw attention to the major point again, my PCs are incredibly chaotic in nature, and will do just about anything for a decent laugh. It all started out okay, but the lack of anything worth writing home about (so to speak) is really starting to grate on me.

That being said, do you know any psychological tricks or new mindsets, or really anything else I could use to get a good story going, and keep it going, while keeping my players on track (etc)?

Myrmex
2009-12-21, 05:14 AM
Give them a dungeon to populate with things, such as the characters they roll up. Send monsters to attack them. Advertise phat loots they could acquire for their dungeon. They go adventure for them, then have to race back to base because there's someone in their base hittin' their doods.

dsmiles
2009-12-21, 05:34 AM
It's kind of like railroading, but not really, so:

Tie every "side quest" in with the main quest. As in, they have to complete a bunch of what look like "side quests," but each is really part of the "main quest."

I've used this on many occasions, and for chaotic players it works out rather well for actually completing a "main quest."

bosssmiley
2009-12-21, 05:52 AM
Why treat your gaming style as a flaw, when you can play to it as a strength. Just make the constant shifts in focus part of the game. Have you never heard of picaresque (http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/10/picaro-and-story-of-d.html)?

Nero24200
2009-12-21, 05:59 AM
There are a few things you can try to keep them interested.

Give them something to protect. If they find themselves attached to a stronghold or a particular NPC, put that place/person in danger. If the NPC is a noble, for instance, have threatining letters sent to them, which could push the PC's to find the person sending them. If it's a building like a fortress, have it come under attack regularly, putting in a possible quest that might ease the attacks (such as attempting to kill the leader of a band of orcs who attacks the place regularly).

Ask them to write goals for the their character. Just that, when they make new characters, ask them what their character wants. Then just put in quests that grant such things. If it's gold, put in a quest to stop bandits from high-paying merchants, or throw in rumors of a long lost treasure (which if spaced out well enough could last for an entire campaign). If it's glory, arrange a large, world-wide tournament being held someplace, but have it placed on the other end of the map, making just getting there a quest in itself. If you have a party of 4 players, you're going to get at least one or two goals you can use. At best, they can be used to keep the players interested whilst you think of other plans.

Lenghy quests. I'm talking quests that'll take up 2-3 games (maybe even longer). If the PC's become enthusastic about a quest, they'll likely want to complete it, even if it lasts for a while. A quest lasting for about 10+ games could keep the PC's going for full campaigns (though you may need to break it up occasionally with smaller side quests).

Ask the PC's how they feel. It sounds like you're going completely free-form whilst DMing. Not nessicerily a bad thing, but it does mean you're gonna struggle to plan games. It's not bad rail-roading just a little, as long as it's not excessive, inconsistant or pushes the PC's to do something they wouldn't normally do it can be a handy tool. The trick is to make the PC's think doing XY or Z is their idea. Any DM can make a "slay the dragon" quest. Only a good DM can play such a quest and make the PC's want to go and fight this dragon.

So the most importent advice I can give is that last point. It sounds like you don't like railroading at all, but saddly it's something you might need to try if you want your players to keep on track. [/badpun]

PhoenixRivers
2009-12-21, 06:10 AM
The most reliable motivator for anyone is revenge. Give them someone they love to hate, and let him get away. After that, you need only dangle a bit about that person here and there, and your party will go after them.

Have the BBEG (or whoever they're lovin' to hate) be a jerk, and get away with it. After that, see if your players don't follow him to the very gates of hell, burn them down, and smack him around.

Temet Nosce
2009-12-21, 10:04 AM
I have a problem that is fairly simple, yet not easily fixed (as far as I know).

You see, this story begins in my style of DMing, which is extremely loose. So loose that I can't even keep a decent storyline for very long. I refuse to plan out copious amounts of details because I know my PCs are too inherently chaotic to stick to my plans (and I detest railroading), but I find that, more often then not, my campaigns last 1-2 sessions before collapsing in a pile of "Well, we haven't really done anything yet, so we'll just roll up new characters." To draw attention to the major point again, my PCs are incredibly chaotic in nature, and will do just about anything for a decent laugh. It all started out okay, but the lack of anything worth writing home about (so to speak) is really starting to grate on me.

That being said, do you know any psychological tricks or new mindsets, or really anything else I could use to get a good story going, and keep it going, while keeping my players on track (etc)?

Well, if you're running sandbox then the PCs should basically be providing the storyline (although you should keep a few plots by NPCs (say 3-6) running in the background at all times, regardless of whether the PCs ever encounter them). If they're not able to do that then you should probably just release them in a dungeon, because for some PCs sandbox just doesn't work.

valadil
2009-12-21, 10:35 AM
I think you should play out the repercussions of their chaotic humor. Get a storyline going based on that. I find that players are more likely to buy into a storyline that they created than a generic hook. Even if they don't take it too seriously, see how far you can go on their joke.

Guinea Anubis
2009-12-21, 10:50 AM
What kind of things do they do for a laugh? Could that something have repercussions they have to deal with?

Tequila Sunrise
2009-12-21, 11:10 AM
If you make them stick to their characters, maybe they'd put more energy into looking for adventures. Alternatively, just tell them "Look, wackiness is great but if I wanted to run two session games I'd just run one-shot adventures. So after you have your laughs, look for a new adventure to laugh about. With the same characters."

PS: Why do they keep rerolling anyway? Do they really like 1st level that much? :smallconfused:

Samb
2009-12-21, 12:33 PM
You have fallen into the old Chris Carter effect. Don't use "railroading" or "chaotic nature of my players" as an excuse, they don't have any direction because you failed to provide them any.

Railroading is forcing your players down a road they didn't not want. If you and your players take the time to develop their PCs and build stories and plot points around the the players then they would gladly follow your lead since they want to see there creation's goal and needs met, and would be grateful that you listened.

They engage in random acts of silliness because they have found nothing fun or engaging in your non-existant plot. Sorry if I sound harsh but I hate DMs that blame their players. The players argeed to follow your lead, and you are supposed to lead. If you don't take it serious by making a plot in the first place, do you expect them to?

Here's what you need to do:
1) stop blaming others. You're the DM, you are more powerful than Ao, Io, Tiamat, and the Lady all rolled into one, get comfortable with your power.
2) Work with your players. You are to create a world that your players will enjoy while adhereing to the rules (most of the time). Pick their brains, ask them in-depth questions about their PCs and make plots based on that.
3) Have a plot and try to stick to it. This not to say that you shouldn't have contingencies (you should) but in general you should have a clue as to where it will all lead. Encourage one course of action via hints of greater rewards rather than punishments, and don't discourage "thinking outside the box" as long as it doesn't take away from the plot. This gives your players the freedom to solve challenges without feeling like you are cramping their style, while allowing you to maintain your plot.
4) It's only railroading if it all leads to somewhere the PCs don't want to go. Make them want to go.
5)Laughs and silliness are all part of the game. No need to discourage that or view it as something chaotic. Your players just need some boundaries, and you need to set them.

Yahzi
2009-12-21, 12:47 PM
The most reliable motivator for anyone is revenge. Give them someone they love to hate, and let him get away. After that, you need only dangle a bit about that person here and there, and your party will go after them.

Have the BBEG (or whoever they're lovin' to hate) be a jerk, and get away with it. After that, see if your players don't follow him to the very gates of hell, burn them down, and smack him around.
Supremely good advice. Have a high-level show up, personally insult them, push ahead in line, and kick their puppy. They will spend an entire campaign gaining the power to pay him back.

That's why the BBEG is so common a theme: because it's easy and it works! You just gotta make it personal.

Samb
2009-12-21, 01:03 PM
Supremely good advice. Have a high-level show up, personally insult them, push ahead in line, and kick their puppy. They will spend an entire campaign gaining the power to pay him back.

That's why the BBEG is so common a theme: because it's easy and it works! You just gotta make it personal.

The reason I can't endorse this is because the players have to give a damn in the first place. If they didn't care about the personal life of their PC the begin with, what chance would you have of them caring about anyone connected to them? Almost none.

DM: "your beloved has been killed by the BBEG"
player: "umm who's that again?"
DM: "The girl you were supposed to marry...."
player: "That doesn't sound like me at all."
DM: "Well I'm reminding you right now"
player: "so should I cry or something?"
DM: "Umm if that is your PC's personality"
player: "my PC has a personality!?"
DM: "how about you vow revenge?"
player: "Umm Okay! Right after I get that gold from this dragon and whatever then we'll go avenge whatshername when we have time.
DM: "............."

DabblerWizard
2009-12-21, 02:24 PM
... They don't have any direction because you failed to provide them any.

... Take the time to develop their PCs and build stories and plot points around the the players then they would gladly follow your lead...

They engage in random acts of silliness because they have found nothing fun or engaging in your non-existant plot. Sorry if I sound harsh but I hate DMs that blame their players. The players argeed to follow your lead, and you are supposed to lead. If you don't take it serious by making a plot in the first place, do you expect them to?

Here's what you need to do:
2) Pick their brains, ask them in-depth questions about their PCs and make plots based on that.

3) Have a plot and try to stick to it. This not to say that you shouldn't have contingencies (you should) but in general you should have a clue as to where it will all lead... don't discourage "thinking outside the box" as long as it doesn't take away from the plot. This gives your players the freedom to solve challenges without feeling like you are cramping their style, while allowing you to maintain your plot.

4) Make them want to go.

5)Laughs and silliness are all part of the game. No need to discourage that or view it as something chaotic. Your players just need some boundaries, and you need to set them.

Samb definitely makes some good points. You can see a truncated version in the spoiler.

Player reactions

Before I give input concerning the OP, I want to comment on Samb's suggestion that it's entirely the DM's fault that a game doesn't go well.

It makes sense to say that boring, non-engaging, cliche-centric stories won't entertain players. That's an entirely reasonable statement.

How players react, on the other hand, can vary.

(1) Some players will try to quietly put up with a bad story. They might do this because they're loyal to the DM, because this is their only venue for tabletop gaming, or because they're prone to not verbalizing their concerns... I'm sure other good reasons exist as well.

(2) Other players will mention their displeasure, maybe even giving suggestions, or ultimately disengaging themselves from the group. They won't be bothersome however. This is the best option, as far as addressing problems.

(3) Another group of players, on the other extreme, react negatively to their displeasure. They might throw tantrums or complain loudly without giving any justification or explanation about what's bothering them. These are overt behaviors. Others, may act more subtly. They ignore the only plot hook in front of them, and then whine about not having anything to do. They may try to sabotage obviously important NPCs.

In all the above examples, generally friendly players end up with more or less appropriate reactions to poor DMing.

(4) It's also possible to have inherently antagonistic players. These players react badly regardless of a DM's actions. They sit at a gaming table and ruin other people's fun, because they want to. They're not concerned with having a positive group experience, they just want to "win" the game for themselves.They might exhibit excessively unbalanced power gaming (in order to be the best no matter what), intentionally blunted or counter-productive interaction with story elements or other players, etc.

Furthermore, even if a DM is a chronically boring story teller, every player decides how they want to react to that situation. No one has the right to be a bastard just because they're annoyed, or not getting the right amount of jollies.

I'm don't know whether the OP is experiencing (3) or (4), but I just wanted to point out that attributing blame to one half of the group alone, whether all towards the players, or all towards the DM, isn't justified.

There's no d&d rule that says that players have to put up with bad DMing. The best thing to do, is either try to reason with the DM, give suggestions, ideas; let someone else DM; or disengage from the group.

Common sense, and common decency would suggest that kindness and patience are worthwhile behaviors in any group setting.

Suggestions

Now, onto proactive feedback. These are all things I do to make my players more engaged in the the story (and therefore, in my campaign).

--- In the spoiler is a great website that provides your players with 100 questions they can answer as their character. This is a great resource for DMs or players that want a good base for character development.

http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/100ThingsAboutUrPCBackGround.html

I would suggest asking fewer than 100 questions though. Pick out the ones that are most important to you, and ones that would just be fun. Maybe theological dilemmas are important in your campaign, so it helps to know if one of the characters is atheistic, for instance.

Players can talk about their character's answers and learn fun and quirky things about each other. This also makes the character more real, instead of just a vague idea with stats.

--- Help your players' immersion into your story by placing their character into it. I described the various regions in my homebrew world. I told them where the elves lived, described the political tensions between races, posited that halflings were nomadic, etc.

I asked my players which region that were born in, what their early lives were like, what made them end up at this common city where the campaign began. All of these things made them more engaged.

All of this takes a lot of work and preparation. The plus though, is that my players love it. They can see that the world is flushed out. It helps make the story more real to them.

--- Ask your players what kinds of quests they would like!

Directly: Do any of these kinds of quests interest you: protecting a monarch from assassination; purging all orcs from the region; jumping between planes in search of a reclusive sage with valuable information... etc

Indirectly: Use their character backgrounds to form tense situations that can be turned into encounters. Maybe one player's character talks a lot about family. You could have their brother arrested on what appear to be false charges. Wouldn't a personally motivated player want to fix that situation?

--- Refer to fantasy books you've read. Twist a common cliche, or develop a story as widely and broadly as you can.

City A is experiencing murders by a X, Y, or Z. Soon after, they're being pummeled by a strange disease. The benevolent leader that's been helped by the players is now being kicked out for his incompetence. Can the players help him take back his city? Even if he's put back, he experiences problems with morale, and getting the economy up and running because the usurper ran all merchants out of town..... etc


These are just a few examples. Your imagination is your greatest tool. Don't be afraid to ask for suggestions from others.

Samb
2009-12-21, 03:25 PM
How players react, on the other hand, can vary.
...................

What you say is correct, some players really are unruly. But the OP has a problem and the only aspect of it that he can control is as a DM. If he still encounters the same problems from the players he can confidently say he tried everything in his (considerable) power to make things enjoyable and put the ball in the players' court. As it stands now, his lack of participation is a glaring flaw that he has direct control over.



--- In the spoiler is a great website that provides your players with 100 questions they can answer as their character. This is a great resource for DMs or players that want a good base for character development.

http://www.miniworld.com/adnd/100ThingsAboutUrPCBackGround.html

excellant site, and excellent questions.


--- Help your players' immersion into your story by placing their character into it. I described the various regions in my homebrew world. I told them where the elves lived, described the political tensions between races, posited that halflings were nomadic, etc.

I asked my players which region that were born in, what their early lives were like, what made them end up at this common city where the campaign began. All of these things made them more engaged.

All of this takes a lot of work and preparation. The plus though, is that my players love it. They can see that the world is flushed out. It helps make the story more real to them.

This also lets you as a DM gain control of how you want to shape the plot, by sublte suggestions.



These are just a few examples. Your imagination is your greatest tool. Don't be afraid to ask for suggestions from others.

Also don't be afraid to use pre-made adventures, if you don't like all the work. They have a definitive plot and goal, a few contingencies and even plot hooks to.... hook your players' interest (so no railroading). Just make sure to read the plot beforehand and revise/add to it to fit your group better.

Amphetryon
2009-12-21, 03:31 PM
It's kind of like indistinguishable from railroading, but not really, so:

Tie every "side quest" in with the main quest. As in, they have to complete a bunch of what look like "side quests," but each is really part of the "main quest."

I've used this on many occasions, and for chaotic players it works out rather well for actually completing a "main quest."FTFY. When all roads lead to Rome, you're removed the choice of which city to visit from the players.

Crow
2009-12-21, 03:39 PM
It sounds like you are confusing "railroading" with "structure" or "plot".

Thatguyoverther
2009-12-21, 03:42 PM
The most reliable motivator for anyone is revenge. Give them someone they love to hate, and let him get away. After that, you need only dangle a bit about that person here and there, and your party will go after them.

Have the BBEG (or whoever they're lovin' to hate) be a jerk, and get away with it. After that, see if your players don't follow him to the very gates of hell, burn them down, and smack him around.

I love using this one. A good way to work it in is to introduce a likable npc. Take pains to make sure that they players like and trust the character. A good sob story is also a plus, dead parents kidnapped child that sort of thing.

At some inopportune time have the character turn traitor. Make sure to do so in a particularly vile way and leave plenty of time for the traitor to explain just how gullible the characters are, that way the players are sure that it isn't mind control or something like that. Make sure to let them know that the sob story was a ruse.

Kylarra
2009-12-21, 03:45 PM
A note on revenge though, don't overdo it, else your players will simply not care about anything at all lest that put them into harm's way like every other NPC they cared about.

Xuincherguixe
2009-12-21, 03:51 PM
Try to find out what they're interested in, and tailor the game around that.

If it's general mayhem, make sure to play up the horrible impact the players have on the world.

Not to teach them a lesson, but to appeal to their clearly sadistic streak.

Mix things up a bit. Do weird things. Give the PCs bonuses when they disrupt your plans in interesting ways.

I've always been of the opinion that heroes are heroes because they are active forces.


Tell them to come up with a bit of background for their characters, and use that in your stories. The game really is about the PCs, and you should be sure to make it feel like that.




To give an example, for a completely different system, I've got a fairly elaborate plot going. At one point a ghost was to possess a cultist, and make the guy kill himself.

What I didn't count on was the players bringing the guy back to life, kind of ignoring the ghost, and sending him to the inquisition.

In an attempt to try and recover, some of his fellow cultist buddies arranged a distraction and were to sneak off with some evidence... They were supposed to catch the guy, but failed miserably.

I'll figure out something eventually, but my point is to involve your players. When they smash the only road into a mountain town in order to escape the goblins, the towns people should starve. (And possibly try to murder the PCs). If they trick the Orcs into leaving people alone because the big magic stick spirit would smite them, the Orcs might give the PCs a magical battle axe for being nice enough to warn them.

Let them join in on the evil chancellors plot to assassinate the king, and during the inevitable betrayal they can note how they totally called it, kill the guy, and leave the city with no leadership. Later in the campaign they might here stories about how the once magnificent peaceful kingdom has descended into anarchy.


Give them a world they'd care about saving, or have fun destroying. It works both ways really.

Samb
2009-12-21, 04:05 PM
A note on revenge though, don't overdo it, else your players will simply not care about anything at all lest that put them into harm's way like every other NPC they cared about.

They don't even care about their own PC, what makes you think they will care about some bit-character? This would be great stratgy if they were invested in the plot in the first place, but they clearly aren't and why this will come off as a desperate attempt to...... railroad.

A sympathetic NPC is one that helped the PCs reached their goals, that saved them, in short, a NPC that was just as invested in the PCs as the players are. The players are not invested in the PCs, hence not invested in the NPC that support them.

First step: get them to care.

A problematic player that is bitching about how his PC is being treated unfairly is a player that cares. A player that throws a tantrum because he isn't rolling well is a player that cares. These might be disruptive but it shows that the players WANT immersion, they WANT **** to happen.

The OP's problem is that his players just don't care. Apparently they have rolled up so many new PCs that they are numb, a revenge gimmick is only going to fail.

drengnikrafe
2009-12-21, 04:16 PM
It sounds like you are confusing "railroading" with "structure" or "plot".


The players are not invested in the PCs[

These are the core of my problem. The DM before me (and the only DM I've ever had) had a story, but I never felt the railroading because he did a good job of telling it. There was also virtually no immersion in character, since there was virtually no role-playing. That's my only basis of experience, and that has railroaded my mind into doing the same thing. Well, minus any legitimate story.

Also, thank you for all of your suggestions. I think I can do something with them.

Satyr
2009-12-21, 04:44 PM
One of the easiest ways to get a roup more serious is to run more seriious games. Make the game world more realistic, the NPC more realistic and the conflicts more plausible and get rid of all childish notions of simple, easy to identify black and white morals.
Just see how much the players will laugh about starving peasants.
For any decent sandbox game, you need a metaplot. If there does not happen anything your world until theplayers get involved, there will nothing happen period, until the PCs will get involved, what they don't do because nothing ever happens which could act as a motivation.

And, if you are not above cheap tricks, just start your campaign in medias res with everything around the playersseem to happen at once. Just make sure that the whole speed of of events is breathtaking, and never really tell them what exactly caused the introductory events. If you can keep up the flow, just do it, and make the whole campaign one very short, but highly refreshing, hell ride. If not, try to get the PCs involved in the action, offer a cause they could understand and create an initial bond between the PCs and the eventsd of your campaign.
And kill one of the bastards in the first session. Just to show you mean serious business. In the verya beginning of a campaign, players tend not to be that attached to their characters, so its not that much of a loss, and it creates a feelign of threat and danger from the very beginning. It is easier to care about something if you fell something is at stake. Like the very survival of the character.

dob
2009-12-21, 05:14 PM
The reason I can't endorse this is because the players have to give a damn in the first place. If they didn't care about the personal life of their PC the begin with, what chance would you have of them caring about anyone connected to them? Almost none.

DM: "your beloved has been killed by the BBEG"
player: "umm who's that again?"
DM: "The girl you were supposed to marry...."
player: "That doesn't sound like me at all."
DM: "Well I'm reminding you right now"
player: "so should I cry or something?"
DM: "Umm if that is your PC's personality"
player: "my PC has a personality!?"
DM: "how about you vow revenge?"
player: "Umm Okay! Right after I get that gold from this dragon and whatever then we'll go avenge whatshername when we have time.
DM: "............."

So how the BBEG show up right after they slay the dragon, kick their butts, steal the hoard, and then see how motivated for revenge they are.

Asgardian
2009-12-21, 05:20 PM
Try making it personal for them

have their new characters come across the mangled remains of their disposed characters and be filled in on how their failure to act caused they problem the new group has to deal with

Delwugor
2009-12-21, 05:20 PM
It's only railroading if the players don't feel they have choices ... notice I didn't say they had to have choices or that the GM can't control the choices.

One method I've used is what could be called the A-Z points. As a GM I control points A and Z the players control all others. What I do for B through Y is have many side adventures and encounters and a good dose of improv to keep the player's points together and make sure that they finally get to Z.
The player's choice at B and so forth decide how far out the story goes before it gets to Z. Sometimes they are direct and they'll get there in a couple of session. Other times they are all over the place and take months to get there.

Temotei
2009-12-21, 05:20 PM
How can you be serious when prestidigitation and speak with plants are on the spell list? Things like that just make the game funny. You could make whole characters based on humorous spells! NPC time. :smallbiggrin:

dob
2009-12-21, 05:25 PM
One of the easiest ways to get a roup more serious is to run more seriious games. Make the game world more realistic, the NPC more realistic and the conflicts more plausible and get rid of all childish notions of simple, easy to identify black and white morals.

I did this for my best campaign; the characters all started in a farming hamlet, the hook was the duke's agents rolled through town conscripting young folk of fightin' age. I had intended for the party to get conscripted and then see just how far they'd go in following bad orders. Of course, not all of the party went along at first, they just made for the woods instead, whereupon the agents set fire to their parents' farms.

Man, they were pissed. :smallbiggrin: But the agents weren't necessarily bad, they were just setting a proper example for anyone that disobeyed the duke. Give your principals realistic motivations, have them react to circumstances in plausible ways, and the conflicts write themselves.

Amphetryon
2009-12-21, 05:35 PM
It's only railroading if the players don't feel they have choices ... notice I didn't say they had to have choices or that the GM can't control the choices.

One method I've used is what could be called the A-Z points. As a GM I control points A and Z the players control all others. What I do for B through Y is have many side adventures and encounters and a good dose of improv to keep the player's points together and make sure that they finally get to Z.
The player's choice at B and so forth decide how far out the story goes before it gets to Z. Sometimes they are direct and they'll get there in a couple of session. Other times they are all over the place and take months to get there.

There is no substantive difference between a false choice and no choice.

Satyr
2009-12-21, 05:40 PM
There is no substantive difference between a false choice and no choice.

On the other hand, choice without the chance of failure is just as meaningless.

Delwugor
2009-12-21, 06:14 PM
There is no substantive difference between a false choice and no choice.
In practice the players are often caught up in the current session(s) with points B-Y and their choices that go into them. And their choices do matter and make a huge difference for all other points except A and Z.

So is it railroading? Yes the GM controls point Z, and the players will reach it.
Do they have choices? Absolutely and their choices impact all sessions.
Are their choices false? Not at all, their choices always count, but they still do not control point Z.
Is this difficult to do? Yes but the key is in planned improvisation, flexibility and a good dose of subtlety.

Ra-Thoth
2009-12-21, 06:35 PM
Some pretty good advice so far. Nevertheless, I would like to point you to Dungeon Master's Guide II, Chapter 1: Running a Game.

It boils down to you knowing in what kind of Game your Players are interested in. Maybe they enjoy the funny remarks? Maybe, deep in their souls, they yearn for something more serious? Maybe not? Maybe they abhor Roleplay and Stories? Maybe they would rather not fight as much and enjoy a more plot intensive/intrigue game?
Guessing what they want is sometimes beyond one's capability. So that leaves you one option: Ask them what they would enjoy.

That's really scraping on the surface, so go ahead and check out DMGII Chapter 1.

Have fun,
Ra

DabblerWizard
2009-12-21, 09:22 PM
There is no substantive difference between a false choice and no choice.

Perception is a powerful thing. Even if the actual outcome remains the same, players will be much more receptive to a situation in where they feel in control (because they think they have a choice, or because they actually do have a choice) compared to a situation where they feel they have no control, because they correctly surmise that they don't have a choice.